Empowerment Station buffs really this pathetic?
By
Alodarn,
Posted on: 2006-06-09 05:41 in Base Construction
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Because, for whatever stupid reason, they've made a decision that PvE bases need to suffer PvP costs.
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Not even that: they'll decided that everyone's bases have to suffer level 50 nothing-else-to-do-but-farm-prestige-23.2-hours-a-day costs. Base costs are one of those rare moments when both PvE and PvP are simultaneously screwed, leaving even the conspiracy theorists genuinely stumped.
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thats what the ratchet and clank games are for me, most of the time 
I must admit that my take on this whole empowerment station bit, is that they are ONLY good for converting salvage into components.
First of all, it is easier to trade, and easier to store (once the salvage storage is bugfree).
I will not be using the empowerment stations for buffing. I would much rather use my salvage to BUILD something for my base. This converting to buffs is just nonsense. Salvage is hard to enough to come by, as it is.
What the empowerment stations ought to do, instead of giving buffs, was to use salvage to actually build base items, as an alternative to buying them for prestige.
I love every aspect of this game, but bases fall way below the mark, big time, I'm sorry to say.
This is of course only my opinion.
Main Hero: Flame Blade (Scrapper lvl 50; Katana/Regeneration)
Main Villain: Elenor Seahawk (Mastermind lvl 44; Necromancy/Poison)
My Arcs: #337278: Learning Curve
Fight my Brute: SMASH
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With respect, have you seen the recipes? Do you know just how much Salvage needs to be burned to make a buff worthwhile?
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I don't know what else we're going to do with all that salvage we've been collecting.
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Again: have you seen the recipes? And how big a SG are you?
That salvage might seem like a big pile now, but it will NOT last if you try to use these stations the way they currently are.
Small SGs need something they can use. That was what these were supposed to be. As it stands, a small SG will get zero worthwhile use out of them.
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Multiple empowerment stations will stack the buffs that are offered (by design). If we made the buffs as good as players "expect" right out the gate, they'd be WAY too good when stacked.
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uuahhh?.... what the hell, I'll just ask it...
So then why don't they last a lot LONGER?
How well do you think Viagra would have sold if it only lasted 10 minutes?
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These devices are for small SGs, right? A small SG is much more likely to have a limited amount of salvage, which it can invest in very few buffs before stores run out.
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Is that really the case?
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Yes, demonstrably. I have alts in a small SG, and the amount of salvage we have accumulated since salvage was first introduced to the game won't net us more than a few buffs.
I'm not saying big SGs have too much of an advantage over small SGs. I'm saying that Empowerment Stations were supposed to be a welcome addition for small SGs, and they aren't.
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Multiple empowerment stations will stack the buffs that are offered (by design). If we made the buffs as good as players "expect" right out the gate, they'd be WAY too good when stacked.
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Like everyone else I am going to ask, "So why allow them to stack?"
Like many people I did try them out on Test and the whole 15 minutes from go thing makes them pretty pointless IMO.
It would seem that the solution to all their usability issues would be to make them 5 minute temp powers that don't stack with each other regardless of type.
Overall I am surprised at the weakness of these buffs given that you don't seem to care that inspirations are so grossly overpowered and stack as well. *shrug*
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
Empowerment stations a bust?
Why am I not surprised?
Remind me of what the empowerment stations were supposed to fill the gap of and for?
Sigh...
I keep finding myself saying... next issue... next issue... next issue until I find something that makes me happy.
Please don't let trenchcoats suck --- it's all I have left to look forward too that I know is coming for my hero.
EC
Why not make the buff stations a reprocess station: turn salvage into insperations.
The basic salvage would turn into the smallest, and the rare salvage into larget insperations.
Rather than have all this complicated doohicky of stacking buffs and the like and having only a limited time to use it before it wears off.
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So it's not actually working as intended, then, because the buffs DON'T stack?
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To answer my own question: I've been doing some testing, and the buffs are definitely not stacking, neither from the same station nor from different ones. I even hopped between Arcane and Tech. No dice.
'You failed to create the Increase Run Speed because your inventory is full.'
So, we're currently stuck with buffs that are too weak to use unstacked, and which refuse to stack! Obviously, this is going to need fixing one way or the other.
Till then, let's just put the word out not to use up Salvage on these things until they're fixed. Maybe this could be added to the known issues.
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So it's not actually working as intended, then, because the buffs DON'T stack?
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To answer my own question: I've been doing some testing, and the buffs are definitely not stacking, neither from the same station nor from different ones. I even hopped between Arcane and Tech. No dice.
'You failed to create the Increase Run Speed because your inventory is full.'
So, we're currently stuck with buffs that are too weak to use unstacked, and which refuse to stack! Obviously, this is going to need fixing one way or the other.
Till then, let's just put the word out not to use up Salvage on these things until they're fixed. Maybe this could be added to the known issues.
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I wouldn't hold my breath.
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That salvage might seem like a big pile now, but it will NOT last if you try to use these stations the way they currently are.
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and remember it's going to take over 300 tier-2 components to build these, some of them being advanced components. That's well over 1000 pieces of salvage out of you stash that don't turn into buffs.
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Multiple empowerment stations will stack the buffs that are offered (by design). If we made the buffs as good as players "expect" right out the gate, they'd be WAY too good when stacked.
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So these buffs are not as good as players expect.
That means people are giving their hard-earned salvage for something and getting not as much as they expect.
Don't you think that's going to anger people just a little?
At the very least, this is another case for putting the actual power numbers on the station. So people will know exactly what to expect from their purchase.
Also, even if the power is fixed to stack, this may be difficult to do with many people present because only one person can use the table at a time.
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So it's not actually working as intended, then, because the buffs DON'T stack?
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To answer my own question: I've been doing some testing, and the buffs are definitely not stacking, neither from the same station nor from different ones. I even hopped between Arcane and Tech. No dice.
'You failed to create the Increase Run Speed because your inventory is full.'
So, we're currently stuck with buffs that are too weak to use unstacked, and which refuse to stack! Obviously, this is going to need fixing one way or the other.
Till then, let's just put the word out not to use up Salvage on these things until they're fixed. Maybe this could be added to the known issues.
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Hold on a sec. Did you try stacking buffs from a teir 1, 2, and 3 empowerment station?
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Hold on a sec. Did you try stacking buffs from a teir 1, 2, and 3 empowerment station?
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Yes, tried that. Same result.
It never even occurred to me that we'd be able to stack buffs from multiple stations. Here's a big DOH!
However, this brings up the problem that the current salvage recipes seem to be out of line if we are supposed to build multiple tier 3 stations in order to stack these buffs to get to "player acceptable" levels. This is the same problem that the melee classes have with their passive defenses. Their initial values are too low to justify taking them when there are other, more viable, options available. You can't count on being able to stack things with a small percentage value to make that small value worthwhile. Thus, the players go for what gives them the best return for the investment and avoid choices with small initial values.
Plus, there is the time wasted on buffs as you try to get enough stacked up together to "acceptable" levels. As you are playing around with making the components at another station, the timer is ticking down on any buffs you have already gotten. Add to that the travel time in CoH to get back to missions since there aren't teleporter beacons for every zone, and players are effectively wasting a good portion of their salvage investment.
Let me jump in with those saying to make the buffs bigger and not stackable. Heck, let me go further and suggest the entire empowerment station mechanic needs to be thought. It does not mesh with how the game is played, and provides too little return for the salvage investment.
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As sarcastic as I was before, the idea that work is fun in a video game is piss poor and 20 years out of date, yet its a repeated mistake and why video games, and specifically MMOs can't advance. And why games that are so bogged down in minutia like CoH is will never appeal to the masses.
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You said a mouthful right there Circ.
A game should be so blindingly fun you can't stop playing it... We all have plenty of work to do at WORK (or school)... we don't need a game to simulate WORK for us.
F
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QFT. Why do I want to work in game. I get enought out here. 
GA
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Base costs are one of those rare moments when both PvE and PvP are simultaneously screwed, leaving even the conspiracy theorists genuinely stumped.
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Maybe it's just that it's early and I haven't fully caffeinated, but this made me laugh out loud.
@Mindshadow
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Multiple empowerment stations will stack the buffs that are offered (by design). If we made the buffs as good as players "expect" right out the gate, they'd be WAY too good when stacked.
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"Farm or die." No thanks.
cost >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>> benefit
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Not even that: they'll decided that everyone's bases have to suffer level 50 nothing-else-to-do-but-farm-prestige-23.2-hours-a-day costs. Base costs are one of those rare moments when both PvE and PvP are simultaneously screwed, leaving even the conspiracy theorists genuinely stumped.
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Well lets face it, they spend too much time worrying about what people can do at level 50, and not enough time worrying about the other 49 levels.
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but it is. and the point still stands, because the larger sg's have a slight advantage (from the points you mentioned), while smaller sg's have no advantage
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The point I mentioned was that they had an easier time combining "scraps". That's not a huge advantage.
Besides, most of that benefit is achieved with the first few members, after that the benefit per extra member goes down fairly fast.
Now, larger SGs will have an easier time gathering salvage to buy items for their base (including the tier 2/3 empowerment stations), but that doesn't seem to be what was complained about.
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Are you serious? You do realize this provides nothing (by design) to a resource strapped, small SG, while providing a large, organized PvP, who can farm a single av for a week and a half, a huge advantage for 15 mintes, aka 1 match.
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AVs are (with a few exceptions) guaranteed to drop a "special" salvage (Alien Tech, Spells of Power...). There are no empowerment recipes that use these.
AVs also have a chance to drop "regular" salvage, but it seems to me that farming AVs would be one of the worst possible ways to gather salvage for empowerment buffs.
So while there are reasons to dislike the way empowerment buffs are set up, this is not one of them.
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Well, then replace "farm av's" with whatever activity is most likely to drop salvage. ::EyeRoll::
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I seem to get my best salvage/time when I'm soloing.
So...
Large SGs are at an advantage because they have an easier time soloing?
Yeah, that makes sense.
It's so hard to find a good solo group these days.
Now, I won't claim that I'm in any way representative of the general player base, and it's very possible that this won't hold true for everyone.
Also, I don't spend much time on large teams, and it's possible that large teams somehow result in more salvage/time/player than small/medium teams.
However, it seems to be far from obvious that this is the case.
And even if this is the case, that'd be a benefit from playing on large teams, not being a member of a large SG.
Maybe you could argue that members of large SGs are more likely to play on large teams. I have no clue if this is generally the case or not.
The general advantage that SGs (or other groups of players that regularly play together) have is that they know each other well and can specialize in certain tasks.
Farming AVs is such a thing that these groups can have an advantage in, but as we already covered, this doesn't really help them gather usable salvage.
It seems to me that if you are going to claim that large SGs have an advantage in gathering salvage/player, then you should at least attempt to show that this is actually the case.
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These devices are for small SGs, right? A small SG is much more likely to have a limited amount of salvage, which it can invest in very few buffs before stores run out.
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Is that really the case?
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Yes, demonstrably. I have alts in a small SG, and the amount of salvage we have accumulated since salvage was first introduced to the game won't net us more than a few buffs.
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If you'd argue that larger SGs have an advantage over small SGs when it comes to gathering prestige to expand their base, then I'd completely agree.
If you'd argue that the empowerment buffs have limited use, then I'd agree that they are very situational.
However, if you're going to argue that larger SGs have an easier time gathering salvage/player, then you'd have to come up with more than that "It's demonstrably so".
Now, if you'd argue that smaller SGs have a harder time affording the salvage required to build the higher tier empowerment stations, then you'd have a point.
However, that cost is
a) transient
b) relatively small compared to the cost of the buffs those stations make available
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On Test, the buffs seemed underwhelming. I just had a chance to test them on Live in exactly the kind of circumstances for which they were meant.
Up against Nemesis, EB version. I brew up a couple of buffs: Knockback Protection (only a single tech material, good and cheap) and Disorient Protection (costly, but I don't want to be stunned).
KB protection seems to work, but halfway through the fight I'm suddenly reeling around, stunned. Couldn't pop the health insp that would have saved me. Hmm. Didn't I just invest some fairly rare salvage in some stun protection?
These stations have the potential to be really cool, but as it stands (whether by bug or by design) they just aren't worth the salvage it takes to make them.
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Multiple empowerment stations will stack the buffs that are offered (by design). If we made the buffs as good as players "expect" right out the gate, they'd be WAY too good when stacked.
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I'm not touching these things with a 10' pole. If it takes multiples of these to be useful, takes valuable (as opposed to common) salvage, and eats up connections in my base... forget it. Storage is actually useful. Miniscule buffs that wear off and eat up rare salvage (and result in AV/GM buffs... if you ask me) aren't.
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