I've given up trying to re-learn my characters. I haven't respecced since I4, unless it was for purely character-based reasons (after Fantastic Four came out, my force field defender just =had= to have Invisibility!).
I've learned it doesn't matter what we want, the game is going to change to discourage powerleveling. A fact I like to point out every time a PLer says, "PLing doesn't hurt anyone! Why can't I do it if I want?"
Remember kids, PLing hurts you. And your little dog too.
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
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You know...I am not sure I like this patch. I am not really feeling the DOOM here. 
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True. I'm feeling the AW SHUCKS!!!
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The only thing constant in MMos, IMHO, is change. You can always count on new content, power changes (for better or worse), changes in players, changes in attitude, etc.
Changes will always happen in MMOs. Not all of them will be good for everyone. You can't please all the people all of the time. However, those who can't accept change, adapt to change, or can't offer constructive criticism on these changes, are usually doomed to dissapointment.
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I got the "change" part... sure without change things get old. I even get the "Not good for everyone" part. Most of my issues with the changes are those that are not good for anyone! As I stated in a previous post.... that no one answered...
What players were hurt / benifited by the altering of perma-hasten, Burn, Phase-shift, ED etc?
Does anyone enjoy having these altered, jump up and say "Yahoo! Phase-shift is only good for 30 seonds now" or "Thank goodness Burn no longer agros and actually makes them run away"?
As for falling one deaf ears, I hope your wrong, but you maybe right. I will say that has neveer stopped me from voicing my opinions. As a matter of fact, any one who read these boards and offers opinion one way or another are people who care.... I do believe that and if I just become one of the lemmings that never speaks up, then I am doing myself an injustice....
Peace!
[color=yellow]Great Mephesto - 50 - Ill/Emp Controller - Liberty Badges 342
Cremospecter - 50 - Fire/Fire Tanker - Liberty Badges 158
[color=orange]All Hollows Eve -50 Dark Mastermind - Freedom Badges 352
[color=orange]Mad Houdini - 39 - Eng/Regen Stalker - Liberty Badges 156
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every time a PLer says, "PLing doesn't hurt anyone! Why can't I do it if I want?"
Remember kids, PLing hurts you. And your little dog too.
--NT
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NT... can you explain that?
I don't PL, but I still want to know how those things that do not effect other players hurts anyone.
[color=yellow]Great Mephesto - 50 - Ill/Emp Controller - Liberty Badges 342
Cremospecter - 50 - Fire/Fire Tanker - Liberty Badges 158
[color=orange]All Hollows Eve -50 Dark Mastermind - Freedom Badges 352
[color=orange]Mad Houdini - 39 - Eng/Regen Stalker - Liberty Badges 156
[ QUOTE ]
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every time a PLer says, "PLing doesn't hurt anyone! Why can't I do it if I want?"
Remember kids, PLing hurts you. And your little dog too.
--NT
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NT... can you explain that?
I don't PL, but I still want to know how those things that do not effect other players hurts anyone.
[/ QUOTE ]
Because it causes Dev Teams to switch into Rabid Hunter-Seeker Mode as they exhaust every possible resource in a useless, self-defeating operation to stop powergamers in their tracks. They can't win this battle and they can't stand the fact that they can't----but like moths to a gas lamp, they nevertheless keep circling, waiting to pounce on them again.
In my experience, this does nothing but make the general customer base angry. Sure, it takes time for the majority of players to realize what's going on, but eventually they do and they get fed up and move on. The powergamers stay to thwart them again or move on to their next target game.
Cal2
The problem is that everyone has a different idea of how the game should and shouldn't work. Certain things in the game had an intention to work a certain way. Others find ways to do things differently, sometimes at the cost of other players' enjoyment of the game. Ultimately, scenarios such as these affect a thing's use and perception.
In other words, what some players consider bonuses of a power are considered by other players and devs to be either unintended effects or exploits. When these things get changed, players who were using these bonuses feel as if they have been slighted, when in fact devs never intended for the effect to happen.
Some changes happen because of PvP, whereas a player uses an exploit against another player. While some effects of a power can be changed purely for PvP, technical boundaries sometimes will dictate that a change must be made to the power itself. In these cases, you can usually thank your fellow players for absuing a power into change.
This is not an end-all-be-all to every change that happens in the game, but most changes to powers usually revolve around these scenarios.
That is not to say that opinions don't matter, but offering sound arguments or ways in which things could be better but not exploitable are better ways to get a point across. Posts hardly fall upon deaf ears - many changes in the game have come directly from these forums thanks to sound arguments, constrictive criticism, and player enginuity
Although some changes or ideas cannot be implimented due to technical limitations, it is better to post ideas than not to post them at all.
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You know...I am not sure I like this patch. I am not really feeling the DOOM here.
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True. I'm feeling the AW SHUCKS!!!
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Back in the day people went all out with the Doom. Today's Doom posts don't seem to really have much oomph.
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The problem is that everyone has a different idea of how the game should and shouldn't work. Certain things in the game had an intention to work a certain way. Others find ways to do things differently, sometimes at the cost of other players' enjoyment of the game. Ultimately, scenarios such as these affect a thing's use and perception.
In other words, what some players consider bonuses of a power are considered by other players and devs to be either unintended effects or exploits. When these things get changed, players who were using these bonuses feel as if they have been slighted, when in fact devs never intended for the effect to happen.
Some changes happen because of PvP, whereas a player uses an exploit against another player. While some effects of a power can be changed purely for PvP, technical boundaries sometimes will dictate that a change must be made to the power itself. In these cases, you can usually thank your fellow players for absuing a power into change.
This is not an end-all-be-all to every change that happens in the game, but most changes to powers usually revolve around these scenarios.
That is not to say that opinions don't matter, but offering sound arguments or ways in which things could be better but not exploitable are better ways to get a point across. Posts hardly fall upon deaf ears - many changes in the game have come directly from these forums thanks to sound arguments, constrictive criticism, and player enginuity
Although some changes or ideas cannot be implimented due to technical limitations, it is better to post ideas than not to post them at all.
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Obsidius... I'm sure your right on all of those fronts.
I don't do PVP because I don't beleive is manking a cookie cutter / stock Toons. I try all different angles and see the affect of different enhancements.
My 2nd toon was Great Mephesto, I ran him for a year plus with 6 slot hasten and 2 recharges on my Phantasm. It would allow me tha ability to have 2 going at any given time. This inabled me to solo at almost the level of tanks because I made up for the sqishyness with firepower. I worked my way to 50 at an average clip. I even enjoyed playing him when I had no missions left.
When ED came out I lost the Perma-hasten and could get only 1 Phantasm at a time and a lot more down time with the phantom Army. It has made him difficult to play even with Fire Blaster as an epic power
I do not feel because some people "abuse" the system that I should lose the fun of running my favorte toon. That is poor customer service.
It is my opinion, and I maybe wrong, it is the companies intention to slow the leveling so as to keep people playing longer. After all, the primary point of business is to make money. I don't fault them for that desire. That still does not change the fact that Great Mephesto is not the powerful toon he was when he hit 50. He is now more like my level 32 earth controller that still has a hard time soloing. Now I only log GM to collect lower badges I have missed... that is pretty sad.
If they want to stop the power levling, put a daily cap on levls over 10 to 15. after that point it is far more difficult to level more than once a day anyway. Or change the rules for PVP. I'm sure that can be done since you can only use temp power you buy in the arena.
Then give me back my abilities.... maybe Im just cranky today. forgive me if I come across that way 
[color=yellow]Great Mephesto - 50 - Ill/Emp Controller - Liberty Badges 342
Cremospecter - 50 - Fire/Fire Tanker - Liberty Badges 158
[color=orange]All Hollows Eve -50 Dark Mastermind - Freedom Badges 352
[color=orange]Mad Houdini - 39 - Eng/Regen Stalker - Liberty Badges 156
[ QUOTE ]
Because it causes Dev Teams to switch into Rabid Hunter-Seeker Mode as they exhaust every possible resource in a useless, self-defeating operation to stop powergamers in their tracks. They can't win this battle and they can't stand the fact that they can't----but like moths to a gas lamp, they nevertheless keep circling, waiting to pounce on them again.
[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps it is the obsessive compulsive nature of the devs regarding a futile endeavor that actually hurts the playerbase.
I don't PL personally, but I can never get behind the belief that it's ok to blame everyone under the sun except those directly implimenting the offending changes.
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Because it causes Dev Teams to switch into Rabid Hunter-Seeker Mode as they exhaust every possible resource in a useless, self-defeating operation to stop powergamers in their tracks. They can't win this battle and they can't stand the fact that they can't----but like moths to a gas lamp, they nevertheless keep circling, waiting to pounce on them again.
[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps it is the obsessive compulsive nature of the devs regarding a futile endeavor that actually hurts the playerbase.
I don't PL personally, but I can never get behind the belief that it's ok to blame everyone under the sun except those directly implimenting the offending changes.
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You bring up a good point. It's like the RIAA assuming everyone is stealing music through file sharing. The more they push on the these people through litigation and ludicrous lawsuits, the more customers they alienate, either directly or through bad press.
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I do not feel because some people "abuse" the system that I should lose the fun of running my favorte toon. That is poor customer service.
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I agree it's not very fair to those of us "playing by the rules" also have to pay the price when it comes to stopping certain players from doing certain actions. However, I also understand how difficult a job the devs must have in pleasing the upper management while pleasing the player base.
I see commercials sometimes on TV advertising how I could be in the exciting world of the gaming industry developing video games. Then I thought about how much pressure a dev programming for CoX must have, with release schedules and launch dates and testing and bug fixes, etc.
Then South Park came on and I forgot about it (j/k )
But seriously, I could only speculate the devs have a hard time with keeping the game "balanced" whil trying not to cheese too many existing players, especially with two games being played on three continents.
In comparison, SWG changed their whole class system a over 2 years after release. So I guess it could be worse. Just glad I never started playing that game
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You know...I am not sure I like this patch. I am not really feeling the DOOM here.
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True. I'm feeling the AW SHUCKS!!!
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Back in the day people went all out with the Doom. Today's Doom posts don't seem to really have much oomph.
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</sarcasm at the end of the OP>
=/
This space is intentionally left blank.
I think the commentary on the mildness of 'doom' posts was more in the general than the specific.
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In comparison, SWG changed their whole class system over 2 years after release. So I guess it could be worse.
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Don't even get me started on the SWG changes. Must. Control. Fist. Of. Death.
Heh, a Doom post on how Doom posts aren't Doomy enough.
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In comparison, SWG changed their whole class system over 2 years after release. So I guess it could be worse.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't even get me started on the SWG changes. Must. Control. Fist. Of. Death.
Heh, a Doom post on how Doom posts aren't Doomy enough.
[/ QUOTE ]
They changed it more than once, and just recently again it is a new game.
The equivelant of ED was done every few weeks on that damn game. (and yeah im an idiot for playing it for the years I did, sucker for punishment I guess)
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I've just seen less and less dev posts as the amount of dev bashing has been going up.
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If I'm not mistaken, there's always been a downturn in the number of dev posts during the last push before an issue hits the test server. Usually we'll only have one or two threads that discuss a proposed change (and you'll obviously have Devs responding to those threads) and the occasional silly reply that doesn't require a whole lot of time investment to make. Other than that, the Dev's highest priority is almost certainly I7, whose eminent arrival is taking the bulk of their time.
While the dev bashing may be going up (it doesn't seem to be any greater or lesser than the storms that preceded other issues to me) there isn't necessarily a causal relationship here.
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Leveling the field is a much more rational (and in the long term good for the game) approach than a change like the BossBuff that really benefited a few specific powersets and hurt everyone else.
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That is just silly, why not just have 2 or 3 archetypes?
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Powersets are not the same thing as Archetypes. If you have one powerset in an AT that's outperforming the others (say, for example, the old Regen when compared to other scrapper secondaries), it's much easier to bring a single power back down to earth (nerf Regen!) than raise all the other powersets to godhood. Not only is it more work to buff all the other powersets, but if these powersets are already performing admirably, you'll have to rebalance the entire rest of the game to keep things challenging for these gods among heroes.
From a player's perspective, buffs are always better than nerfs. But from a developer's perspective it's just not practical to rebalance the entire rest of the game in order to avoid nerfing a single powerset.
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Leveling the field is a much more rational (and in the long term good for the game) approach than a change like the BossBuff that really benefited a few specific powersets and hurt everyone else.
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That is just silly, why not just have 2 or 3 archetypes?
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Powersets are not the same thing as Archetypes. If you have one powerset in an AT that's outperforming the others (say, for example, the old Regen when compared to other scrapper secondaries), it's much easier to bring a single power back down to earth (nerf Regen!) than raise all the other powersets to godhood. Not only is it more work to buff all the other powersets, but if these powersets are already performing admirably, you'll have to rebalance the entire rest of the game to keep things challenging for these gods among heroes.
From a player's perspective, buffs are always better than nerfs. But from a developer's perspective it's just not practical to rebalance the entire rest of the game in order to avoid nerfing a single powerset.
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I maybe dippy, but I don't understand why having one power set that is better then the others?
One example for me is Kinetics... Love Speedboost, but dont really care for the rest. But I do a toon with it as a secondary.
In the early days, some players complained that fire / fire tankers were too powerful. What I didn't understand was if they wanted one they could build one. There was not a limited number of Fire Tankers in the game. Well as I remember there were many Fire Tankers around and they got Nerfed.
I may be a a simpleton, but there were many games that offered a cheat code like Quake the would put you in Godmode. I would do that from time to time... it was dopy fun.
Once again, I fall back on the idea that the game is to be fun for the customer (us). As long as I don't interfere with other players enjoyment, I should be able to play the way I want.
Word to the Devs:
A glue manufacturer once made a product that "did not work like it was intended". Well if they scrapped the formula, we would not have Post-a-notes today. Sometimes the unintended is good! 
[color=yellow]Great Mephesto - 50 - Ill/Emp Controller - Liberty Badges 342
Cremospecter - 50 - Fire/Fire Tanker - Liberty Badges 158
[color=orange]All Hollows Eve -50 Dark Mastermind - Freedom Badges 352
[color=orange]Mad Houdini - 39 - Eng/Regen Stalker - Liberty Badges 156
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I maybe dippy, but I don't understand why having one power set that is better then the others?
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You're not dippy, better is a subjective term.
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Chat spam limiter: You are now allowed one message per second, You are allowed to break the rule 5 times. Every second you don't chat one rule break is forgotten. If you break the rule more than 5 times you will be banned from chat for 2 minutes. If you continue to try to spam while chat banned, you will continually reset your 2 minute timer.
[/ QUOTE ]
YAY!
[/ QUOTE ]
Well shoot. This isn't going to work well for my friend who needs to be spamed to actually load zones.
>_>
What!? It's the truth!
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It's true, I am the unfortunate person who, if I lag slightly when I try to load zones, I get dced, getting spammed with PMs is the only way to keep my connection alive. 
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You know...I am not sure I like this patch. I am not really feeling the DOOM here.
[/ QUOTE ]
True. I'm feeling the AW SHUCKS!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Back in the day people went all out with the Doom. Today's Doom posts don't seem to really have much oomph.
[/ QUOTE ]
</sarcasm at the end of the OP>
=/
[/ QUOTE ]
No, I got the sarcasm in the OP...I don't think most of the subsequent posters did.
Apparently I should have added some
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Once again, I fall back on the idea that the game is to be fun for the customer (us). As long as I don't interfere with other players enjoyment, I should be able to play the way I want.
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And if this was a standalone first person shooter game, you could. In a MMOG, you do not play in a vacuum, even if you never team. Anything you can do, a teammate can do and will do, and will therefore impact general gameplay.
The devs have a general idea of the range of levelling speed they want players to have. The devs have striven to create a specific range of challenge for any player with any build at Heroic difficulty. When something comes along that throws off the curve demonstrably for either of those concerns, it is tweaked to attempt to put it back within the range they intend. You may not like it, but, really, it's very similar to what a GM would do if you were playing a pen-and-paper rpg with other people except there's the added factor that a GM wouldn't have a business plan.
Ultimately, a GM would tweak the table rules or up the difficulty of the challenges if a party was burning through campaigns in record time every time. The devs attempted to raise the difficulty of mobs across the board back around I2 and it disproportionately punished concept builds and builds on the lower end of the power scale. So, they have been tweaking the top end of the player optimization AND fixing/buffing the bottom end. They can only generate more content at a certain pace and having a sizable chunk of the playerbase burn through it too quickly doesn't provide sustainable entertainment value for the those players nor a reliable subscription revenue stream for the company who ain't doing this purely out of love.
Quibble with that if you will. That's a rough rationale for design tweaks you seem to be bewildered by.
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Sometimes the unintended is good!
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Yes, it is. The devs have not tweaked everything that has been 'unintended'. Occasionally the devs have brainfarts, but they are not dimwits.
That I2 boss change was so painful, I still feel it when I think back on it.
And seconding that the devs are not dimwits. They made my most favorite computer game to date.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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I may be a a simpleton, but there were many games that offered a cheat code like Quake the would put you in Godmode. I would do that from time to time... it was dopy fun.
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But game theory (and indeed game marketing) indicates that games that are too easy do not maintain long term player bases. How interesting is tic tac toe to you? Kind of boring to play a game with the same outcome every time it's played, isn't it?
Type "games are supposed to be fun" (include the quotes) in your google search, and read some of the resultant whines.
Then pick up a copy of Koster's "Theory of Fun for Game Design." It takes a much deeper look at what 'Fun' really is, as far as games are concerned.
"Games primarily feature a core pattern(s) and mechanic(s) which players learn via playing the game. This is fun for the mind.
If the pattern is too hard to discern, or the mechanic of learning the pattern too difficult, players get frustrated and stop playing. On the other hand, if players understand the pattern and master the mechanic too easily, they'll quickly become bored and stop playing. There are other issues as well (relevancy, matching expectations, presentation, etc.) that come into play."
Part of the developer tightrope is walking that line between too easy and too hard.
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Can someone rationalize the 'chat spam ban' stuff for me? I mean I'm just not getting the reason for wasting resources and programming time on something /ignore can fix instantaneously.
Or, are they suggesting that the problem is so prevalent that ignore lists cannot handle it?
Because I rarely see any kind of spamming on Virtue other than combat spam. Sure, now and then some idiot will try to take over broadcast or local in AP or some such, but I find the solution is just to /ignore and continue on my way.
Later, I clear the list if I need to.
So, why all the drama on chatspam all of a sudden?
Cal2
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This was my reaction. What a waste of time. What really sucks is that I team with my SG and we speak through Teamspeak. Any team chat is for kidding around. Many of us use /binds that we use in rapid order. This includes emotes. We also use many combat /binds