Official Thread for Stalkers: Dark Melee
By
Angry_Angel_,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 24:05 in Developers' Corner
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I have to agree, can we have a different animation for the dark melee Assassin strike. There's just something unimpressive an animation which looks like someone is squatting over a bucket with constipation.
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Really, MA, EM, and DM all have the lamest Assassin Strike compared to the coolness of Claws and Ninja Blade. Not to mention the sets should all have a unique assassination animation as a signature move of sorts.
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That said, it's silly to me that these tiny melee cones have such a small chance to crit.
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I agree.
What I think would be fair would be to give you 100% chance to crit the foe you target with a 50% chance of also critting anyone else in the AoE.
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Now THAT is a good idea.
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I'd like to third the motion !!
Centinull
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That said, it's silly to me that these tiny melee cones have such a small chance to crit.
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I agree.
What I think would be fair would be to give you 100% chance to crit the foe you target with a 50% chance of also critting anyone else in the AoE.
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Now THAT is a good idea.
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I'd like to third the motion !!
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Fourth. It didn't matter as much with Claws/, because Eviscerate's only like .2 BI more than Focus (which could be used at range to boot), and because Impale's still very good vs. Ripper (and also at range to boot)
And Martial Arts has Crippling Axe Kick AND Crane Kick Pre Eagle's Claw...
...but Dark Melee only has Smite to follow up it's AS pre Level 32 and Midnight Grasp.
Literally no other Stalker set has to put up with being so gimped in terms of guaranteed followup damage for so long.
Having to wait until 32 to be about equal (not even beat) to the other sets' burst damage, and having the attack that guarantees a crit be a DOT with the crit happeneing at the end of the DOT is a significant disadvantage, imo, and making melee cones 100% for the actual target, and 50% (or less) to others caught in the aoe would be a perfect solution for this problem, and incidentally, also to Spines/ and Claws/'s cone type powers.
Arc Salvo: Okay hold one sec guys, we can't just rush in blindly vs these Nemesis, they've got these ranged aoe's tha-
Teammate1(charging in): Shut up, Arc Salvo, you lame*$% Viewtiful Joe wannabe! What do you know?!
Teammate2(also charging): yeah, ST#& arc salvo u PWR RANGR U!
Arc Salvo: *sigh*
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I think the AS is the same as MA and EM.
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Can anyone confirm that? I seem to recall Castle inferring that it was different from MA and EM. In one of the stalker threads about it he was asked if it was like those two and he said something to the effect of 'No. I think you'll be happy with the animation.'
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
I agree, AS animation, needs serious changing, perhaps some style, like Claws or Spines, then shows you ripping out soulish dark energy out of the target. Instead the Secret Fisting, offered by EM/MA, Like we need a 3rd set, where our animation is based of some guy named Mr. Slippyfist.
JJ
I delete more 50s, then you'll ever have.
http://www.pandora.com/people/jjdemon
ninja blade also has a couple cones that could benefit from this
DM seems lackluster. Personally, I'd be really really happy if Shadow Maul were dropped and replaced with something that didn't take three seconds, even if they had to drop the BI to balance things out. The huge animation doesn't even earn an auto-crit! It can hit something like three people total and it still gets reduced.
The only thing that stands out is the fear, but EM's already got control and damage. Is there a good reason, other than concept, to play the set? I'm not feeling the dark groove here.
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I agree, AS animation, needs serious changing, perhaps some style, like Claws or Spines, then shows you ripping out soulish dark energy out of the target. Instead the Secret Fisting, offered by EM/MA, Like we need a 3rd set, where our animation is based of some guy named Mr. Slippyfist.
JJ
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ROFLMAO.....
Thanks, i needed that 
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Having to wait until 32 to be about equal (not even beat) to the other sets' burst damage, and having the attack that guarantees a crit be a DOT with the crit happeneing at the end of the DOT is a significant disadvantage, imo, and making melee cones 100% for the actual target, and 50% (or less) to others caught in the aoe would be a perfect solution for this problem, and incidentally, also to Spines/ and Claws/'s cone type powers.
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I'm not disagreeing with your general point, but I want to mention that Scrapper MG crits when the attack hits, not at the end of the dot. I would expect Stalker MG to be similar.
Also, there's always Siphon Life! 
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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I'm not disagreeing with your general point, but I want to mention that Scrapper MG crits when the attack hits, not at the end of the dot. I would expect Stalker MG to be similar.
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Hmm.. never knew that. Thanks for the info.
Still wish there was a pre-32 post-placate followup. If the tech to make cones have a 100% chance to crit on the main target only is impossible, I second the idea to replace Shadow Maul with something that isn't a 3 second DOT that roots you. Even if it did do less damage and was single target only.
Arc Salvo: Okay hold one sec guys, we can't just rush in blindly vs these Nemesis, they've got these ranged aoe's tha-
Teammate1(charging in): Shut up, Arc Salvo, you lame*$% Viewtiful Joe wannabe! What do you know?!
Teammate2(also charging): yeah, ST#& arc salvo u PWR RANGR U!
Arc Salvo: *sigh*
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The DOT has me worried. I'm concerned that it the DOT may stop a stalker from rehiding.
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I wouldn't worry too much. When my blasters are stealthed and use Ring of Fire/Electric Fence, the 10 second timer starts at power activation, so they rehide very soon after the final tick of damage, if they don't get hit.
One word to describe my initial thought would be "disappointed".
Endurance costs felt the same as the Scrapper version of the powers yet my scrapper can run dry without any toggles running pretty fast but now I don't have dark consumption to fill me back up.
Shadow Maul will be a good out of hide power but for the most part Smite will be the follow up power to AS until level 32.
Shadow Punch, Smite, Shadow Maul, and Midnight Grasp will be required to attempt any real scrapping attempt.
Stamina will be required leaving just Siphon Life and Touch of Fear to probably not find a place in a build.
Concealment of course if plan on any PvP.
Maybe the post 40 level can pick up Touch of Fear as the ToHit DeBuff is great plus not many with resistance to Fear.
Siphon Life will never find a way to any of my DM stalkers as the 10% heal tha is accuracy based with a fairly high endurance cost for the amount of damage it does just ends up being bad all around for the most part.
So I was thinking DM/SR again to match my main but knowing that EA provied better def for the same investment to all but Psi and included end recovery powers that would be the only way I could get the fexibility to make a solid DM build.
Here is my thoughts if I go forward with the DM primary.
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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
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Name:
Level: 50
Archetype: Stalker
Primary: Dark Melee
Secondary: Energy Aura
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01) --> Smite==> Acc(1)Dmg(3)Dmg(5)Dmg(11)Acc(34)Rechg(37)
01) --> Hide==> DefBuf(1)DefBuf(19)DefBuf(19)
02) --> Shadow Punch==> Acc(2)Dmg(3)Dmg(5)Dmg(15)Acc(36)Rechg(36)
04) --> Kinetic Shield==> EndRdx(4)DefBuf(11)DefBuf(13)DefBuf(15)
06) --> Assassin's Eclipse==> Acc(6)Dmg(7)Dmg(7)Dmg(9)Acc(31)Rechg(36)
08) --> Build Up==> Rechg(8)Rechg(9)Rechg(17)TH_Buf(45)TH_Buf(45)TH_Buf(46)
10) --> Hasten==> Rechg(10)Rechg(23)Rechg(23)
12) --> Placate==> Rechg(12)Rechg(13)Rechg(17)
14) --> Super Speed==> Run(14)Run(40)Run(43)
16) --> Hurdle==> Jump(16)
18) --> Health==> Heal(18)Heal(46)Heal(46)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20)EndMod(21)EndMod(21)
22) --> Entropy Shield==> EndRdx(22)
24) --> Power Shield==> EndRdx(24)DefBuf(25)DefBuf(25)DefBuf(31)
26) --> Shadow Maul==> Acc(26)Dmg(27)Dmg(27)Dmg(29)Acc(34)Rechg(37)
28) --> Energy Drain==> EndMod(28)EndMod(29)EndMod(43)
30) --> Stealth==> EndRdx(30)EndRdx(31)
32) --> Midnight Grasp==> Acc(32)Dmg(33)Dmg(33)Dmg(33)Acc(34)Rechg(37)
35) --> Invisibility==> EndRdx(35)
38) --> Overload==> DefBuf(38)DefBuf(39)DefBuf(39)Heal(39)Heal(40)Heal(40)
41) --> Moonbeam==> Acc(41)Dmg(42)Dmg(42)Dmg(42)Acc(43)IntRdx(45)
44) --> Combat Jumping==> EndRdx(44)
47) --> Touch of Fear==> Acc(47)Acc(48)TH_DeBuf(48)TH_DeBuf(48)TH_DeBuf(50)
49) --> Phase Shift==> Rechg(49)Rechg(50)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Assassination==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
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I started playing around with a DM/DA stalker last night, and:
Shadow Maul is very powerful.
Several times, I found two enemies standing close to one another and was able to shadow maul them both. I nearly always got a crit on one, and often got a crit on both.
The ability to line up shadow maul without anything seeing you or moving around in reaction to you is pretty nice.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
Oh no! The animation for Assassin's Eclipse! Eeeek! Like others have said too, it turns out it's that horribly ungraceful old twofisted animation again! Oh dear, why??
I had hoped to re-start my old MA stalker as a dark stalker, since I just couldn't stand watching the Assassin's Blow animation, every time I used it, I just got this urge to cry, and tend to log off and watch a DvD instead of playing the game. Sometimes it surprises me the things that get past QA.
<curse you demonic animators> For the love of villainy give us a different assassins strike. Heck, MA and Energy new ones too, that "Attack De Intestinal Discomfort" is awful.
To say that anything would be an improvement might be a stretch, because I suppose it could be worse, but it would be really nice to see it be something a tad more aesthetically pleasing.
I still want a Sycthe for the Assasin's strike.
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DM seems lackluster. Personally, I'd be really really happy if Shadow Maul were dropped and replaced with something that didn't take three seconds, even if they had to drop the BI to balance things out. The huge animation doesn't even earn an auto-crit! It can hit something like three people total and it still gets reduced.
The only thing that stands out is the fear, but EM's already got control and damage. Is there a good reason, other than concept, to play the set? I'm not feeling the dark groove here.
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Well, the idea of dark melee is that it clouds the target (their mind or soul or whatever) and reduces their accuracy. So it makes it easier for them to miss you and/or your teammates. So there is a difference and reason for the set. Its harder to notice something that you're reducing in someone rather than an observable damage or hold type effect. But if it was taken out without you knowing it, after a while you'd probably find yourself having tougher fights, and not knowing why. It would be because its easier for opponents to hit you more often without the accuracy debuff...
As for taking out Shadow Maul. Now I really do think you are talking as a non dark-melee player. I think Shadow Maul is the signature move of dark melee... Thats the last power I'd want taken out. If you want improvement, find a way to extend the effect, maybe extend the reach so its easier to hit a couple mobs, add a moderate duration stun effect, or I would actually love for a % chance for each hit opponent to be hit with a knockback effect. That would be great to 'bap-bap-bap' your opponent with a flurry of punchs, punctuated at the end with an uppercut that sends 'em crashing onto their back.
So, I think just adding a little more side-effectiveness is best, and keep the shadow maul. By the way, I was gonna make a separate post in answer to all those banding together on improving the Midnight Grasp cone effect, but I think it just needs a few words here. Midnight Grasp is a single target, melee range attack, a mystical choke and tentacle-hold... its not a cone. I repeat NOT A CONE. Just want to dispell the misinformation.
-Matt Blacke... lvl 36 Dark Melee/Regen , Freedom Server.
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I'm really disappointed that Shadow Maul doesn't just have bad accuracy, but the cone is too small. The enemy has to be standing directly right beside the other enemy for it to work. I understand that it's a melee attack but it wouldn't be unreasonable if the cone was made bigger or wider.
That, and the auto-crit problem.
I may be thinking too much as a scrapper here, but I was extremely disappointed to find that the stalker version of DM lost both of its AoE attacks. Why was this done? The natural counterpart of Dark Armor retained its AoEs that would cause a stalker to be unstealthed, and The Spines set still has those area attacks.
In addition to the accuracy debuffs, I always saw DM as a vampire set. Now 2 of the 3 leeching powers are gone. I was even more disturbed to find that Soul Drain was replaced with Build Up which is potentially less powerful and doesn't last nearly as long. I can't even begin to think of DM without Dark Consumption. That power got my DM/SR scrapper all the way to 50 without ever needing to take the fitness pool and I am darn proud of that. This neutered version of my favorite powerset has sapped out all of its originality and charm and instead made it a poor man's Martial Arts.
The AS animation should be some type of Siphon Life one... where you suck the soul out of your target. 
Currently roleplaying, badgehunting, and laughing at the PvPers of CoX. lol, PvP.
Truedusk - Human Rogue
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The AS animation should be some type of Siphon Life one... where you suck the soul out of your target.
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Very much agreeing here >.< this is what I actually anticipated.
As for the loss of Soul Drain; that was kind of necessary to make the set work as a *stalker* set ><
Can you imagine *trying* to AS someone when you'd have to use Soul Drain first? Impossible. To keep it on par in a stalker sense it needs build up. (Remember, you're not a scrapper!)
That said... I'm also slightly disappointed in the loss of Dark Consumption >< once you *are* out of hide there's no reason you can't use that (Look at the secondary).
Frankly I'm surprised Shadow Maul didn't get the axe... that was the power I thought looked most tempting to drop in favor of a more stalkery one. It's high DPS sure; but... it's just not... stalkery to me <,< oh well. (And no; I don't think it was ever a "signature" power of the set... I always felt Siphon Life was more signature of the set honestly).
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I started playing around with a DM/DA stalker last night, and:
Shadow Maul is very powerful.
Several times, I found two enemies standing close to one another and was able to shadow maul them both. I nearly always got a crit on one, and often got a crit on both.
The ability to line up shadow maul without anything seeing you or moving around in reaction to you is pretty nice.
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For Shadow Maul crit, does each "tick" crit?
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I started playing around with a DM/DA stalker last night, and:
Shadow Maul is very powerful.
Several times, I found two enemies standing close to one another and was able to shadow maul them both. I nearly always got a crit on one, and often got a crit on both.
The ability to line up shadow maul without anything seeing you or moving around in reaction to you is pretty nice.
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For Shadow Maul crit, does each "tick" crit?
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For Shadow Maul, you get (for example)
four ticks of X smashing + X negative
After all four ticks, you get 8x negative crit damage.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
They should just replace Shadow Maul with a new attack.. it would make the set more appealing. I miss alot, it has a LONG activation/animation length and the cone is TOO small, even for a melee power.
But man, Assassin's Eclipse kicks [censored].
I just have one complaint: There's no finishing pose.
the dark sets seem like they're made to be like weak scrappers instead of real stalkers, hence why the 2 auras were left in the armor (and we were told to just not activate them until we were already unhidden...lol)