[ QUOTE ]
You and your 1% or less are not the heart of this game. You are a fringe element. Mostly of the lunatic fringe.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, you are a real tool. Do you practice at being an [censored], or does it come naturally?
Awsome post, as someone who's played MUDs/MMOs forever it is completely true.
Look at WoW and the millions of PvPers through BGs/Arenas/World PvP.
People like WoW PvP because they can actually gain what they need to become more powerful through it even after the lvl cap and Blizzard pumps out new season gear all the time.
[ QUOTE ]
Pve drew people to this game.
[/ QUOTE ]
Based on personal experience, I believe it's the superhero theme, in a market starved of this type of MMO, that brought people to this game; not so much what the PvE game offers, that other titles couldn't. We kill endless amounts of mobs who stand in place waiting for the next alpha, dogpile AVs, and in general, farm our way through endless amounts of mobs, until we reach 50, with not too much variation. Nothing unique about that. Subscription cost, free issue updates, the character creator, etc. all contribute to why people took notice of this...not merely PvE.
[ QUOTE ]
Preprogrammed responses.....like building the same build for the same couple of AT's that can dish out burst damae.....bunny hopping around the map.....yeah dont see any 'preprogrammed responses" there.
[/ QUOTE ]
At the surface. The meta-game game and synergy among teams, gets deeper than that, but it's often not appreciated by onlookers who sum PvP up to be the above. Most responses you get on the forums, are by people who don't care to spend their breath trying to convince others, who've already arrived at their own conclusions.
[ QUOTE ]
Programmed behavior.....what PvP is all about.
[/ QUOTE ]
Case in point.
[ QUOTE ]
People still ask in broadcast what arena is, and whats it used for.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds like what I'd describe as an interest, and potential participant. I hear players asking in broadcast, how to craft recipes they bought on the market, or if wings themselves, add flight. Knowledge is power, are you educating those players not in the know, or using them as fodder to feed your PvP bias?
[ QUOTE ]
You and your 1% or less are not the heart of this game. You are a fringe element. Mostly of the lunatic fringe.
[/ QUOTE ]
Assuming you could verify it's indeed 1%, PvP attention is at a relative high, as we speak- it doesn't need to be the heart of the game. Your "pvpisminority" response, also echoed before (preprogrammed?), doesn't represent the current state of affairs. Love it or hate it, it's part of the game, period...and it is seeing increased attention, good, bad, or indifferent.
you actually took time out of your day to formulate a coherent response to Captain Freak?
damn son, have a cookie.
[ QUOTE ]
Awsome post, as someone who's played MUDs/MMOs forever it is completely true.
Look at WoW and the millions of PvPers through BGs/Arenas/World PvP.
People like WoW PvP because they can actually gain what they need to become more powerful through it even after the lvl cap and Blizzard pumps out new season gear all the time.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's a thought, maybe they could make pvp specific purples. Possibly earned in each zone as a side affect of rep, say every 500 points or so. 
Would be cool, they could make those purples only have PvP effects, so PvEers would have no reason to want them anyway.
[ QUOTE ]
Would be cool, they could make those purples only have PvP effects, so PvEers would have no reason to want them anyway.
[/ QUOTE ]
I like your thinking.
I don't hate PvP.
I hate immature gank-squads full of bullies.
Which is why I hate PvP in this game.
If I really wanted to get beat up by kids, I'd walk into any middle school in this country with a big "kick me" sign on my rear end.
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
So use the arena then?
Here you come with a stupid name like Fixer - brutalkillz_
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Would be cool, they could make those purples only have PvP effects, so PvEers would have no reason to want them anyway.
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I like your thinking.
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Actually this is the BEST idea i've heard for adding loot rewards to pvp without it being farmable. There really would be no reason to farm it since it gives you jack in pve.
Good idea, Grinnz. 
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
if ya wanna sit there and pve my take in it is why waste 15 bucks a month just to fight npcs just go play xbox or some [censored] and save the 15 and put it towards a 20 sack of green, pvp is a challenge and thats why pvers dont like it its too fast paced for them and there not used to being face planted, pvp ftw!!!!
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So use the arena then?
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Agreed. If that was there complaint they can control any factor they don't like there.
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if ya wanna sit there and pve my take in it is why waste 15 bucks a month just to fight npcs just go play xbox or some [censored] and save the 15 and put it towards a 20 sack of green, pvp is a challenge and thats why pvers dont like it its too fast paced for them and there not used to being face planted, pvp ftw!!!!
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totally not even true
most pvpers p.l. fotm toons to compete( might not be that way on test but live server pvp is)i know plenty of vg's and sg's that do it on mutiple server including the ones for the big ole guardian war.most i find are runners unless they have 3 people with them taking on one and even then they still using heavies.
unlike most fps games where you all have the same stuff and its down to skill more then what your playing
in this game pvp is p.l. or farm up the newest "muat have" and that is where pve and pvp differ.not every person here wants to have to go that route to pvp and what happens when they dont. its already a clear advatage when it comes to melee vs range, then throw in fotms against non fotms..
99% of the time its a loss
you guys can talk about pvp this and that..but frankly pvp here isnt even close to balance and never will be .
i just think its funny you guys actually wanna talk for over 60 pages on pvp
i got my 400 rep on a villian and a hero.i dont pvp anymore and the reason is...the newb fotms.
i could care aless if they killed pvp and left it the way it was before the arena ever came out.
pvp wasnt made for this game and its still not. grasp at the straws kids and no matter how much you beg,pleed or whine about it..you all fighting on test for a reason.
and thats for all our servers we have..you cant get enough interest to do it without.
p.s. lulz pvp
There is always going to be something better, whether pve or pvp.
Balance exists in teams...hopefully with experienced players.
Even with newer players, getting a team to offset your weaknesses helps a lot.
PvP is getting better, devs are changing some powers, moving others around.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
[ QUOTE ]
There is always going to be something better, whether pve or pvp.
Balance exists in teams...hopefully with experienced players.
Even with newer players, getting a team to offset your weaknesses helps a lot.
PvP is getting better, devs are changing some powers, moving others around.
[/ QUOTE ]
Especially with proliferation.. I can't wait to see Pain Domination.
good post
had to necro this. Man we had so much hope at one time.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
I thought it looked familiar but then when I saw Lacuna, Mags, and Ajax post I was like wtf?? How old is this thread?
Nice Necro... a lot of the new PvPers can go through and perhaps realize that a majority of the complaints on teh boards today have been argued time and again. Lot's of good posts in this thread though...gonna be a long read.
Quote:
Better to be a tragic optimist than a complete ******* moron. |
Originally Posted by Tokyo
Can we get these old threads deleted? They make you PvPers seem like tragic optimists.
|
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
Name calling is cute. |
Originally Posted by macskull
Better to be a tragic optimist than a complete ******* moron.
|
Quote:
So are small children, keep it up. Nothing's making you read the threads in this section - that you feel the need to comment on them says much more about your level of maturity than it does anything else.
|
Originally Posted by Tokyo
Name calling is cute.
|
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
Well said. |
Originally Posted by _AJAX_
[ QUOTE ]
PVP isn't optional for COX's long term survival. The PVE is stale and most people in the anti pvp crowd turn to badge hunting just to keep themselves entertained. Most of the people I talked to had servers that went through a shock when the zone bugs effectively shut down pvp on most servers from november to february. Most people stopped logging in and serveral people quit, who are only now coming back. Since COX is a game of many alts, these people turned out to be a lot of toons people had known in other venues. On one of the first four pages on this thread someone brought up that SWG had been pvp centric as it's end game and had then switched to pve for a bit. They incorrectly assumed that's what hurt that game. By contrast, in 2003, SWG had the biggest openning of any MMORPG which it lost by being eclipsed by WOW. It's numbers dropped overnight and half it's servers closed by becoming a grind game with Jedi and the CU. It numbers were harmed even worse by becoming even more PVE centric NGE. SWG had to suck up that PVP paid the bills to begin regrowing now. While approaching 9 million paying subscribers, which is more than the Nelson rating of most tv shows, WOW has servers that are labeled PVE and Roleplaying, which have pvp zones and have pvp hot options. Eve Online, MXO, Guildwars, COX, Vanguard, and every other game have the pvp components. Warhammer, Age of Conan, Gods & Heroes: Rome Rising, Star Trek Online, Marvel, DC, Firefly Online, and World of Darkness Online, are being pre built with PVP in mind and that's every major game being released from 2007-2009. PVP pays the bills. PVE does not. That's not me saying that. That's the entire video game industry saying that. They are saying that now. They are saying that through 2010 and quite possibly beyond. In fact, PVE does the opposite of pay the bills. PVE only develops a core of players that burn through 3 month of development in a weekend. Does that make them happy? Not at all, they go on to cry on whatever forum board that another 3 months of development can't be done instantly to stop their boredom. As much as the anti pvp crowd might stalk these forums and scream endlessly in the throws of obsessive compulsive disorder that they don't like pvp in this game. This game will have to have it and balance it to survive. If the developers of this game ever get silly enough to listen to the screams of the anti pvp crowd, this game will have its life support plug pulled much sooner. Right now, without the balance issues being fixed, this game is expected to only edge out a suvivable profit by the time Marvel and DC come out. Paradoxically, NCSoft is developing Marvel and I'll bet real money it's being required to be absolutely balanced from the beginning. PVP creates long time rivalries. PVP creates player driven content. PVP communities are the group that stay with a game for years in the highest numbers. You might believe in your heart pvp doesn't pay the bills. But all the industrial side market research for the past two years says that you are saying the world is flat. Here is your proof from just one major developer, watch all 7:26 minutes: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZOTRjWGxmjI [/ QUOTE ] tl dr |
Both of you.
And that pretty much sums up EXACTLY what myself and MANY others have been trying in absolute VAIN to point out to the dev's over the last couple of years! As we've slowly but surely watched the dev's drive what could have been an absolutely GROUND BREAKING achievement in MMO PvP History....straight into the dirt...slowly...but surely...running blind into oncoming traffic, not heeding the warnings of wise, too foolish, gluttonous , or otherwise self serving and pompous to believe what us "low-life's" have been telling them for years now...."save your pvp...build upon it...the pvp this game has could be revolutionary...it is but a seedling that needs to be nursed...but it could blossom one day into a great oak.."
But alas....the cries and pleas were not heard...for over 4 years they were not heard...and now...we are left with the remnants of that aftermath. This game is on it's deathbed...and it may very well be too late to bring it back to life. Pitty, it had such great promise..
...gg dev's...
Quote:
I disagree. What kills an MMO isn't PvE or PvP, it's the Next Big Game. It's hard for people to get excited by a game, when the game is now in the cheap bin at EB.|
Originally Posted by DarkMaster
And that pretty much sums up EXACTLY what myself and MANY others have been trying in absolute VAIN to point out to the dev's over the last couple of years! As we've slowly but surely watched the dev's drive what could have been an absolutely GROUND BREAKING achievement in MMO PvP History....straight into the dirt...slowly...but surely...running blind into oncoming traffic, not heeding the warnings of wise, too foolish, gluttonous , or otherwise self serving and pompous to believe what us "low-life's" have been telling them for years now...."save your pvp...build upon it...the pvp this game has could be revolutionary...it is but a seedling that needs to be nursed...but it could blossom one day into a great oak.."
|
Once a new game comes out, those who failed to get in early on the last MMO feel they can become one of the top tier players of the new, fresh game. That largely leaves the elite of the game intact but others leave for what they believe are greener pastures.
PvP will solve nothing (and I think the poor showing of PvP is caused by the imbalance of numbers between red and blue sides). The idea that PvP somehow will ever sell subscriptions is a poor one, at best.
If you asked me zones are filled with elite griefers solely there to farm purple IOs... if anything, the ability to farm for cash in PvP zones has helped discourage many, many people from starting. It has for me, and believe me, I've tried to PvP over and over. Honestly, I just want the PvP badges but know they're all but unattainable (redside).
Simply put, if you want more PvP you're gonna need more villains. It's not that hard of a concept. On Triumph there are always 4 or 5 times as many heroes as villains and I know from experience that as soon as there is any *hint* of PvP action, suddenly you see villains logging out, and logging back into their heroes. Even with TFs advertised on global channels (i.e., Triumph Watch x.x), for every redside TF that forms, you'd have 30-40 blueside ones. I've never kept count, but the difference is very, very dramatic.
As a hero, it's no problem farming pillboxes or getting PvP badges, but as a villain to even do redside TFs like Patron arcs is less ... let me say that I would be more successful asking strangers to donate a kidney.
Again, I think the lack of PvP is nearly entirely the result of an imbalance of players and as it stands, no amount of tinkering of PvP this way, then that way by the devs can really fix that.
Quote:
LOL at you.| PvP will solve nothing (and I think the poor showing of PvP is caused by the imbalance of numbers between red and blue sides). The idea that PvP somehow will ever sell subscriptions is a poor one, at best. |
If you think that pvp somehow "doesn't" sell subscriptions, then you're more foolhearty than your entire spiel up there proves. For THIS game, no, fixing or "tinkering" with the pvp system may not do much to save the game. I already stated that. This game had it's chance to make pvp a hit about 4 years ago (or even upon release) but it decided not to for whatever foolish reasons. As far as that goes, this game has been in a nose dive for the dirt for awhile now, and there's no stopping it. However, games that are built with a "good" and "solid" pvp engine behind them, DO indeed sell subscriptions and stick around for years. There are certain First Person Shooters, for example, that I have been playing for well over 8 years now, simply thanks to how good the gameplay is in them, and I don't get anything out of them. No levels. No armor. No extra guns. No ranks. No fun l00t. The only thing those FPS's have done, is keep up with the times graphics wise through updates and yet, they are still very popular games to this day.
I believe that if a game (MMO) wants to be successful, they need to take the example given to them by just about EVERY First Person Shooter out there, and that is: Have a strong PvP 'centric' system, and have a good PvE 'supportive' story. Basically, give a great amount of attention to your PvP game, and make sure that your PvE-side supports and coincides very fluently with the PvP. Not only does this make people more willing to pvp, since storylines in pve make sense and merge with it, but it also makes the pvp alot more interesting, even on the "RP" level.
In the end, PvP does indeed sell, and PvE should support it, not the other way around.
[ QUOTE ]
Since this post was dug up, I figured I'd respond.
I'm nearing my 12th month of subscription time. I both pve and pvp. If it wasn't for pvp, I would have left much much sooner - Why?
Because programmed behavior is predictable.
I've got several 50s, and pvewise, the content is hardly fresh (aside from an occasional issue). My current main has over a billion invested in her, while the rest are all below 300 million each. One of the cheapest had a Master of Statesman's Task Force badge on her second run. My main has run well over 20, and while comming close here and there, has yet to be successful facing untimely teammate deaths.
What's the point? One doesn't need the best gear to accomplish one of the most difficult tasks this game has to offer. With that said, why put the time and effort getting it if its unnecessary?
Without a PvP aspect, there would be no justification for spending so much time and effort getting the best gear possible. In regards to pvp, you want the best edge possible and thus I was able to put the effort towards building my main to my ultimate design. Countless NPCs have fallen by my hand. After hitting 50, all you can really do is repeat the same content in the same game. Why repeat it after the hundredth, two-hundredth time (etc)
Where is the reward to making yourself as strong, as fast, as improved as possible when you're simply doing what you had already been doing? PvP.
Don't get me wrong, a majority of players can enjoy a game a long time purely focusing on pve. However, to really have a thriving economy, pvp is necessary as pvp-focused players have an irreplaceable role. They put in the time and effort casual gamers simply will not do or cannot afford.
As far as the Diablo 2 references, after hitting the level cap, the only reason to play was to get better gear, almost always for pvp purposes. Otherwise it was just rolling another character or variation, but effectively the exact same gameplay.
All in all, I would have to say PvP is in-fact essential to any Large MMO. Pve only goes so far without people to team with. Eliminate PvP, and you're losing subscribers faster than you can replenish them.
[/ QUOTE ]
The sad part is, you actually think that,
Pve drew people to this game. PvP player base is soooo small, if all of you finally left.....Castle wouldnt be able to afford his second soda pop in the mornings......oh noes!!!
Preprogrammed responses.....like building the same build for the same couple of AT's that can dish out burst damae.....bunny hopping around the map.....yeah dont see any 'preprogrammed responses" there. Hell, even your posts are exactly the same.... 'lulz and lol and l2team, cry moar' the list is short and rehashed.
Programmed behavior.....what PvP is all about.
Sure, some PvPers drive the economy, but the vast majority of players in this game are of the non-pvp type. People still ask in broadcast what arena is, and whats it used for.
You and your 1% or less are not the heart of this game. You are a fringe element. Mostly of the lunatic fringe.