Official Thread for Stalkers: Dark Melee
By
Angry_Angel_,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 24:05 in Developers' Corner
[ QUOTE ]
I just wanted to ask how are the end cost on the powers so far. For those that are Dark/Dark are you having extreme end issues that scrappers and brutes get with this set? Also is the AS 100% dark damage or is it split smashing/dark?
[/ QUOTE ]
While my Dark/Dark stalker is only lv 6, with SP, Smite, Hide, Dark Embrace and Assassin's, I haven't had a lick of trouble in either my HP nor End bar's. (I did have some trouble prior to getting Dark Embrace).
My first Stalker I made had Shadow Maul, ick, SP/Smite is much better for early Stalker levels than Shadow Maul. (mainly due to the lack of auto-crit status).
When I first used Assassin's, I was like, omg, not the EM/MA animation! I was about to logout, and then BLAM! This huge freaky skull flew out and nearly scared me to death. Needless to say, I'm hooked, haha.
Dark Stalkers might become the only Stalker who can fight a Scrapper with FA and win, easily. Just depending on if the Scrapper is smart enough to bring a few BF's or not, and even then a little hit and run can drain any BF's they do take (Since most non-squishies don't rely on BF's).
Damage Proc Mini-FAQ
Just noticed Damage Proc Mini-FAQ wasn't working with new forums, it's been updated.
[ QUOTE ]
Its the animation for Bitter Freeze Ray if you want to see it in action.
[/ QUOTE ]
...and Thunderous Blast.
Yeah but when's the last time you seen an elec 
I wish Corruptors had elec so I can make an elec/kin. *cry*
Just gotta say...
I love my DM/SR stalker already! I'm only a whopping level 6 atm, but I am very impressed so far. Critical Smites are awesome! The potty-squat AS animation is actually not so bad with the dark effects and freaky skull. With Focused Fighting running, my endurance usage has not been an issue yet. I'm hoping that Siphon Life will be a good heal for PvP, despite the fact that it's targetted.
Can't wait for the level bump tomorrow. I may have to take a day off of work. 
I think I feel a cold coming on. 
Thanks to the Devs for bringing my favorite melee set to my favorite AT!
[ QUOTE ]
Its the animation for Bitter Freeze Ray if you want to see it in action.
[/ QUOTE ]
Which is a slow, but cool, animation.
<----------
After playing Dark Melee for four hours in RV yesterday, I am still impressed with its performance. Midnight Grasp criticals are great. The crit damage is all negative energy - a huge plus. Assassin's Eclipse is great, of course. I skipped Shadow Maul, which I've never really liked. The animation bugs me. Not having it in my build was no problem at all.
Getting an AS off in RV was tough at times, due to the tremendous lag of my machine and the test server. MM Thugs could practically freeze my machine at times. I was able to kill a few heroes with AS, and it was very satisfying due to the fact that many heroes could see me with Hide on. I don't feel the need to use Invisibility on top of Hide in RV. I was fine without it. It's more exciting when there is a chance for you to be seen, IMO.
After two hours of playing DM/SR, I switched to DM/Regen. SR was acceptable only when Elude was running, which I really didn't like. Without Elude, I was eaten alive by scrappers. No thanks. I attempted to plug my defensive holes with the healing from Siphon Life, with no luck. SL's targetted nature makes it hard to use in many situations, including when you get nailed from behind. It was too little, too late.
Regen was great. My survivability jumped significantly when I switched. The DM/Regen power-build is now available on both sides of the law. Works for me
Looking forward to some more action today in RV. Villains FTW!
Forgot to mention - Touch of Fear is great. I wouldn't want to be without it in PvP. It causes enemies to burn through inspirations, their "oh crap" powers, and generally makes people try to scramble. It sets up successful placate/AS combos, and is just nice damage mitigation.
Can't believe anyone would suggest replacing Build-UP.
You can't have a Stalker without Build-Up. Build-Up + AS practially = Stalker. AS does a lot of damage but it does an incredible amount with Build-Up. If they skipped Build-Up there would be a lot more complaints.
Hopefully, someday they will find the time to add 1 or 2 extra powers to all the sets to add even more variety to player builds as a quality of life thing. That would be as cool as customizing power graphics IMO. The game has actually become a bit too mechanical, too much you have to have this power and that power to make a set/build. The more optional stuff the better.
Until then every set has things that would be really cool if they had been included, but there are only so many power slots. Sad but true.
----------------------------
You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
[ QUOTE ]
Can't believe anyone would suggest replacing Build-UP.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, it's pretty much mandatory since damage is balanced with it in mind. I wouldn't play without it.
I wasnt all that impressed with the damage. I am probably spoiled by playing an em/ stalker on live, but still...it didnt seem like I could do much outside of Hide. Touch of Fear is solid, indeed, but I gotta admit I like intimidate and not having to be in melee. Then again, I dont like taking challenge, so...both have their advantages. Ive never been crazy of shadow maul's animation, but I still took it because of its damage. It was decently good, but waiting for the DoT to go off is definately a pain, along with the not guarenteed crits. I was also surprised with Midnight Grasp having such a short range and the damage not being that hot.
I think its the same as /da, it will play out better in PvE then PvP. I definately did like the darkness on my hands, and having touch of fear in your primary is pretty nice.
Yeah, the damage is definitely not at the level of EM. I had very little chance to kill anyone outside of hide (anyone = scrappers/tankers). However, I'm not sure I want to pass too much judgement based upon a PvP event against primarily scrappers. I don't expect to be able to kill scrappers out of hide very often. As a stalking set, DM was very effective. BU -> AS -> ToF -> Placate -> MG -> Smite = dead victim. If I was seen prior to engaging, leading with ToF before Placate -> AS was a good way to get ahead at the beginning of an encounter. Basically, if I couldn't get an AS off against an enemy, I was in trouble. If I could land an AS, then I could get a kill the majority of the time.
As a PvP set, DM seems to definitely favor the "stalky" playstyle on teams, and not the "scrappy" playstyle solo, which was to be expected. Organized teams trump all in PvP anyway. If you are a fan of Dark Melee, PvP, and teaming, I don't think you will be disappointed by the new set. 
[ QUOTE ]
After playing Dark Melee for four hours in RV yesterday, I am still impressed with its performance. Midnight Grasp criticals are great. The crit damage is all negative energy - a huge plus. Assassin's Eclipse is great, of course. I skipped Shadow Maul, which I've never really liked. The animation bugs me. Not having it in my build was no problem at all.
Getting an AS off in RV was tough at times, due to the tremendous lag of my machine and the test server. MM Thugs could practically freeze my machine at times. I was able to kill a few heroes with AS, and it was very satisfying due to the fact that many heroes could see me with Hide on. I don't feel the need to use Invisibility on top of Hide in RV. I was fine without it. It's more exciting when there is a chance for you to be seen, IMO.
After two hours of playing DM/SR, I switched to DM/Regen. SR was acceptable only when Elude was running, which I really didn't like. Without Elude, I was eaten alive by scrappers. No thanks. I attempted to plug my defensive holes with the healing from Siphon Life, with no luck. SL's targetted nature makes it hard to use in many situations, including when you get nailed from behind. It was too little, too late.
Regen was great. My survivability jumped significantly when I switched. The DM/Regen power-build is now available on both sides of the law. Works for me
Looking forward to some more action today in RV. Villains FTW!
[/ QUOTE ]
The only reason why I haven't liked shadow maul in the past is due to the fact that, as a brute, it negates fury. With a stalker, it is fairly effective to run or hop by an enemy you just AS'ed or criticaled with MG and set off SM approximately 3 seconds from your opponent. SM after TOF is also a good use of the power. It is far better than smite and is a great way to interupt aid self in conjunction with the DOT from MG. BU + AS + SM + PLK8 + MG = low to no life left and serious disruption of aid self. Even if spammed to the point of setting it off, aid self will drain a lot of endurance.
DM can easily be the most scrappy stalker build available aside from claws. The combination of TOF and Siphon Life + debuffs and the relatively fast recharge of SM and Shadow Punch allows for survivability and a fairly decent amount of burst and DOT damage. The main issue that I have had though comes from the amount of endurance these attacks consume. I have tested out a DM/EA stalker build with good results. TOF followed by ED is nice.
[ QUOTE ]
DM can easily be the most scrappy stalker build available aside from claws.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's what I was hoping for. I found that I needed criticals to kill though, and the speed of DM attacks seemed much less advantageous in PvP, than it usually is in PvE. I really needed my "hide" to be deadly. Of course, this was against primarily scrappers, so I was definitely the underdog in most encounters. In retrospect, I should have taken Shadow Maul. The damage is needed.
[ QUOTE ]
DM can easily be the most scrappy stalker build available aside from claws.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was definitely finding touch of fear to be incredibly useful in RV on the test event. The debuff + the pause in battle was very useful when scrapping/stalking in long fights.
Its greatest use, however, will be when you run across a group of heroes battling it out in SC at a hotspot and fearfreeze them all. Then, you just sit back and watch them get mauled and taunt them over broadcast.
Ok I play a lot of stalkers and decided to give DM a try. I don't know if it's just me, but DM seems to have horrible acc. I hardly ever hit anything, when I do hit it's great, but I miss more than I hit. I'm only lvl 10 at the moment, but with the other stalker powers I never had a problem in the early lvls. Anyone else noticing this?
Honestly, I felt the same way but it mainly had to do with the fact that I was used to hitting all the time with SO's. During the level 40 bump event, I was able to hit things about as often as I do with my claws stalker. DM stalkers are in a league of their own. They are good at debuffing, have a hold, can fear and heal themselves. They are basically a good controlling element on a team with the capacity for dishing out a great deal of damage.
You can say that again.
I can't wait to start one when I7 hits the live servers.
Okay, I've been messing around with Thugs and loving every minute of it, so today I decided to take the plunge and make a Dark/ Dark Stalker.
Um, yuck! The sound effect for the first two Dark Armors (other than Hide) did not work for me. Ten minutes in I started having a dull headache, then some nausea. First time in my life a game has done that.
No, it's not related to my physical condition. As soon as I exited the symptoms left. It's definitely the sound.
To be fair, I have never tried any Dark Armor-capable AT, so I cannot say anything beyond my one, single, very short experience with Dark Amor for the Stalker in the form currently on test. If this is the same sound effect you've used on other ATs, then it is probably safe to assume I alone in all the world am incompatible with this sound effect.
Nonetheless, I had to let you know.
================================================== ===
AE Story Arc #536752: Torn Asunder
An army from far, far away has been driven from their homeland and landed on Earth. They desperately need a new home and they're liking the look of ours.
================================================== ===
Wrong Thread Chief...
the Whining about /DA's sound effects is on the Dark Armor thread.
I'm not a stalker (40 SS/EA Brute & 40 Nec/DM MM), but i figured the RV event would be a good chance to try some. I've had experience with DM on my 49 DM/DA Scrapper. I rather enjoyed the DM Stalker set (didnt see the skull on Eclipse). I can see it's potential to be fairly great. Mostly Negative damage, all with -Acc is a good combo. I agree that for a stalker the animation time on Maul is probably too long. And i had a hard time telling if Maul crit, even while hidden. MGrasp crit nicely tho =) and ToF is essentially another Placate without the auto-re-hide (properly slotted it might as well be since mobs wont attack thru fear giving you time to rehide). I also agree that Siphon Life, unless you need a heal and dont get it elsewhere, is not worth it. It has horrible Acc, and costs too much End for too little Heal. All in all, I tend to agree with what most are saying here: Maul needs it's crit looked at and bettered, another Moderate-High attack should be added, preferable replacing Siphon Life, and the power-squat is cheesy in it's own right but since EA and MA share it that makes it worse (keep the skull!)
In all honesty, this set has enough high damaging attacks with interesting effects and utility on the side. Comparing Shadow Maul to Ripper, it comes slightly ahead. The animation time is a bit longer but you get a full 6.0bi of damage out of it and the DoT disrupts interupt prone powers like aid self. Used in conjunction with Midnight Grasp's DoT, you get a steady flow of damage that will follow an opponent close to death as it tries to flee. Thats the thing, following up an AS with SM and placate + MG and only Tanks and regen scrappers will be left with the urge to stick around. After that, ToF them. Ripper doesn't have a guranteed crit nor does it have a guranteed 6bi of damage. It has a longer recharge time and costs a lot more endurance to use.
DM is a bag of tricks, high damage stalker primary that doesn't need any changes and it doesn't suffer the same problems that brutes and scrappers do. Brutes suffer due to the long animation's effect on fury. Scrappers need a steady chain of frequent attacks to increase the probability of scoring a high damage yet unpredictable critical.
I agree, the the necrorectal squat needs to be reevaluated for the Assassin's Eclipse animation.
Siphon Life, used right before a placate = quick HP prior to running and rehiding or hitting opponent with MG + ToF. It would be nice if the animation time was cut a bit, but it really isn't necessary.
On top of all this, the stacking of -acc is a great way to negate the doom associated with FA.
Just wanted to say that out of all the AT and powerset options available to me in COV, Dark Stalkers are my favorite. Thanks for giving us these.
Level 50s:
BlackSpectre, Dark Defender (Guardian)
Thorin, Invul/Axe Tank (Justice)
Volcano Juice, Fire/Stone Tank
Professor ?, Mind/FF Controller
Stone Forge, Stone/Fire Tank
Its the animation for Bitter Freeze Ray if you want to see it in action.