Fallspark

That's why there are controllers and dominators.

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<< Ignore that Troll plz... Keep the thread constructive >>

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"Constructive", as in the massive mutual comfortation group therapy sessions for lazy losers going on this thread?

*snickers*

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I still think stalkers need the most love as far as PvP goes. If Hide is supposed to make you invisible to your enemies, then it should work against "your enemies" in PvP.

As it is, the only way to become truly invisible is to buy one of the travel power stealth enhancements which run about 10 mil each.

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It works. Hide is invisible to the "normal" eye. Only those powers gifted with inherent perception or clairvoyance can detect a simple hide.

In the instances which tier2 stealth is engaged, through the use of Hide + Stealth, only about a handful of ATs can even detect through it, all the rest of the ATs needs another person to give Clearmind or Clarity type of buffs, in which case since stacking is now impossible, would still require an inherent perception power to work.

Or, just to detect ONE stalker and protect oneself from an AS going off you need at least two people using Tactics power.

To fully be protected against stalker incursion, two kinetics wielders of additional Increased density is needed to provide full protection against a TPfoe, another power needed to provide AS interruption, another needed for stun/status protection, another needed to heal.

In the instance where a tier3 stealth, reaching the stealthcap is engaged, the opposing side can have all of the above powers and yet, still not be able to detect ONE stalker unless he just walks inside 10ft radius and asks to be killed.

You still think they need more stealth?


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Not being able to be seen is essential to the stalker playstyle, so I think it's kind of stupid for opposing players to be able to see you.

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You won't think it's so stupid once you learn how much preparation is required to protect oneself from even a single stalker.

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It makes assasin's strike worthless, as you never have the time to pull it off if they can see you.

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The players that can "see" a stalker, is usually in groups. It's SUPPOSED to be difficult to engage enemies more numerous, otherwise we wouldn't call it a "numbers advantage".

In the case where there are as many stalkers around, a concentrated hit of jump-shot attacks within a short span of time can easily knock any squishy that might be providing perception buffs. You don't even need an AS. A coordinated critical attack from two~three stalkers can kill a defender or a controller. Any team that doesn't have at least two kinetics wielders with ID, is totally helpless against TPfoe type of attacks, in which case it has now become even more effective for stalkers to use.

So is AS really worthless? Or do you just fail to see there are more things a stalker can do, than just trying to land AS playing solo?

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Don't forget wasting a Pool slot on Concealment to get Stealth.

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How about having to "waste" two slots for assault and tactics, a third slot for additional perception such as Focused Accuracy (which, isn't even available for most other ATs and powers), spending as much money in trying to obtain a +perception IO, and still not being able to detect a Hide+Stealth+Stealth IO combo any competitive stalker uses mandatorily, unless within 10ft?

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I don't think anyone in all honesty can play both sides and say they're both balanced, it's just not possible. Villains are clearly at a disadvantage.

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Okay....

The villains complain they don't have any Epic ATs.. so developers give them Epic ATs way more effective in every aspect than compared to any Kheldian build.

They complain blasters do way too much damage.. so the developers decide to cut down significant portion of blaster's unresisted damage done to player targets.

They complain villain characters don't have any room for leadership based powers, despite the fact sacrificing one's own powers and implementing leadership buffs has become almost mandatory course of action for 'squishy' hero ATs to have at least some chance in just being able to detect stalkers easily reaching stealth cap.. so the developers implement hybrid villain epic ATs that use leadership traits that are more effective than normal leadership pool powers.. which makes having just three~four Epic ATs within vicinity of one another reaching near Elude/Retsu level of defense..

They complain some hero powersets are too powerful, so they give the same powersets, most notably Storm summoning, to villain ATs...

They complain stalkers are disadvantaged, so they up the base damage factor and health, not to mention teleport-foe does not break hide-status so one stalker can tpfoe an enemy AT and immediately enter AS...

They complain multiple Clearmind or Clarity type of buffs make dominator mezzes meaningless, and too easy to spot stalkers.. so the application of these buffs have been changed to unstackable from same caster..

...

... and you are still disadvantaged?


What more could you possibly want? A free "I.W.I.N. Button"?

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Its late so let me be blunt, go [censored] yourself.

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Truth is a [Censored], ain't it?

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... appeasing people who are unhappy with the existing pre-emptive counters to cage.

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Correction: appeasing people who are too lazy to settle with the existing pre-emptive counters to cage.

...


You see, doing something "premptive", means they have to actually take high risks. It may mean much more movement. Getting more AT/powers to help with premptive measures, may mean they actually might have to change their current team composition, or the way they usually fight.

And ofcourse, they don't want to do that. They don't want to give up their "perfect" little arena team they have, and make some sacrifices in one or two areas to achieve what they want.

They want to stick to the exact same tactics, exact same powers/ATs, exact same team they have... and still want to be able to just laugh at caging attempts everytime somebody tries it.

...

Get around the excuses and read between their brain wrinkles. Really. That's exactly what's going on here.

Low health? Pop a green. Low in damage? Pop a red. Get mezzed? Pop a BF. Somebody die? Give him a wakie. Somebody waltzs around too much? Use the cheap-o web grenade you bought.....

... except, wow, caging. We can't just click a button and negate it. If they get us with it, we're out of the fight. There's no easy way around it... man, how could this be..!!!

Jesus Christ almighty, we actually have to try something different.. or we might have to gamble on some wild "premptive maneuver"... We actually have to risk something..!!

Man, this sucks..!! Give us some "direct" way to get rid of caging.. give us a inspiration that pops caging... or give us a skill which pops caging so we can just sneeze at it when one of us gets caged..!

Hey Billybob, he's caged! No sweat, BobbyJoe, here's my nifty "anti-cage power"... One click and Blliiinng!!.. there... he's caged no more..!


Excuses, excuses.

5 here, too.

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It isn't for lack of balance, it is simply that killing the opponent faster is much more useful than making them hit you less, making it so they run out of endurance in an extended fight, make their attacks recharge slower... mitigation is good, winning is better.

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Which is in the end, the key to understanding the concept of "balance" in CoX pvp. It is a very correct observation IMO, well put, easy to understand.

But then, take everything you've said, and then apply it to a team vs. team fight this time. Everything is reversed when it becomes a team vs team, instead of the typical lonewolf vs. lonewolf, witnessed in the pvp zones.

The level of protection each ATs give to one another becomes higher and higher as each of their powers create a synergy effect. This time, "killing the enemy" doesn't necessarily collide with "mitigation", since the only way to actually kill someone protected by multiple buffs and debuffs, heals, is to mitigate enough effects on them to become vulnerable enough.

In other words, as I've said, the balance of CoX pvp is entirely geared around team vs team level of fighting, not the usual individual vs individual. And in many cases, becoming a part of such a team is the only way for certain ATs or certain powers to find out what kind of real difference they can make in determining who wins and loses... and what makes this experience so surprising to many people who've never really dabbled in the "team" mentality, is that many of the powers or ATs they've branded as being "worthless" in usual lonewolf vs lonewolf fights, actually now becomes the key to achieving victory.

Tthe problem of "balance" in CoX pvp, is not that it is not unbalanced. [u]Rather, the problem is people refuse to understand the nature of how CoX PvP is balanced out, and then complain about how the developers are doing wrong without actually dabbling deep into what CoX can really offer.[u]

A lonewolf fight, is just no match for a good team-sized battle in pvp zones, at least according to my own experience. There is no one-twoshot fights. The battles are longer, tougher, intense. Every AT, every power finally finds some purpose and meaning inside the team... and when the enemies also become organized to beat your own team, half the fun comes from modifying your existing team with another set of powers to match your enemy's.


But instead of actually trying this, they just ask for developers to make every AT/power to be able to match another AT/power toe-to-toe, in every situation... and this simply isn't how CoX pvp is designed.

It is really no wonder why only some ATs/powers are considered 'useful' in the pvp zones. No wonder why other AT/powers feel neglected or 'unbalanced' - when actually, it is not.

- General suppression of inspirations

Only two applications of self-buffing inspirations useable at a time.

As it is, mutiple gulps of Luck puts an AT at ridiculously high defense for such a small cost, normally unattainable without some specific ATs that can provide high +def buffs. Coupled with multiple application of +dmg insps. such as Rage, the balance of pvp is so easily skewered in favor of ATs that are inherently high in damage.

Most ATs that rely on defense, have their values topped out around 30~35%. Multiple shots of Luck brings them easily up to Elude or PFF level of defense. When an AT with inherently high dmg such as Blasters or Stalkers, chooses to gulp down something like 6xRage plus 6xLuck, he quickly becomes overpowering to the rest of the people in the area, which the only option of countering him lies in becoming an insp. addict yourself.

While there is a significant inconvenience of having to go out every 5 minutes to stack up on insps, people who can be desribed as 'addicted' to insps. do exist. They do exist, and their existence is frustrating and disrupting to the general mechanics of CoX pvp.

These people destroy all meaning of pvp, as in player-vs-player clash of skills and wits. It just becomes a contest of who uses more inspirations to fight, and who has more patience to go in and out of zones to buy inps. everytime they run out.

Inspirations, should be a helpful side-tool to general PvP gameplay - it must not be allowed to disrupt or warp the balance of ATs in PvP by allowing them easy access to ridiculously high levels of bonuses.

I propose all inspirations, with the exception of Break Free types, to be suppressed at 50% bonus limit. No matter how many insps. you gulp down, only 50% bonus of that certain trait is allowed.

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In this game there is no semblance of balance what so ever.

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The opinions differe quite drastically in South Korea, where CoH-Asia was often viewed as a game that offered [u]the most balanced PvP, ever[u]. Despite a variety of problems (mostly concerning market problems and customer attitudes) has forced CoH-Asia to shutdown, during its peak CoH-Asia was incredibly well received by Korean gamers, and has raised quite avid fans in huge support of how Crptic has handled the PvP aspect of the game.

There are many apects which a game developer may choose to set his standards upon, and Cryptics, at least according to the fans of CoH across the Pacific, has chosen a different stance from other MMOGs in that they essentially structured this game into a form of very distinct system of "rock-paper-schissors".

Each ATs, each powersets, each combinations of primaries and secondaries, are specialized towards a certain type of performance. This enables a player to build unique characters with very specific traits which are incredibly powerful against some types of enemies, while incredibly vulnerable against others.

The very existence of certain vulnerabilities, makes it necessary for people to team up with other ATs with other powers to form a very interesting symbiotic mechanics of PvP combat. It is in this aspect which CoX differes from others.

In our experience, we've found out most, if not all, CoX PvP gamers, are always playing the "rock", and complains they cannot win against "paper". Then they go criticize the game that the "rock-paper" relationship is imbalanced for the "rock", when they can easily build a "scissor" for themselves, or bring in a "scissor" friend to team up with. Once they understand the mechanics behind how CoX PvP is designed, they are absolutely infatuated with it.


If you don't like people who move at 70mph and two-shots people to oblivion, nobody's stopping you from choosing a powerset that slows him down to 4mph, and then team up with a friend who wields a resitance-boosting power so you can effectively neutralize your enemy.

The enemy is paper, then you bring in scissors. If the enemy brings in rocks to reinforce his weakness, you bring in a paper of your own to subdue the rock. This is what CoX PvP is about. Expecting to play a certain character, that has an equal chance against every rock, scissor, paper alike, is simply dumbing down the game to the point where there is no real difference between the characters.