Official Thread for Masterminds: Thugs
By
008Zulu,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 11:49 in Developers' Corner
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A couple of things:
1. Crey agents were using the pistol model thug MMs get long before Longbow ever existed.
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Crey tech would make a little bit of sense though. They're evil.
While I do agree that the tier1 Thugs probably should have an automatic of somesort, I don't think the MM him/herself should have the same style of Pistol.
The MM should have something sleek, and sophisticated (Look at the Merc/Robot rifles. They scream I'm an MM weapon to me. The Bow as well is sleek and sophisticated, but hey, I'm partial to archery).
I just feel, the MM Pistol should atleast be something thats unique or atleast elitist I suppose. Not some weapon that a large majority of NPC's use. Something like James Bond's weapon of choice. Who else used it? Practically no one in the movies.
Maybe something like one of the main characters Pistols from Trigun (I mean like Vash's, or Brilliant Dynamites Neon's gun, leader of the Bad Lad Gang, episode 7). Just something that kinda stands out.
I suppose to sum up what I would like, is for the pistols to stand out and invoke "Whoa, those are cool" aside from them being dual-wield.
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I was updating my Mastermind Notes for Version 3.0 for Issue 7 and I noticed that the Recharge Times on all three teirs of henchmen are still set at Very Long. This is obviously incorrect as I know from previously stated notes that the recharge times for the 1st and 3rd Tier henchmen have been changed.
What is now the new appropriate term for the recharge times for all tiers?
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I was updating my Mastermind Notes for Version 3.0 for Issue 7 and I noticed that the Recharge Times on all three teirs of henchmen are still set at Very Long. This is obviously incorrect as I know from previously stated notes that the recharge times for the 1st and 3rd Tier henchmen have been changed.
What is now the new appropriate term for the recharge times for all tiers?
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Level 1 60s, level 2 90s, level 3 90s.
Your missing the point I think, thugs MM's are basically thugs themselves. They live cheap and nasty, so picking up a common pistol, or heck, killing a couple of longbow and taking theirs works nicely! I would find it distracting to be running around with a bunch of bargin basement low-lifes robbing banks with some futuristic Tech-War gizmo gun. A big blocky pistol fits the bill remaining true to the "character" (of the set) while still seeming imposing.
And yet, I'd have to say you're missing the point.
My Thugs MM, is actually a Hacker/Techie. She makes incredible gadgets out of seemingly junk, and is also able to get her hands on top secret gear. Why is she a thugs MM? Because her brother is over-protective and has his posse constantly following and protecting her to their deaths (Though, she's hacked into the med-ports for her brother and his posse, so they're unable to be hi-jacked, or killed. She winds up in the jails of missions because it's fun breaking out).
My friends Thugs MM, is an ex-cop. A corrupt cop. She used her connections, many illegal connections, to spring some thugs who now work for her. Doing her dirty work for her to work off their 'debt' they owe her.
In the end, I -still- think that the Thugs MM's pistol should be more than the most basic of basic. The basic of basic is what you give to your underlings, while you hold onto the good stuff, and ya give the best stuff to your 'Second in Command' (The third tier pets). And I would have to say that for Mercs, and Robots that holds very well true.
I'm not asking to have Laser pistols or some such, just something sleeker and more Mastermindly.
"As a Mastermind, you excel at using others to do your dirty work. Perhaps you build killer robots, command deadly Ninja, order hardened soldiers, or summon the undead to do your bidding. Whatever your choice, you have an army of minions at your beck and call. You can summon them when needed, order them to work your will, and even use your own powers to enhance them or weaken your foes." - CoV in-game
The Joker, is someone that I see as a Thugs MM. Surely you can't think his minions are more than common street-filth. But, does the Joker use the most basic of basic weapons, and tools? I think not.
"mas·ter·mind
A highly intelligent person, especially one who plans and directs a complex or difficult project" - dictionary.com
To say a Thugs MM is a thug himself, is like saying Robotics MM's are Robots, or that Necromancy MM's are undead. They're not always, some are, and some aren't.
Just looking at the in-game description for MM's, and the dictionary definition of the word, I feel the Thugs MM weapon is lacking the feeling that it belongs to a MM. It's missing that sleekness that says, "I'm in-charge." No one else feels that missing? Maybe I'm just crazy, maybe I'm the only one looking past dual-wield (gawd is it sweet though)? I dunno. Just wanted my two-bits out there for sleeker pistols.
Would be better if we could choose how our guns look, so some can have sleek and others can have, uh, blockiness?
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I was updating my Mastermind Notes for Version 3.0 for Issue 7 and I noticed that the Recharge Times on all three teirs of henchmen are still set at Very Long. This is obviously incorrect as I know from previously stated notes that the recharge times for the 1st and 3rd Tier henchmen have been changed.
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What is now the new appropriate term for the recharge times for all tiers?
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Level 1 60s, level 2 90s, level 3 90s.
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So the description should read?
Teir 1 : Recharge Time: Long
Teir 2 : Recharge Time: Very Long
Teir 3 : Recharge Time: Slow
I think it goes: Very Fast, Fast, Moderate, Long, Very Long, Slow, Very Slow, Extreme as far as the order of their recharge speed adjectives.
Thug weapons.... blah ... trenchcoats a plus.
Get ready, I'm going to start a fire.
There is a single issue here that would fix everyones complaints about the way things look.
Where are my customizable weapon GFX that were promised.... you know what I'm talkin about 
Don't make me go dig out the quote from all the way back to the first "Statesman Says"
I'll just summarize:
" We hope to have new choices for customizing the way scrapper weapons/tanker/assault rifle looks by the end of the year " Ask statesman somewhere around the beta for villains .. not too sure about the date ... I have selective memory remembering whats beneficial and usefull (selfishly and arrogantly so) and not too much of the details. Go look for it .. its there in the Dev corner.
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ok,
does the gangsta-**sideways**-holding-pistol shooting position bother anyone? (yea I shoot RL 
)
yech, 
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Well, you have to realize that they're using custom weapons with the HoMeBoY ·Nyte-Sytes·. 
"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers
Just a comment to the devs: The fix to gang war was just what i wanted and it works like it should have now. Not over powered but still usefull and worth taking/slotting. GJ
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I'm not asking to have Laser pistols or some such, just something sleeker and more Mastermindly.
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The Joker, is someone that I see as a Thugs MM. Surely you can't think his minions are more than common street-filth. But, does the Joker use the most basic of basic weapons, and tools? I think not.
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To be fair, you specifically said you would like something like the Robots MM Pulse rifle in your first post, a weapon that is in fact a laser gun
Also, as a big honking Joker fan, I do have to take issue with that just a bit. Joker freqently makes use of very imaginative and gimmicky weapons but he also frequently just pulls a normal gun or knife, or even just whacks Bats with a big ol' fish near-by (or something equally common and rediculous).
I understand your point that a robot MM need not be a robot, but that is less applicable for Thug MMs for an obvious reason, mercs. If you want to be a tactical professional, or a group of specialist jewel thieves, or what have you, but still keep your character grounded in reality, you have the lovely Merc set with its Natural origin style guys and their well-oiled ruthlessness. With that set availible, it does pigeon hole Thug MM's a bit into being lower brow criminals. After all, if your such a pro, why are you runnning around with street freaks and not Tac-Ops assasins? I'm not saying you can't have a concept that runs counter to that, but the set does lend itself more in that direction.
Of course, we can all agree that power customization would slove any RP prob. "Thug" thugs can keep their hand-cannons, Trigun fans can get their revolvers, and fashionable thugs can get some "sleeker" gun.
The Thugs are crackheads I am sure that is why they behave as they do.
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Not sure if this is should go under Thugs or Bodyguard, and it may be premature. When I'm putting my pets into Def/Follow mode, they seem to go crazy and run all over the place. I have 5 MM characters on live, and my main in CoV beta was an MM. I'm used to the quirky behavior that comes along with MM pets, but I'm seeing some particularily stupid behavior from the pets.
For instance, when I first started off in Mercy near Kalinda, I summoned a Punk and put him in Def/Follow. He proceeded to follow me for a few seconds, then started running back and forth for about 30 seconds. He then ran up to the edge of the fort wall and jumped over. He managed to make his way back up by the ramps, then proceeded to jump over again. I seen similar behavior before, but only when teamed with other MMs and the pets run off to help them. I wasn't teamed here tho, and I've never noticed a pet do that before.
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Maybe have a human sounding whicle than the plastic toy type.
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1) PLEASE find another emote for thugs, i can imagion the fotm's all thug mm's and when they summon their punks, the whistling gonna be horrorible, it's cool for while, but seriously people will just learn to shut their sound off cause it's gonna be VERY annoying....
2) my god i almost thought Steve Urkle from family matters was my thug!!! please make the punks more thugy wifebeater shirts or tank top punks, street pants or shorts, NOT KHAKI's!! lol...
but anyhow, i'm so gonna roll a thug/dark likew i planned, just hope these short issues do get some help =D
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Would love to see some level of customization of appearance for mastermind pets sometime down the road.
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This thread is solely for discussions regarding Mastermind Thugs (Primary Set). From the Issue 7 Training Room patch notes:
"New Power Sets
Mastermind Primary Thugs"
All off topic posts will be removed. Please do not post bugs/feedback/balance issues before testing this content. All bugs/feedback/balance issues should be posted AFTER playing a Mastermind Thug.
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The Thugs are crackheads I am sure that is why they behave as they do.
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Don't be ridiculous. Crackheads run faster than masterminds' thugs. (But then, so does Stephen Hawking.)
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First Tier:
- Blayde
- Laser
- Blazer
Second Tier:
- Castor
- Pollux
Third Tier:
- Gades
Cookies to those who can make out any of the three references. =O
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I haven't read the entire thread, so it probably has already been pointed out/explained, but...
Tier 1 = Dodgeball ref 
(I completely loved that movie. Lance Armstrong had best cameo ever)
Tier 2 = Gemini Twins, the brothers from Face Off, and a few other places.
Don't get Tier 3.
To keep this On Topic:
Someone mentioned that they didn't think that poison worked well with the Thugs - may I ask why, or what you found lacking?
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To be fair, you specifically said you would like something like the Robots MM Pulse rifle in your first post, a weapon that is in fact a laser gun
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True, I did say something like the Robots rifle. But, I did not mean it to be some laser pistol.
I have seen some sleek black pistols that higher level enemies use, and I think something like the Malta Gunslingers would look sweet. I don't think that would be 'too' high tech?
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Also, as a big honking Joker fan, I do have to take issue with that just a bit. Joker freqently makes use of very imaginative and gimmicky weapons but he also frequently just pulls a normal gun or knife, or even just whacks Bats with a big ol' fish near-by (or something equally common and rediculous).
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Haha, quite true he does. Maybe my memory is a bit off, but I do recall Joker using stuff a bit above the basic of the basic more often then not. (Poison gas, laughing gas, seems a bit out of league for a mere thug, atleast for me).
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Of course, we can all agree that power customization would slove any RP prob. "Thug" thugs can keep their hand-cannons, Trigun fans can get their revolvers, and fashionable thugs can get some "sleeker" gun.
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I just really hope they do give us power customization and soon. At the bare minimum, weapon customization. 
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After all, if your such a pro, why are you runnning around with street freaks and not Tac-Ops assasins?
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Not sure where you're coming with this? Neither me, nor my friends Thugs MM are high enough on the influence ladder to have a personal army. Instead, we've resorted to family member's connections, and illegal corrupt connections respectively.
While I do agree that Thugs are lower tier, there is still a lot of room between Mercs and Thugs. (Which I think Joker is somewhere inbetween there, no? He's more than common street-filth like the men he uses, which was my point in the previous post though it was kinda fuzzy)
Well, alright, this'll be my last post in this thread. I love the Thugs Pets, they fit really nicely (except for the Revolvers, would be better as automatics if they can't get shell ejecting right on Revolvers). And we all agree that we need Weapon customization to better fit our character concepts. Think we all agree on this short little paragraph, ya?
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The Thugs are crackheads I am sure that is why they behave as they do.
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Don't be ridiculous. Crackheads run faster than masterminds' thugs. (But then, so does Stephen Hawking.)
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Okay, I lied one more post to this thread.
HAHAHAHAHAHA. That had me laugh.
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Tier 1 = Dodgeball ref (I completely loved that movie. Lance Armstrong had best cameo ever)
Tier 2 = Gemini Twins, the brothers from Face Off, and a few other places.
Don't get Tier 3.
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Very good. =D They were, in fact, Dodgeball and Face/Off references. Tier 3 is a reference to one of the Sinistrals in Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals (a very, very impressive RPG from the SNES days).
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Each day I play my Thug MM, I grow more and more curious as to why my Thugs have Revolvers. They should all have... dual RCP-90's. =D
OK, finally got to level 32. Found one problem, one concern, one question, and one art critique.
The problem: If you apply the second upgrade while the first upgrade is still playing, the thug will "flicker" back and forth between the two models until dismissed. The only way to prevent this, someone was kind enough to tell me, is to wait until the 1st upgrade is done before applying the 2nd.
The concern: Is the rate of fire on MM/Thugs/Bruiser/Hurl right? Part of me hopes that it is, but for an attack with that much damage it seems to have an awfully high rate of fire. I can almost justify it, because when the Bruiser gets stuck in the pack (which he seems to do about half the time) he has that ranged attack to fall back on. On the other hand, wow is that a lot of ranged damage for what is basically a brute.
The question: Does the MM/Thugs/Enforcer/Assault buff include +Res(Confuse)? Why or why not?
The art critique: The fully upgraded Enforcer wears a necktie? And the fully upgraded Bruiser wears a pastel blue and purple batik disco shirt with a butterfly collar, open to the waist? That's not the kind of menacing thug I had in mind. 
Oh, yeah, and one possibly unrelated question for the developers: Did you do something to the pet/minion AI regarding "follow" mode and Oranbegan portals? I just did a mission that was filthy with them, and not once did one of my thugs fail to follow me through the portal. Even on the one with a random destination, they all showed up where I was. That boggled my mind! If you fixed that, it should make it into the final patch notes before people use their freespec (assuming there will be one), because that's one of the big reasons why nearly all MMs take Pool/Teleport/Recall Friend.
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OK, finally got to level 32. Found one problem, one concern, one question, and one art critique.
The problem: If you apply the second upgrade while the first upgrade is still playing, the thug will "flicker" back and forth between the two models until dismissed. The only way to prevent this, someone was kind enough to tell me, is to wait until the 1st upgrade is done before applying the 2nd.
The concern: Is the rate of fire on MM/Thugs/Bruiser/Hurl right? Part of me hopes that it is, but for an attack with that much damage it seems to have an awfully high rate of fire. I can almost justify it, because when the Bruiser gets stuck in the pack (which he seems to do about half the time) he has that ranged attack to fall back on. On the other hand, wow is that a lot of ranged damage for what is basically a brute.
The question: Does the MM/Thugs/Enforcer/Assault buff include +Res(Confuse)? Why or why not?
The art critique: The fully upgraded Enforcer wears a necktie? And the fully upgraded Bruiser wears a pastel blue and purple batik disco shirt with a butterfly collar, open to the waist? That's not the kind of menacing thug I had in mind.
Oh, yeah, and one possibly unrelated question for the developers: Did you do something to the pet/minion AI regarding "follow" mode and Oranbegan portals? I just did a mission that was filthy with them, and not once did one of my thugs fail to follow me through the portal. Even on the one with a random destination, they all showed up where I was. That boggled my mind! If you fixed that, it should make it into the final patch notes before people use their freespec (assuming there will be one), because that's one of the big reasons why nearly all MMs take Pool/Teleport/Recall Friend.
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Sounds more like the final upgrade turns you into a Mafia organization.
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OK, finally got to level 32. Found one problem, one concern, one question, and one art critique.
The problem: If you apply the second upgrade while the first upgrade is still playing, the thug will "flicker" back and forth between the two models until dismissed. The only way to prevent this, someone was kind enough to tell me, is to wait until the 1st upgrade is done before applying the 2nd.
The concern: Is the rate of fire on MM/Thugs/Bruiser/Hurl right? Part of me hopes that it is, but for an attack with that much damage it seems to have an awfully high rate of fire. I can almost justify it, because when the Bruiser gets stuck in the pack (which he seems to do about half the time) he has that ranged attack to fall back on. On the other hand, wow is that a lot of ranged damage for what is basically a brute.
The question: Does the MM/Thugs/Enforcer/Assault buff include +Res(Confuse)? Why or why not?
The art critique: The fully upgraded Enforcer wears a necktie? And the fully upgraded Bruiser wears a pastel blue and purple batik disco shirt with a butterfly collar, open to the waist? That's not the kind of menacing thug I had in mind.
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Assault is res placate/taunt. Tactics would resist confuse As for the ranged damage on hurl, I think they shifted brute numbers on ranged attacks to their melee number. Or never included that on the bruiser.
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The concern: Is the rate of fire on MM/Thugs/Bruiser/Hurl right? Part of me hopes that it is, but for an attack with that much damage it seems to have an awfully high rate of fire. I can almost justify it, because when the Bruiser gets stuck in the pack (which he seems to do about half the time) he has that ranged attack to fall back on. On the other hand, wow is that a lot of ranged damage for what is basically a brute.
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Well speaking from experience as a Tanker having used Hurl, it does about the same damage as Haymaker (the double overhand attack-exactly like Air Superiority-and since I'd expect the Enforcer to have Haymaker and not Air Supe when u see that attack compare contrast w/ his Hurl damage.) all things being equal, ie slottage, buffage etc. Which will be the case w/ the minion since all attacks are based off the same slots.
As far as the rate of fire, having not seen the MM pets in action I can't confirm/deny, but the power itself on a Tanker at least has a moderate recharge, its 'downside' is the longish (3 sec or so ) animation.
Hope this helps...
LUFIA II .. heck yeah gimme a monster capsule MM
On thugs... that word seems to be a general term, accurate, but general.
It seems tier 1 is some Bloods, while tier 2 wants to be a stereotyped yakuza from numerous anime, and tier 3 is a member of hell's angels.
What occurs to me is that the comic book/movie/anime/novel villain Masterminds have one thing in common : all thier minions fit and in some cases resemble one another. I'll give you a bad example :P Cobra commander is you .. while destro is your teir 3, higher level soldiers like the crimson guard (god I feel nerdy by this point) are your tier 2, and the basic blue uniformed crunchies as your tier 1.
We know this ... we watched that stuff when we were like ... 5-9 years old. (those as old as I am)
This thug set. . . the word thug is accurate. In my opinion ,however, they might wanna consider making the thugs match just a little better. To use an example most will understand, you don't see a Vanessa de Vore runnin around with a ring mistress, 2 freaks, and 3 clocks :P
What separates this game from all the others of its kind is the customizability. (there are many many other things, but this one is the most promenant).
I'm not saying you can't design/roleplay arond it, just seems to be one of those ensamble's you're wife would yell at you for, telling you that you dont match/you're color blind, and she would be embarassed to be seen in public with you :P
I'll end with this for you CSS fans
Pusherbot voted for de_customizableGFX
P.S. there are fixes and patches for that game if you like emulators ... assuming of course you still own the game ... wouldn't want to do anything illegal check the gamefaqs forums.
P.P.S. wow .. someones really gonna flame me for this one
P.P.P.S. lvl 97 of the 99lvl dungeon baby
Okay, am I the only one wishing there was an emote that set all the thugs in formation with me, and then we all did the "Beat It" dance?
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4. Where are the f*&#$ing trenchcoats!!?? *takes a deep breath*
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On the Enforcers...