NO OFFENSIVE POWERS? 
i wouldn't go that way especially if you get your henchmen gobbled up.
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NO OFFENSIVE POWERS?
i wouldn't go that way especially if you get your henchmen gobbled up.
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Naw, that's workable. Dr Negatron, my Robo/FF, has no attack powers except Forcebolt, and she kicks boot hovering stealthed over the battle.
But the pistol powers? I couldn't bear skipping them, at least until pistol blasters or scrappers show up. I've got all three on Nacht, my Thugs/Dark, and I have a ball mixing it up with the boys.
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I'm new to CoV and masterminds, my Thug/Poison is currently lv 13, but I find that Thugs happen to be very easily killed. I like to minimize the chance of them dying in battle by helping them out with something other than Brawl and the end hogging, barely-healing Alkaloid. (I'm sure things get better in higher levels.) The best way to mitigate damage is to kill mobs fast. And I can't tell you how cool it feels to stand there with my three guys (punks and enforcer) all opening fire on the mobs at the same time, it's like something out of Desperado or Face/Off. I can't wait until the opportunity to get Empty Clips.
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I'm new to CoV and masterminds, my Thug/Poison is currently lv 13, but I find that Thugs happen to be very easily killed.
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Wow I am amazed that you would say this. What are you doing to your thugs to get them to die like that? I think that thugs are the second most resiliant minions behind necro.Mine never die. 
And I also have pistols and duel wield but I dont think I will get empty clips. I think I can find something better to use to my advantage than another attack power.
Overall the worst guide I've read so far. 
My Thugs/Dark is currently 28 and has the first 2 attacks (Pistols and Dual Wield) and plan on picking up Empty Clips at 30. I find that I do quite a bit of damage, especially if the targets are in the Tar Patch. Before I had Stamina the attack powers were end heavy, but once I got Stamina I rarely run out of end. My fighting style puts me right in the middle of my shooters while my Bruiser is in the thick of it, meleeing to his hearts content. This puts me in perfect position to blaze away with my twin Desert Eagles and spam Twilight Grasp.
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'Lo, there do I see my mother, and my sisters, and my brothers.
'Lo, there do I see the line of my people, back to the beginning.
'Lo, they do call to me.
They bid me take my place among them.
In the halls of Valhalla, where the brave may live forever.
I'm surprised so many people are defending the attack powers. Sure they look cool, but their damage is trivial compared to those of your pets. My 39 thugs/traps MM only has dual wield and that's mostly to pull mobs around a corner onto my traps.
Without having attack powers my thugs kill enemies so fast I often don't have time to plant any traps (and yes, I'm set to relentless). I think your power selections could be better used on something else.
I don't even need stamina if I'm just laying traps, directing my pets, and spamming web grenade.
I dunno...I have to admit that the pistols were the major part of my whole REASON to try out a thugs mm. Mine is a thugs/poison MM currently at lvl 17 with ONLY the first power in my secondary. (yeah yeah...flame me later...whatever) and has all three of the pistol attacks. I've never looked back. IMO...these powers are worth it. I have a lvl 28 nin/dark mm that i have basically stopped playing. That one has 2 of the attacks that he never uses...they just don't do much. But the pistols...HUGE difference! Individually...i do more damage per shot than my punks do and they have the only DO damage enhancement in my setup as of now! They just do more damage cuz they have #'s on me. If they're doing double 10's on dual wield...i'm doing double 11's. Because of the pistols, Rick Raven is far more enjoyable to play than Renzoukuu ever was.
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I wanna know where all the prim weap power supports came from?
Simply put, you always have a better power in your secondary to take than any of the attacks.
Whether it be a powerpool, or not.
This allows you to do things like have assasult and tactics before 12, or a travel and a heal other etc.
I havent played far enough with a MM with a prim power to see just how much use it gets farther down the road, but as far as i can tell, the dmg output just isnt needed with 6 bots up etc.
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I WILL NOT BE LISTING THE 3 ATTACKS PISTOLS, DUAL WIELD, OR EMPTY CLIPS
If you get them, re-roll as a Defender...
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Unsupported opinion and insulting smugness right off the bat--that's a bad way to start a guide.
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I've played Thug MM up to a fair level where I think I understand the mechanics of the primary (at least with respect to the dynamics that /traps adds to the set).
I think the OP didn't elaborate on his disdain for the pistol attacks because, having played a thug MM, he probably couldn't understand why someone would want them other than because "they look cool."
Maybe at low levels you guys think you're dishing out damage with your dual weild, but if you're slotting your thugs right, any of your atttack's damage will be trivial to what your posse is doing.
Don't waste your end on your "bang... bang, bang.... pow-pow-pow-pow" attacks while your enforcers are hosing people down with a hail of uzi bullets.
You should be supporting them with holds, bubbles, tarpatches, poison traps, alkaloids, acid mortars or whatever the heck your secondary offers.
If you're role playing, fine. If you're more concerned with how your toon looks than how effective he is, fine. Otherwise, taking a pistol attack for anything but the occasional pull, you're wasting your power selections.
My thug/traps MM drops invincible spawns so quickly, I can't imagine how some lame, end hungry, low side of moderate damage attacks would make an impact.
I can show that the weapons attacks (all three summed and hastened) do ~roughly~ equal damage to any teir of pet.
You can take that as a positive, or a negative.
Positive: That's a nice bit of damage.
Negative: That costs you 3-4 powers, 15-18 slots -vs- 1 power and 4-5 slots.
Given the costs, if you want them, take them late in life after you've paid for the essentials first. But to say they are worthless is unsupportable opinion.
Saw this. Figured it might be useful. Have a Thugs/Poison MM. Turns out I didnt need to look at this. Terrible guide.
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Just Because You Can, Doesn't Mean You Should!
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You should be supporting them with holds, bubbles, tarpatches, poison traps, alkaloids, acid mortars or whatever the heck your secondary offers.
If you're role playing, fine. If you're more concerned with how your toon looks than how effective he is, fine. Otherwise, taking a pistol attack for anything but the occasional pull, you're wasting your power selections.
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How is picking a power of the character that you (the person playing the character, toon, etc) play on a daily basis whether for fun, RP, PvE or PvP a waste of a power just because you classify it as so?
I have a lvl 23/24 Thugs/dark and I have dual wield and am enjoying the power, though I mainly use for pulling or adding additional damage to a boss I am taking down; I would never tell someone else with the same build that the power is a waste just because I did not take it.
Dead horse by now, eh? This guide is really just an informal thing outside of the attacks.
Don't like my opinion?
Awesome.
o_O where in San Heck did you see that I quoted you????? I quoted Science teacher I never read your post.
<QR?>
Jesus, you pistol lovers act like the man spit on your mother. So what if he didn't put attacks? MMs do not need them. Instead of looking like an Emo Neo loser with your duel pistols and the sucky damage from them, get something from the pool powers like Acro, hasten, heal self or something from the Leadership pool <_<. You shouldnt try to blast the baddies your self. You'll draw aggro to your self pre-bruiser. A MM should always be on the defensive/supportive, letting his henchman do the damage while throwing debuffs/buffs
'BUT WUT IF THEY die?!!!1'
Then resummon. Move on.
I also took Dual Wield on my Thugs/Dark and enjoyed it immensely in the early levels. I found that my Thug (or Thugs) needed my help. Plus, my MM looked cool blasting the bad guys. However, as I've moved up (I'm level 28 now), I've found less and less reason to use Dual Weild. My team is out-blasting me by far, and they need my help with buffs, debuffs, etc.; basically things they can't do on their own. It was really strange the first few battles (in the mid-teens) where I never even fired a shot (I usually play Scrappers). I'm now actually thinking of respeccing out and adding another Dark power instead.
Anyway, the personal offensive weapons are great early on, but not really needed later, as far as I've been able to tell. I say take them early, replace them later.
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Arc# 63910 "Why Do Bad Girls Like Bad Boys?" (length=Long, levels 40+)
Arc# 401500 "How to Be a Successful Professional Criminal" (length=Very Long, levels 1-10)
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...like Acro, hasten, heal self or something from the Leadership pool ....
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Acro: KB is seldom if ever a problem for me.
Heal Self: Why, I have Twilight Grasp AND a Dark Servant slotted to Heal.
Leadership: Got it already, Thanks.
Hasten: Sorry, it just doesn't help much for my MMs. All my powers are already recharged when I need them. Of course, if I had Personal Attacks, Hasten could add an additional 10dps. I'll pick up at 50.
Personal Attacks: Lets see, my minions are doing about 90 dps to targets .... add in all my attacks (all 3, fully slotted) unhastened and now WE are doing 111 dps ... add in Hasten and WE are doing 118 dps. Lets see 118/90 = 131%, so an extra 31% damage multiplied, so that's like 2 extra damage SO's in each pet, or a 62% (base) Damage Buff. And that cost ... 18 slots and 4 powers. Ouch! In the Pocket Book! Yeow! But then what else was I gonna do with those powers ? Patron Powers ? Meh. Patrons are to me of about equal value to weapons, and the weapons are more fun. (Remember, damage buffs work off your BASE damage, not your enhanced damage)
Extra damage equal to a pair of Lt's, Worthless ? I guess that would be in the eye of the beholder. Very Expensive, you bet. Worth the expense ? Again, that's not something I or anyone else can decide for someone else. After all, some people think raw fish eggs are worth $50/ounce. Just because It's your opinion that someone couldn't pay YOU $50 to eat raw fish eggs, doesn't mean someone else might not think it's worth PAYING to get to eat those same fish eggs.
Fine.
I guess you can go crazy with the pistols as soon as your out of options in the mid 40s.
pretty much what I tell people.
Now ... I wonder what would happen if I compared Pistols to Air Superiority, Boxing, and Sands of Mu ... hmmm ...
WOW pretty much a total garbage guide. If you tell people to not take certain powers at least explain why. Taking those powers only adds to your DPS. So I take it your one of the types that likes to stand at the door and do nothing while you get PL'd?? Cause thats pretty much what you got with no attack powers. Send in the pets and stand back and watch.
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So I take it your one of the types that likes to stand at the door and do nothing while you get PL'd?? Cause thats pretty much what you got with no attack powers. Send in the pets and stand back and watch.
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While I agree that he should explain why to not take pistols, this statement is really uninformed. The reason for not taking pistol powers is because your personal ability to general damage pales in comparison to the multiplicative effect that you acheive using your secondary, while letting your thugs deal the damage. Taking Pistols instead of Tar Patch would be a rather significant mistake.
I personally have no pistol powers, but I guaruntee you I do not stand at the door letting my thugs do the work. You might try reading some of the other guides (like mine) to get a feel for how Thugs meshes with the secondaries.
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You'll draw aggro to your self pre-bruiser. Oh no, I FORGOT ~BG~ MODE!
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Fixed that, if you take aggro away from your minions, your still perfectly fine, I mean unless you forgot BODYGUARD MODE, which constitutes you being a poor MM, a very VERY poor weak un worth the title MM, MM...then your minions should take most of your damage, making you totally safe. Unless of course you forgot BG mode.............................................. .......................................
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What did you do just cut and paste the info from somewhere? Worst guide ever.
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What the hell?
Anyways, excellent guide!