Cross-sever influence transfer?
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2007-03-08 09:32 in The Market and Inventions
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Theoretically, person (or persons, more likely) could assume total control of your market by flooding your market with enhancements of all stripes and types and levels all set to sell at one influence each, ensuring they're always going to be bought first.
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The only problem is, he's risking someone ELSE will come along and offer only 2 inf for what he's buying, at which time he gets nothing. By setting a sell price, he's setting the MINIMUM he's willing to take. If that minimum is 1 inf, then there's the possibility you'll get that. I suspect about half the "normal" price is the minimum you'll want to list for, if you want to speed up the sale.
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Well, the point isn't that he'd rake in the cash, it's that he'd prevent somebody else from doing this. It's a potential avenue for grief, by cutting everyone -else- out of the process by producing a constant stream of rediculously cheap enhancements.
It's a hypothetical, I'll grant you.
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Player A1 puts up a Level 12 TO for 5,000,000 inf.
Player B1 puts up the same Level 12 TO for 1,000 inf.
Player A2 (trying to transfer funds) offers to buy that level 12 TO for 5,000,000 inf.
Since player B1 wants less, and is obviously trying to move his items faster, his "for sale" is processed first, so he ends up with 5,000,000 inf (minus fees).
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LOL. Go ahead put that in place. Just don't cry about me exploiting the obvious flaw.
205723: A Different DESTINY
When Soldiers of Arachnos got their names added to the Destiny List, Longbow managed to get a copy of the list and began rounding villains up. But one name on the list shocked them...
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Still, this is a system that is too easily exploited.
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If you're using a system meant to sell things to transfer items, anything unintended results are not exploits. This isn't a xfer system, it's meant to be used to sell and buy.
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At what point do the Devs have responsibility for players getting burned by using a system for unintended purposes? No, this isn't a transfer system, but it can be used that way. If lots of people try it and get burned, they're going to be unhappy with the devs, even if the metagamers are the ones to blame.
Cryptic wants people to be happy with the game, don't they?
Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."
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What of those of us trying to transfer the ITEM itself to another one of our characters on another server? Say I get one of the "uniques" that doesn't work on my one character, but would go excellently on my character on another server. If I list it too low, someone else will more than likely snap it up...sure I get the Inf for it, but I'm out a really rare item and either have to find it all over again (which may never happen) or pay whatever exhorbitant amount someone else wants for it. If I set it too high and someone sets one for lower, it's not such a big deal I guess. Inf is easy enough for me to come by, sure I'm out the inf, but I gained the item I was wishing to obtain (while still having the mine up for sale).
Still, this is a system that is too easily exploited.
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Put out a pre buy on it first. If you get one for the character that could use it this way before putting your own up for sale, good for you! You can still put the one you have on the other server up for sale, or keep it so you have two. If not, you put the item up for sale with your alt and your other character's pre buy should pick it up. Unless, of course, it's a really popular item, in which case someone else has a prebuy open.
This raises a question. In which order are the prebuys processed? Highest first? Lowest first? Or first come, first serve?
My guess would be either high or low first. Probably low.
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
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By giving the transaction to the character with the lowest asking price, the system encourages listing items with lower prices. For the intended purpose of selling items, this is the best deal for buyers.
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I think you mean this is the best deal for the sellers. The buyers get the shaft because they can't see the asking price, and they pay exactly what they offered if it is higher than the asking price. If you got it at the asking price when you overbid, that would be a good deal for the buyers.
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Seems to be setup just like FFXI's auction houses. The usual method was to look up the going price(same thing here)of what you wanted. Then you'd start bidding below that, bidding higher and higher until you hit the cheapest seller's price. No overbidding nessecary.
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But remember, the going price tracks the what the last 10 buyers paid, not what the sellers offered. In the bizarro world of inf transfers, TOs and random pieces of salvage could be going in the millions every other sale.
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Unless the last 10 transactions on a particular item were ALL people transfering Inf, you'd still see what the roughly normal price is on it. 9 lv25 Hold TOs went for 200 Inf each, but the tenth went for 500k? Pretty easy to see what went on there. And odds are you could still bid 200 Inf, give or take, and get that TO no problem.
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What is the devs problem with people being able to easily transfer inf between toons? Why must I be forced to return to the days of poverty just to put toons on a different server, or play the other side. That is the major reason I dont play Villains or on other servers much, I hate being poor.
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I don't get it. I have never had any issues with any of my toons when it came to finances. There is really no such thing as poor in this game. Just various versions well off. And I never left SG mode except after I hit 50 to build funds for others so they didn't feel like SG mode was a burden. (If you have ever seen the numbers on how much more infamy a 50 gets over a 34, it would make your jaw drop)
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Here's an interesting question... if the lowest seller always gets the sale, who gets the purchase with competing "Looking to buy" orders? The one with the highest price?
Example: Player A and Player B both have a LTB order for a piece of rare salvage; A will pay 1 Minf, B will pay 2 Minf.
Player C puts the piece of rare salvage up with a price of 500k. Who gets to purchase the item? I'm thinking it will be B.
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Actually, that was exactly something that I was meaning to add, and I forgot all about it. It can be important. Because you CAN intercept a buy order by putting a buy order of your own up for a very low value. You don't get the 5 mil inf, but you might get an Enhancement you can sell for a suitable profit.
One way to check this potential for griefing is to make sure there is no buy order outstanding, by either making a sell order to check, or checking the buy order list, if there is one.
My guess, though, is that just as the lowest sell offer gets the sale (and the money offered, not just what he's willing to take) because he "wants to sell faster", the highest buy offer will be processed, because he "wants to buy faster". So in fact the sale will ALWAYS go from the highest buy offer to the lowest sell offer, transferring the most inf possible.
It definately seems like a "buyer beware" market instead of a "seller beware" market. But that's fairly standard with MMORPGs that want to encourage crafters.
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Well, the point isn't that he'd rake in the cash, it's that he'd prevent somebody else from doing this. It's a potential avenue for grief, by cutting everyone -else- out of the process by producing a constant stream of rediculously cheap enhancements.
It's a hypothetical, I'll grant you.
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As pointed out, by somebody somewhere, a given individual can only put 10 items up for sale. Since there are many, many different enhancements at many different levels, you'd need a lot of people to stop this. Each person putting up very specific items to make sure they're all covered. It seems like a heck of a lot of work. And even then, it takes only 1 open spot to get through. Oh look, nobody has a lvl 37 hold duration TO up, I can use that to transfer since I happen to have one. About 3 minutes time of vulnerability exists at that point.
Are you even going to be able to put an asking price of 1 inf? I thought if you sell something you have to pay a percentage fee. And I'm not sure, but I thought if you list something for sale and it doesn't sell you still pay a fee, if anyone knows for sure about that please let me know.
In either case, how can Wentworth's take a fee on a selling price of 1 inf? I think there will be a minimum listing price and it won't be 1.
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Player A1 puts up a Level 12 TO for 5,000,000 inf.
Player B1 puts up the same Level 12 TO for 1,000 inf.
Player A2 (trying to transfer funds) offers to buy that level 12 TO for 5,000,000 inf.
Since player B1 wants less, and is obviously trying to move his items faster, his "for sale" is processed first, so he ends up with 5,000,000 inf (minus fees).
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This has been discussed on the Victory Forum, but there are safeguards any player can take to make sure they don't get swindled by jerkweeds trying to make a quick buck.
1) Don't try to transfer too much at once.
2) Use an enhancement or item that is not found at a store (i.e. don't use anything divisible by 5). There are currently over 9000 posibilities to use.
3) Check the store to make sure the enhancement you're trying to swap is NOT offered as an auction currently. I assume there will be tools to do so.
4) List your enhancement and immediately swap characters.
5) Before buying your enhancement, make sure someone hasn't listed a similar enhancement. If there's another listing there, simply cancel your original offering and try again another time.
Common sense will trump scofflaws.
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My Level 4 SO Enhancements will be PERFECT for this! 
Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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Are you even going to be able to put an asking price of 1 inf? I thought if you sell something you have to pay a percentage fee. And I'm not sure, but I thought if you list something for sale and it doesn't sell you still pay a fee, if anyone knows for sure about that please let me know.
In either case, how can Wentworth's take a fee on a selling price of 1 inf? I think there will be a minimum listing price and it won't be 1.
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Since the "listing fee" is 10%, one would assume the minimum asking price is 10 inf. And yes, the fee is not refunded if your item does not sell.
Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."
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since my original post violated forum rules, and was removed, I will post again, in a nicer way.
You sir, are a fool.
This was one of the dumbest ideas Cryptic or NCSoft has ever come up with.
I hope it backfires upon you and I also hope you sleep well at night knowing you screwed the playerbase.
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Wow. Way to post "nicer." Especially when utilizing the phrases 'dumbest idea...ever,' 'hope you sleep well at night,' and 'screwed the playerbase,' please don't speak for me. EVER.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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Here's an interesting question... if the lowest seller always gets the sale, who gets the purchase with competing "Looking to buy" orders? The one with the highest price?
Example: Player A and Player B both have a LTB order for a piece of rare salvage; A will pay 1 Minf, B will pay 2 Minf.
Player C puts the piece of rare salvage up with a price of 500k. Who gets to purchase the item? I'm thinking it will be B.
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I think your right. It looks like the devs logic is to favor the seller not the buyer with this system. And having it select the highest of the buy offers would make sense.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
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Theoretically, person (or persons, more likely) could assume total control of your market by flooding your market with enhancements of all stripes and types and levels all set to sell at one influence each, ensuring they're always going to be bought first.
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The only problem is, he's risking someone ELSE will come along and offer only 2 inf for what he's buying, at which time he gets nothing. By setting a sell price, he's setting the MINIMUM he's willing to take. If that minimum is 1 inf, then there's the possibility you'll get that. I suspect about half the "normal" price is the minimum you'll want to list for, if you want to speed up the sale.
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Well, the point isn't that he'd rake in the cash, it's that he'd prevent somebody else from doing this. It's a potential avenue for grief, by cutting everyone -else- out of the process by producing a constant stream of rediculously cheap enhancements.
It's a hypothetical, I'll grant you.
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But HOW does he do this? How does he produce this "constant stream of ridiculously cheap Enhancements"? Does he go to the store and buy them? He'll run out of inf if he sells them for less than they're worth. Does he earn them? That's a finite number, and eventually he'll run out. Does he make them? Where does all the salvage come from?
I'm guessing that most of the sales are going to be IOs and HOs. Maybe some SOs. DOs maybe, it depends on whether you want the money now or want to wait, and TOs, you probably won't see them at all. SOs are easily enough picked up at the stores, so most people are going to want to pay less than that, so at most you will see those picked up from MOBs resold at auction. No one will be buying SOs and reselling them, obviously. HOs will be hard enough to get that they will be their own economy.
So the "big ticket items" will be IOs. Even if you can produce those fairly cheap with easy to find Salvage, you still need a Recipe to create them. And those Recipes are going to be like HOs, they will be hard to find and valuable. So likely you won't be earning a bunch of them and churning them out 10 at a time. The Recipes that are commonly available, at the Libraries, anyone can build, and they're free (if you have the Salvage) so why in the world would anyone pay for them?
That leaves the rare dropped Recipes, which you will most likely have to BUY, from the auction house, and assemble. Then you will resell them. If you ask too little for the IOs, and "try to sell them on the cheap", you'll run out of money for Recipes. So again, you can't produce a "constant stream".
The only thing you could potentially "give away" for practically nothing is the Salvage, which I'm guessing will turn out to be the majority of the auction trade. But if the trade volume is that high, then who cares if someone undercuts you for a few dozen items? Again, like with SOs, eventually he will run out, and then you'll be able to sell your orders at YOUR price.
And remember also that there is no levelling curve in this game. You don't have to grind for six months and turn out thousands of useless junk items just to get to the level where you can start making a profit. You can sell anything, right now, and so can anyone ELSE in the game. So if you don't offer a reasonable price, you will be unable to compete. You can't sink a bunch of money on "I'm just levelling" or gouge the market because you have a monopoly. (Well, you can have a monopoly, but because you have something unique, not because you spent some time grinding)
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since my original post violated forum rules, and was removed, I will post again, in a nicer way.
You sir, are a fool.
This was one of the dumbest ideas Cryptic or NCSoft has ever come up with.
I hope it backfires upon you and I also hope you sleep well at night knowing you screwed the playerbase.
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Wow. Way to post "nicer." Especially when utilizing the phrases 'dumbest idea...ever,' 'hope you sleep well at night,' and 'screwed the playerbase,' please don't speak for me. EVER.
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IMO the original that was based on was ban worthy and I certainly wouldn't have allowed the re-write even to stay up.
So we know at least that the MODS are much nicer people than me.
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As pointed out, by somebody somewhere, a given individual can only put 10 items up for sale. Since there are many, many different enhancements at many different levels, you'd need a lot of people to stop this. Each person putting up very specific items to make sure they're all covered. It seems like a heck of a lot of work. And even then, it takes only 1 open spot to get through. Oh look, nobody has a lvl 37 hold duration TO up, I can use that to transfer since I happen to have one. About 3 minutes time of vulnerability exists at that point.
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Hm. I didn't interpret what he said this way. Oh well, if I misunderstood, sorry about that. 
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since my original post violated forum rules, and was removed, I will post again, in a nicer way.
You sir, are a fool.
This was one of the dumbest ideas Cryptic or NCSoft has ever come up with.
I hope it backfires upon you and I also hope you sleep well at night knowing you screwed the playerbase.
0.02c
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Wow. Way to post "nicer." Especially when utilizing the phrases 'dumbest idea...ever,' 'hope you sleep well at night,' and 'screwed the playerbase,' please don't speak for me. EVER.
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IMO the original that was based on was ban worthy and I certainly wouldn't have allowed the re-write even to stay up.
So we know at least that the MODS are much nicer people than me.
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I didnt read the original so cant comment on that, the rewrite however is perfectly acceptable and is a valid opinion. At least we know the Mods are not anal about only having Ra-Ra sqaud posts and allow the exchange of ideas and opinions, perhaps you would be more at home on the SOE boards, you will find them more to your liking.
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since my original post violated forum rules, and was removed, I will post again, in a nicer way.
You sir, are a fool.
This was one of the dumbest ideas Cryptic or NCSoft has ever come up with.
I hope it backfires upon you and I also hope you sleep well at night knowing you screwed the playerbase.
0.02c
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Wow. Way to post "nicer." Especially when utilizing the phrases 'dumbest idea...ever,' 'hope you sleep well at night,' and 'screwed the playerbase,' please don't speak for me. EVER.
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IMO the original that was based on was ban worthy and I certainly wouldn't have allowed the re-write even to stay up.
So we know at least that the MODS are much nicer people than me.
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I didnt read the original so cant comment on that, the rewrite however is perfectly acceptable and is a valid opinion. At least we know the Mods are not anal about only having Ra-Ra sqaud posts and allow the exchange of ideas and opinions, perhaps you would be more at home on the SOE boards, you will find them more to your liking.
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Yes lack of frothing vitrol = ra ra. Here have a clue on me.
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Yes lack of frothing vitrol = ra ra. Here have a clue on me.
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Polite people can't be anything but ravening fanboi's. Just ask lots of posters.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
Well.
A whole SG of griefers can field a LOT of influence for buying Enhancements, if they think it's funny enough to futz up the market. If it's funny, a grief SG can do just about anything they put their minds to.
First hand experience, that. 
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So basically all I have to do is put up every TO I get at the AH for 1 inf and hope someone uses the same one for a character trade and I get instant millions?
Anyone else see a problem here or am I misunderstanding this?
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Actually, I'm not clear on whether or not, if you set it at 1 inf and I'm willing to pay 5 mil, if you get just the 1 you asked for or the 5 mil I offered.
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Please read Positrons post again.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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since my original post violated forum rules, and was removed, I will post again, in a nicer way.
You sir, are a fool.
This was one of the dumbest ideas Cryptic or NCSoft has ever come up with.
I hope it backfires upon you and I also hope you sleep well at night knowing you screwed the playerbase.
0.02c
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Wow. Way to post "nicer." Especially when utilizing the phrases 'dumbest idea...ever,' 'hope you sleep well at night,' and 'screwed the playerbase,' please don't speak for me. EVER.
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IMO the original that was based on was ban worthy and I certainly wouldn't have allowed the re-write even to stay up.
So we know at least that the MODS are much nicer people than me.
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I didnt read the original so cant comment on that, the rewrite however is perfectly acceptable and is a valid opinion. At least we know the Mods are not anal about only having Ra-Ra sqaud posts and allow the exchange of ideas and opinions, perhaps you would be more at home on the SOE boards, you will find them more to your liking.
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I fail to see how flat out insulting Posi can be considered an idea exchange or a valid opinion.
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since my original post violated forum rules, and was removed, I will post again, in a nicer way.
You sir, are a fool.
This was one of the dumbest ideas Cryptic or NCSoft has ever come up with.
I hope it backfires upon you and I also hope you sleep well at night knowing you screwed the playerbase.
0.02c
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Wow. Way to post "nicer." Especially when utilizing the phrases 'dumbest idea...ever,' 'hope you sleep well at night,' and 'screwed the playerbase,' please don't speak for me. EVER.
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IMO the original that was based on was ban worthy and I certainly wouldn't have allowed the re-write even to stay up.
So we know at least that the MODS are much nicer people than me.
[/ QUOTE ]
I didnt read the original so cant comment on that, the rewrite however is perfectly acceptable and is a valid opinion. At least we know the Mods are not anal about only having Ra-Ra sqaud posts and allow the exchange of ideas and opinions, perhaps you would be more at home on the SOE boards, you will find them more to your liking.
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Yes lack of frothing vitrol = ra ra. Here have a clue on me.
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you [ QUOTE ]
certainly wouldn't have allowed the re-write even to stay up
[/ QUOTE ] even though the rewrite was perfectly acceptable, I never once accused you of being Ra-Ra I merely suggested you may be more comfortable and not get quite so annoyed on boards which take a much harsher line on posts that are anti-developer.
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since my original post violated forum rules, and was removed, I will post again, in a nicer way.
You sir, are a fool.
This was one of the dumbest ideas Cryptic or NCSoft has ever come up with.
I hope it backfires upon you and I also hope you sleep well at night knowing you screwed the playerbase.
0.02c
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Wow. Way to post "nicer." Especially when utilizing the phrases 'dumbest idea...ever,' 'hope you sleep well at night,' and 'screwed the playerbase,' please don't speak for me. EVER.
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IMO the original that was based on was ban worthy and I certainly wouldn't have allowed the re-write even to stay up.
So we know at least that the MODS are much nicer people than me.
[/ QUOTE ]
I didnt read the original so cant comment on that, the rewrite however is perfectly acceptable and is a valid opinion. At least we know the Mods are not anal about only having Ra-Ra sqaud posts and allow the exchange of ideas and opinions, perhaps you would be more at home on the SOE boards, you will find them more to your liking.
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I fail to see how flat out insulting Posi can be considered an idea exchange or a valid opinion.
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Its a perfectly valid opinion, he thinks the man is a fool, its really quite clear in his post, it may not be fact, it may not be shared but its still an opinion.
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[my original reply to Positron's post and additional text deleted]
And as people start selling stuff for 1inf, or very low prices, people will start biding low prices. Keeping the prices down.
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The 1 inf offer will ONLY be there long enough to complete the inf transfer. I'm not talking about posting a value like that for a long term sell order. It's ONLY meant to get around the issue Positron talked about, that someone else can intercept your transfer if they happen to be selling the same item at the same time.
By bidding low, you make sure you're the next one in the queue. And you WANT to be the next one in the queue, since you're about to step up and take it out of the queue.
I actually stated above that for long term orders, offering 1 inf would be a bad idea, for the very reasons you confirm.