"Toons"... are we playing Loony Toons?

[ QUOTE ]
I've heard people call them that. I just dismiss it. I say "characters". If people are too bloody lazy to type "characters" rather than "toons", say "chars", for goodness sake!

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt it's a matter of being lazy =\ it's more of like what ur accustomed to.

Its the same thing as people refer to powers as different things. Moves, spells, powers, abilities. None of these are wrong or right, just different based on each players experiences. Someone that plays CoX and also plays mean fighting games like Street-fighter, Mortal Combat, etc..might refer to them as moves, manuvers, etc.. While someone coming from playing fantasy games might refer to them as spells.

No right or wrong just based on each persons background and the slang they have become used to.

[ QUOTE ]


I use "hero" or "villain" seeing as how that is exactly what they are...

[/ QUOTE ]

Works for me.

I typed "Character" each time for the first few weeks I played the game. However, back when I started, I distinctly remember a lot more people using the word "Toon" to reffer to their Heroes, so I sorta adopted it myself.

I call them toons, and I don't see why that should bother anyone. To each his own, and if you're really annoyed by something trivial like that, you're probably no fun to be around anyways.

[ QUOTE ]
. . . To each his own, and if you're really annoyed by something trivial like that, you're probably no fun to be around anyways.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, because nobody's ever bothered by something that (admittedly) isn't really earth-shattering, and it doesn't happen often enough to justify a specific term for that sort of thing.

Seriously, guys, that's why they're called pet peeves. There's nothing wrong with calling 'em toons, but until I see you pull out a gigantic mallet, a portable hole or a humorous anvil, it's going to make my brain itch whenever you do. I just don't say anything because, seriously, it's not that important.

And I think that's pretty much everyone's stance on it, which is why I don't get why these "lighten up" comments keep popping up.

- Laurentide

Let's all just call them avatars then...

We all know what somebody means when they say toon, character, hero, villains etc. If you dont know, well you'll learn soon enough!

Since the execution of both the character and the story are paramount and execution of said story is evoked through the medium of internet gameplay as a sort of virtual performance art, I've decided to call mine a "thespian's ongoing online novella".

Since that's so long, I'll just abbreviate it to T.O.O.N. and assume everyone who's anyone knows what I mean.

[ QUOTE ]
All kidding aside, it baffles me every time I see someone refer to their character as their "toon"... Maybe it's because I'm a P&P RPGer and not a video gamer, but where in the heck did that originate? I think it sounds pretty silly.

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

I use the term character my self...because the term toon or alt i feel like it lets others know you could care less.

I take pride in my characters...

I am surprised you have not noticed people saying the other idiotic phrase.. "I rolled up..." as in "I rolled up a toon last night" or "i rolled another alt last night"

I like the terms generated or created.
Since in no way did i roll dice or create a random character...since this game does not have that feature.

But with such a culture as the human race's throw away mentality...and how it has gotten worse over the years...i am not surprised by the term toon or alt.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
All kidding aside, it baffles me every time I see someone refer to their character as their "toon"... Maybe it's because I'm a P&P RPGer and not a video gamer, but where in the heck did that originate? I think it sounds pretty silly.

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

I use the term character my self...because the term toon or alt i feel like it lets others know you could care less.

I take pride in my characters...

I am surprised you have not noticed people saying the other idiotic phrase.. "I rolled up..." as in "I rolled up a toon last night" or "i rolled another alt last night"

I like the terms generated or created.
Since in no way did i roll dice or create a random character...since this game does not have that feature.

But with such a culture as the human race's throw away mentality...and how it has gotten worse over the years...i am not surprised by the term toon or alt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rolled up isn't on the same level as toon. Toon has Loony Toons conotations, rolled up has D&D conotations. And D&D would have more deep characters than Bugs Bunny.

I just dislike toon because it trivilises the character. I spend a lot of times on my theme, power selections and costume. Calling it a cartoon demeans it.

[ QUOTE ]
All kidding aside, it baffles me every time I see someone refer to their character as their "toon"... Maybe it's because I'm a P&P RPGer and not a video gamer, but where in the heck did that originate? I think it sounds pretty silly.

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel the phrase "roll up a new <insert prefered title>" is a dumb phrase to be used in reference to a VG. But I live with it.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
All kidding aside, it baffles me every time I see someone refer to their character as their "toon"... Maybe it's because I'm a P&P RPGer and not a video gamer, but where in the heck did that originate? I think it sounds pretty silly.

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

I use the term character my self...because the term toon or alt i feel like it lets others know you could care less.

I take pride in my characters...

I am surprised you have not noticed people saying the other idiotic phrase.. "I rolled up..." as in "I rolled up a toon last night" or "i rolled another alt last night"

I like the terms generated or created.
Since in no way did i roll dice or create a random character...since this game does not have that feature.

But with such a culture as the human race's throw away mentality...and how it has gotten worse over the years...i am not surprised by the term toon or alt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rolled up isn't on the same level as toon. Toon has Loony Toons conotations, rolled up has D&D conotations. And D&D would have more deep characters than Bugs Bunny.

I just dislike toon because it trivilises the character. I spend a lot of times on my theme, power selections and costume. Calling it a cartoon demeans it.

[/ QUOTE ]

i can understand that. my first MMO was EQ.. and i had/have characters there. then i got CoH... and after 2 years of playing and making/deleting around 200 toons they are no longer true characters.

i have PnP D&D characters i have played for years and years. but once i saw that most MMO "characters" follow some kind of cookie cutter mold... they just turned into toons... animated characters that are set in a universe where the "normal" laws do not apply.

but if you must call them characters feel free. but some of us will call them toons. some will have other names.

i for one hate the saying " i rolled..." when reffering to "characters" on a MMO. over 20 years of D&D makes me miss my dice at times...

[ QUOTE ]
I use both terms, they mean the same to me. It's not like we don't know what the other is refering too when either term is used, they both serve the same purpose in conversation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree.

From what I can tell, there are two terms you can use. character and toon. The word character leads to a certain end - that everyone knows what you're talking about. That's pretty much all it leads to.

Toon, on the other hand, has a slightly different effect. It clearly annoys many people. It clearly makes some people think less of you for various reasons that don't really matter. It gets the point across as well, but it does appear (and you can tell with threads like this) to have other effects as well.



So... in choosing your words, perhaps the intent just doesn't matter sometimes. Sometimes the effect of words is more important than the intent, because the entire point of language is to express a point - a point that is supposed to carry with it certain connotations. And I think the people using the word "toon" are simply not expressing themselves well. Because the words they use carry connotations that I don't think they intend, therefore they are choosing the WRONG words.


For some audiences, I'm sure it's fine. But there seem to be a decent amount of people who don't respond well to the term. You can rationalize wanting to use the word all you want, but eventually you really need to look at the FUNCTION of a debated word. It doesn't matter if you agree with it. Your agreement over whether or not people SHOULD get upset over the word toon has no effect whatsoever on the reality that they do.

Zeus - god of function over form. At times.

Oh... one more thing... I think the reason people don't like the word toon is quite simple. Because it does NOT connotate animated characters. It implies childish animated characters.

Take anime for example. It has developed it's own language and culture. Why not just adopt the word "cartoon" or "japaneese cartoon" instead of anime? Because the word cartoon simply doesn't fit. Yes, they are animated. However, there is a qualitative difference between warner brothers and anime. There is a difference in artistic style, and this is a big enough difference to be obvious to everyone.

Essentially, cartoons are commonly thought of as referring to animated drawings designed for children. If it's not designed for children, often other nomenclature is used. So... those people who don't like the word "toon".... aren't just having a stick up their respective butts. They simply think you're demeaning and insulting the game they enjoy, and don't care for it.




Oh... and just for the heck of it I looked up the word "cartoon"... and what I suspected is correct. It has nothing to do with animation. Actually those are called "animated cartoons". A cartoon is merely an unrealistic drawing - it has nothing to do with animation of any sort. The difference between a drawing and a cartoon seems to be of exaggeration and unrealistic style... caricature is often associated with it in the various definitions, as is humorous satire. And I'm not sure that CoH would qualify as even 'animated cartoon' since it is not based upon a lack of reality... in fact, just the opposite. I think WoW would qualify however. The characters themselves are merely caricatures, after all. (with the exception of the females, it's hard to make a caricature hot)

Zeus - god of disillusionment

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I use both terms, they mean the same to me. It's not like we don't know what the other is refering too when either term is used, they both serve the same purpose in conversation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree.

From what I can tell, there are two terms you can use. character and toon. The word character leads to a certain end - that everyone knows what you're talking about. That's pretty much all it leads to.

Toon, on the other hand, has a slightly different effect. It clearly annoys many people. It clearly makes some people think less of you for various reasons that don't really matter. It gets the point across as well, but it does appear (and you can tell with threads like this) to have other effects as well.



So... in choosing your words, perhaps the intent just doesn't matter sometimes. Sometimes the effect of words is more important than the intent, because the entire point of language is to express a point - a point that is supposed to carry with it certain connotations. And I think the people using the word "toon" are simply not expressing themselves well. Because the words they use carry connotations that I don't think they intend, therefore they are choosing the WRONG words.


For some audiences, I'm sure it's fine. But there seem to be a decent amount of people who don't respond well to the term. You can rationalize wanting to use the word all you want, but eventually you really need to look at the FUNCTION of a debated word. It doesn't matter if you agree with it. Your agreement over whether or not people SHOULD get upset over the word toon has no effect whatsoever on the reality that they do.

Zeus - god of function over form. At times.

[/ QUOTE ]

interesting points.. but... if i say that all people who use the term "character" to refer to the creation on CoX are stuck up jerks then i am sure i would offend people.

take a look at this.

the correct term for automobile is also called a car, vehicle (which might be said to be more correct), ride, horseless carriage, or mechanical horse. which do you call it? does it matter? will it change the shape and way the automobile is used or how it works? can a word physically change something? each name produces a different mental picture and THAT is what people have a problem with.

i see bugs bunny takeout a bat from nowhere and hit elmer fudd. i see a scrapper take out a sword from nowhere and whack a person throwing fire from his hamds. CoX is more cartoonish then the other MMOs i have played. where does the axe tanker keep his axe? where does that scrapper keep that sword? and that mace.. looks painful.

the words i say conjure images in my mind. will they conjure the same images in your mind? i doubt it. if you have ever run a PnP RPG you would know you have to put in alot of detail most times to get a clear picture across. an avatar to me is the earthly incarnation of a god. so i hate that word used as it normally is on these places. do i get my knickers all in a wad over it? no. its a word. words change in meaning and use.

But you're ignoring a very obvious point... and you seem like you even know you're ignoring it.

Yes.... a car has many names. Most things in the english language do. But calling a car various things doesn't irritate the hell out of a lot of people. You know that. I know that. It's common knowledge.

Yes, words conjure different things in different minds. But in this case... we KNOW what images these words conjure in various minds, so why act like we don't? It's one thing to use a word that annoys people when you don't know it annoys people... but in this case, use the word toon and you know damned well what the effect is. It doesn't matter if these people are stuck up jerks... although I give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not going go to that sort of asinine leap of illogic. It doesn't matter if there is something wrong with them instead of you. (although it is much easier if we always pass the blame for problems we encounter).

The simple fact of the matter is.. if you use the word toon, you are using a word that you KNOW has certain effects. If you don't want those effects (not conveying your point effectively, insulting the game, annoying some people) then simply don't use the word.



Oh... and I agree with you on the word avatar. It's more appropriate than toon, but I still dont' care for the term. I can understand the idea behind it... the users are like onto gods as far as the play world goes (like the movie tron) so these characters are indeed the avatars that explore the world for us. That's the explanation... But I don't really feel the need to think of myself as a god in reality. On the other hand, it is more accurate of a word, and has less negative connotations than calling all characters toons, essentially saying they're caricatures.

Zeus - god of exaggerations

OK, I could point out the person who has 'god of ...' after every post saying he doesn't need to think of himself as a god in reality.... (I'm poking fun is all )

People react and treat each other in different ways all the time simply because of the way they talk. People respond to accents, phrases (y'know, y'all, etc), postures, clothing, physical attributes and more.

You're never going to stop people from judging people. It's what we do every day. Using certain words like 'toon' is just another thing that people judge the way they want. I don't like it myself, but I'm not going to shun the person for it, the same way I wouldn't shun them for saying 'y'know' after every sentence (which can be REALLY annoying).

In fact, if everyone talked the same and acted the same the world would be really boring. After all, I'm not attracted to people who are like me in every way - I like the differences as well. I like excitement.

(Of course, you'd be hard pressed to find someone like me - as my SG will happily tell you.)

Actually, the game DOES have a randomizing feature. Check the initial costume designer! You can randomize both the costume itself and the scaling grids. So Bleh!

I have to admit, the "TOON" nomenclature bothers me quite a bit. However, I can see why some people would latch on to it. People who started with pnp games typically use Character, people who started with online games typically use toon. Me, I just refer to my guys as my guys!

"Hey! I Started a new guy last night. Ice/Storm Controller. He really kicks Ice!"

"Blleh, thats a FOTM toon if I ever saw one!"

"Fine, step into the Arena."

*****************************************

"Toon" doesn't make sense unless we're playing a Bugs Bunny MMO. What is it short for?

I only use it to annoy Soonmot because it seems to make his blood boil.

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, guys, that's why they're called pet peeves. There's nothing wrong with calling 'em toons, but until I see you pull out a gigantic mallet, a portable hole or a humorous anvil, it's going to make my brain itch whenever you do.

[/ QUOTE ]

So Space Ghost, Speed Racer, Batman Beyond, Justice League, Teen Titans, X-Men and other CARTOON characters are not toons?

[ QUOTE ]
Take anime for example. It has developed it's own language and culture. Why not just adopt the word "cartoon" or "japaneese cartoon" instead of anime? Because the word cartoon simply doesn't fit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, and action figures aren't dolls ::rollseyes::

Anime is just a name someone came up with so they didn't feel so stupid about watching cartoons. A cartoon is a cartoon is a cartoon no matter what you want to call it.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Take anime for example. It has developed it's own language and culture. Why not just adopt the word "cartoon" or "japaneese cartoon" instead of anime? Because the word cartoon simply doesn't fit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, and action figures aren't dolls ::rollseyes::

Anime is just a name someone came up with so they didn't feel so stupid about watching cartoons. A cartoon is a cartoon is a cartoon no matter what you want to call it.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I"m talking about QUALITATIVE differences. It doesn't matter if you presonally approve of WHY they came up with a new name for it. People came up with a new name for it for a reason. If the world was filled only with you, then sure, you can dismiss that. But since that's not the case, perhaps we'd best just stick to admitting that we live in a world filled with other people. And unless everytime you speak, you're talking only to yourself, these "other people" of which I speak are the target audience for the words you choose.



And you may want to keep reading the post... because no.. speed racer isn't a cartoon. It's an animated cartoon. A cartoon is a still image. An exaggerated caricature to be precise. And I'd definately consider anime to be exaggerated caricatures, with the disproportionate features of the images. An animated cartoon is an animated form of that.

So to be fair, perhaps it would be a "toon"... or rather, some mmos could rightly be called an "animated toon". but if you're going to shorten cartoon, I suppose you'll shorten "animated" as well, so "ani toon". And that's of course only for those mmos that actually use caricatures, such as world of warcraft. For the rest of the MMOs, which are the vast majority of them, that have realistic animation and characters, well, they're not really even animated cartoons, because they're not cartoons at all.

Zeus - god of reading

I think people getting upset over hearing the term toon just need to get over themselves. It's something they don't like...deal with it. Just because you played PnP and MUD's doesn't entitle you ownership to jargon on the internet.

My Grandpa never used the term "bling" for the jewelry he bought for my Grandma in the 50's, but It's damn sure a term nowadays ain't it? (and he's probably just as bitter to people saying it)

Bottom line is, it's a term. On the internet. I've never used it in a sentence and had someone say "what's a toon?" ever.

[ QUOTE ]

My Grandpa never used the term "bling" for the jewelry he bought for my Grandma in the 50's, but It's damn sure a term nowadays ain't it? (and he's probably just as bitter to people saying it)

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I hate the term 'bling' as well. I thought it was the sound a lift made when it reaches a floor its stopping at.

Having an opinion on something is fine. It's when someone goes up to a person that just said the word toon(bling), and telling him in his face he shouldn't be saying it, he should be saying character(money), seems close minded and arrogant.

[ QUOTE ]
my characters in PnP RPGs could pick up anything they could carry. they could carry a rope, a bucket, a small child (with injury of course), and were mine to control in every way shape and form.

[/ QUOTE ]
My favorite is still the one from the HERO system rulesbook, section on throwing things: a struggling duck.