Something is wrong
Last night, with my 30 Ice/Fire I was noticing some Tuatha and Fir Bolg Lts and bosses running at or below 50% health in Croat. Of course, they were slowed a bit from CE so I still got them I would lean toward it being a change in AI, but if true, I would find the lack of disclosure disconcerting.
Cheers
[B] GUARDIAN 50s:[/B] [B]Tank[/B]: Ice/Fire, Fire/Fire, DA/SS, Inv/WM, SD/Elec...[B]Scrap[/B]: BS/Reg, Spin/DA, DM/SD, Fire/WP, Claws/SR....[B]Troller[/B]: Ill/Rad, Fire/Kin...[B]Blaster[/B]: Fire/EM....[B]Defender[/B]: D3...[B]Brute[/B]: Elm/ElA...[B]EPIC[/B]: Widow, PB, Crab...CURRENTLY: 45 Stone/Stone Tank...38 AR/Rad Corr...21 Ice^3 Dom
I noticed this playing my Fire/Axe last night. I was not using Burn. I had the same experience as Wings. The mobs would stop running away when I used Taunt.
I can't say if this is happening on the COV side. The characters I have been playing there can root mobs. I can test it out this weekend.
**Guardian is the cookie capital of CoX!**
50 Fire/Rad Corruptor ~ 50 Dark/Rad Corruptor ~ 50 Rad/Dark Corruptor ~ 50 EM/Elec Brute ~ 45 Mind/Psi Dominator
Many Villains under 40. All of my Heroes are retired.
Not that this is the forum for it, but I noticed the same effect on my Brute. Given that brute attacks have single target taunt built in (plus I run the aggro aura), it is a comparable situation. Minions don't tend to run much, but lieuts and bosses will high tail it away if they are getting low in HP. If I didn't have AS, I would really be hating life.
Too many alts to list.
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I've found that once a certain portion of a mob is down a NPC runs. This also happens if the overall HP of a mob is low.
I'm betting they changed the AI and didn't tell us. Probably so that we wouldn't affect their experiment. Essentially is a double blind experiment, since we dont know, and they gather their data through datamining.
IF this is the case? Meh who cares, its annoying sure but i've been saved several times because an NPC ran instead of attacking me when I was close to death.
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That's not a double-blind experiment at all. That's a single-blind. Because the people conducting the study knew exactly what was going on.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Poster: Aett_Thorn
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That's not a double-blind experiment at all. That's a single-blind. Because the people conducting the study knew exactly what was going on.
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Not to be Negative but I'm going with dbl blind here hehehehehe
(Virtue/Champion) Neil Fracas: Inv/SS
(Virtue) Gideon Fontaine: MA/SR (Sc), Generic Hero 114: Ice/Cold, Marcus Tyler AR/En, Project F: Spines/DA (S)
(Champion) Jenna Sidal BS/SD, Generic Hero 114: En/En (Bl), Loganne Claws/WP (Sc)
Heck, I noticed it fighting Council on my Warshade in Nova form; glad I had ranged blasts, half the fights I was finishing my blasts were chasing runners around the corner. A month or two ago when I was briefly playing my rad defender I noticed more anchor running then I did on the way to 50.
I think in response to people asking for "improvements to AI to make fights more challenging instead of nerfing powers" the AI folks may have been tinkering with things slowly and steadily over the last 6 months or so. And I've never (aside from the one AV mention) seen an AI change discussed in patch notes, I think thats considered "back end" code changes rather than a specific power change.
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I've found that once a certain portion of a mob is down a NPC runs. This also happens if the overall HP of a mob is low.
I'm betting they changed the AI and didn't tell us. Probably so that we wouldn't affect their experiment. Essentially is a double blind experiment, since we dont know, and they gather their data through datamining.
IF this is the case? Meh who cares, its annoying sure but i've been saved several times because an NPC ran instead of attacking me when I was close to death.
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That's not a double-blind experiment at all. That's a single-blind. Because the people conducting the study knew exactly what was going on.
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Of course they knew... If they didn't how could they conduct the experiment?
To blind a subject you simply don't inform him of the experiment.
To blind a experimenter you randomize their data collection. You make it anonymous so that when the Dev looks at the data he doesn't see names, he sees numbers...
Meh, High School Biology FTW...
All in all, I wouldn't put it past them but maybe I am giving them too much credit. Still think its a deliberate change though...>.<
Well I 've been running on my 50 tank in groups. It's like I have the normal aggro effect of every other AT. Tried it without Invinc to check it. Basically anything breaks it...'Keeping aggro' seems to have been not working as intended...
I've since teamed with various tanks of different levels..Fire and Inv. in particular.
We all are feeling this..well..lack of gauntlet. So yea..I'm irked. Glad to know I'm not alone in this.
Pinnacle & Virtue:
A bunch of Heroes - Alpha Team, Legion of Order.
A bunch of Villains -Black Citadel , Pinnache.
scrappers and khels are able to take "agro" from invincibility, blazing aura, and tanker melee by simply attacking. I'm looking at it right now. the mobs are in range and being hit by the aura. Taunt, the power, still pulls agro (though I've seen instances lately where taunt didn't pull agro).
borked
AI critters have always 'cut and run' if they consider themselves unable to win an encounter. The behavior you describe is consistent with that condition.
It is not impossible that the AI is flipping to 'run away' mode too easily for some reason. Reading Aett_Thorns post, it does not sound like this is the case, but if you can get some solid data to back it up it'd definitely be worth looking into.
Woot! Referenced by a Redname. I feel honored!
edit -> also, thanks for clarifying that and for continuing to pay attention to tanker issues _Castle_! We really appreciate it!
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Best bet is Gauntlet now has a fear effect added to it......
Course I'm a tad cynical these days
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Or a variation... Now that Gauntlet has a ToHit roll, it's allowing the 'I'm low on health and must flee' mob AI to kick in when there actually is a miss.
We don' need no stinkin' signatures!
Kudos to Castle on keeping tabs on our issues
I think 2 separate issues were raised in here, unless I muddled it. The Cut and Run and what I experienced. Namely, Gauntlet's to-hit roll, possibly being too sparse for gameplay, in that teammates break aggro from the tank and onto themselves.
Hopefully testing may prove that the numbers are not as intended..and our ability to prevent aggro being taken by team members should not be as frequent as it is now.
Pinnacle & Virtue:
A bunch of Heroes - Alpha Team, Legion of Order.
A bunch of Villains -Black Citadel , Pinnache.
Was running a mission in Port Oakes with my lvl 15 Inv/SS Brute (i.e., NO Invincibility). It didn't take much more than one or two hits to have +1 LT Mooks with at least 2/3rds health REMAINING from running all over the place! It was like it was nearing supper time, they were a chicken, and I was some guy with an appetite and an axe.
I thought it was bizarre behavior for Mooks, but I'm sure its related.
Freak bosses seem to run away with some regularity. Myself and 2 otehr people were fighting +3 freaks in Brickstown. I got the freak about a 1/4 down on health and he took off running and not the I want to get into range and fire at you running the .... I was able to kill the minion and lt with him and attack another group of +2 before he showed back up again running. Its extremely hard to track down runners like that especially if there's other mobs involved.
ive also seen this.....i think this was added in this last patch without warning... gotta love when they say.. its not broken , it was changed. i think this is also due to the troller nerfs and now no one gains aggro anymore. gotta love them new issues with stuff they dont tell you about.
and any dev says that there was no change is just plain lying . because it is wayyyyyy obvious that it was. its almost not even funny.
40 50s so far.
if you dont like me....i dont really care.
respect is earned , never given
Last night on my stone tanker I noticed this strange behavior on missions as well. I play my tankers everyday and there is definitely something amiss.
Juzam
Tanker aficionado
Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way.
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Was running a mission in Port Oakes with my lvl 15 Inv/SS Brute (i.e., NO Invincibility). It didn't take much more than one or two hits to have +1 LT Mooks with at least 2/3rds health REMAINING from running all over the place! It was like it was nearing supper time, they were a chicken, and I was some guy with an appetite and an axe.
I thought it was bizarre behavior for Mooks, but I'm sure its related.
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If those were mook sharpshooters (or whatever their snipers are called), they've done this for a while. They do it in missions as well. It's annoying, but firs with the flavor of the mob. However, getting a warehouse full of these guys is a PITA though, as they don't stop running forever.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
The run AI may be getting triggered by other factors besides damage: debuffs, how many times it has missed in a row, how powerful your attacks are compared to it's own, how many of it's allies you have dropped.
Also, enemies may be able to 'sense' when they are targeted and keep running based on that, if they are already running. Normal runners run as long as they can see the guy who made them run.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
I am see thing as well even at the first 5 lvls. I was playing my lvl 8 MA/DA scrapper, last night he was lvl 3, and I was fighting a lvl 4 LT. After I got him down to about 1/2 HP, he takes off.
Meh, after reading Castle's statement...
My mind is changed... AI is just off...
How can we test this though? Will the devs tell us how the AI is suppose to be with enough exactitude that we can make a comparison? What is the exact trigger for running for a mob at each increase of lvl and mob size?
Hard to test something if you can't compare it to something else.
Castle, Without any reservation at all, something is very different. I was running missions the day before the patch and missions right after the servers came back with the patch, I am seeing LTs and Bosses really run away...and far in some cases. In one example, a Council LT ran away, I ignored him and continued to beat on the minions. He then ran right by me and kept going in the other direction. I paused my combat to shoot him a taunt and he never flinched....just kept running. I later found him standing around about 40 feet from his original position as if it was where he should be.
Another example was a named CoT boss. He took off in the sewers and I never saw him again until I went looking for him. Lucky for him I was pretty busy with his 2 LTs to worry about it at the time.
It is not a question of being new or different...it is absolutely different....the real question(s) is 1) Is there a non-noted change? 2) Is this an intended reaction? and 3) Why in the world would you make a boss or lt run away like that from a melee AT with taunt enhancements in his aura and has to spam Taunt to keep the bugger in the visible area?
Overwhelming evidence this has changed. Please just acknowledge this and begin reviewing it for an error or just tell me this ridiculous change is intended so I can shelf the tank once again, because I have no interest in chasing down bad guys when I have no immobs or holds.
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Castle, Without any reservation at all, something is very different. I was running missions the day before the patch and missions right after the servers came back with the patch, I am seeing LTs and Bosses really run away...and far in some cases.
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My missions were in Croatoa last evening. While inside a cave complex fighting Firbolgs the Lts. were indeed running away multiple times. A few times all the way down a winding corridor. Our scrapper chased most of them down and dispatched but still I have never seen this before. Never have I had mobs run from my Mud pot slinging, punchvoke hammering Stone tanker. There is totally something wrong at the moment and no further testing is needed by the player base. Please fix this problem!
Juzam
Tanker aficionado
Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way.
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AI critters have always 'cut and run' if they consider themselves unable to win an encounter. The behavior you describe is consistent with that condition.
It is not impossible that the AI is flipping to 'run away' mode too easily for some reason. Reading Aett_Thorns post, it does not sound like this is the case, but if you can get some solid data to back it up it'd definitely be worth looking into.
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castle, if your trying to make the AI more human like, think about this. Your a minion (got a nice bonus) in evil organization X. These heroes charge in, beat your boss (who could crush your skull in 2 seconds) to a bloody pulp with axes, fire and radiation (*cough, arrest, cough*), and you will still fight them?
why wait? Run like the PPD of old! Run OUT of the building.
But with so many defeat all missions, this realistic behavior isnt fun. Just a thought.
50 Tanks: Invul/ss, Fire/ice/fire, Ice/em, Stone/fire
WP/Stone, dark/dark, shld/mace
50 Other: WS, SS/dark/sc brute, BS/Regen/WM scrpr, fire/fire/force blaster, rad/kin corr, mind/rad ctrl, ill/storm cntrl
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I'm betting they changed the AI and didn't tell us. Probably so that we wouldn't affect their experiment. Essentially is a double blind experiment, since we dont know, and they gather their data through datamining.
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I think you give them to much credit. And if your theory is true then this is just another example of under-handed changes by the devs. Not informing your PAYING customer base of changes is dirty pool.
I'm still leaning toward the its a bug theory.
Juzam
Tanker aficionado
Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way.