Signature powers... for players -- I had this idea
By
AaronH,
Posted on: 2007-01-06 20:29 in Suggestions and Ideas
Good question and one that I think we need to touch on. I was thinking that if we took one Power that it would be in the 6-8 teir range. I don't see this as overbalancing because everyone can get the same thing at the same rate. I realize that we can't just build a raw damage Power and get a tier-9 Nova but then that wasen't the point anyway.
Other thoughts along this line now that it's been brought up?
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
If any of you have bothered to read the last five or so pages of the thread, all of that is carefully detailed and listed. 
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Ebon, mind lowering the recharge a bit? If not, Sig. Powers should be a lot stronger.
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Well, if we allow players to continue gaining "points" after level 50, and have a minimum recharge then eventually you can get to a level you'd be happy with. I'm trying to balance these powers with what's already in the game - the "badge" powers are on a very very long recharge, for a lot less power than these - though admittedly the veteran rewards are much more powerful and have quick recharges.
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I'm begining to think Sig Powers should have their recharge based on how they are designed.
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I did consider that, but it is effectively what this system accomplishes - since every point spent limits what you can spend on reducing your recharge, and more expensive effects cost more, the greater the effect, the greater the recharge.
If you're asking for finer grain control, that I can understand - I've tried to keep this system simple, but it'd be easy enough to scale everything up by ten (10 points per level, costs x10, etc.) and then the different effects could be balanced a little better.
That would become hideously complicated, however, and I don't think the benefits and headache from balancing would be worth it.
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Since so many seem to be asking for multiple powers, how does this sound:
No more than 20 points can be spent on one power.
There's no limit to how many points can be earned.
After 50, each point is awarded when you've gained enough XP to level.
To get two "maxed" powers would be the equivalent of getting to level 72. No easy feat, but would be an incentive to keep playing your level 50's - being able to wow n00bs under Atlas with a string of customised powers would be an acceptable substitue for the legend system, methinks?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Psychoti
"....so I headbutted the blind chick."
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[ cruise / casual-tempest.net / transference.org / xenogamous.com / wytedragon.net / quantam sufficit ]
I have a request: Could we edit a page-1 Post to include Ebon-Angel's proposed price list? It seems that that is the working list for now but having it get buried back in the thread makes it tough to find. Just a QoL issue...
Now that I've read the entire thread again (whew!) I want to make some suggestions and comments (of course):
I see no problem with the base recharge at 1000 seconds. It's an established figure in the game and obviously a limiting factor to prevent abuse. If we're working on a limit of 20 points per sig Power then I think we should cap any specific effect at 10 points (max lvl for damage). This would also give a limit of 150 feet (yes, I think something changed from yards to feet somewhere), the same as Sniper Powers are now.
As to recharge times, I think that 1 point equals -50 seconds works. This means that a straight damage sig could be lvl 5 damage (extreme) with no other effects, Melee range, full End (I think 20 is the baseline now) and a 500 second (once every 8.3 minutes). This keeps the math simple and doesn't seem to break the system IMHO since you could only get this high at the coveted 50.3 level.
However I think (unfortunately) that the Devs will try to scale damage based on type (less resisted = lower damage cap). I personally don't see this as a necessity since the recharge time is very long but they may not see it that way. Psi is almost unresisted and they may not want an Extreme Psi-based attack. Toxic is the same way.
Also, I think that Immob and Hold should be priced differently since enemies can still attack with the former and they can't with the latter. Perhaps Hold is twice as expensive as Immob?
I also like the option of several smaller sig Powers over one large ones. As I mentioned before I see one 'sig attack chain' as the same as 'one big sig power'. I can see my MA/ Scrapper with 3 sig attacks in his chain, each with a different effect. Not sure how others feel about this and input is always accepted.
More later...
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
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Since so many seem to be asking for multiple powers, how does this sound:
No more than 20 points can be spent on one power.
There's no limit to how many points can be earned.
After 50, each point is awarded when you've gained enough XP to level.
To get two "maxed" powers would be the equivalent of getting to level 72. No easy feat, but would be an incentive to keep playing your level 50's - being able to wow n00bs under Atlas with a string of customised powers would be an acceptable substitue for the legend system, methinks?
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Um, no.
No matter how long it might take to get enough points for 10 such powers, it will happen. Our coal could start doing 3 LRSFs a day, and Doors in WB or farm RV if not enough for the LRSF. That would be a maxed sig power per week, maybe two, could be less even.
And then I could make a 10 power attack chain and prolly solo AVs and Heroes on any char. I'd say keep it to one maxed power, tho maybe you could make more then one power, but you'll have to divide those points among those powers.
haha, Jack didn't talk about us.
yeah, Serps.. i noticed that as well.
then again, maybe he did and it's just not showing up? take a look at the last question/answer.. there's a spot for Jack's answer, but no text there. so, maybe the responses were cut off?
hopefully we get lucky and they either post here or address it in the future somewhere along the line.
My first MA: It's a No Good day. (Arc ID: 92684)
@CybinMonde: Nethershift - (50) - Dark/Regen/Dark scrapper (Infinity)
@Solunis: Desumater - (27) - Elec/Dark brute (Pinnacle); Syrah - (23) - DB/WP scrapper (Pinnacle) (proud member of Pinnacle on Tap)
i dont know if i'v /signed this yet and im not about to read 34 pages (congratz) of responses sooooooo
/sign
/signed and uhh.... /double-signed
Ok heres my idea. Each player gets one signiture move. This is an uber move that has negative effects based on its strength. the strength of the power is determined by a slider system. if a slider i further to one side another slider will be closer to the other.
ex: if i put the damage slider all the way to the extreme side the recharge and accuracy will move tward the longer and lesser side.
there would be different types of powers you could make. click toggle aoe ect. you could choose the VFX and SFX from powers that already exist plus whatever they add themselfs, and transformation powers would be another costume slot that you set up ahead of time. this transformation costume will have all costume pieces unlocked. (new players could transform into a person with wings and auras) and the negative effects would mean that if it is a true uper hurt power and you dont kill all enemies you die a death fit for a NOOOOB.
you would be able to make your signiture move at lvl 14. (since you get your travel power then i figure its a turning point that means the character's made it)
some moves might be a spammer, or a snipe, or a transformation, auto power the sky would be the limit an it would allow a player to make a character that has an effect that it would never have. like a tankable MM or a blaster with a powerful melee attack. but you wouldn't be able to make a power for nothing. it would cost a mission and some money.
an example of what my BIack Rose Characters sig would be is:
effects minnions and player
damage +200%
defence +200%
flight
massive +end regen
change appearence large black angel wings black aura body/eyes and sword
massive power huh? 
seems unfair right. well thats until 30 sec's is up after 30 seconds then this happens
dismiss minnions
disorient 60 seconds
cant use inspirations for 30 seconds
-defence 200% for 60 seconds
so basically if i use this power and an enemy lives he will pimp slap me to oblivion.
someone else might do this
attack click
damage moderate
recharge fast
endurance low
accuracy medium
range loooooong
where another person will do this
auto power
brawl damage +400%(about 36 damage from my estimate)
-enemy def min long dur
-acc minor
add costume piece sword
thats my idea for signature moves let me know what you think and let me know what you would do if you could. try to keep it balaced. put negative effects at the end or as part of the power. if they're at the end they'll be more severe then negative effects at the start of the power.
Murphys Military Law
#23. Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.
#46. If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed towards you.
#54. Killing for peace is like screwing for virginity.
i didnt read the whole post cause its way to big to read but sig powers would be awesome (hmm i would make Super Nova if i ever got a char to that level and if this is released) and heres some ideas to even it out. it should be through invention system and take hundreds or even millions of salvage to make. they cuase major exhuastion to use and your character (for melee controll and buff) will be stunned for a few minutes. ranged sig attacks will knock your chacter back and knock him/her down for a few minutes. they cant be used in arena/pvp places.
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Since so many seem to be asking for multiple powers, how does this sound:
No more than 20 points can be spent on one power.
There's no limit to how many points can be earned.
After 50, each point is awarded when you've gained enough XP to level.
To get two "maxed" powers would be the equivalent of getting to level 72. No easy feat, but would be an incentive to keep playing your level 50's - being able to wow n00bs under Atlas with a string of customised powers would be an acceptable substitue for the legend system, methinks?
[/ QUOTE ]
Um, no.
No matter how long it might take to get enough points for 10 such powers, it will happen. Our coal could start doing 3 LRSFs a day, and Doors in WB or farm RV if not enough for the LRSF. That would be a maxed sig power per week, maybe two, could be less even.
And then I could make a 10 power attack chain and prolly solo AVs and Heroes on any char. I'd say keep it to one maxed power, tho maybe you could make more then one power, but you'll have to divide those points among those powers.
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Yeah, this was my issue with it initially, but people kept asking for it. I'm not sure they'd "be able to solo an AV" tho...
Let's assume the maximum 20 points:
[u]Range of Power[u]
1 point / 15 feet
We'll assume this is a tank for the moment, so 0 points here, as this will be a melee attack.
[u]2) Area of effect[u]
1 point / 3 feet
If it's for taking on AV's, it only needs to be single-target.
[u]3) Effect[u]
2 points / damage level, 1 point / per magnitude other effects
10 points of an extreme damage attack, of course, and another five for the maximum -regen.
[u]4) Duration of effects[u]
1 point / second
5 points used here on the -regen, for a 5-second duration.
------------
Extreme damage, single-target melee attack with a -regen for 5 seconds, using 20 end, with a 20-minute recharge and default accuracy.
To be able to chain them non-stop, you'd need 240, and they have probably approaching a 50/50 chance of landing (I can't remember what the base to hit would be against a same level'd (ie. purple) AV), so nearer 500 to keep it constant.
At only 5 seonds of -regen you're not going to see much difference unless you can constantly spam these and if you couldn't solo the AV before, you wouldn't be able to without keeping it constant. To say nothing of the endurance cost of 20 end every 5-seconds.
So I don't actually think it's a problem, and one reason why I kept the recharge so damn high to start with.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Psychoti
"....so I headbutted the blind chick."
|
[ cruise / casual-tempest.net / transference.org / xenogamous.com / wytedragon.net / quantam sufficit ]
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will have all costume pieces unlocked. (new players could transform into a person with wings and auras)
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OK, why did the devs lock up wings with Inventions/Vet rewards and auras with a mish at lvl 30 if we're just gonna do this?
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you would be able to make your signiture move at lvl 14. (since you get your travel power then i figure its a turning point that means the character's made it)
[/ QUOTE ]
And assuming that we're getting a point a lvl that would be 36 points to spend rather than the 18/20 (forgot which) we originally had.
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it would allow a player to make a character that has an effect that it would never have. like a blaster with a powerful melee attack.
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*cough* /nrg *cough* 
Don't mean to knock down your idea, just pointing out some things.
heres my new idea since your only getting around 36 points with your ideas why not trade in like 150 arcane or tech salvage and get 10 extra points so salvage has more to it.
i would make a power like this:
Name: Leap of Faith
Effects: Teleport to target, PBAOE, Knockback, Recharge very slow, damage Extreme.
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will have all costume pieces unlocked. (new players could transform into a person with wings and auras)
[/ QUOTE ]
OK, why did the devs lock up wings with Inventions/Vet rewards and auras with a mish at lvl 30 if we're just gonna do this?
[/ QUOTE ]
-the costume pieces would only be unlocked for transformation powers. and with the balancing system i thought it wouldn't be practical for someone to use this power just for another costume slot. also if you make it too strong it wont last long and would hurt you. all for another costume.
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you would be able to make your signiture move at lvl 14. (since you get your travel power then i figure its a turning point that means the character's made it)
And assuming that we're getting a point a lvl that would be 36 points to spend rather than the 18/20 (forgot which) we originally had.
[/ QUOTE ]
-this is a completely different idea than the one posted. you dont earn points with my idea you just get the full power and its effects are calculated to balance it out.
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it would allow a player to make a character that has an effect that it would never have. like a blaster with a powerful melee attack.
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-exactly. how many times do you see heros and villains with an awsome move that goes against there normal build.(emma frost a psycic with an impervious dimond shell, or hitting closer to home statesman with a powerful aoe nuke,or black scorpion a brute with energy blasts) not to mention patron and anticallry power pools do the same thing: give you powers your AT wouldn't normally have-
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*cough* /nrg *cough*
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(im a forum noob to the highest degree what is /nrg 
)
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Don't mean to knock down your idea, just pointing out some things.
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Murphys Military Law
#23. Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.
#46. If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed towards you.
#54. Killing for peace is like screwing for virginity.
This is the best idea I've seen for player customization! It should go in I-10 or before!!!
/nrg is the /energy secondary for blasters. It has a bunch of powerful melee attacks. (Ex. Bone Crusher)
Black_rose, thanks for your support, but it would probably help if you read the rest of this thread first - heck, even the first post would be a start.
We've hammered out a system that so far seems to be acceptable to most everyone, and isn't horribly broken. Rather than jump in with a completely unrelated system, it would be nice if you could explain what's wrong with the one we've currently developed first.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Psychoti
"....so I headbutted the blind chick."
|
[ cruise / casual-tempest.net / transference.org / xenogamous.com / wytedragon.net / quantam sufficit ]
since this was stickied im gessing the devs like this too.
good work guys and i hope this gets implimented in some form.
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[ QUOTE ]
Since so many seem to be asking for multiple powers, how does this sound:
No more than 20 points can be spent on one power.
There's no limit to how many points can be earned.
After 50, each point is awarded when you've gained enough XP to level.
To get two "maxed" powers would be the equivalent of getting to level 72. No easy feat, but would be an incentive to keep playing your level 50's - being able to wow n00bs under Atlas with a string of customised powers would be an acceptable substitue for the legend system, methinks?
[/ QUOTE ]
Um, no.
No matter how long it might take to get enough points for 10 such powers, it will happen. Our coal could start doing 3 LRSFs a day, and Doors in WB or farm RV if not enough for the LRSF. That would be a maxed sig power per week, maybe two, could be less even.
And then I could make a 10 power attack chain and prolly solo AVs and Heroes on any char. I'd say keep it to one maxed power, tho maybe you could make more then one power, but you'll have to divide those points among those powers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, this was my issue with it initially, but people kept asking for it. I'm not sure they'd "be able to solo an AV" tho...
Let's assume the maximum 20 points:
[u]Range of Power[u]
1 point / 15 feet
We'll assume this is a tank for the moment, so 0 points here, as this will be a melee attack.
[u]2) Area of effect[u]
1 point / 3 feet
If it's for taking on AV's, it only needs to be single-target.
[u]3) Effect[u]
2 points / damage level, 1 point / per magnitude other effects
10 points of an extreme damage attack, of course, and another five for the maximum -regen.
[u]4) Duration of effects[u]
1 point / second
5 points used here on the -regen, for a 5-second duration.
------------
Extreme damage, single-target melee attack with a -regen for 5 seconds, using 20 end, with a 20-minute recharge and default accuracy.
To be able to chain them non-stop, you'd need 240, and they have probably approaching a 50/50 chance of landing (I can't remember what the base to hit would be against a same level'd (ie. purple) AV), so nearer 500 to keep it constant.
At only 5 seonds of -regen you're not going to see much difference unless you can constantly spam these and if you couldn't solo the AV before, you wouldn't be able to without keeping it constant. To say nothing of the endurance cost of 20 end every 5-seconds.
So I don't actually think it's a problem, and one reason why I kept the recharge so damn high to start with.
[/ QUOTE ]
As a thought, how would you construct a signature power like "Bodyguard" using this system?
[ QUOTE ]
Black_rose, thanks for your support, but it would probably help if you read the rest of this thread first - heck, even the first post would be a start.
We've hammered out a system that so far seems to be acceptable to most everyone, and isn't horribly broken. Rather than jump in with a completely unrelated system, it would be nice if you could explain what's wrong with the one we've currently developed first.
[/ QUOTE ]
first and foremost i see nothing wrong with the system you made. i just prefer to have one power with all effects right away as opposed to building it up. your system is based on points and that didn't appeal to me so i came up with an alternate approach. your idea was great i believe my idea was pretty good and the both might give a new angle to the magnificant idea. by the way i read the first post and like the first two pages and then decided 34 pages was too much and made my post 
Murphys Military Law
#23. Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.
#46. If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed towards you.
#54. Killing for peace is like screwing for virginity.
I like the Idea of being able to create your own signature power.
Personally I don't see anything wrong with maybe making this an extention mission (Avaliable at level 33) to the Aura Mission. Since your essentionally unlocking your potential supposedly and trying to learn more about your powers, it could make sense to be simply furthering that mission along to an AV fight at the end (If on Invinc/Relent) Or always an Elite Boss. (If anything below Inv/Rel difficulty) It might even be cool if this were a TF/SF reward of some kind.
I don't know if I like the 20 Minute Recharge time personally.
Maybe it should start as a...60 second Recharge time. And the further you Alter Damage, and Accuracy, or Hold strength, the higher it gets and maybe the more you do other things the lower the recharge gets (But no lower then say 30 seconds?) And hasten couldn't improve this.
Just my suggestions (If not already suggested some place before..started skimming some where around page 10ish)
And now..my favorite character's signature power:
VNeinV(Hero)/Nein Rodello(Villian): Peppermint of Doom -
The entire attack would be mostly the following 3 types of attacks..
Fire Breath for the animation.
Fireball (Fired at the end of the Fire Breath Animation) for the Damage explosion (Though Colors would be changed slightly to add Dark flares to it)
Life Drain (Small life return)
Damage would be minimal, Life gain would be Minimal, No Hold, High Knockback, Short Range (About the same as Fire Breath), No DoT, Accuracy would be high, And if possible the Damage would be Fire and Neg Energy.
yeah!
I've seen this thread since it was just made and imagine my suprize when it's become a sticky!!!
has a dev poasted yet? (too long to read the whole thing)
sweet man, i hope i see this in the game soon.
/signed^8792763872678232
i just finally read through the whole thing while waiting for a GM to respond to a bugged mission... i really really like the work done by Edon and the OP... i was kinda dissapointed that no redname could be found throughout the whole thread though... i really do hope to see this implemented
/signed
@Johnstone & @Johnstone 2
ediblePoly.com
All my characters
Hmm, that's a good point. Tier up the signature powers that you could divide among your choice.
Gale is lvl 1 anyway, and Stone cages is probably lvl 2 but I don't play controllers. Don't remember if there are any cone sleeps but a ranged AoE sleep(Spore) is available at lvl 10 I think....but who ever takes that