Should Siphon Speed (kinetics) be AoE?
By
Akuma_Hellkite,
Posted on: 2006-10-16 11:25 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I would say NO.
Kin defenders are very good at low levels. Transfusion, Siphon Power alone will turn the tide of most battles. The trick with Kinetics is to get close to melee for all of the buffage.
Transfusion, Siphon Power, Increase Density, Speed Boost are all received by level 12 and very useful for teams.
-Teklord
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with no stacking of the buff on the hero/villain
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That is the main reason a lot of people use it, to stack it for the double buff.
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That is the main reason a lot of people use it, to stack it for the double buff.
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I meant it wouldn't stack with itself from 1 use, like fulcrum shift with the layered buffing by being in radius of the user and in radius of the targets.
It wouldn't change Siphon speed stacking on top of already present siphon speed buff effects just like it does now, just not mulitple effects all at once if the slow debuff was changed to an AoE.
I consider this unlikely, as Kinetics is not a weak set, but nor do I think making the slow/-recharge aspect a small AoE would make the set overpowering. As it would not increase the buff aspect, it would be a fairly small change. However, with the change being that small and there being no real problem to address, I have to question why the developers would bother.
I would vote against this type of change. Kinetics is fine the way it is. Having played more that 200 levels of kinetics I am very pleased with it.
-Teklord
I think it would be a bit too powerful, and too limiting with your restrictions.
Right now, with SO's and aggressive slotting, I can stack 3 Siphons (for a very short period), and usually have 2 on them. That's a potent debuff for both speed and recharge.
Making it AOE, even limiting it to say 5 targets, would mean that I have essentially hit 5 (or more) targets with that debuff.
Consider Lingering Radiation from Rad - this would turn SS into a similar power, but with a +Speed and +Recharge instead of -Regen, but signifcantly sooner and with lower costs attached.
-- War
When theorizing about making major changes to kinetics, I usually focus on two things -- siphon speed and inertial reduction.
If I were elected dictator, I'd move IR with no changes substantially earlier in the power list, probably to where siphon speed is now. I like IR, and moving it early would make it even more useful.
If Siphon Speed got pushed back to IR's slot, it would need some oomph added -- AOE debuff, AOE buff, or both. AOE speed debuff would probably be over the top, especially if it gave self-stacking buffs like FS. But it would be awesome to supercharge your team with a combo of FS and SS!
Hazel Black - Mind/Psi D
Stephanie Winters - Nightwidow
Jacqui Frost - Cold/Ice D
Jacqui Embers - Fire/Kin C
Simone Templar - Fire/MM B
Mallory Woods - Kin/Rad D
Sanguine Melody - Grav/Sonic C
Fumina Hara - Plant/Storm C
Nutmeg - Warshade
Lauren Wu - SS/WP B
Kin is an extremely good set as-is, throughout its career. It needs no changes. Do not draw the developer eye to Kin.
Please try MA arc ID 351455, "Shard Stories: Scavenger's Hunt." Originally created for the Dr. Aeon contest, it explores the wild potential of one of the City's most concept-rich but content-poor settings: the Shadow Shard.
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Kin is an extremely good set as-is, throughout its career. It needs no changes. Do not draw the developer eye to Kin.
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QFE odds are if the Devs actually take notice of posts like this and take a look at Kin, its gonna get nerfed.
You know, I read posts like that all the time and it has really started irking me. Just because a set is integrally well balanced and, because of that, runs smoothly and becomes "FOTM" or receives a lot of attention on the boards does not mean that is is nerf-bait.
Some sets have been, in the past, over the top easy - i3/4 regen (as much as I hate to admit) - and deserve to be knocked down a notch or two. Kinetics on the other hand, does not go above and beyond the other Defender primaries. But, on it's own, is a very solid set.
Contrary to popular belief, the devs are not constantly on a nerf hunt seeking out the next set to slaughter. They are monitoring all sets to see if one stands out more than others and does things beyond their original concept. If it does, they research it and see if it is exploitable or overly unbalancing. If it is they tone it down - or nerf it, if it isn't then they leave it as it is and give the players a nod for working out a strategy that they didn't think of.
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Kin is an extremely good set as-is, throughout its career. It needs no changes. Do not draw the developer eye to Kin.
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QFE odds are if the Devs actually take notice of posts like this and take a look at Kin, its gonna get nerfed.
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I've looked at Kinetics a lot. There are no plans to change it at this time.
Yay! Kinetics rocks just as it is, in my opinion.
ya if this worst thing in this set I ever have to do is keep someone SB'd ...Ill take it. Its worth the hassle.
If ANYTHING in the Kinetics set needs looked at, it's Transfusion (first power in the set). A heal that requires a hit AND requires the MOB not to die AND requires the person you're trying to heal to stay in the small radius can get annoying. Plus, the -regen it provides could be a bit longer lasting.
To be honest though, there are plenty of other sets that could be looked at well before Kinetics.
I like Transfusion. There are tradeoffs for everything: yes, you need to hit, but in exchange you get a HUGE AoE heal. And the radius is big enough to cover the entire melee area of your average group of mobs.
I believe the "mob can't die during the activation" issue is well known, but was determined to be very difficult to fix given the limitations of the game engine. In other words, I think it's been looked at, and was given a "ouch, sorry, can't help ya" 
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Kin is an extremely good set as-is, throughout its career. It needs no changes. Do not draw the developer eye to Kin.
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QFE odds are if the Devs actually take notice of posts like this and take a look at Kin, its gonna get nerfed.
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I've looked at Kinetics a lot. There are no plans to change it at this time.
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Stupid Repel.
Could you look at devices please if you aren't going to change Repel?
And there lies the reason my Taxibot has the Medicine pool. ::thinks of all the grumbling of the Transfusion target dying a microsecond too early:: >.>;
-- Lady T
I don't have an alt problem. I like trying new things.
VirtueVerse ♦ City Info Tracker ♦ ParagonWiki
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Kin is an extremely good set as-is, throughout its career. It needs no changes. Do not draw the developer eye to Kin.
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QFE odds are if the Devs actually take notice of posts like this and take a look at Kin, its gonna get nerfed.
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I've looked at Kinetics a lot. There are no plans to change it at this time.
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Castle, any chance of revisiting the "bug" that causes transfusion to fail if the target dies? I remember awhile back this was explained in detail, and I think it basically wound up as "there isn't anything we can do about it". Is this still an accurate assessment? Any chance that transfusion can be adjusted to compensate for this; such as a greater heal, lower end cost, or shorter recharge? Having just started playing a kinetics controller I've come to see just how often this problem really happens -- and it's alot, sometimes as much as half the time. Even when one is aware of it, it's still sometimes very difficult to pick a good target, especially on a large team.
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Kin is an extremely good set as-is, throughout its career. It needs no changes. Do not draw the developer eye to Kin.
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QFE odds are if the Devs actually take notice of posts like this and take a look at Kin, its gonna get nerfed.
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I've looked at Kinetics a lot. There are no plans to change it at this time.
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I do see one needed change to make it more melee centered. Inertial reduction should give at least the caster knockdown, knockback resistance. It is hard to take advantage of Fulcrum shift when you get knocked back before you even get your buffs.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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Castle, any chance of revisiting the "bug" that causes transfusion to fail if the target dies?
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QFT, seconded, /signed, and whatever else you want a self-professed Kinetics junkie to say about this.
It also does the same thing on Transferrence and on the non-Caster parts of Fulcrum Shift. You always get the double-strength FS Buff around the caster, but can miss out on all the buffs/debuffs around the dead target. Can we at least get FS to target everything upon casting, like Fireball would, so even if the primary target goes away the ones still standing will be hit.
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Kin is an extremely good set as-is, throughout its career. It needs no changes. Do not draw the developer eye to Kin.
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QFE odds are if the Devs actually take notice of posts like this and take a look at Kin, its gonna get nerfed.
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I've looked at Kinetics a lot. There are no plans to change it at this time.
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Thanks since Kinetics became my refuge after the I5/6 INV nerf fest. More Nerfs here would push me out the door.
So i am very glad to see and releaved to hear this. Of course i have heard "working fine before" then a power set gets worked on so i will be keeping my eye open.
Funny i never used to think this way or worry about this till last August.
Pinnacle
Arch light L50 INV/SS
Psiberia L50 Kin/Psi
Screaming Mentallica L50 Sonic/MM
Infinity
Arc Voltinator L50 SS/Elec
Mind Fire Kinesis L50 Fire/Kin
Flaming Screamer L50 Fire/Sonic
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I've looked at Kinetics a lot.
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The Not-So believable Part:[ QUOTE ]
There are no plans to change it at this time.
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"at this time" being the most worrisome part of that...
Just remember that there's a long list of Powers/Sets "breaking the game" worse than Kinetics:
(or in some cases, break the game worse when combined with Kinetics)
-Rad Emission
-Will Domination
-Fire pImPz0Rz
-HotFeet
-Energy Manipulation
-Bitter Ice Blast
-Impale
-Clear Mind
-SuperJump
-Quick Recovery
-Headsplitter
-Buildup + Aim
-Focussed Accuracy
-Fireball
-Spine Burst
-Psionic Mastery('troller version)
-Stamina
-Energy Absorption
-Granite Armor
-Energy Transfer
-Singularity
-Spectral Terror
-Siren's Song
-Aid Self
-Placate
-Ninjitsu
-Thugs
-Tar Patch
-Integration
-Energy melee
-Recharge discounts on Boss-Class Mobs.
-LT, Boss, EB, and AV Psi-Damage #'s
-Arch-Villain & Hero burst damage / attack chains.
Sooo yeah... Any nerfs to Kinetics better be preceeded by changes to ALL of those things first.
...which we know will never, ever happen.
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Kin is an extremely good set as-is, throughout its career. It needs no changes. Do not draw the developer eye to Kin.
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QFE odds are if the Devs actually take notice of posts like this and take a look at Kin, its gonna get nerfed.
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I've looked at Kinetics a lot. There are no plans to change it at this time.
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Read my lips "No New Nerfs!" to kenetics.
Sorry sorry
First, yes kinetics is a great set, it takes many more levels then other sets to really get to the meat of what it can do, but its a fine set.
What I am asking is if Siphon speed were made into a AoE power, with no stacking of the buff on the hero/villain, just the debuff effect on targets in the AoE radius would that be overpowering or require a significant increase in the recharge or endurance cost or lowering of magnitude or duration of this power. It's not auto-hit like many debuff effects from say Dark, Rad, storm, or corruptor Cold. So I think it wouldn't be imbalancing. But with a change like this I think kinetics defenders/corruptors/controllers would be able to contribute alot more in teams in the early to mid game as they would have at least one siginifcant debuff to throw in fights.