"Toons"... are we playing Loony Toons?
By
8Seconds,
Posted on: 2006-09-22 10:36 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Rolled up isn't on the same level as toon. Toon has Loony Toons conotations, rolled up has D&D conotations. And D&D would have more deep characters than Bugs Bunny.
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OY! Don't you dare slam on Bugs Bunny! He's much deeper than a LOT of D&D characters I've seen. 
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Having an opinion on something is fine. It's when someone goes up to a person that just said the word toon(bling), and telling him in his face he shouldn't be saying it, he should be saying character(money), seems close minded and arrogant.
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My point is that it's closed minded to think that the people who dont like something should just get over it. They may not like it for a reason. Even if that isn't YOUR reason, doesn't make it less valid. Many people don't like the term. Sticking your head in the sand and saying 'well, STOP hating the term" is closed minded.
and arrogance? Well, I see that on both sides of the debate. Many people on each side seem to think that everyone in the other side of the debate should stop whatever they're doing or feeling, because that way the problem would be gone and they won't have to do any effort themselves. THAT'S arrogance, and both sides are doing it. Both groups are saying "get over it, you have to accept what I like, but I don't have to accept what you like".
Personally... I can actually think of logical reasons to NOT use the term. how it may be inappropriate, etc... and I've yet to hear a reason that the word is superior to other words. I'm not saying that one group is right and one group is wrong, but if this were a competitive debate, the "pro toon" side hasn't seemed to try to make any actual compelling arguments. There just seems to be a consistant attitude of "haha.. you adults have to deal with us NOW, huh?" which seems an odd stance to take.
Oh... and I don't care for bling either... it sounds like an urban yokel. I don't know why anyone would want to sound like a yokel, urban or rural. (I'd rather be an out of touch old guy than an ignorant yokel)
A couple of years ago someone was using the word bling and i asked what it meant. The conversation went something like this:
me: Ok... I"ve heard this word bling... what is bling?
them: Well, if you buy something like a nice shirt, that is bling.
me: So bling would be clothing. My labcoat is bling?
them: No, that labcoat isn't worth anything.
me: So bling is expensive clothing?
them: Not just... jewlery can be bling too.
me: Ah, so anything expensive that you wear.
them: Well, other valuables are bling as well.
me: Ah! I understand. Bling is booty!
them: No, booty is totally different than bling. I would certainly hope someone wouldn't consider booty to be bling!
me: So gold peices, valuable objects, gems, jewlery, fine or rare clothings, expensive weaponry...
them: Right.
me: Booty!
them: No.. booty is a fine woman.
me: I would certainly hope someone wouldn't consider booty to be a fine woman.
It does seem to be a bit... behind the point to reuse slang, in a completely different form, before people stop using the first usage of the slang. (like booty or toon).
Zeus - god of confusion
Wile E. Coyote's the man... er, the mammal!!
Supergenius!!
Granted, he's a genius who hasn't learned that if he's got the credit to order all that crud from ACME to go after that dirty bird that he should probably order a pizza. I guess it's the principle of the thing, but c'mon... he'll never get Roadrunner to stop using the word "toon" if Roadrunner doesn't feel the need to change. It's not Roadrunner's issue... it's Wile E.'s. 
"What in tarnation's a Rofflemow!!!?" -Priesteater on ROFLMAO
Real Objections Of Genius
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My Grandpa never used the term "bling" for the jewelry he bought for my Grandma in the 50's, but It's damn sure a term nowadays ain't it? (and he's probably just as bitter to people saying it)
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Bad example ... because lots of people hate that term just as much if not more, and think the people who use it are goofballs at best. Do you think people will still be saying 'bling' in 10 years? If not, what do you think people looking back on it will think of the term?
Language does evolve, but holding up one stupid slang term as evidence that all slang is linguistic canon is probably not going to work.
I never implied that the existence of the universe hinged upon the term bling. Relax guys, it's just the first random term I thought of for something I knew some people used/liked and some didn't/hated.
I humbly withdraw from this though, it's not something anyone can win.
At the same time, slang is in fact, slang. If a person decides to employ slang into their vocabulary (and it's not a racial slur... or a curse word around children) then why go off on it as though it were. In my opinion, saying "toon"'s diminutive to your character is a very dangerously oblivious statement of implied "predjudice" when there are real-life predjudices out there that are far less trivial.
If you don't like the word, fine. You're entitled, obviously. If you "correct" someone, who is not wrong for using a term used for most animated renderings by a varied group of Rpers (be it pen an' paper or console/computer gaming) because it offends you, however innocent and harmless a word... I consider that more than a little egotistical and innappropriate. You're not here to be someone else's judge or English teacher in those cases. This is a game. As such, we should excercise the openness and sense of enjoyment to the game to keep it fun, instead of finding one more trivial predjudice to bring to the fore.
That being said, I use the terms I desire. If someone seems "offended" by said terminology I will respect that. However that person automatically smacks of being a shallow attention-monger to me. I give the benefit of the doubt, as it's not always the case at first. However, I have to say that 4 out of 5 of that type of person is certainly the more inconsiderate. After all, that person is the one who decided to berate or "correct" or infer another's social keen was insufficient in a game, right? Doesn't exactly seem like great company to me. I enjoy people of good humor and thicker skins. I'll point out that I do have a few very good friends in-game that are not fans of the word "toon"... still we spare ourselves the debate on any serious level because battling over harmless words is pretty much a melodramatic kind of social posturing that doesn't belong here.
"What in tarnation's a Rofflemow!!!?" -Priesteater on ROFLMAO
Real Objections Of Genius
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Since the execution of both the character and the story are paramount and execution of said story is evoked through the medium of internet gameplay as a sort of virtual performance art, I've decided to call mine a "thespian's ongoing online novella".
Since that's so long, I'll just abbreviate it to T.O.O.N. and assume everyone who's anyone knows what I mean.
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I'll allow this if you continue to use the punctuation to denote it as an acronym.
I'm relaxed. Thanks for your thoughts.
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still we spare ourselves the debate on any serious level because battling over harmless words is pretty much a melodramatic kind of social posturing that doesn't belong here.
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I think this is a very common misconception.
People often think that the opposing side of any argument is much more serious about the debate than their side of the argument is. It's rarely the case.
I don't think that many people take this very seriously at all. You don't get people yelling out "YOU STOLE MY CLOUDSONG AND SAID TOON!". It's mildly annoying, and pretty much stops there.
Of course, those that mildly annoy you don't look good in your eyes.. we judge the annoying as less worthy than we judge the non-annoying. But I doubt the OP is even really rabid about the issue. It's probably just something that he noticed and thought "what the hell" and made a post to see if anyone else thought it was weird too.
There's no battle here my friend... just different sides of a pretty harmless and very non-important debate. Now if we wanted a REALLY serious debate, we'd get into the life threatening issue of people using the shortcut "troller" instead of saying "controller"... Now THAT has cost people lives.
Zeus - god of perspective
Yup, I agree. I'm not ranting at people who say toon. I just think the term is a diminutive one, and trivialises its subject. When I hear someone use it, I don't shout, but I consider it a mark against them in my mind. Why?
Look at the reasons people are giving for using the term. "I heard it first," or "These are just animated cartoons in a game," etc.
The first is simply one of first exposure. It'd be like calling your genitals a peepee for the rest of your life because that's what you heard first. That's not a very compelling reason to me.
The others seem to revolve around people's conception of their "toon" being just some in-game thing they make use of and exists nowhere else. To me, that speaks to a certain attitude towards their creation that I don't share. For me to spend the many hours we do with these things, they'd better damn well be something more than just a flat in-game "toon". I want a character.
That doesn't make me right, but it does tend to make people that say toon, "not my kind of people", the same way it might someone who refers to "bitchiz an' hos".
On the forum I run for my friends the word "toon" is censored for lameness. I try and be a benevolent dictator.
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If you don't like the word, fine. You're entitled, obviously. If you "correct" someone, who is not wrong for using a term used for most animated renderings by a varied group of Rpers (be it pen an' paper or console/computer gaming) because it offends you, however innocent and harmless a word... I consider that more than a little egotistical and innappropriate. You're not here to be someone else's judge or English teacher in those cases. This is a game.
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Is anyone here trying to "correct" anyone else? I don't see anyone laying down Right and Wrong here. Unless you're saying that it's bad of me to point out that "toon" is mere slang. It is, isn't it?
I hope I'm not getting all authoritarian about it. I'm just calling it how I see it. If it's 'inappropriate' for me to do so, then this whole conversation is inappropriate in the first place. We're just talking about whether we like the term or not, basically. I agree, anyone who would get on a high horse about it is a yogurt of some kind.
Fruit on the bottom, I believe.
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Honestly, I use 'toon', 'char', 'character', etc. pretty much interchangably. Why does anyone care so much?
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Yeah - I've never understood why there is so much debate call them whatever ya want...........I think I'll just start call chartoonters, or toonacters, or maybe just feags. Does it really matter.
Hahahaha!!!
Yes... "troller" is a conspicuous term in application.
The only thing that gets my goose is, that there's folks who say they don't care for the term, and I beg your pardon on this, and folks who argue passionately that "toon" is every bit as diminutive as those disgusting racial slurs. While they don't say it out aloud in those words, they certainly are reacting in the same way. Those folks are disturbing to me. I worry for their well-being. There is evidence of that train of thought in this in this very thread which is why I felt a desire to comment. While you may not count yourself as one, they are most certainly out there in full force.
Now I understand Rpers "getting into character" and that certain slangs detract from the RP experience. I was a PnP gamer waaaay back in the day. I get the harshing of "the fourth wall" or the construed disrespect of a person's intellectual properties. But I simply can't equate a form of slang that I openly use on the fly with an insult to someone else's character. If I was insulting characters they'd know.
Plus, I like the term "toon". It has a good-natured decorum to it. I certainly don't use the reference to encite ridiculous debates. And I've bounced out of any team that has lowered itself to do so. I like the term "character" too. "That Priesteater... he's a real character. Too bad he's a cannibal without a clue." "Char"... not big on that one, but feel free if you think it conveys what you need it to.
All I'm sayin' is take it down a notch when talking to whomever and don't let the little things get to you. You'll be a better person for it, and not just in your eyes. For every one of these petty differences in opinion that doesn't go nuclear, you deserve a cookie!!!
"What in tarnation's a Rofflemow!!!?" -Priesteater on ROFLMAO
Real Objections Of Genius
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Honestly, I use 'toon', 'char', 'character', etc. pretty much interchangably. Why does anyone care so much?
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Yeah - I've never understood why there is so much debate call them whatever ya want...........I think I'll just start call chartoonters, or toonacters, or maybe just feags. Does it really matter.
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I've never understood why someone would post, "I don't know what the big deal is" when an entire thread exists preceding their post that explains why.
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Yup, I agree. I'm not ranting at people who say toon. I just think the term is a diminutive one, and trivialises its subject. When I hear someone use it, I don't shout, but I consider it a mark against them in my mind. Why?
Look at the reasons people are giving for using the term. "I heard it first," or "These are just animated cartoons in a game," etc.
The first is simply one of first exposure. It'd be like calling your genitals a peepee for the rest of your life because that's what you heard first. That's not a very compelling reason to me.
The others seem to revolve around people's conception of their "toon" being just some in-game thing they make use of and exists nowhere else. To me, that speaks to a certain attitude towards their creation that I don't share. For me to spend the many hours we do with these things, they'd better damn well be something more than just a flat in-game "toon". I want a character.
That doesn't make me right, but it does tend to make people that say toon, "not my kind of people", the same way it might someone who refers to "bitchiz an' hos".
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See I can't see giving the word that kind of power. The negative connotations you are applying to it are of your own creation. I have yet to read one person in game use it as a derogatory term. To compare it to "bitchiz an' hos" is a bit of a stretch; IMHO; as the base words themselves are negative connotations themselves when used to refer to a human female.
Just for the record I'm not actually a kid myself I'm 34 with wife and children of my own. Also all my avatars are what you would refer to as characters, full bios and such.
I just don't see the point of getting my feathers in a ruffle or holding it against someone if they refer to my Harley as a bike. People will generally give you much better reasons to get pissed at them.
And not to quote myself, but
"Words have as much power as the listener gives them."
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If you don't like the word, fine. You're entitled, obviously. If you "correct" someone, who is not wrong for using a term used for most animated renderings by a varied group of Rpers (be it pen an' paper or console/computer gaming) because it offends you, however innocent and harmless a word... I consider that more than a little egotistical and innappropriate. You're not here to be someone else's judge or English teacher in those cases. This is a game.
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Is anyone here trying to "correct" anyone else? I don't see anyone laying down Right and Wrong here. Unless you're saying that it's bad of me to point out that "toon" is mere slang. It is, isn't it?
I hope I'm not getting all authoritarian about it. I'm just calling it how I see it. If it's 'inappropriate' for me to do so, then this whole conversation is inappropriate in the first place. We're just talking about whether we like the term or not, basically. I agree, anyone who would get on a high horse about it is a yogurt of some kind.
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I'm arguing more for your case than against it. The opening line in that post of mine was that slang is slang... nothin' wrong with it. The right or wrong comment is for those who go nuclear over the term. You've seen it as much as I have, I'd wager. If not, then pray you don't. It's kinda sad.
I never implied YOU in particular were trying to correct anyone else. I said I think it's innapropriate for one person to comment in a serious, negative demeanor on the use of established slang if a person's not intending it as a personal attack. Basically, no one person is the authority of in-game grammar.
I hope you get my meaning. There's a type of attitude out there to whom my comment directly applies. It rears it's ugly head on a frequent basis, although this is not the only fruitless argument it covets. No harm done man.
I do like yogurt.
"What in tarnation's a Rofflemow!!!?" -Priesteater on ROFLMAO
Real Objections Of Genius
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Honestly, I use 'toon', 'char', 'character', etc. pretty much interchangably. Why does anyone care so much?
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Yeah - I've never understood why there is so much debate call them whatever ya want...........I think I'll just start call chartoonters, or toonacters, or maybe just feags. Does it really matter.
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I've never understood why someone would post, "I don't know what the big deal is" when an entire thread exists preceding their post that explains why.
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Maybe they don't understand the why that was given?
Every criminal in a mental institute has a "why" for what they did. It sure as heck doesn't mean people are going to understand or validate that reason. 
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Honestly, I use 'toon', 'char', 'character', etc. pretty much interchangably. Why does anyone care so much?
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Yeah - I've never understood why there is so much debate call them whatever ya want...........I think I'll just start call chartoonters, or toonacters, or maybe just feags. Does it really matter.
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I've never understood why someone would post, "I don't know what the big deal is" when an entire thread exists preceding their post that explains why.
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Because it is more polite than saying, "anyone who is going to get their panties in a wedge over this is a person who likes feeling superior about trivialities."
It's a variation on grammer-nazism. There are people who use grammer rules to make themself understood and there are people who use them as some sort of acid test for a person's worth as a human.
Pinnacle
Glowworm * Brrr * Lilinoe
Protector
Kid Trance * Ms. Impala * Red Helen
Virtue
Pooka Pete
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But I doubt the OP is even really rabid about the issue. It's probably just something that he noticed and thought "what the hell" and made a post to see if anyone else thought it was weird too.
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You would be correct, my friend.
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Yup, I agree. I'm not ranting at people who say toon. I just think the term is a diminutive one, and trivialises its subject. When I hear someone use it, I don't shout, but I consider it a mark against them in my mind. Why?
Look at the reasons people are giving for using the term. "I heard it first," or "These are just animated cartoons in a game," etc.
The first is simply one of first exposure. It'd be like calling your genitals a peepee for the rest of your life because that's what you heard first. That's not a very compelling reason to me.
The others seem to revolve around people's conception of their "toon" being just some in-game thing they make use of and exists nowhere else. To me, that speaks to a certain attitude towards their creation that I don't share. For me to spend the many hours we do with these things, they'd better damn well be something more than just a flat in-game "toon". I want a character.
That doesn't make me right, but it does tend to make people that say toon, "not my kind of people", the same way it might someone who refers to "bitchiz an' hos".
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See I can't see giving the word that kind of power. The negative connotations you are applying to it are of your own creation. I have yet to read one person in game use it as a derogatory term. To compare it to "bitchiz an' hos" is a bit of a stretch; IMHO; as the base words themselves are negative connotations themselves when used to refer to a human female.
Just for the record I'm not actually a kid myself I'm 34 with wife and children of my own. Also all my avatars are what you would refer to as characters, full bios and such.
I just don't see the point of getting my feathers in a ruffle or holding it against someone if they refer to my Harley as a bike. People will generally give you much better reasons to get pissed at them.
And not to quote myself, but
"Words have as much power as the listener gives them."
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All words have power, just as they have meaning. Which is not to say that, again, I'm getting my panties in a bunch over this. I'm not.
Let me be clear: I don't really *care* if someone uses the word "toon". I just don't like the use of it, for stated reasons, and using counts as a (very small) mark against in my books.
My feathers aren't in a ruffle, and I'm not saying that the term is in the same boat or degree as bitchiz an' hos. I'm just saying that it's inaccurate, puerile and diminutive, and speaks to a certain outlook which I don't tend to identify with. That's all.
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It's a variation on grammer-nazism. There are people who use grammer rules to make themself understood and there are people who use them as some sort of acid test for a person's worth as a human.
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To some extent, that's instinctive. I certainly can't help it half the time. If I meet two different people on two seperate occasions, and one of them says things like "Hi there. I really enjoy playing my Illusion/Empathy Controller, due to the sheer number of pets he gets." but the other says something like "omg i luv my ma/regen scrapper he pwnz n roxxorz! what AT r u playin"... *pause*
Well, number one instinctively seems like an intelligent well versed person, and so mentally that's an automatic point in his favor for me liking him. Number two could very well be a smart, mature likable person, but instantly he gives me the subconscious impression that he's a 13 year old goober. That may not be fair, but that's instinct (at least for me).
I have a friend in my sg, for example who lives in my town and I see all the time in real life. He's a smart, eloquent guy who just got his Masters in computer programming and software design... but in CoH/CoV, he uses ultra shortened words. "u" instead of you, or "r" instead of are. He doesn't say pwnz or roxxors or n00b, but if you just meet him online it would be easy to judge him unfavorably. He just doesn't like to take the time to post as eloquently as he speaks. Is it fair to him? No. But it's still the instinctual reaction a lot of people are going to have.
Now mind you, I certainly don't advocate abandoning all shortened internet slang, as I find myself using some of them, but I don't think any of the words or phrases I shorten demean my posts much, if any. I am willing to shorten be right back to brb, supergroup to sg, and people to ppl... that's about it.
The quoted poster mentioned people using others' grammar as a sort of acid test on their worth as a person... I'm saying it's not that we're consciously doing it; those people can send an unfavorable implication of their intelligence and maturity without either party really realizing it. Perhaps there's nothing that can be done about it, but there you have it.
Technically we are playing in an environment that is cartoonish. I don't see anything offensive about the term and since it seems pretty common, I think those who have issues with it need to get over themselves.
PC stuff drives me crazy.
That would be because it IS close-minded and arrogant.
Just sayin'.
"What in tarnation's a Rofflemow!!!?" -Priesteater on ROFLMAO
Real Objections Of Genius