Official Thread for Defense Scaling Changes
By
Alexio_DeAmore,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 13:40 in Developers' Corner
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Momemt of Glory needs to be changed. This power depends on the mobs being at 5% final to-hit. The defense bonus was formerly high enough to make that so. Now with the changes this is much less likely to happen. Only even conned minions can be capped at 5%. Every other rank of mob will be higher.
Since MoG is rarely needed fighting even cons this is a significant downgrade. Any additional damage is meaningful to MoG since the power does not allow healing or regeneration.
I recommend one of the following:
1. Remove the HP drop
2. Remove the -heal, but keep the -regen
3. Throw the power out and replace it with Overload
4. Throw the power out and make it an actual regen power
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Couldn't agree more.
Fix this poor excuse for a power please. Thanks.
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I'll still trade ya MOG for Soul Transfer
and is it me or has this become the OH NO ANOTHER ISSUE AND MORE DOOOOM FOR REGEN thread?
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I'll still trade ya MOG for Soul Transfer
and is it me or has this become the OH NO ANOTHER ISSUE AND MORE DOOOOM FOR REGEN thread?
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The first person to trot out that doom nonsense was you. And that wouldn't be a bad trade since you'll need Soul Transfer after using MoG! 
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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and is it me or has this become the OH NO ANOTHER ISSUE AND MORE DOOOOM FOR REGEN thread?
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No one is talking DOOM except you. So prehaps you should avoid such overblown statements if you don't like them.
Everyone should just get over it. This is clearly a case where the DEVs are not going to hear the players. MoG has sucked though all 7 issues. I have an MA/Regen and a Kat/regen.
Come to think of it they did fix MoG, renamed it Overload and gave it to the energy brutes. I have a 36 nrg/nrg brute and am looking forward to it. Also, I am able to take on +1 and +2 on my nrg/nrg now 
. In I6 I get whooped unless I stick to white/blue which is why my nrg/nrg is retired til I7.
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Everyone should just get over it. This is clearly a case where the DEVs are not going to hear the players. MoG has sucked though all 7 issues. I have an MA/Regen and a Kat/regen.
Come to think of it they did fix MoG, renamed it Overload and gave it to the energy brutes. I have a 36 nrg/nrg brute and am looking forward to it. Also, I am able to take on +1 and +2 on my nrg/nrg now . In I6 I get whooped unless I stick to white/blue which is why my nrg/nrg is retired til I7.
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You know, the devs may take a long time, but eventually they see reason. The AV to EB change is proof of that. It's why I can't give up. I'm not really upset about MoG, I'm just saying that the defense changes actually hurt this power.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Yeah as negative as some of my posts may come out, I renewed my subscription for 6 more months yesterday. I complain because I care
Tossing this in here since it was a literal shock to me after ~2 years of playing (and I honestly don't think I'd be the only one):
"Accuracy" Inspirations are calculated as To-Hit buffs in the formulas Aracana has shown.
As for MoG, it's the same reasoning to change as it has been since it was lastly tweaked. Decrease the duration considerably (yes, DECREASE THE DURATION), get rid of the "no healing" part during the duration and/or after, substantially reduce the recharge time. All of these things were needed before the Defense changes, and especially in light of increases to AV damage.
I've already forgotten about most of you
The last thing regens need is a fixed MoG. Regens still remain FOTM in the pvp world and need absolutely no more then they already have. If you are gonna fix anything, fix the fact that a scrapper with BU 3 slotted with tohhit (which is the norm now in PvP), and focused accuracy with 3 slotted tohit, hit my EM/EA brute everytime in the Arena on test. In fact i even respeced and took every secondary defense power and slotted them all to cap and he still hit me every single time with FA and BU 3 sloted with tohit. I on the other hand, with only BU 3 slotted with tohit hit the SR scrapper twice out of 4 times with BU up and missed almost everytime once BU dropped. I do however have 2 acc's in all my attacks. So These changes for PvE are great, but i see no reason to still take a defensive set to PvP. There is still a HUGE advantage to regen and resistence over defense.
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Everyone should just get over it. This is clearly a case where the DEVs are not going to hear the players. MoG has sucked though all 7 issues. I have an MA/Regen and a Kat/regen.
Come to think of it they did fix MoG, renamed it Overload and gave it to the energy brutes. I have a 36 nrg/nrg brute and am looking forward to it. Also, I am able to take on +1 and +2 on my nrg/nrg now . In I6 I get whooped unless I stick to white/blue which is why my nrg/nrg is retired til I7.
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Odd. My EM/EA brute was running relentless from way early on in his career. Solo of course. Overload was pure cake and icing on my ice cream. Defense scaling on top of it all? Oh my...
Very nice. In the one Grandville mission he ran last night for the Rikti, I really felt the difference. Was strange being turned intangible by that shield bearing Council boss.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Make that AV +5 and his final accuracy is 95% (bounded from 100%)
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I was not under the impression that accuracy was ever capped. Capping (or bounding, whichever name you prefer) only applied in two places I thought:
1) After the addition/subtraction of baseToHit, Defense and ToHit Buffs/Debuffs.
2) To the final chance to hit, after everything else has been applied.
Which would mean a +5 AV had a full +100% accuracy (x2, meaning a floored 10% chance to hit). Incidentally, do we know for certain if it is treated as two separate accruacy buffs (1.5 (AV) * 1.5 (Level) = 2.25, floored 11.25%) or one combined buff (1 + (0.5 + 0.5) = 2.0, floored 10.0%)?
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Love the new 'deflected' instead of 'miss'.
Actual onscreen evidence of FF buffs etc having an effect.
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Maybe now other methods of damage mitigation than TEH HEALZ will be recognised, eh? 
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Make that AV +5 and his final accuracy is 95% (bounded from 100%)
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I was not under the impression that accuracy was ever capped. Capping (or bounding, whichever name you prefer) only applied in two places I thought:
1) After the addition/subtraction of baseToHit, Defense and ToHit Buffs/Debuffs.
2) To the final chance to hit, after everything else has been applied.
Which would mean a +5 AV had a full +100% accuracy (x2, meaning a floored 10% chance to hit). Incidentally, do we know for certain if it is treated as two separate accruacy buffs (1.5 (AV) * 1.5 (Level) = 2.25, floored 11.25%) or one combined buff (1 + (0.5 + 0.5) = 2.0, floored 10.0%)?
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The confusion (my fault) was that I was struggling for a term for the final, this is their chance to hit you number.
As for your question, I believe the accuracy mods are additive. I would swear that I read that somewhere, but that might have been in my fevered imagination.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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The floor is no longer 5%. It's now 10% of the foe's base accuracy. So 6.5% for a +0 boss, 7.5% for a +0 AV, and so on, up to 9.5% "cap" on the floor.
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Ok so we have yet another stealth nerf? Awesome.
Yes, I know that this has been mentioned in random threads in the last few months. I also know that 99.9% of the player base did not read those threads. The devs listed the changes that came with I7. This wasn't listed anywhere. You know what that's called? A stealth nerf.....something they claim to "NEVER" do.......yet we have like 5 in every single issue lol.
Oh well......let's wait a month...maybe a developer will actually make a reply. Usually takes about that long.
Ok, I read all of the post here, but since I'm at work, I want to keep the thinking I do as low as possible.
I run a Controller with a lot of Defensive powers. I noticed with the latest non-Issue patch, I was getting it a lot more than normal (PvE). With the Issue Seven patch looming, which of the following should I feel:
A) Happy. As long as you keep from fighting +6 MOBs, you should notice that you're getting hit a lot less than you are now and even less than you were before the ToHit patch.
B) Content. No real bonus, but better than before. Pretty much the same as before the ToHit patch.
C) Upset. Expect to be hit more. It's gonna suck, but considering how many times your character has changed, one more won't kill him.
D) Beyond Angry. Another nerf for your build. Congrads! You've passed Regen and Super Reflexes as the most nerfed build in the game!!! You can deposit him in the crap bin and start working on the next FOTM.
From what I have read on whole defense based sets taken all in all should see this as good. In so much as they didn't floor their foes accuarcy under most circumstances anyway. Only when you could rely on flooring does it hurt. Elude and MoG can generally count on flooring even the biggest baddies. While Elude takes a hit the damage is mitigated because SR as a whole is getting a buff and they can deal with double the low amount of damage Elude lets through now. On the other hand Regen is seeing no buff and with the way MoG prevents healing for 3 minutes any extra damage can be ruinious.
If you are say a Ill/FF controller I would be happy as this helps you since most of the time you can't floor the chance to get hit so in general this is a buff. Just in rare always flooring cases is it a nerf.
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If you are say a Ill/FF controller I would be happy as this helps you since most of the time you can't floor the chance to get hit so in general this is a buff. Just in rare always flooring cases is it a nerf.
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Illusion/Kinetics, but I run a lot of toggles =)
As long as you aren't used to flooring everything in existence (read: don't have high enough defense to tank AV's in I6), you're going to be A) happy with this change.
This is a general buff to defensive sets. In limited situations, the way the mathematics works out means that certain people will get hit more - and I think that there's only one situation where this needs to be addressed - MoG. Everyone else (SR, for example) can handle it because of the general buffage.
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Odd. My EM/EA brute was running relentless from way early on in his career. Solo of course. Overload was pure cake and icing on my ice cream. Defense scaling on top of it all? Oh my...
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Agreed. I had few problems with relentless missions on live. On test, I can certainly see a difference running a four man relentless mayhem mission.
I died once when I jumped into a large psi group though of +3s . . . but that's expected.
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Make that AV +5 and his final accuracy is 95% (bounded from 100%)
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I was not under the impression that accuracy was ever capped. Capping (or bounding, whichever name you prefer) only applied in two places I thought:
1) After the addition/subtraction of baseToHit, Defense and ToHit Buffs/Debuffs.
2) To the final chance to hit, after everything else has been applied.
Which would mean a +5 AV had a full +100% accuracy (x2, meaning a floored 10% chance to hit). Incidentally, do we know for certain if it is treated as two separate accruacy buffs (1.5 (AV) * 1.5 (Level) = 2.25, floored 11.25%) or one combined buff (1 + (0.5 + 0.5) = 2.0, floored 10.0%)?
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My understanding is that the inner (additive) quantity is bounded [0.5,0.95], as is the outer, final, multiplicative quantity. This was based on Geko's "Ask Geko" description of the math.
But you're correct, that doesn't cause the result I posted above. The AV's accuracy floor would continue to climb until reached 95% (woah). I was, in late-night grogginess, thinking of the inner bounding affecting the wrong quantity.
A +3 AV would have a 9.75% minimum chance to hit you.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Love the new 'deflected' instead of 'miss'.
Actual onscreen evidence of FF buffs etc having an effect.
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Maybe now other methods of damage mitigation than TEH HEALZ will be recognised, eh?
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Yes, probably the biggest QoL upgrade for non-healers. Forcefield, Radiation and Dark will all be "appreciated" for what they do.
Still here, even after all this time!
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Love the new 'deflected' instead of 'miss'.
Actual onscreen evidence of FF buffs etc having an effect.
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Maybe now other methods of damage mitigation than TEH HEALZ will be recognised, eh?
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Yes, probably the biggest QoL upgrade for non-healers. Forcefield, Radiation and Dark will all be "appreciated" for what they do.
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My dark defender may weep for joy.
As for the defense changes, from what i've read so far i'm looking forward to testing out the changes on my SR scrapper and EA brute when i get home.
My scrapper's been running on invincible with little trouble (solo of course).
Gonna crank it up on my brute to see how she fares.
My regen just got MoG recently (morbid curiosity)...it's not TOO bad so far, i'm just waiting for the law of suckage (or is it averages) to kick in and prove to me it sucks. heh
right now my death/MoG ratio is about 2/5, i think.
Raiyna - 50 MA/Reg/Body (Liberty)
Ravyn Starr - 50 DM/EA (Liberty)
Kalathys - 6 DkCn/DkAf (Liberty)
Global Handle: @DrewBysh
I tested out my Dark/Elec defender, and my Ice/Fire tank. didn't test much with the tank, as I got called by some friends to RV, but here's my first impressions.... I am horrendously bad at math, I can't make sense of the math posts some people post, so these are just general impressions on how effective they feel...
Ice Tank, level 32, found a small group of +2 Crey with a LT, toggled up and jumped in and just stood there. It seemed to work extremely well at first, i was mostly healing back damage (I have 2 slotted Health) I took, and i liked the 'deflected!' messages above my head. it helped me see how much my armors were actually doing. towards the end, the mobs seemed to be getting more hits in, though. I got hit many times in a row and it took 3/4 of my health rapidly. I will have to test more to see if this is a fluke incident or not. maybe it was a streak breaker kicking in. all in all though, a good change. My Ice tank would normally have face planted to +2's unless i used Hoarfrost, greens, puprles, and/or killed them very quickly. will test agaisnt +3's and +4's and in larger groups as soon as I can. Energy Absorprion on this character is currently only slotted with recharge, no endmod (yet) but i seemed to be able to drain about a quarter of their blue bar.
My Dark/Elec defender (level 34) had 2 things going for her. Debuffs and End drain. A group of 5 or so +3 Freaks with 2 LT's, no bosses, were taken down with little problem aside from me sucking wind from a fight that went on a long time due to piddly damage, and running 3 toggles (Darkest Night, Shadow Fall, Acrobatics) on my part. Drop Fluffy to take the alpha, Darkest Night, Fearsome Stare, Tar Patch, then finally get down to the business of using my blasts. I was able to get them completely drained, aside from one LT who I kept missing with Short Circuit.... so I just held him instead. Short Circuit slotted with 3 endmod enhancers seemed to drain a bit over half on most mobs, so 2 applications will completley drain them. i can see this being problematic for blasters or defenders that don't have a highly defensive primary like Dark or Rad, but for me it worked well. the regular blasts seemed to me do be draining more end per hit than before, as well. +4 Council, I got pwned. 
(and yes, I tested my Dark Defender on tougher/higher conning foes than my Ice Tank.... this is because she's been able to handle +2's with ease in the past. (if they don't mez) however, it may have evened out now. Like I said, I can't log in at the moment to test my Ice against +3's and +4's at the moment. )
One thing I would LOVE to see for defenders.... the 'deflected!' message above the heads of people who avoid an attack due to debuffs. If what is said above about bubblers getting this message, that's FANTASTIC! But I didn't see this with my debuffs. One of the main problems with Dark and Rad isn't what they do, it's that other people don't realize that they are doing anything for them with the black/green clouds of doom. One reason Emps are in higher demand is that the effects of their primary are extremely obvious with an assortment of buffs and green healing numbers. It's hard for the average person to realize that Dark and Rad debuffs are flooring enemy accuracy, and a 'dodged!' or 'deflected!' message could help that.
Actually, the fact that the floor for more accurate critters is now higher than it was previously has been discussed on the boards for a while now. While the patch notes don't spell this out, it isn't new information.
That said, I'll rework the text and add it to the list. You are correct that it should have been in there.
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Actually, the fact that the floor for more accurate critters is now higher than it was previously has been discussed on the boards for a while now. While the patch notes don't spell this out, it isn't new information.
That said, I'll rework the text and add it to the list. You are correct that it should have been in there.
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**hugs castle**
your my favorite.
Member: Mutant Force Five, Chaos Legion & Team Awesome
Not really a test, but a good, quick and dirty gut-check kinda thing:
I was able (with my ice tanker) to tank Ghost Widow for approximately 5 minutes. Other than my own powers, the only buffs I saw that I was getting was Recovery/Regeneration Auras. She never one-shotted me (the whole reason I gave up trying to tank any AVs in the first place), and as far as I could tell, I only lost aggro... once? Maybe twice? For about a second, each time, if that long. She looked away, I taunted, she went right back to (trying, but failing) to take me down, while all of us continued with (trying, and failing miserably, but that's another topic) trying to take her down.