Yeah, I've tracked down the source of this bug and am working on a fix. It's fairly insidious, though, and is going to take a couple days of work to get it straightened out.
EDIT: FYI, it affects all auto-taunt effects from Tankers and Brutes with only one or two exceptions.
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So don't delay, act now! Supplies are running out.
Edited by _Castle_ (12/08/06 05:36 PM)
ok so now that you have confirmed it on the brutes forum.
and with the deathshroud causing issues for the druid because of it being the taunt aura for brutes .... could this possibly be why my dark/dark SCRAPPER is having the same issues? does the scrapper death shroud have a taunt effect as well as the brutes version?
if it does then it would make sense as to why im having these tank/brute related problems on my dark/dark scrapper.
I noticed this happening alot since the last patch was pushed out. Last night Hellions seems to be running as soon as you get a hit or two on them. Something has certainly changed in the way the AI is reacting, and not in a good way.
Ditto on not having taunt on either of the toons played, yet they are still running around like chickens with their heads cut off, and when I mean run, I mean run, like half of a LARGE cave map.
I've noticed that AV's, bosses, lt's will take off running from my dark/dark defender with their health full up when I hit them with Howling Twilight. I use HT a lot when I'm soloing as an attack, I even have slow enh slotted in it.
They don't run very fast but they do run... 
36 level 50's in various servers...haven't been here in a while. It's now over 50
Perhaps it's just me, but with _Castle_ confirming it is a bug, does this show us any insight as to how the mechanics work for the game ;-)
PS- thanks for sharing _Castle_ glad you were able to track it down.
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OK....i know it's been covered that street sweeping in Bricks has usually had an increased number of runners, but I went back and tried a little test with my BS/Regen scrapper and I KNOW that this should not be covered by the "working as intended" label. I can jump into a mob of +3s and just look at them, and the Boss takes off running for the hills. The minions will attack me as usual, but the Boss wants nothing to do with me. For the life of me I can't remember the name of the particular boss, but he is a Prisoner and I actually went so far as to start hunting for him last night and every time i ran across him, he took off like I had just laid a Burn patch on him. I wanna say his name started with an "S" and it was a 2-part name......ahhhh heck.....guess I'll log in for a sec and post again when I have his name
OK, went back in with my lvl 32 scrapper and ran around in the Zig for a while checking the prisoner AIs and here's what I came up with on the named bosses i jumped in the middle of and did absolutely nothing to.....didn't attack, took Parry off of auto (which kinda hurts when you're testing on +6s and need every bit of +defense)
Slick-lvl 36-Ran
Davie-lvl 38- Ran
Stevie Greene-lvl 37-Fought
Smelly Mel-lvl 37- Fought
J.P. Mason-lvl 37- Ran
Fingers-lvl 37- Ran
Needles-lvl 36- Ran
K....that was my quick testing I did....jumped into a mob with each of those named bosses at least twice each and this is what happens every time....I know I just regged recently and have a low post-count, but I've been around a while and am 100% positive that before this last patch that +6 Bosses sure as heck weren't running from me
The Brickstown anecdotes are similar to what I was noticing. I tested in two zones, Brickstown and Eden.
What I noticed it with primarily was Crey, Freaks, and DE. I tried using a 37 Fire/Fire tanker (no Burn) and a 36 Invuln/EM tanker.
Especially with Crey Paragon Protector bosses, they would maybe take a couple of shots at me and then zoom off, and I mean fast. Then they'd zip around aimlessly before flying/running back over to me and fighting a little more, then off again.
Devouring Earth Lesser Devoured bosses did the same stuff.
They were acting almost exactly like the DE Swarms AI. Except instead of annoying bugs that would fly in, buzz around your head, and fly off, it was bosses.
Now I am familiar with the street-sweeping groups where one guy is gonna run no matter what. But this would typically be after engaging them in combat., and not necessarily when they were close to defeat.
Minions, lord bless 'em, would stand there and fight to the last man. Bosses tended to run first, Lieutenants seemed to take off if you killed their minions.
On the other hand, I was quite happy when three Paragon Protectors in a group in Eden would pop Elude or MoG and then run for the hills while the timer ticked down, coming back just in time for me to kill them when it dropped.
I think maybe they turned up the mob AI from "annoying" to "extra stupid."
Virtue:
Rockburner, Fire/Stone Tanker (50)
Doc Disaster, Earth/Storm Controller (44)
Icewall, Inv/Ice Tanker (42)
Wings, MA/Inv Scrapper (42)
Shockblast, Elec/Elec Blaster (36)
..and many others.
Lol.....that could've been the change to the AI.....the Bosses go ahead and take off for a while so you can kill their minions without worrying about them, then come back a while later so you can finish em off. Unfortunately I couldn't get any of the mobs to actually come back and fight. I actually decided to go and harrass one Tank Smasher and just keep jumping in right next to him so he'd run, wait a few for him to come back and then jump in again and watch him keep running. Seems to me it's almost as if some mobs have had the AI reversed so that the minions will stay and fight til the bitter end and the bosses say "Forget this....i'm scared". Ran around Bricks some more and kept checking other mobs besides Prisoners and it seems to me as if there's more than a 50% chance of the Boss of a mob running. I've been sweeping Bricks for a while now and know that this has not always been the case with me. Immediately upon playing after the patch I had a feeling that something was wrong with the mobs I was fighting.....took me awhile before it clicked in my head and I was like "I know there was a boss in that mob" then searching around and seeing him running off barely in sight range. I know that it's already gotten some Dev attention and I'm grateful that they're looking into this so promptly. I'm just trying to make sure that it's not chalked up as a Taunt Aura problem but seems to be more of a universal AI problem. I hate chasing down minions enough already.....it's absolutely horrible trying to chase down a boss to beat him down when he refuses to even fire a pot-shot back at you. I would be real grateful for a quick-fix....thanks again _Castle_ for always being on top of things
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If those were mook sharpshooters (or whatever their snipers are called), they've done this for a while. They do it in missions as well. It's annoying, but firs with the flavor of the mob. However, getting a warehouse full of these guys is a PITA though, as they don't stop running forever.
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You're right -- Mook Hitmen (LTs) -- must just be the intended AI (along with a lot of them on the map) that had me wondering. Was playing my brute again today (again, no taunt or taunt aura (yet)), Council LTs, Wyvern LTs, Legacy LTs, all behaved as usual, but ran a Mook mission, and the Mook LTs (hitmen) display the behavior I described. Fun stuff, but nothing broken I guess.
I have noticed something odd when playing my Ice/Ice tank - ever since Issue 8 went live it seems like CE and Icicles aren't generating any aggro - mobs aren't sticking on me and regularly break off to go after my teammates. I'm not sure if gauntlet is working either. Before I-8 mobs would stick to be like glue so something weird is definately going on.
Ice/Fire here - running CE and Iciciles in Brickstown. Crey Lts and bosses +3s doing a lot of running off, perhaps half the time even if I haven't done any damage yet. Tested on about 20 crowds and I would say half failed to contribute to teh alpha and simply fled.
SK'd up to fight Rikti level 46 and 47 in a door mish and they were a little better - probably more like one-quarter fleeing immediately.
Cheers
[B] GUARDIAN 50s:[/B] [B]Tank[/B]: Ice/Fire, Fire/Fire, DA/SS, Inv/WM, SD/Elec...[B]Scrap[/B]: BS/Reg, Spin/DA, DM/SD, Fire/WP, Claws/SR....[B]Troller[/B]: Ill/Rad, Fire/Kin...[B]Blaster[/B]: Fire/EM....[B]Defender[/B]: D3...[B]Brute[/B]: Elm/ElA...[B]EPIC[/B]: Widow, PB, Crab...CURRENTLY: 45 Stone/Stone Tank...38 AR/Rad Corr...21 Ice^3 Dom
(QR)
Been running my level 36/7 Ice/Fire the last couple days. Before I ever saw this, I knew something was wrong when while waiting for a Synapse TF to start yesterday, I went hunting Supa Trolls with a un SK'd level 18ish blaster who was also waiting for the rest of the group to show up. I had a hell of a time keeping them off of him (though, any that did charge him were dead in pretty short order). It was really bizarre for me since I have Chilling Embrace slotted with 2 Taunt SO's, and he could pull them off me with one hit. At the time, I chalked it up to the fact that they were gray, and it was something caused by the 'you're 20 levels higher than me, I gotta run away!' behavior. In the TF itself, it worked allright on minions, but bosses and LT's were tough to keep on me, several people got slept by Teslas and the like, (me and a scrapper were the only ones out of 7 of us with Mez protection) though on the whole we did run death free run of the TF, so it didn't cause any disasters or anything, but it was still annoying to not be able to keep the LT's and bosses on me. I WAS able to keep Babbage's attention, (I don't have Taunt) so I was pleased about that. (the CWK was held most of the fight so can't really judge there)
Today I duo'd with a SK'd level 19/20 Empathy defender (also was on the Synapse TF from before, not like it matters) who was pretty focused on 'pure support' though they did have Neutrino bolt and X-Ray Beam eyes and did use them, (particularly when Paragon Protectors whent MoG, to try and debuff defense somewhat) but said they weren't really slotted. We were doing my missions on Unyielding. When fighting Crey things went well, since Crey generally bunch up all nice and tight so i can hit them with my AoE's. Then we fought CoT... still went ok, but the Thorn Casters always try to get at range, so there was more scatter, and my AoE's couldn't always hit all of them, and the Behemoth Overlords took a real liking to swatting at the defender even if they were in my Chilling Embrace right as they were doing it. I could run around touch the minions and they'd stay focused on me for a while even if they insisted on running way far away, but the LT's, and there were a lot of them, would only pay attention to me if i stayed focused on attacking them non stop, pretty much.
After hittinng 20, the defender switched characters to their Ill/Rad controller, level 32, who again, I SK'd up to me. Again had trouble with LT's and Bosses, but this time, with the Rad debuffs and all, they were drawing more aggro to themselves. In one mission with CoT, the controller did die, after getting aggro from some LT's which I was not able to get back. But to be fair, it was a very tough fight, after they went down I had to hit Hibernate twice before the fight was over.
after that, switched to Scanner missions, same problems arose against Arachnos and Freakshow where the LT's would go for the controller even if they were in range of Chilling Embrace.
After THAT (hey, it's Saturday) I discovered thanks to the handy dandy little book icons I had 2 gray storyarcs with no clues in my list, the Scroll of Tikiwhatever (Banished Pantheon with Warriors for flavor) and the Vahzilok Plague (...Vahz 
) I also came agross a Fire in Steel Canyon. For the Fire, I was rounding up hellions with Chilling Embrace, but always discovered that the Damned and Fallen had run away after I had laid waste to the minions, and i had to go chase them down. Dr. Vahzilok tried to run the second I came near him, as did all the Morts, Shamans, and Masks, but the zombies (of both varieties) played nicely for the most part.
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AI critters have always 'cut and run' if they consider themselves unable to win an encounter. The behavior you describe is consistent with that condition.
It is not impossible that the AI is flipping to 'run away' mode too easily for some reason. Reading Aett_Thorns post, it does not sound like this is the case, but if you can get some solid data to back it up it'd definitely be worth looking into.
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As realistic as this AI can be, it really is just an annoyance to have enemies running away when you are a melee attacker with no real ranged attack. Especially in the lower levels where it is common to prefer fighting green, blue and white cons because you arent tough enough to fight higher enemies. Maybe the AI should be reviewed?
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
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some of the people blaming it on the gauntlet fix are short sighted how can it be a gauntlet code fix .. if other scrappers and defenders have posted this in this thread and other threats/forums?
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Actually there are two seperate issues getting mashed into one thread here.
1. Mobs hitting the "Cut and Run" script WAAAAYY to often or early. This is what most people are writting about.
2. Tanks unable to hold agro due to Taunts/Guantlet not working right. This seems to be do to some bad code lines that _Castle_ is already working on. I am hoping that once that is fixed, Tanks at least won't see this "Cut and Run" as often. I can count on one hand the number of times my Fire/Fire tank had anyone run away (Burn is not in my build). I also slot a Taunt into BA for just this reason. So having mobs run from me is totally new to I8.
Just wanted to add my similar experience with my 22 Fire/Fire yesterday. "Cut and Run" way too much and too early. Aggro problems with Gauntlet (no Taunt though). Thanks for looking into this Castle.
Have Fun!
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Actually there are two seperate issues getting mashed into one thread here.
1. Mobs hitting the "Cut and Run" script WAAAAYY to often or early. This is what most people are writting about.
2. Tanks unable to hold agro due to Taunts/Guantlet not working right. This seems to be do to some bad code lines that _Castle_ is already working on. I am hoping that once that is fixed, Tanks at least won't see this "Cut and Run" as often. I can count on one hand the number of times my Fire/Fire tank had anyone run away (Burn is not in my build). I also slot a Taunt into BA for just this reason. So having mobs run from me is totally new to I8.
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I suspect this is correct. Even before I8, you could tell a difference in the "cut & run" behavior w/a tank by turning on & off your aura. W/o, things would run away, even w/punchvoke going (tho perhaps not at the rate they are now). W/your aura on, things would stick to you. At least for tanks, I suspect that when Gauntlet gets fixed, things will stop running away so much. Dunno about the other ATs tho. My controllers never had problems w/things *successfully* running away from, but I suspect that scrappers will be annoyed the most by the new running away behavior.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
My sniper faces this same problem due to the anti-sniping AI.
For those that don't know, back when sniping was an issue, they put in a code that said that if the mob couldn't get in attack range of an enemy by a certain time, then they would come to the conclusion that it is an impossible fight and try to run.
The situation my sniper has is as such:
Line up enemy boss or elite boss at max range, build up, sniper, hasten, sniper, anti-AI triggers, boss starts running (usually about the time he reaches my short range), player begins muttering and cursing as he has to chase the friggin' coward through the entire map.
This only generally changes with enemies that have long enough range to equal my max short range (right now it's just council marksmen, family gunners and skyraider assaults).
Similarly, enemies with a single slow (sledgehammers, vahz, similar such) attack have their Anti-sniper AI triggered when fighting my Ice tank because the time between their attacks is so long that it triggers.
However, I know this is the way it is supposed to work, and most of the time I try to make use of it...I also use the "must get as close as possible" AI and do stuff like hover over light fixtures so that people like the tsoo will waste more than half their time jumping up instead of attacking.
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
PM from _Castle_ summed up. Tanker Gauntlet is autohit as long as the power hits the target... EXCEPT if it hits an AV or a Giant Monster. Autohit Auras will ALWAYS have Gauntlet applied against =<EliteBoss mobs. Gauntlet will make a tohit roll against AV/GMs whenever the power itself hits. I hope this makes sense. It does to me at least.
This is how it is supposed to work. If this part is broken for you, bug it and document it so that we can get it fixed.
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I hope this is a glitch that will be fixed.
I tried to play around with my lvl 10 Brute tonight and my husband and I spent one hour chasing down Lts to finish a mission in Port Oakes.
Mission was defeat PitBull and thugs.
Dark/Elec Brute lvl 10
Ice/Kin Corr lvl 8
I had my husband hang around the corner away from the mooks. I would run into a group of 5 or so with 2-3 Lts. As soon as I got close, 2 or more Lts would take off running. I did not do any damage to the ones that ran.
I realize I do not have taunt or an aura yet. I have never had +1 Mook Lts run just by getting close to them. If I ran after them they would run further. Sometimes all they had to do was see me and they would run. We managed to finish the mission by defeating the minions first then praying AS stuck as we ran after the Lts.
We didn't have any problems with minions. A few ran at low health but that is normal for us. The Lts were the problem.
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QFT
I am a BS-regen scrapper with NO taunt auras etc. and so far the 3rd minion or Lt. from EVERY mob takes off running. This was never the case before issue 8. we saw some running when we street hunted before but now this is just frustration to the point of almost unplayable for toons with no range or holds! Also, how the hell am I supposed to give Castle data? this makes no sence, all i can tell you Castle is what I observe in my missions, and this is without taunt things please fix!
50 EM / SR Stalker
50 Spines / Regen Stalker
50 Claws / SR Stalker
50 DM / DA Stalker
42 DM / EA Stalker
40 Nin / Nin Stalker