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Since PvP makes the world go round no one get upset If I go Postal and kill everyone IRL. Since PvP pays the bills then so too does killing everyone in the PvP Zone known as Planet Earth.
Am I joking? Am I taking a game too far by making a veiled threat on real life?
I guess we will never know.
But death pays the bills and Ive paid for 2 years and I still enjoy playing the game and not PvPing. I have 2 lvl 50's 1 Hero 1 Villain. I burnt myself out villainside from just playing the one character for 10 months. I might go back I might not all depends if I can find a group to run with regularly like I had before. Heroside I still play my 50 yes I hunt badges. I want them all because they are there. Some of them include PvP badges. The majority are not. Please PvP'r explain to me how you got your lvl 50's without PvE? You cant so you pay the bill to get together with fellow PvP'rs to get up to 50 and tweak the toon to PvP specs. Do it without any PvE at all I dare you.
You Fail!
So if I do go Postal and PvP'rs suddenly start dropping like flys remember PvP pays the bills and It might be true IRL as well.
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you are a complete idiot. nothing you said makes any logical sense. please refrain from using these forums
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So the game's population is up 7% thanks to PvE content. Like PvPers say, PWND.
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yes, because only pvpers saw pwnd, [censored]
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So the game's population is up 7% thanks to PvE content. Like PvPers say, PWND.
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Who's getting PWND dude? We all play the same game so...
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Here's an idea inspired by the OP.
**Disclaimer** I do not no if this is even possible with the coding, <<<is programming illiterate.
Is it possible to make it so that when you roll a toon, you have the option of making it for PvE/P or strictly PvP.
If you make a PvP toon then that toon is limited to PvP Zones only and Pocket D. When you roll it, the system treats it like a respec and you may pick your powers accordingly. This raises all kinds of questions about getting inf to buy enhancements/IO's and the likes but it's just a very vague idea that popped into my head, that will solve a some peoples issues and potentially not damage the game either. Since villains has no EAT this could be a reward for once you hit 50.
If you roll a character for PvE/P then you have all regular access to the game and nothing is changed for you.
Not trying to threadjack but this just came to mind.
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That idea was used very well in Guildwars. It could be done here as well. =)
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my only problem with PvP is that there is no way to do a realistic simulation of conflict.
There are no consequences involved.
In real life, if the hero falls back, people get hurt.
If the villain falls back, weeks, if not months, of preparation are ruined.
In CoH, if a hero falls back....nothing much happens. If a villain falls back....nothing much happens.
In real life, people in battle often have to get involved in battles they know or think are going to be losing (reference the 300 Spartans, Bastogne, Coral Sea...etc) because even a tactical loss there might avert a more important strategic loss.
PvP turns into a bunch of random ganking where people do not get into battles that they don't think they can win.
There is no reason to hang around if you're losing.
There is no reason to push it, because nothing all that bad will happen if you decide to run away.
It turns into a frustrating give and take that never quite goes anywhere.
Battles are meaningless and unimportant and, over all, forgetable.
There are occasional exceptions, there are always exceptions, but in general the PvP is unsatisfying.
If there were something REAL at stake, even something like Recluse's Victory NOT being reset, it would be a little better. But even that is not nearly enough to make people decide to fight it out instead of flee.
After all, who cares if an isolated zone/reality is left in the control of the enemy if it has no effect on the world at large.
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I think you could make something meaningful as an event. Create something that meets what you believe you are missing. The game simply gives you the tools. =)
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Since you have your version, I figured a little truth would be nice. After all, we are all about killing myths in this thread right? Enjoy. 
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Sure, reread the facts as presented, on this thread for everyone too see. Sadly, if you do even the devs disagree with you. Once again, the only PVE only game to not die quickly is Toontown online for Disney which is geared for preteens with the Disney adversting machine.
As far as your opinions on SWG, the CU, and the GCW update prior to the CU were for PVErs. The basis of that was the hunger among the pve base for a class called Jedi. The village unlocked a number of people being Jedi that came into conflicts with LucasArts IPH agreement, thus the NGE happened, to rebalance things. The NGE, by both SOE and the reviewing companies was a rewrite of the grind from levels 1-30 and an introduction of 10 more exciting levels to grind from 80-90. Last time I checked, grinding was PVE.
You won't believe me on that. So talk to either company and then go through the game company reviews. I'll advise anyone reading this to review this as well.
As for the poster, you can talk to Karl Rove or Ann Coulter in real life, either might have a job for you. You can start telling people the sun is purple or something. Perhaps the check is in the mail or you really are selling the Brooklyn Bridge...
Right?
I'll PvP more when they decide to try and fix their horribly broken PvP system.
Until then, PvE is fine by me.
Karate Man - 50 MA/SR Scrapper
Frostgleam - 40 Ice/Axe Tanker
Twilight Flux - 40 Kin/Dark Defender
Necrosaro - 27 Necro/Dark Mastermind
Selena Moonblade - 30 DB/WP Scrapper
"Live life to it's fullest, and die playing Zelda!"
Voyagers forever! Long live M59, Server 100!
I agree with the OP. PvP is the end game content in this game. The AI is rediculously predictable . The PvE content of this game is basically the same maps and the same enemies(all predictable) just with different texture skins and powers. One of the reasons there are always people PvEing is because you HAVE to PvE to get your toon to 50, so that you can then PvP. And the "PvP zones", they arn't really PvP zones, they are more PvPvE zones. Let them make a level 50 FFA zone with no PvE, I bet it would never be empty. And as a sick joke, they should put a 50 hour timer badge there.
there should be no badges nor any pve incentive in a pvp zone.
this way the pure pve'ers get what they want (no incentive to visit the pvp zone) and the pvper's get what they want (non-whining targets)
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I agree with the OP. PvP is the end game content in this game. The AI is rediculously predictable . The PvE content of this game is basically the same maps and the same enemies(all predictable) just with different texture skins and powers. One of the reasons there are always people PvEing is because you HAVE to PvE to get your toon to 50, so that you can then PvP. And the "PvP zones", they arn't really PvP zones, they are more PvPvE zones. Let them make a level 50 FFA zone with no PvE, I bet it would never be empty. And as a sick joke, they should put a 50 hour timer badge there.
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Absolutely.
PvP is a form of endgame content in this game and it certainly affords a fair amount of variety...but even there there is an amount of repetition and redundancy as you have your Fire/EM Blasters, your Ill/Emps, your cagers and so on...it basically comes down to whoever has the most practice, which is 100% cool!
As to the predictability aspect...I find it's a little humorous to read. Would we REALLY play a game where everything changed from one day to the next, where there was patching that altered powers every two days and where mobs gained and lost powers at a whim?
My pen and paper GM and I got into the discussion about facing the same mobs all the time in his game...he basically made the point that they were numbers dressed up with names and behaviours...Salamanders, Dragons, whatnot...this game dresses stuff up pretty well. 
I've really gotten into test pvp lately thanks to a very supportive sg. It's LOADS of fun but after an hour or two of it I start getting bored and want to roll alts, design new costumes and run missions with my other friends.
If I'd known about PvP from day 1, I might have been different but there aren't enough of my live server friends that are interested (despite my entreaties) to make it worthwhile there. 
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
uh... yeah whatever... PvP is necessary to keep some interest, many people love competition. However too many players have never seen the inside of a PvP zone, and they wouldn't enjoy it. Not everyone likes getting thrashed 5 times in a row. Most of the people i play this game with do not PvP. Or they say "when I get to lvl 50 I'll give it a try" It really isn't as big a part of the game as the poster makes it out to be.
I do love PvP though, my main is a blaster and I get creamed all the time (mainly by those damned stalkers). I enjoy sneaking around and waiting till a villain engages one of my comrades and then come behind him with AIM+BU+snipe and taking half their health with one hit, causing them to die from my buddy. Of course thats kind of mean but because my toons are almost never PvP builds I really don't have a choice. It would be nice to see people playing themes instead of cookie cutter pvp builds but PvP is great fun and I would encourage anyone to take part.
Which brings me to the last thing I need to say. I always see more villains than heroes in PvP, ALWAYS! So I need some heroes to grow a pair and get out there to help! See you RV!
PvP does pay the bills, HOWEVER pvp does no good if its not easily accessable. In this game there is no semblance of balance what so ever. Now this doesn't bother people familiar with the system, but to most it is prohibative.
Is villian vs hero pvp balanced? No.
Is defense balanced for example? No.
Can I compete with a plant/energy dominator? Probably not.
If I go into SC right now will I be two shotted by a blaster I can't even see. Probably.
PvP needs to be built from the ground up. I think guildwars currently has the best pvp system hands down. Its relatively easy to jump in and get started but also has a great deal of depth.
I have played many games from EQ1, Shadowbane, DaoC, Guildwars, WoW, Planetside ect and I really don't think the pvp system here was well desinged. Sure, there is a certain beauty to playing a game where you can move 70 mph and two shot people... but whats the point in learning this system if you, like most, have access to other games.
Edit:
One more thing to add, WoW is a perfect example of the popularity of pvp. In fact, I would say the pvp in WoW among other things is the reason the game is more successfull. I haven't played WoW in quite some time, but before BGs came out the zone pvp was quite fun. I would take early WoW pvp over CoX pvp anyday (apparently if the market speaks for itself) so would the vast majority of people.
When I first started WoW, there wasn't anything to do at 50 just like this game. The pve end game content had nothing to do with its initial success.
Also shadowbane was by far the worst pvp I ever played. I played in its beta, and upon release I was in a large beta guild. We controlled the entire server until our guild leader went nuts. For 3 months, no one else on the server could train past level 40.
I remember logging in, being bored, and sitting at a Cities ToL where people spawned into the game waiting for people to log on so I could kill them a few times before the quit for the day.
Our server had the lowest population by ALOT... Now thats an example of a horrible PvP system.
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In this game there is no semblance of balance what so ever.
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The opinions differe quite drastically in South Korea, where CoH-Asia was often viewed as a game that offered [u]the most balanced PvP, ever[u]. Despite a variety of problems (mostly concerning market problems and customer attitudes) has forced CoH-Asia to shutdown, during its peak CoH-Asia was incredibly well received by Korean gamers, and has raised quite avid fans in huge support of how Crptic has handled the PvP aspect of the game.
There are many apects which a game developer may choose to set his standards upon, and Cryptics, at least according to the fans of CoH across the Pacific, has chosen a different stance from other MMOGs in that they essentially structured this game into a form of very distinct system of "rock-paper-schissors".
Each ATs, each powersets, each combinations of primaries and secondaries, are specialized towards a certain type of performance. This enables a player to build unique characters with very specific traits which are incredibly powerful against some types of enemies, while incredibly vulnerable against others.
The very existence of certain vulnerabilities, makes it necessary for people to team up with other ATs with other powers to form a very interesting symbiotic mechanics of PvP combat. It is in this aspect which CoX differes from others.
In our experience, we've found out most, if not all, CoX PvP gamers, are always playing the "rock", and complains they cannot win against "paper". Then they go criticize the game that the "rock-paper" relationship is imbalanced for the "rock", when they can easily build a "scissor" for themselves, or bring in a "scissor" friend to team up with. Once they understand the mechanics behind how CoX PvP is designed, they are absolutely infatuated with it.
If you don't like people who move at 70mph and two-shots people to oblivion, nobody's stopping you from choosing a powerset that slows him down to 4mph, and then team up with a friend who wields a resitance-boosting power so you can effectively neutralize your enemy.
The enemy is paper, then you bring in scissors. If the enemy brings in rocks to reinforce his weakness, you bring in a paper of your own to subdue the rock. This is what CoX PvP is about. Expecting to play a certain character, that has an equal chance against every rock, scissor, paper alike, is simply dumbing down the game to the point where there is no real difference between the characters.
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Cryptics, at least according to the fans of CoH across the Pacific, has chosen a different stance from other MMOGs
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hmm really? Lay it on me.
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they essentially structured this game into a form of very distinct system of "rock-paper-schissors".
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/facepalm
Fallspark,
An interesting idea. So in your opinion what are the paper builds? And which are the scissors?
So the scissors to a ice/em tank is ?? a rad/psi defender?
stone/em tank is?? kinetic/electric defender?
ice/em blaster is ?? a mind/rad 'troller or a mind/psi dominator?
But will any of those scissor builds actually be able to defeat the paper builds? Is their damage sufficient to overcome the paper's hit point advantage?
It's an interesting idea, and I'd like to see it in practice. In my personal experience, defeating any tank is very, very hard, even with a team (kiting, running away etc. + a truck load of hit points + solid mezz defense makes it too difficult for me).
I dabble and enjoy PvP, some things are totally beyond my understanding, like how to defeat a tank who's not afk. I leave it to older, wiser, more experienced heads.
Peace
PvP does not pay the bills. PvP is a minor part of the game, of many games. If PvP pays the bills, then every MMO out there is dead as soon as Fury goes live.
Look, let's dispel your myth. If PvP is what all players want, and that is not true by any stretch of numbers you may find, then games like Exteel are what the future of gaming is. That's a sad thought. Simply put, if you stripped the PvE out of a game, you would kill it.
This is not a PvP is bad post/reply. PvP is a fine thing in moderation, but playing against a bunch of l33t speaking juveniles who think "teabagging" is the greatest thing ever turns my stomach. Nor do I think PvP is the end game for anything. Unless the game is stingy with character slots, there are always alts, and raids.
A MMO needs several things to be successful. PvP is a PART if that equation. It is not the main or the largest part of the equation though. If that was the case, most PvPers would not be here, they would be in WoW, or Fury, or Planetside, or DAoC. They would be were the PvP was polished and good. That tells me there is more to a game than PvP.
PS before you shout carebear. I have PvPed. Sullon Zek, EQ1. I lost. I won. I used my head. I hated the entire server as it made me pay more attention to my chat bar then the stunning work (for the time) that was put into the game. You see, I play games to explore new worlds, and see new things. To play with other people. If I go to the beach, i do not want to get into a fisticuff with someone wandering by. I want to admire the ocean. The same goes for the game. I don't care about you and your desire to ruin my fun. I want to admore the work that goes into creating the game. You can't do that while face planted.
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Can I compete with a plant/energy dominator? Probably not.
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Yes.
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PS before you shout carebear.
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I liked PS too, I really liked the air to air combat.
Here is a thought on calling people carebear. Back when shadowbane was released, and our zerg guild of three hundred from beta took over the server, and we tore down every city for the first 90 days, camped people for hours as they entered the game and their gear decayed until it was gone, and prevented people from training past level 40. We just called everyone carebear that complained.
PvP should be fun to play, not about carebear/hardcore. The most successfull games reflect that. People who really really want hardcore games probably wet the bed and like playing with fire if you know what i mean.
I do see your point, and I am not one to cry "carebear".
I have seen lots of games with very good ideas, and a PVP focus never get off the ground. RF Unlimited anyone? Where is Shadowbane now?
I also see the same with PvE games. Horizons, and Ryzom come to mind. PvP is not what makes WoW so popular. It is a part of what makes WoW so popular. Say what you will about WoW, the companies want a chunk of their player base. So should everyone in the game. More subscribers means more money for development.
PvP is fine. Just don't delude yourself into thinking it is "all that and a side of fries". Looking at the populations in game and reading what the forums have to say, in most games PvP zones are underpopulated. That tells me most people do not want PvP.
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Expecting to play a certain character, that has an equal chance against every rock, scissor, paper alike, is simply dumbing down the game to the point where there is no real difference between the characters.
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the problem is that such character already exist.and almost all hero side.
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A MMO needs several things to be successful. PvP is a PART if that equation. It is not the main or the largest part of the equation though. If that was the case, most PvPers would not be here, they would be in WoW, or Fury, or Planetside, or DAoC. They would be were the PvP was polished and good. That tells me there is more to a game than PvP...
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If you look at this thread from beginning to end, you'll see it is a response to people that want the game to have no PVP at all. The fact still stands that the only "PVE only" MMORPG to successfully run is Disney's Toontown Online and that's geared for pre teens and bought by parents that subscribe to the Disney advertising Machine.
Everything you said in your post was already debated in the first 30 pages. The only side your supporting here is the shreaking lunies that want pvp completely removed from this MMORPG and every other MMORPG so the can grind in peace before quiting because they don't understand why they are bored.
Every MMORPG needs player based content. PVE takes months to write and a weekend to finish. There is no way for a gaming company to keep up with the demands of a PVE only base. That's why vast majority of every PVE player bases quit in 6-8 months of joining a game. NCSoft's business model is actually built to cycle players into multiple games to account for this business trend, with the motto: "Imagine the Next Life. Build the Next Game. Create the Next Culture."
The PVE only crowd wants to kill the Goose that laid the golden egg. Your guilty of being another person not looking at what the debate really is and simply saying what you feel from an impression.
You have posed on the side that has actively opposed game balance and has actively harassed PVPers in their own forums. Your impression of PVPers in COX is a chicken and the egg thing. After being openly harassed on there own forums for since 2005, in a manner that wouldn't be tolerated on any other boards in these forums, I no longer ask questions why they are hostile in game or on the boards.
Your only crime was not paying attention to the real focus of the thread and everyone does that from time to time. Luckly this isn't an enviroment where there were real longterm consequences for that, other than a game that continues not to be balanced and continues to lose people in droves because the end game content is defective due to not being balanced.
In the end most of the hatred of PVP in this game comes from the fact that most people's toons are not going to be as useful as a few toons spec'ed in very specfic ways. That is a game design flaw.
In the end, for both heroes and villains, every toon should be viable in PVP. Since I don't like nerfs, I'd go with Villain Arena fixes exactly mimicing the ones given to heroes, adding APP selections to PPP lists, and balancing the base power indexes to making Villain toons competitive. For both sides, each AT could use about 5 more powers in each powerset that are useful for PVP if it is currently cosidered a PVE build or is useful for PVE if it is currently a PVP build.
Don't rip any one group down. It's actually possible to build everyone up.
Give players an even shot and mix up the predictable builds you see these days. The player base will never be what it would have been if this game had been balanced from the beginning, but it could be a lot better.
More game content for the RP and PVE communities wouldn't be bad either, especially if it could be more player driven content. The point of this thread from the beginning was to seek a better game for everyone and dispel the thought that any section was disposible. No community of gamers is.
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A MMO needs several things to be successful. PvP is a PART if that equation. It is not the main or the largest part of the equation though. If that was the case, most PvPers would not be here, they would be in WoW, or Fury, or Planetside, or DAoC. They would be were the PvP was polished and good. That tells me there is more to a game than PvP...
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If you look at this thread from beginning to end, you'll see it is a response to people that want the game to have no PVP at all. The fact still stands that the only "PVE only" MMORPG to successfully run is Disney's Toontown Online and that's geared for pre teens and bought by parents that subscribe to the Disney advertising Machine.
Everything you said in your post was already debated in the first 30 pages. The only side your supporting here is the shreaking lunies that want pvp completely removed from this MMORPG and every other MMORPG so the can grind in peace before quiting because they don't understand why they are bored.
Every MMORPG needs player based content. PVE takes months to write and a weekend to finish. There is no way for a gaming company to keep up with the demands of a PVE only base. That's why vast majority of every PVE player bases quit in 6-8 months of joining a game. NCSoft's business model is actually built to cycle players into multiple games to account for this business trend, with the motto: "Imagine the Next Life. Build the Next Game. Create the Next Culture."
The PVE only crowd wants to kill the Goose that laid the golden egg. Your guilty of being another person not looking at what the debate really is and simply saying what you feel from an impression.
You have posed on the side that has actively opposed game balance and has actively harassed PVPers in their own forums. Your impression of PVPers in COX is a chicken and the egg thing. After being openly harassed on there own forums for since 2005, in a manner that wouldn't be tolerated on any other boards in these forums, I no longer ask questions why they are hostile in game or on the boards.
Your only crime was not paying attention to the real focus of the thread and everyone does that from time to time. Luckly this isn't an enviroment where there were real longterm consequences for that, other than a game that continues not to be balanced and continues to lose people in droves because the end game content is defective due to not being balanced.
In the end most of the hatred of PVP in this game comes from the fact that most people's toons are not going to be as useful as a few toons spec'ed in very specfic ways. That is a game design flaw.
In the end, for both heroes and villains, every toon should be viable in PVP. Since I don't like nerfs, I'd go with Villain Arena fixes exactly mimicing the ones given to heroes, adding APP selections to PPP lists, and balancing the base power indexes to making Villain toons competitive. For both sides, each AT could use about 5 more powers in each powerset that are useful for PVP if it is currently cosidered a PVE build or is useful for PVE if it is currently a PVP build.
Don't rip any one group down. It's actually possible to build everyone up.
Give players an even shot and mix up the predictable builds you see these days. The player base will never be what it would have been if this game had been balanced from the beginning, but it could be a lot better.
More game content for the RP and PVE communities wouldn't be bad either, especially if it could be more player driven content. The point of this thread from the beginning was to seek a better game for everyone and dispel the thought that any section was disposible. No community of gamers is.
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Let me see if i can sum up my stance on PvP - and I'm a known hater:
I don't give two tin [censored] if YOU enjoy it or not. Want your little sandbox? FINE. Here it is, take it, keep it, stay in it, and stay the hell away from me. What I want is simple: to not be penalized for saying no to PvP, to not be constantly poked and prodded towards PvP, and for all PvE content to be 100% accessible without ever needing PvP or a specific team.
IE, Villain Accolades are currently a "penalty for not PvPing" situation on half of them. The constant "go talk to this PvP zone intro dude" missions and the poor hackjob of leveraging folks to farm for Salvage in PvP zones (because you either outlevel the range it's in or there is a severe dearth of Magic foes at a specific level range - see Cap Au Diable for a perfect example of the latter) are examples of the pokeprod. The RSF, occasionally the STF, and PTOD Elite Bosses for Dominators are an example of the last point.
In short, I don't care if there is or is not PvP in CoX, as long as I don't have to see it, smell it, or touch it to play everything ELSE in CoX.
On to other points:
Laylyn, you keep pointing out that there are no MMOs other than Toontown that have been PvE-only and successful...let me ask this, how many PvE-ONLY MMOs other than Toontown have there BEEN? I honestly cannot think of one AT ALL, and this is part of why I think there are problems with the "MMO must have PvP to succeed" paradigm; EQ was the granddady, and it had PvP available. Everyone else has just done what humans do: follow what's worked once.
And it's interesting to me that only one person has actually mentioned Diablo 2 so far; the game was in fact almost 100% PvE, with ZERO PvP support available from the devstaff, reward limited to an ear and whatever gold they dropped(unless the PKer was trying for corpsepopping, in which case, they're a griefer...), and the absolute ability to avoid all PvP ever(by passwording games). Given that D2 can be seen in may ways as a blueprint* for CoX, and D2 often had well over 150K people online all at once in its big time days, the "mostly PvE, unsupported PvP" model can work. I just don't know of anyone else that's put a big effort INTO it, because one thing online gaming has ALWAYS had is PvP.
It's become axiomatic..nobody makes an online game that doesn't have PvP because nobody has made an online game that doesn't have PvP. It started with BBS doorgames; I remember LORD. It had PvP from day 1. Yeah, you COULD find "non-PvP" games on those old clunkers...but they were all single-player. What I wonder is this: Why has there never been an actual PvE online FPS game with full co-op, with a campaign setting? The example that always springs to my mind is the MechWarrior games. They have a fairly beefy campaign for single-player, complete with being able to field up to two lances of AI Mechs at one time...but for online play, it's just deathmatch, deathmatch, deathmatch. Why not allow multiplayer in the SP campaign? Hell, why not DESIGN for it? Running some of those missions with non-AI lancemates could be great fun. But nobody has ever made a truly focused online PvE FPS like that, ever...and it's because of the axiom. Nobody does it because nobody HAS done it, so it's unproven. Unproven is assumed to be unprofitable...so it never GETS proven. WoW is just the last in a long line of this type of thought, given bulk and "weight" by dint of the Blizz name. If WoW wasn't Blizzard, it wouldn't be ten percent as successful as it is, PvP or not...count on it.
*Clarifying the blueprint comment: CoX is essentially Diablo 2 with costumes unhooked from gear, better graphics, and for a long time less loot. Each class/AT gets different skill trees/powersets to pick from, and once points are spent/powers are chosen, they're mostly locked into stone. D2 had the charstats in addition to the skilltrees; in CoX, this is basically handled by the devs having picked all your charpoints out ahead of time, and all of it goes into Vitality and Strength - Vitality is the HP increase, Strength is slots as a function of gear you can wear. CoX has respecs added, something Blizz added into WoW; the only reason it was never added into D2 was because the engine couldn't support it. Targeting is easier in CoX(sometimes, unless tabtargeting is wonky again today), and D2 had a harder to use interface...but in the end, CoX is a simplified, prettified D2.
In the same vein, since including PvP has been proven to work, obviously, it works.
Yes, including PvP works...I never argued that. Then again, just because something works doesn't mean it's the ONE TRUE AND ONLY WAY! that it can work. Tallow candles worked. Yet we use filament lightbulbs and electricity. Filament bulbs work, yet we're moving to flourescent bulbs.
Just because it always has worked doesn't mean it's the only way to do it.
Since PvP makes the world go round no one get upset If I go Postal and kill everyone IRL. Since PvP pays the bills then so too does killing everyone in the PvP Zone known as Planet Earth.
Am I joking? Am I taking a game too far by making a veiled threat on real life?
I guess we will never know.
But death pays the bills and Ive paid for 2 years and I still enjoy playing the game and not PvPing. I have 2 lvl 50's 1 Hero 1 Villain. I burnt myself out villainside from just playing the one character for 10 months. I might go back I might not all depends if I can find a group to run with regularly like I had before. Heroside I still play my 50 yes I hunt badges. I want them all because they are there. Some of them include PvP badges. The majority are not. Please PvP'r explain to me how you got your lvl 50's without PvE? You cant so you pay the bill to get together with fellow PvP'rs to get up to 50 and tweak the toon to PvP specs. Do it without any PvE at all I dare you.
You Fail!
So if I do go Postal and PvP'rs suddenly start dropping like flys remember PvP pays the bills and It might be true IRL as well.