Empowerment Station buffs really this pathetic?
By
Alodarn,
Posted on: 2006-06-09 05:41 in Base Construction
These things are just sad. I only use them to refine salvage. IF they used regular, unrefined salvage, I could see some benefit. Using components is just bad design. The buffs are weak, they don't last long enough, and go into effect immediately. Bad design.
I wish that they would let you use the special salvage that is used for base defenses. You know, like "spells of power" and whatnot. It would allow us to get rid of that stuff if we are not planning on raiding or building defenses. Even with the buffs as weak as they are, I would be happy to burn up some of that stuff.
"...freedom isn't a commodity to compromise." -- Captain America, New Avengers #21
Guide to Base Teleporters
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...Bad design...
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Yes. I am seeing a pattern develope at Cryptic.
Chatting with about 4 other active players and SG members, we were trying to recall the last Issue that actually made the game more fun.
Taking away a lot of the "well it made this more challenging" and the "that was too overpowered" we determined that issue 1 was the last update that made things funner.
Sure, there are more changes and challenges now, but is it more FUN ? We didn't think it was. Thankfully for Cryptic and NC Soft, they have no direct competitor... yet. (even though over 1/2 our SG moved to WoW a year after it's release...)
I suppose we'll just keep taking it and smile.
-FB
"Look how many pages of crap are in this thread already!" -r0y to all threads on these forums.
I got to the 6th page on this post... and couldn't take it any more i have to put in my $0.02 worth...
I agree with everyone else and I just want to stick my name in here in the hopes the devs will take notice...
The empowerment stations are only good for refining salvage and the "temp powers" are to weak to use... EVEN IF THEY WERE FREE. Even if it cost nothing.. no prestige... not infamy and certianly not slavage...
15 minutes is to short a time even for a decent / good buff let along a crappy pethetic one...
I just dont understand why AVs/GMs get uber buffed and we get uber-mini buffes for the salvage we get when taking them down!
I wont reference anything from "real life" because this is a game.... but I will say that usually in pen-paper RPG's when you take down something large and significent you GET something large and significent. Not when you take down 4 significent things... put them together and get a weeny buff that lasts only long enough to get to your next large significent thing and runs out half way through...
It's extreamly underpowered and insulting to us your customers if this is not at least considered as a problem and is shluffed off as "working as intended"
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...Bad design...
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Yes. I am seeing a pattern develope at Cryptic.
Chatting with about 4 other active players and SG members, we were trying to recall the last Issue that actually made the game more fun.
Taking away a lot of the "well it made this more challenging" and the "that was too overpowered" we determined that issue 1 was the last update that made things funner.
Sure, there are more changes and challenges now, but is it more FUN ? We didn't think it was. Thankfully for Cryptic and NC Soft, they have no direct competitor... yet. (even though over 1/2 our SG moved to WoW a year after it's release...)
I suppose we'll just keep taking it and smile.
-FB
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PFT
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The empowerment stations are only good for refining salvage and the "temp powers" are to weak to use... EVEN IF THEY WERE FREE. Even if it cost nothing.. no prestige... not infamy and certianly not slavage...
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I dunno. I think the cost of placing the empowerment stations is about right... if the buffs they granted were free.
Spending the salvage from an entire night's play on what's effectively a ten-minute duration stage-1 inspiration buff, not so much.
@Mindshadow
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The empowerment stations are only good for refining salvage and the "temp powers" are to weak to use... EVEN IF THEY WERE FREE. Even if it cost nothing.. no prestige... not infamy and certianly not slavage...
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I dunno. I think the cost of placing the empowerment stations is about right... if the buffs they granted were free.
Spending the salvage from an entire night's play on what's effectively a ten-minute duration stage-1 inspiration buff, not so much.
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ok I flew off the handle a bit... maybe if they were FREE buffs that lasted 15 minutes then I suppose it might be worth trucking back to the base and gettting the buff between missions... But then we would all complain that 15 minutes isn't long enough and it would be annoying having to zone 4 times for a simple buff lol 
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I'd bet that in the course of 5 News missions and one Mayhem you won't even pick up enough Salvage to use the buff station once. It's easier to keep gathering Raid side-missions.
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Having made the above comment, I figured I'd test it out.
Short version: 25 minutes of effort got me a Raid side mission and nowhere near an Empowerment Buff.
My narrative...
I did this with a level 27 Dark/Fire Brute on Viscious. He needed a new contact anyways, his broker bar was empty. This was all done in Nerva.
I started by emptying my Salvage into the SG Bins, so I would know what dropped.
First Newspaper mission... hmm, I'll go with Lost. Having 2 Stealth temp powers from patrolling the 2 PvP zones, I figure it's not an unusual tactic to stealth to the last room and kill the boss. and 4 of his friends. ok. No salvage for that.
On to the second one. No Lost this time out, I'll go with some Council. Stealth to the end, whack him, 7 of his friends. Got 1 Body Armor somewhere in that fight.
OK, mission 3, let me try to stick with Council so when I do have a lot of salvage I can go with "Make this by combining Council Salvage" and not worry about having to swap with Storage. But wait... no Council missions. Still no Lost, either, had they dropped something. OK... Sky Raiders. Have to kill 12 in the last room of the Warehouse, not counting some ForceField Generators. Zero salvage drops.
News Mission 4. No Council this time, either. No Lost, no Raiders. I go with Warriors. Only need to kill 3, no salvage.
News Mission 5. Council finally available again, but I gave up on trying to match salvage, so I grab another Warrior hoping it may be the same door. It is. 2 more dead, mission done, zero salvage.
So far: 20 minutes. 2 Bubbles of XP. 1 piece of salvage.
Long run to the Winston. Long run to the Mayhem right next to the other Broker in the zone. *sigh*.
Superjump to the Arson location, snag my badge progress (another rant entirely), SJ to the Raid location. This makes 4 Council, 7 Longbow, 3 PPD in this mission. No salvage.
I stealth my way thru the warehouse and find a crate with no one guarding it. I get Electromagnetic Grenades.
I'll stop the narrative here, as I then wandered around killing while inviting badge chasers to get the explore badge.
Final tally: under 30 minutes, 2.25 Bubbles of XP, 1 new contact, 1 piece of salvage, and 30 Electromagnetic Grenades, and I can't wait to see what they might do against Luminary. They do seem much better than the 1/12th of a 15 minute buff I've acquired in that time.
So, the problems....
It's very hard to even get the right pieces of salvage to make components. Even when trying to focus on one group of enemies, you can't choose all Council missions in a row.
Salvage would seem to drop far too rarely to make this station worth it. I'm looking at 1 buff per level, if I'm lucky. Considering the amount of grinding to pick up levels above L25, I'm looking at 5 Mayhems every 5 levels. Sure, maybe they bunch up 3 at 30 and 2 at 34, but the powers I get can be stored for later use, so what does it matter?
I can't pick my buff power. That's OK with me. Like with the recent AV improvements, no one's complaining about a random, powerful SO. It's better than the cash to buy a Training of your choice.
and last, just to stress the initial thought that start this, the temp power from the Raid is MUCH more useful, powerful, fun, and even has better graphics than the buff station.
any suggestions on how to get Positron to read this?
one addition: after all that, I ran 4 more missions for another bubble and a half of XP, then exemplared for the Cap Strikeforce. Total 2.5 hours of playing that character (sure, a bit of it standing around Cap organizing the SF, but this is a social multiplayer game) and I currently have this for salvage: 1 Alien Tech (from Infernal), 1 Spells of Power (from Bat'Zul), 1 Amulet, 2 Body Armor, 1 E-chip. I may be able to make one Tech Material from that. and as for the Alien Tech, it's as useless as the other 232 our SG has sitting in the storage bin.
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The empowerment stations are only good for refining salvage and the "temp powers" are to weak to use... EVEN IF THEY WERE FREE. Even if it cost nothing.. no prestige... not infamy and certianly not slavage...
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IMO it seems they were more worried about how these would be used in PvP. So rather than listen to people complain about how powerful the buffs were, they hit it with a pre-emptive nerf. This is sad because they have the potential to help the PvE side or the game.
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The empowerment stations are only good for refining salvage and the "temp powers" are to weak to use... EVEN IF THEY WERE FREE. Even if it cost nothing.. no prestige... not infamy and certianly not slavage...
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IMO it seems they were more worried about how these would be used in PvP. So rather than listen to people complain about how powerful the buffs were, they hit it with a pre-emptive nerf. This is sad because they have the potential to help the PvE side or the game.
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PvP wrecks yet another potentialy great PvE aspect of the game.
I think I am getting used to this.
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IMO it seems they were more worried about how these would be used in PvP. So rather than listen to people complain about how powerful the buffs were, they hit it with a pre-emptive nerf. This is sad because they have the potential to help the PvE side or the game.
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I wonder why they didn't just turn these off in PvP zones.
Think about it: this was given specifically for a small PvE group to have a use for bases and Salvage. (Partly under the belief, I think, that a PvP players tend to gather together in gangs.)
Why aren't these just completely dedicated PvE powers?
Story Time...
let's look at an example from a villain using Empowerment.
The Riddler goes to rob a bank. Batman shows up and wraps him up with a batarrang line.
Riddler escapes, plans his next heist. Goes to rob a bank. Batman shows up, Riddler says "haHA!!! This time... I'm wearing TENNIS SHOES!" and bolts. Batman casually throws another batarrang. end of scene.
Riddler regroups... next bank... "oh, yeah... I'm wearing glasses this time! you wouldn't hit a guy with *SMASH!!!* ugh..."
Riddler regroups... "this time I'm buffed with *SMASH!!!* ... "
Regroup. *SMASH!!!*
This is a typical commedic routine. This is also the empowerment buff. You get a little more powerful in hopes of winning a rematch. 5% probably won't make a difference, and you may even get a buff that's irrelevant (eg, they still overcome the Knockback protection, or they do a second type of damage that still manages to take you out.)
Now compare it to this scene...
Joker is robbing a bank. Batman drops in. Joker whips out something completely unexpected and almost out-of-character, such as Mr Freeze's Freeze Gun. He freezes the ground, Batman slips and falls, and the Joker got away. Good use of a Temp Power there.
Now it's Batman's turn to try to regroup. So he goes to the Batcave. What does he do? Bat Thermal Underwear or something. Maybe something as simple as Bat Ice Skates.
Round 2, Joker pulls out the freeze ray, uses its knockdown attack, Batman is unaffected and easily wins the fight. In this case, the empowerment buff came thru.
But there's a big difference here from what we get in-game. When the hero buffs up in comics, they WIN THE FIGHT because of the buff. The buff doesn't give them a slight edge, or keep them in it 2 seconds longer. They regroup and equip with something PERFECT. Superman doesn't buff up with just a 5% Energy Resistance lead belt buckle to fight kryptonite-powered Metallo, he wears a full radiation suit, 100% Energy Resistance end of problem. Iron Man didn't end the Armor Wars by being slightly faster or stronger or more armored, he ended them by building a gizmo that turn off his foe's armor in one shot. These are not 5% buffs. These are 100% buffs.
ok, maybe 100 is game imbalancing (though Demonic seems OK and that doesn't cost permanent resources to activate). but you get the idea. These need to be... well... gamebreaking in a PvE fight.
Considering the 2 sitations above, if I were the villain, I'd much prefer the Temp Power over the constant re-buffing.
I don't see why they just don't let the players decide if these buffs are usable or not in PvP?
In PvE I see no reason to give us run at full potential.
In the PvP arena I see two settings.
1) Base raids and arena combat.
2) The General PvP zones.
Now the arena allow the player to select to a small extent what powers are allowed. I.e. stealth or if max recovery is allowed. Why can't they do this for the base raids? Why not let the defender decide what rules they are to fight to when the challenge is issued?
For the general PvP leave the kid gloves off. It is wearing thin all the suppressions and nerfs that have come out since PvP has entered this game.
So, uh, anyone know what the numbers are for the tier 2 and tier 3 empowerment stations are?
Or if they stack?
Edit:
Oh I found them. LOL. 17 components for 5% psy resistance. What the hell.
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So, uh, anyone know what the numbers are for the tier 2 and tier 3 empowerment stations are?
Or if they stack?
Edit:
Oh I found them. LOL. 17 components for 5% psy resistance. What the hell.
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Empowerment station buffs range between pointless and insulting, but they are good if you're grinding out the # of items crafted badges.
@Mindshadow
I still say, don't underestimate the Improved Recovery and Increase Attack Rate buffs (17% recovery and 20% recharge, respectively). Knockback Protection (Mag 10) is also pretty good. The rest are...kinda "meh".
(Though I suspect the resists, even at their peasly 5%, may be of some use when stacked on top of already-good tanker resists to cap a few things out.)
Knockback is incredible. Consider the cost of 3 Base Salvage vs the cost of buying a low level KB IO, even if you need to use the Empowerment station 10 times it's better.
As for the resists, I think they're too expensive to be worth it. 1 damage type is far too limiting.
The movement speed buffs are a joke, being less buff than unslotted Fitness.
Anti-End-Drain can be useful in certain situations, like set up one person with that to handle the Rider on the Rikti TF. Of course, the trouble with that is you have to set them up before you start and hope to do the earlier missions fast enough...
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So, uh, anyone know what the numbers are for the tier 2 and tier 3 empowerment stations are?
Or if they stack?
Edit:
Oh I found them. LOL. 17 components for 5% psy resistance. What the hell.
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I'd like to know if there's a list of what salvage makes what insp's and also, does this thing make "normal" enhancements?
Thanks!
No.
It creates buffs (Temporary auto-powers) that last one hour of gameplay.
Thus
-They continue to last if you're killed in battle.
-They persist while you're logged off, and only count down when you're signed in.
Inspirations cannot be crafted at this time.
Enhancements are what the invention system is for (empowerment stations don't make them)
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Inspirations cannot be crafted at this time.
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Ok. One of the newer people in my SG was asking for something in the base that "sold" inspirations. We already have an inspiration collector so I thought he was asking for something that would allow him to get any insp's he needed, not just the ones we had in the collector...
Thanks for clearing that up.
He was probably talking about the auto-doc/tree of wonders that sells blue and green insp. earned by getting 5 million (I think) pts of healing in SG mode, and placed as an aux item in the infirmary.
@Bonker Guide to Base Building for the Small SG
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I'm wholly unimpressed with how the stations were put into place. There is little or no PvE benefit from them what's so ever.
I would have liked to be able to:
1) Select when to active the buff. Build in base but active in a mission.
2) Have each Tier station be an improvement over the lower tiered stations. I.e. tier 1 = small inspiration, tier 2 = med. inspiration and tier 3 = large inspiration.
3) Have the lengths that each buff last be based on the Tier empowerment station it was built on. I.e. tier 1 = 15min, tier 2 = 30 min, tier 3 = 45min.