101,888 EXP in a single kill -- Can you top it?
By
Alannon,
Posted on: 2007-01-27 16:36 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Or we could reduce the effectiveness of a suite of Temp Powers. Shivans and the Nuke's are pretty dang good.
And before more people jump on Optimus, we've known those powers were over the top since they were created.
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There's absolutely no way to gauge what "over the top" is. Assume for a moment that the Nuke from warburg just instakilled everything it hit in PvE (let's say outside of hami). Would it be "worth it"? I'm not sure. Probably not in an xp/time perspective. It wouldn't be unrealistic, given that it's an orbital missile.
You spend a lot of time - probably at LEAST 15 minutes, but maybe a LOT more, gather up codes, at great risk of just being murdered by PvPers (assuming you're there only for the codes and want to avoid PvP as much as possible).
The Shivans are less risky simply because less people are constantly ganking mission-goers in BB. It's a shame, too, that PvP is "balanced for teams" but Warburg codes and nukes are basically individual rewards, and the nature of PvP there encourages solo gankers.
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So, presuming that Nukes and/or Shivans are going to be nerfed no matter what...
...what form should the nerfing take?
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Shivans would likely get demoted a class or two. They're Elite Bosses right now. They'd likely go down to Boss or Lt. Class.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
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Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
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Villains
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Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
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Nerf Arcanaville!!
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I tried, but she baffled me with logic and I ended up buffing her instead. *shakes fist*
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Wait, did you just call me Optimus? I noticed you quoted my response.
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D'oh! My bad! This is a Prime example of what happens with lack of sleep!
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Please, take the day off and get some sleep. I wouldn't want the wrong power modified.
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yeah, they might Transform, oh, say, MoG into a toggle.
And people say it's worthless now...
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Leave the Shivan. When not used by someone who constantly uses them, I think they're just right.
Someone like me, which I'd assume is the majority, only gets the Shivans very rarely. I got my first shivan power in over a month last night when I wanted to solo my Scirocco Arc. Needed him for all the Psi Elite Bosses.
Since (once again, just my feeling on this) the majority of players use the Shivans only in rare instances, it would be a shame for them to... ya know, suck.
Edit: Almost forgot. Nukes seem about right too, for the level of difficulty in getting them. In my experience, I get killed at least twice when I try to get one.
@Bengal Fist - Freedom - Authority SG
Bengal Fist (SS/EA) - Thirt3en (Time/Elec) - Aussi (Elec/Shield) - Potamoi (Water/Time) - Parkr (Staff/Ela)
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Leave the Shivan. When not used by someone who constantly uses them, I think they're just right.
Someone like me, which I'd assume is the majority, only gets the Shivans very rarely. I got my first shivan power in over a month last night when I wanted to solo my Scirocco Arc. Needed him for all the Psi Elite Bosses.
Since (once again, just my feeling on this) the majority of players use the Shivans only in rare instances, it would be a shame for them to... ya know, suck.
Edit: Almost forgot. Nukes seem about right too, for the level of difficulty in getting them. In my experience, I get killed at least twice when I try to get one.
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Its very possible for the Shivans to be reduced but still be valueable. A nerf need not be crippling.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
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I don't know, man... you'd figure a guy who named himself after a pretty ingenious chess manuever could come up with something better than a pun. 
Although, puns are like coke. They're a tough habit to kick.
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Ingenious ???
I'm thinking chess isn't your strong suit
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What on earth is wrong with using a single move to:
A: Get your rook into play
B: Protect your king
C: Gain center board dominance
?
Oh nm... I'm too late.
NERF SHIVANS AND NUKES AND LRSF HEROES!!!!
Be well, people of CoH.
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Wait, did you just call me Optimus? I noticed you quoted my response.
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D'oh! My bad! This is a Prime example of what happens with lack of sleep!
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*rimshot*
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No, not really. In fact, I've seen it used and used it most often before the active need to defend my king became present, meaning well before things weren't going my way.
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Sorry it took a while ... Switched venues and had dinner
Certainly there are openings which include Castling ... But it's still of a (generally) defensive mindset and playstyle.
I tend to be offensively oriented and generally only castle AFTER the other player has (meaning I'm looking at a long protracted game of turtling), or when I find myself being a bit too offensive and in trouble.
I've really only used it a handful of times offensively.
I'm not knocking it ... It's a move like any other ... One which is fairly specialized, generally defensive, and comes in handy from time to time.
But ingenious ??? I dunno.
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The move itself is pretty ingenious if only because of how unusual a move it is in itself.
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If castling is a novel move, en passant must seem like devil worship.
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Well ... I laughed 
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Leave the Shivan. When not used by someone who constantly uses them, I think they're just right.
Someone like me, which I'd assume is the majority, only gets the Shivans very rarely. I got my first shivan power in over a month last night when I wanted to solo my Scirocco Arc. Needed him for all the Psi Elite Bosses.
Since (once again, just my feeling on this) the majority of players use the Shivans only in rare instances, it would be a shame for them to... ya know, suck.
Edit: Almost forgot. Nukes seem about right too, for the level of difficulty in getting them. In my experience, I get killed at least twice when I try to get one.
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Its very possible for the Shivans to be reduced but still be valueable. A nerf need not be crippling.
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True. But I don't think they're overpowered enough to warrant any change, really.
Besides, if history has shown us anything, it's that the Devs, while I usually agree with them, don't usually nerf lightly.
@Bengal Fist - Freedom - Authority SG
Bengal Fist (SS/EA) - Thirt3en (Time/Elec) - Aussi (Elec/Shield) - Potamoi (Water/Time) - Parkr (Staff/Ela)
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When you do, doesn't it give you a much better defense, especially when you manage to do it pretty early in the game?
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No. Its never a good idea to execute a castle too early in the game, giving the opponent the opportunity to concentrate on developing an attack on the castle's weak side. Its useful as a defensive move provided the game proceeds normally with the primary focus on the center of the board. But there are strong castling moves, and weak castling moves. Generally, neither are "ingenious." Ingenious implies non-obvious. A castle that turns into a non-sacrificing fork-check: that's ingenious (and your opponent is an idiot).
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No, I'm not saying castling on, say, your seventh or eighth move is an excellent idea, nor is starting off with the intention of doing it as soon as possible, but when the game's being played in the center of the board, before you need to actively defend your king, castling early's a sound move. Ingenious? The move itself is pretty ingenious if only because of how unusual a move it is in itself.
Also, my ingenious (yes, that's right, ingenious!) plan to defend my king, Ultimus, by distracting you guys with semantics is paying off in spades. Suckers.
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Please, call me Optimus.
By the way, this thread has 159 rates... I'm also not banned like someone said.
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Someone care to explain what a rate is? Otherwise, 159 rates means nothing to me.
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When I created the thread, the 1-star herd that follows me around came in and tagged this thread with one star rates. So I came in and 5 starred the thread like 110 times. After that people have just been randomly rating the thread. You can find it on the bottom.
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Alright, cool... so does that actually give you anything, or is it just something to talk about?
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Not really, it is just odd to see a thread with so many rates.
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It's because you're so great ... I thought we covered that already.
(though if 110 of them are yours, then really you've only gotten 49)
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So, presuming that Nukes and/or Shivans are going to be nerfed no matter what...
...what form should the nerfing take?
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Shivans would likely get demoted a class or two. They're Elite Bosses right now. They'd likely go down to Boss or Lt. Class.
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What they SHOULD do and what they end up doing are very rarely the same thing.
If they handle it like the recent Winter Event temp power issue, they'll either be taken completely out, or turned into minions.
I mean if "over the top" to "useful" seems logical and is what people seem to want from them ...
Then their track record says they'll end up worthless.
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Leave the Shivan. When not used by someone who constantly uses them, I think they're just right.
Someone like me, which I'd assume is the majority, only gets the Shivans very rarely. I got my first shivan power in over a month last night when I wanted to solo my Scirocco Arc. Needed him for all the Psi Elite Bosses.
Since (once again, just my feeling on this) the majority of players use the Shivans only in rare instances, it would be a shame for them to... ya know, suck.
Edit: Almost forgot. Nukes seem about right too, for the level of difficulty in getting them. In my experience, I get killed at least twice when I try to get one.
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Sorry to go straight to Doomcon 1, but when a dev uses the phrase "over the top" about anything in this game ???
You best be getting the most out of it between now and the next patch.
I cannot see why you find this soloing. You used a temp pet (Shivan not to mention). It's not like you did EVERY hit and debuff yourself, lol... Gratz for beating her though, lol 
Brutes are built to kick @$�, not to save that of yours - Double Electro
My DeviantArt | RobotSouls.com
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You do realize I've done this so far with Stone Armor/Super Strength (Tanker) and Fire/Fire Brute? Next is probably going to be a Corruptor. If they start nerfing, they may as well do another global nerf cause I can do this with any character.
Or they could buff AV's.
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Or we could reduce the effectiveness of a suite of Temp Powers. Shivans and the Nuke's are pretty dang good.
And before more people jump on Optimus, we've known those powers were over the top since they were created.
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If you do so, please look at what has been buffed because of that.
For example, I was recently in a good balanced team doing the Eden trial. We got to the Quarry, the Giant Monster designed for 2-3 teams in our single team instanced mission. Couldn't even nick it. A few shivans, and we could have dealt with them handily. We shouldn't have had to do that.
Also, for the Lord Recluse Strike Force...those are now considered necessary by most teams I've tried to enter.
If you reduce the effectiveness of the nukes and shivans, that would be great, IF you also adjust the encounters that appear to make them mandatory.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
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Or we could reduce the effectiveness of a suite of Temp Powers. Shivans and the Nuke's are pretty dang good.
And before more people jump on Optimus, we've known those powers were over the top since they were created.
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Is this as close as I'll ever get to a developer admission that they were put in as the sekrit trick to completing the pre-i8 LRSF?
I knew it. I just knew it.
- Protea
And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines
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I cannot see why you find this soloing. You used a temp pet (Shivan not to mention). It's not like you did EVERY hit and debuff yourself, lol... Gratz for beating her though, lol
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Shivans are very strong in terms of their support, but separate from that I do not see the difference between soloing with Shivans, and soloing with a tray full of inspirations, or soloing with accolades, or soloing with veteran powers, or soloing with controller pets. As I've said before, there are no official rules for soloing, so I don't see where this is a disqualifier.
Is it more impressive for a tank to solo a tough AV without a Shivan, than a blaster with one? How about a defender with nukes verses an Ill/rad without them? Each accomplishment is a separate achievement that you can compare against each other, but that doesn't invalidate one over the other.
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my team of 4 (bots/ff MM, fire/thermal corr, ss/invuln brute, and myself, an ice/dark corruptor, all 50 but me, who was 49) took down Lord Recluse during the first double xp weekend. it was the brutes mission, and she was set to relentless. it took a while, but we finally took him down, and as a reward, i got a bit over 1,000,000 xp. i nearly peed in my pants as roughly 2.5 bars completed at lvl 49 (for killing Recluse and the mission bonus). that was one of the single greatest moments for me, in game, ever...
but for this past weekend, i took my ice/cold corr, at lvl 49 on the LRSF. he needed about 3 or 4 bars to 50, which i got after killing Valkyrie the first time in the Vindicators mission. i'd really like to have seen what a +4 Hero would've been worth, but each Vindicator was worth ~141,000 xp.
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I can solo an AV with my energy blaster, a tray full of inspirations, and the biological nuke; and correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the bio nuke buffed after its initial release?
So either energy blasters are overpowered, inspirations are overpowered, or I am.
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Wow, really? I'm honestly surprised you could overcome the AV regen rate with only one blaster, even at the damage cap.
- Protea
PS - you forgot, "or bio nukes are overpowered".
And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines
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Not really, it is just odd to see a thread with so many rates.
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Not sure why you would find it odd to see the thread has 159 rates when you personally account for 2/3 of them, and by bringing up the issue of rating, you encouraged those who would not normally rate a thread (like myself) to do so to counteract your admitted abuse of the system.
*shrug*
~Wyrm
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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Not really, it is just odd to see a thread with so many rates.
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Not sure why you would find it odd to see the thread has 159 rates when you personally account for 2/3 of them, and by bringing up the issue of rating, you encouraged those who would not normally rate a thread (like myself) to do so to counteract your admitted abuse of the system.
*shrug*
~Wyrm
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That was the entire idea. A developer has responded, everyone is rating this thread, maybe I can get it stickied next?
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Boooooooo! They just need to be toned down. In the case of Shivans, they're ridiculously easy to get. The fact that they made them that powerful in the first place for such little effort surprises me.
If they tone down the nukes, though, they'll have to make the crap you go through to get just one of them easier. Warburg's a warzone where everyone, even other heroes or villains, are gunning for you. They almost seem reasonable so far as power is concerned considering how tough it is to get one on a busy day.
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Think that's the issue with both of them. I doubt the Developers ever intended for people to be able to get them so easily. The idea was that these rewards would be so good that it would entice people into the PvP zones, where they'd PvP. Of course, since neither of these things involve PvP to get, it's not entirely surprising to me that people go purely for these things and leave once they're gotten (something I pointed out in beta...). I know I have. I can get the Shivan by myself in probably 10-15 minutes. Sometimes, people I run into will help me since they're just there for the same thing.
Perhaps if they want to change these powers, they should try to incorporate more of the "game" into them. I know that might be unpopular, but at the same time, I'd suggest (as I have for months) that we see similar games in the PvE zones.
Since this thread is all over the place I guess it can't hurt to post my opinion here
I think the main problem, as mentioned before in certain places - is the rewards are too easy to get, as is.
Also, the mechanics for getting them aren't team friendly
I'm sure the initial design decision was based around "Wow, these pvp zones are going to be really busy, and it'll be tricky to complete these objectives so we better make them worthwhile"
But, pvp is mostly a wasteland... and, if it isn't a wasteland, you can wait a few hours and the zone will be empty again.
I think they should re-do the objectives for shivans and nukes and make them team content.
For bloody bay, Something along the lines of replacing the firebases with Shivan GM/Monsters (that are winter lord-ish level in difficulty), that are triggered/spawned when x amount of shivans are defeated around a meteor, shivan temp power is awarded to the team.
For Warburg, perhaps reducing the code requirement to 1, but guarding each scientist with 3-4 Arachnoid Elite Bosses, and said code is awarded to every member of the team.
[And, as a side effect - we might see more team vs. team PvP, rather than lame 1v1'ing with the few effective solo pvp builds)
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Since this thread is all over the place I guess it can't hurt to post my opinion here
I think the main problem, as mentioned before in certain places - is the rewards are too easy to get, as is.
Also, the mechanics for getting them aren't team friendly
I'm sure the initial design decision was based around "Wow, these pvp zones are going to be really busy, and it'll be tricky to complete these objectives so we better make them worthwhile"
But, pvp is mostly a wasteland... and, if it isn't a wasteland, you can wait a few hours and the zone will be empty again.
I think they should re-do the objectives for shivans and nukes and make them team content.
For bloody bay, Something along the lines of replacing the firebases with Shivan GM/Monsters (that are winter lord-ish level in difficulty), that are triggered/spawned when x amount of shivans are defeated around a meteor, shivan temp power is awarded to the team.
For Warburg, perhaps reducing the code requirement to 1, but guarding each scientist with 3-4 Arachnoid Elite Bosses, and said code is awarded to every member of the team.
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Thats a good idea
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So, presuming that Nukes and/or Shivans are going to be nerfed no matter what...
...what form should the nerfing take?
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Limit them to PVP zones
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Boooooooo! They just need to be toned down. In the case of Shivans, they're ridiculously easy to get. The fact that they made them that powerful in the first place for such little effort surprises me.
If they tone down the nukes, though, they'll have to make the crap you go through to get just one of them easier. Warburg's a warzone where everyone, even other heroes or villains, are gunning for you. They almost seem reasonable so far as power is concerned considering how tough it is to get one on a busy day.