Guide: Invention Salvage and You! (Version 2)
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2007-04-18 21:55 in The Market and Inventions
Quick Commentary: Looks a lot better. When I'm less tired, I'll go through it again to make sure there's a newspaper/police radio faction in each range for tech and for magic.
Right now, though, three huge errors jump out at me (all of which I bug reported, and which I'll post in a second to today's patch notes discussion thread as well): Coralax, Legacy Chain, and Luddites, three explicitly magical groups, are dropping only tech salvage. I'm assuming that this was just an editing error.
I would also make a pretty strong case that, given their role as middlemen between the Warriors and the Hellions in the illegal magical artifact trade, and given how many players farm the Frostfire mission and how big that mission is, that the Outcasts should drop both tech and magic.
Thanks for your work on this, Brad, and thanks to the Devs for reorganizing the salvage drops as well.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
Prisoners should be added to the tech only list. Although only lts and bosses drop salvage. This could be due to prisoners con a rank lower than they actually are. I would speculate that prinsoner lts and bosses would drop at minion and lt rates respectively although I haven't done any testing of this theory.
Um, what are Spetzsnaz Commandos? First time I hear of those.
[ QUOTE ]
Quick Commentary: Looks a lot better. When I'm less tired, I'll go through it again to make sure there's a newspaper/police radio faction in each range for tech and for magic.
[/ QUOTE ]
Another important thing to check for is the ability to do street sweeping of a decent number of tech and magic factions at all levels.
[ QUOTE ]
Right now, though, three huge errors jump out at me (all of which I bug reported, and which I'll post in a second to today's patch notes discussion thread as well): Coralax, Legacy Chain, and Luddites, three explicitly magical groups, are dropping only tech salvage. I'm assuming that this was just an editing error.
[/ QUOTE ]
Devouring earth should go back on the arcane list. While they aren't magical they are very much anti-technology.
[ QUOTE ]
I would also make a pretty strong case that, given their role as middlemen between the Warriors and the Hellions in the illegal magical artifact trade, and given how many players farm the Frostfire mission and how big that mission is, that the Outcasts should drop both tech and magic.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think a stronger arguement could be made for them being pure magic. Outcasts are mutants who trade in magic artifacts. The only "tech" they use is guns and simple weapons in the lower ranks.
The new list is much better in distribution but I keep thinking that drops should really be more origin based. I did a quick example of how I would imagine it would work in this thread.
[ QUOTE ]
Um, what are Spetzsnaz Commandos? First time I hear of those.
[/ QUOTE ]
Let Paragon Wiki enlighten you.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Outcasts should drop both tech and magic.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think a stronger arguement could be made for them being pure magic. Outcasts are mutants who trade in magic artifacts. The only "tech" they use is guns and simple weapons in the lower ranks.
[/ QUOTE ]
I understand your point, but if you skim the lists above, you'll see that Mutant Blood Sample, Stabilized Mutant Genome, and Mutant DNA Strand are all considered tech salvage, which would make it pretty funny if the most explicitly mutant faction in the game was one of the only ones that you couldn't get evidence of mutant superpowers from, in the same way that (prior to this patch) it was funny that the Clockwork didn't drop Clockwork parts.
I'll start in today on the level-band analysis. I can use VidiotMaps.com for the lists of what mobs are available for street sweeping, and I think I can remember the newspaper mission mobs, but I don't have data on police radio missions above the low 30s. Do you know where I can find a list of what factions are available as newspaper and as police radio missions in what level ranges?
[ QUOTE ]
in the same way that (prior to this patch) it was funny that the Clockwork didn't drop Clockwork parts.
[/ QUOTE ]
Early in beta, I was in KR and defeated a Skull, which dropped a Clockwork part salvage, and the next mob I defeated was a Clockwork, which dropped a Human blood sample. 
I agree, the distribution looks MUCH better now (Posi was right! good man). After a brief scan, it looks like there aren't any glaring imbalances on level ranges for missions/street/paper-policeband...but then, that's not an in-depth look, which I'll leave to you 
I took your information and made a spreadsheet from it to make it easier to quickly find what drops a particular piece of salavge. I'll try to keep it updated with the information you have here.
Invention Salvage Drops
[ QUOTE ]
Prisoners should be added to the tech only list. Although only lts and bosses drop salvage. This could be due to prisoners con a rank lower than they actually are. I would speculate that prinsoner lts and bosses would drop at minion and lt rates respectively although I haven't done any testing of this theory.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well technically a prisoner could be from either persuation. Are they Ex Sky Raiders or Ex-CoT?
I'm not 100% certain, and I have by no means tested this in any traditional sense, but I'm pretty sure that Circle of Thorns and Council are always available for Paper/Radio missions. I can say with certainty that Council are available as radio missions from 30 upward, but since I avoid CoT like the plague I'm less confident about them.
That makes at least one group at every level range, which is plenty for me.
CoT are everywhere.
You also have Carnies everywhere later in the game.
Nemesis. Malta.
It looks good to me. Sky raiders in the 20's heroside. Clocks and vahz before that.
CoT are just...EVERYWHERE.
if this is accurate, then that spread sheet is AWESOME!
Excellent, excellent information. Did I mention it was excellent? Thank you much for putting all of this together.
Minor editing note: in the Magic only list you note "Carnival of Souls". I think you mean Carnival of Shadows.
Main Character: Ice/Storm/Ice Controller (Justice, 1340 badges)
Overall I think the changes are great but I feel it is a little tech heavy now. I would change Legacy Chain and Luddites to magic if I were the devs. The outcasts and trolls could have been a mix group. My only fear is that in the 40s it does not leave many options for magic. I dont fight CoT or Carnies if I can help it at all.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
The new distribution works well for the auto-exemp zones:
If you go to Bloody Bay, you can choose Freaks for tech and CoT for magic.
If you go to Siren's Call, Longbow and Arachnos drop both, or you can go after Tsoo for magic or Sky Raiders for tech.
If you go to Warburg... you don't have to. While the Rogue Arachnos are presumably both tech and mage and the Malta are tech only, thus leaving a gap in magic-only foes, if you're above 40, you don't need to exemp to 40 to hunt for salvage since all 40+ salvage is from the same tier 3 pool.
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
[ QUOTE ]
I took your information and made a spreadsheet from it to make it easier to quickly find what drops a particular piece of salavge. I'll try to keep it updated with the information you have here.
Invention Salvage Drops
[/ QUOTE ]
THAT is handy! Thank you!
[ QUOTE ]
Invention Salvage Drops
[/ QUOTE ]
This is great. Does anyone have the following information?
- Exactly what levels each enemy group appears in?
- Which zones does each mob group appear in?
- How many missions feature each mob group?
A tall order, I know, but I think that's the last piece we need to see if we can easily get either tech only or magic only at each level range. The mission and zone information can probably be culled from Paragon Wiki, but they don't list mob level ranges.
But regardless, this list is way better than it was before, and we'll be fine if it goes live like this.
bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonner-
ronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenth ur-
nuk!
DE should drop both. DE that do not drop Hami Goo are wrong. Rock men that fail to drop gems are wrong. Tree men that fail to drop Thorn Tree Vines are wrong. If Bleeding Stone doesn't come from Boulders/Granites, where does it come from?
Rularuu and Lanaruu should drop both. They are too all encompassing to only drop from one group, plus it makes hunting in the Storm Palace a nicer experience. Alternately the Devs could get complicated and have Brutes and Elementals drop Tech, and Wisps and Eyeballs drop Magic. I think having them all drop both is the best way.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Wierd.. why do Legacy Chain (Mages) drop tech only?
[ QUOTE ]
Um, what are Spetzsnaz Commandos? First time I hear of those.
[/ QUOTE ]
http://cityofvillains.gameamp.com/co...ewMonster=true
Most information I have about them.
Your the man! i copied that pup onto my hard drive, and have been looking for that since this went live to see if you were updating it. That little table just makes this SO much easier.
You should post that pup in guide area!
bookmarked, and thank you! I put 2 rares on sale tonight and hope to have a lil over 6M by tomorrow afternoon from them. I'll be farming for parts tomorrow for the rest of my rare recipies (I have 4 left! plus 3 uncommon!) that need to be crafted and sold...this will help TREMENDOUSLY!!
thank you!
There are two kinds of invention salvage: tech, and magic. This distinction has NOTHING to do with which characters can use that salvage in their recipes, nor which recipes they can make. The distinction between tech invention salvage and magical invention salvage relates only to which loot table (or tables) any given NPC uses. Whether defeated NPCs drop tech invention salvage, magical invention salvage, or a mix of both, is determined entirely by their faction:
<ul type="square">[*]Magic Only: Banished Pantheon, Cabal, Cap au Diable Gremlins, Carnival of Souls, Circle of Thorns, Fir Bolg, Ghosts (Croatoa), Hellions, Lanaruu, Minions of Igneous, Psychic Clockwork, Red Caps, Rularuu, Slag Golems, Snakes, Spectral Pirates, Tsoo, Tuatha de Danaan, Wailers, Warriors.[*]Tech Only: Arachnoids, Cage Consortium Guards, Coralax, Council, Crey, Devouring Earth, Dockworkers, Family, Freakshow, Gold Brickers, Hydra, Infected, Knives of Artemis, Legacy Chain, Lost, Luddites, Malta, Mooks, Nemesis Army, Outcasts, Paragon Police Department, Prisoners, Rikti, Rogue Isles Police, Security Guards, Shivans, Skulls, Sky Raiders, Spetzsnaz Commandos, Trolls, Turrets, Vahzilok, Wyvern.[*]Mixture of Magic and Tech: Arachnos, Clockwork, Ghosts (ghost ship), Longbow, Scrapyarders, Void Hunters.[/list]Within each type of invention salvage, there are three levels of rarity: common, uncommon, and rare. Within each combination of rarity and type of invention salvage, there are three "tiers" that correspond to different level ranges, which I am calling tier 1, tier 2, and tier 3. You can see this variation in the order in which salvage is listed on the consignment house. There are 6 types of salvage in each tier, rarity, and type, and they are clustered together. So, for example, of the 18 kinds of common tech salvage, the first six are tier 1, the second six are tier 2, and the last six are tier 3. They are, in the order they're listed at Wentworth's and on the Black Market:
Tech Common:<ul type="square">[*]Tier 1: Human Blood Sample, Inanimate Carbon Rod, Computer Virus, Simple Chemical, Brass, Boresight.[*]Tier 2: Improvised Cybernetic, Inert Gas, Scientific Theory, Circuit Board, Stabilized Mutant Genome, Iron.[*]Tier 3: Kinetic Weapon, Temporal Analyzer, Ceramic Armor Plate, Hydraulic Piston, Silver, Mathematical Proof.[/list]Tech Uncommon:<ul type="square">[*]Tier 1: Mutant Blood Sample, Heavy Water, Daemon Program, Chemical Formula, Polycarbon, Scope.[*]Tier 2: Commercial Cybernetic, Corrosive Gas, Scientific Law, Data Drive, Mutant DNA Strand, Steel.[*]Tier 3: Energy Weapon, Temporal Tracer, Titanium Shard, Pneumatic Piston, Gold, Chaos Theorem.[/list]Tech Rare:<ul type="square">[*]Tier 1: Alien Blood Sample, Enriched Plutonium, Source Code, Complex Chemical Formula, Plasma Converter, Heads Up Display.[*]Tier 2: Military Cybernetic, Reactive Gas, Conspiratorial Evidence, Holographic Memory, Mutating Genome, Impervium.[*]Tier 3: Photonic Weapon, Chronal Skip, Rikti Alloy, Positronic Matrix, Platinum, Synthetic Intelligence Unit.[/list]Magic Common:<ul type="square">[*]Tier 1: Ancient Artifact, Luck Charm, Clockwork Winder, Spell Scroll, Spiritual Essence, Runebound Armor.[*]Tier 2: Masterwork Weapon, Rune, Demonic Blood Sample, Alchemical Silver, Ancient Bone, Spell Ink.[*]Tier 3: Nonmelting Ice, Fortune, Ruby, Demonic Threat Report, Regenerating Flesh, Spirit Thorn.[/list]Magic Uncommon:<ul type="square">[*]Tier 1: Unearthed Relic, Temporal Sands, Clockwork Gear, Volume of the Obsidium Liborum, Psionic Ectoplasm, Soulbound Armor.[*]Tier 2: Ensorcelled Weapon, Symbol, Blood of the Incarnate, Alchemical Gold, Carnival of Shadows Mask, Living Tattoo.[*]Tier 3: Unquenchable Flame, Destiny, Sapphire, Psionic Threat Report, Bleeding Stone, Thorn Tree Vine.[/list]Magic Rare:<ul type="square">[*]Tier 1: Lament Box, Strand of Fate, Psionicly Charged Brass, Page from the Malleus Mundi, Psionic Manifestation, Symbiotic Armor.[*]Tier 2: Deific Weapon, Empowered Sigil, Black Blood of the Earth, Enchanted Impervium, Mu Vestment, Soul Trapped Gem.[*]Tier 3: Pangean Soil, Prophesy, Diamond, Magical Conspiracy, Essence of the Furies, Hamidon Goo.[/list]You have a chance to get invention salvage whenever you defeat any NPC that cons green or above except for Underlings and Objects. This includes times when you are exemplared or malefactored down to a lower level, including times that you are auto-exemplared such as in PvP zones or when you're a member of a task force.
According to the developers the odds of getting invention salvage are: minions 8%, lieutenants and snipers 10.64%, bosses and elite bosses 25.00%, and archvillains and monsters 43.22%. Which tier of salvage is dropped is determined entirely by the level of the NPC you defeat. The tiers work like this:
<ul type="square">[*]NPC level 4-19: Tier 1 only.[*]NPC level 20-25: Mixture of Tier 1 and Tier 2.[*]NPC level 26-34: Tier 2 only.[*]NPC level 35-39: Mixture of Tier 2 and Tier 3.[*]NPC level 40-54: Tier 3 only.[/list]For example, let's say that you're looking for Demonic Blood Samples. That's a Magic, Common, Tier 2 invention salvage item. This has a chance of dropping from any level 20 to 39 NPC that cons green to you except for underlings, objects, and those that are listed as Tech Only. However, since any of the NPCs listed as both tech and magical will drop half tech and half magical, your chances of getting a Demonic Blood Sample are doubled if you defeat NPCs that are listed under Magic only. Furthermore, if you defeat enemies that are level 20-25, half of the salvage will be Tier 1, cutting your odds in half; similarly, half the salvage from enemies level 35-39 will be Tier 3. So your best odds would come from fighting level 26-34 Banished Pantheon, Cabal, Circle of Thorns, Fir Bolg, Ghosts, Red Caps, Slag Golems, Tuatha de Danaan, Tsoo, or Warriors. Or else you can go to the zone(s) where people in that range of levels are fighting those enemies and offer to buy their Demonic Blood Samples directly from them.
Invention salvage goes into its own personal inventory, the size of which goes up as you increase in level from 3 items at level 1 all the way up to 50 items at level 45 and up. For most of your career, from level 5 through 35, the limit will be 30 items. Each character also has a Personal Invention Salvage inventory that can be accessed from Pocket D, from the Vault Reserve businesses in the same zones as the consignment houses, and from any supergroup base that has the necessary access item. This is one storage vault that is accessed from all of those locations, not one in each of them, and it holds the same number of items that you can carry on your character in your regular inventory. You may also choose to use some or all of your buy/sell/store slots at the consignment house for stacks of up to 10 of any one kind of salvage.
You can sell invention salvage, like almost anything else, at the consignment house. If you dump a whole stack of one type of salvage into a slot at the consignment house and put a price on it, that price will be multiplied by the size of the stack, the consignment house fee will be determined based on that amount, and you will pay that fee immediately. People then bid on and buy each individual piece, not the whole stack at once. So, for example,if you put a stack of 10 Luck Charms up for sale at the best price and somebody bids your price or above on only 1, or for only at most 3 of them, or for any number of them up to 10, you will sell them just that many and the rest will still be for sale. Or, if you don't want to mess with the consignment house, you can just go ahead and sell salvage to any NPC vendor that buys or sells anything, such as enhancement vendors or contacts or the inspiration selling bartenders in Pocket D. All such vendors pay a fixed price per item based only on the rarity of the salvage, not the level: common 250, uncommon 1000, rare 5000. A piece of common salvage from a level 4 NPC sells for the same price as a piece of common salvage from a level 53 NPC.