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When we look at Statesman and Lord Recluse, one thing we have to remember is that story-wise they are Incarnates. The reason "ingame" that they are labeled as Tanks or Masterminds is because the game does not yet support the Incarnate AT, so when making a hero for Statesman (example) to use ingame, he has to create it off an already developed AT. From there (being devs) they are able to play with the powers and numbers, but again, they have to start with an already developed template.
That is all.
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I suspect that when we finally get to see Lord Recluse, in RV, we'll get to see that his powersets are remarkably similar to Statesmans, except with some variety of the current MM power sets instead of tanker power sets as their obvious primary and secondary pools.
The big question is on what kind of MM is Lord Recluse, exactly?
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When we look at Statesman and Lord Recluse, one thing we have to remember is that story-wise they are Incarnates. The reason "ingame" that they are labeled as Tanks or Masterminds is because the game does not yet support the Incarnate AT, so when making a hero for Statesman (example) to use ingame, he has to create it off an already developed AT. From there (being devs) they are able to play with the powers and numbers, but again, they have to start with an already developed template.
That is all.
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I suspect that when we finally get to see Lord Recluse, in RV, we'll get to see that his powersets are remarkably similar to Statesmans, except with some variety of the current MM power sets instead of tanker power sets as their obvious primary and secondary pools.
The big question is on what kind of MM is Lord Recluse, exactly?
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Arachnos MM I'm assuming.
But I doubt he's gonna be MM-ing it in RV.
I really doubt it.
Anyway, Statesman does have Incarnate powers. It's nothing too special, but Statesman does have lightning powers.
Thinking on my previous posting a bit more, however, lets think about what we've seen of Lord Recluse so far...
Not counting his lackies, Black Scorpion, Capt. Mako, et al, he seems to be sorely LACKING in MM style powers. Where are his 'pets'? I'm almost thinking he's got some sort of will-bending mind control powers (unlike the current Mind Control set) that allows him to turn anyone (besides PCs) into his pets? Something like that? To explain his use of distinct characters almost as if pets? I dunno, seems kinda out there, and iffy to me, but on the otherhand, once again: if he's a MM, where are his 'henchmen'?
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Thinking on my previous posting a bit more, however, lets think about what we've seen of Lord Recluse so far...
Not counting his lackies, Black Scorpion, Capt. Mako, et al, he seems to be sorely LACKING in MM style powers. Where are his 'pets'? I'm almost thinking he's got some sort of will-bending mind control powers (unlike the current Mind Control set) that allows him to turn anyone (besides PCs) into his pets? Something like that? To explain his use of distinct characters almost as if pets? I dunno, seems kinda out there, and iffy to me, but on the otherhand, once again: if he's a MM, where are his 'henchmen'?
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Well, think of it this way.. what villain group does Lord Recluse run and/or control?
Well, that would be Arachnos. All of it.
If he's still a Mastermind, I highly doubt he would limit himself to 8 henchmen.
But it has been hinted that he is no longer a Mastermind, like in his bio:
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Leader of all the Rogue Isles, Lord Recluse was once the ultimate Mastermind, able to easily bend others to his will. Driven by ideological zealotry, Recluse seeks total world domination. Believing that he is entitled to this position because of superior intelligence and mastery of advanced technologies, Recluse controls Arachnos with an iron fist. Though now an Incarnate, his ability to control those around him has not diminished. With the help of his seers, he manipulates events to his advantage. In this way, Lord Recluse acts as an unseen puppet master, his machinations extending their tendrils into even the darkest corners of the Rogue Isles and beyond.
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Arachnos MM I'm assuming.
But I doubt he's gonna be MM-ing it in RV.
I really doubt it.
Anyway, Statesman does have Incarnate powers. It's nothing too special, but Statesman does have lightning powers.
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That's exactly what I was thinking. I'm almost picturing it being somewhat modeled after the new Thugs pool, but with Arachnos minions instead of thugs. Perhaps something like a Wolfspider Huntsman, Blood Widow, and Crab Spider Slicer as his first tier, two Mu Guardians as his second tier, and a Fortunata Mistress as his third? And maybe in place of Gang War, he can summon 10ish random minions? Wolf Spiders, Spiderbots, etc?
I dunno, it's kind of difficult to pick among the current Arachnos baddies to be the pets in a MM set. Maybe a Toxic Tarantula, or a Tarantula Mistress in place of the third tier...I dunno
You missed a post:
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But it has been hinted that he is no longer a Mastermind, like in his bio:
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Leader of all the Rogue Isles, Lord Recluse was once the ultimate Mastermind, able to easily bend others to his will. Driven by ideological zealotry, Recluse seeks total world domination. Believing that he is entitled to this position because of superior intelligence and mastery of advanced technologies, Recluse controls Arachnos with an iron fist. Though now an Incarnate, his ability to control those around him has not diminished. With the help of his seers, he manipulates events to his advantage. In this way, Lord Recluse acts as an unseen puppet master, his machinations extending their tendrils into even the darkest corners of the Rogue Isles and beyond.
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But if he were gonna be a MM still, then I would think he would have more than the usual 8 as perma-pets. Afterall, tons of heroes are gonna go after him in RV. 8 pets is just not gonna cut it.
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But if he were gonna be a MM still, then I would think he would have more than the usual 8 as perma-pets. Afterall, tons of heroes are gonna go after him in RV. 8 pets is just not gonna cut it.
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Very very true. But how many perma-pets would they give him, before starting to worry about slowing down less top-end machines? I suspect, if he's MM at all, he'll likely still only have max 10-15 perma-pets
Also, don't forget, it says his ability as a MM hasn't diminished, but it doesn't say it's INCREASED, either. With his obvious SS/Inv powers added in - even though I doubt he'll have the array of SS/Inv powers an actual SS/Inv tank/brute would have, it will still make him significantly more powerful then your AVERAGE MM sans-pets.
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...the usual 8 as perma-pets...8 pets is just not gonna cut it.
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Also, except in cases such as Necro/DM, or, to a certain degree, Traps, if you want to count THOSE
(Necro's get the Ghost, also. DM and Traps get uncontrollable, 'Controller' style pets also, but they're nothing compared to the henchmen proper.), MM get a max of 6 perma-pets, not 8.
3 first tier
2 second tier
1 third tier
Yeah, that's true.
I would think that he still would be an MM, but at the same time, be able to stand on his own without his henchmen. Afterall, even before he was a Mastermind he was somewhat of a brute (in general, not the AT.) So, I would think he'll have henchmen + his Incarnate powers OR some sort of weird power combination. Who knows.
We'll just have to wait and see I guess.
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Also, except in cases such as Necro/DM, or, to a certain degree, Traps, if you want to count THOSE
(Necro's get the Ghost, also. DM and Traps get uncontrollable, 'Controller' style pets also, but they're nothing compared to the henchmen proper.), MM get a max of 6 perma-pets, not 8.
3 first tier
2 second tier
1 third tier
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The Soul Extraction from the Necro set, and such powers like that, including Gang War in the thug set, aren't perma-pets since they're like Controller pets: they have a time limit.
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The Soul Extraction from the Necro set, and such powers like that, including Gang War in the thug set, aren't perma-pets since they're like Controller pets: they have a time limit.
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That was half my point right there - though I must point out about Soul Extraction - it's sort of a hybrid between a MM pet, and a Controller pet. While it as a time limit, it IS controllable. Also, the time limit is kind of a joke. Put a couple recharge redux in there, and it's back almost before it drops.
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The Soul Extraction from the Necro set, and such powers like that, including Gang War in the thug set, aren't perma-pets since they're like Controller pets: they have a time limit.
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That was half my point right there - though I must point out about Soul Extraction - it's sort of a hybrid between a MM pet, and a Controller pet. While it as a time limit, it IS controllable. Also, the time limit is kind of a joke. Put a couple recharge redux in there, and it's back almost before it drops.
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Haha, yeah, but as for LR, we just might see some new Arachnos, like the red and purple ones maybe? Meh, who knows. I can't wait though.
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Haha, yeah, but as for LR, we just might see some new Arachnos, like the red and purple ones maybe? Meh, who knows. I can't wait though.
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Red and purple ones? You mean the Fortunatas who set your mish difficulty, and such? That would be pretty cool. Know another way they could maintain the 'standard' 6-7 perma-pets, keep with the Arachnos theme, and still make him uber?
Give him Arbiters as pets. 
Edit for "Arbiters" not being possessive
Recluse will have SOME melee capabilities... EMish i'd guess. He's always beating around States with those glowie red hands of his.
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Haha, yeah, but as for LR, we just might see some new Arachnos, like the red and purple ones maybe? Meh, who knows. I can't wait though.
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Red and purple ones? You mean the Fortunatas who set your mish difficulty, and such? That would be pretty cool. Know another way they could maintain the 'standard' 6-7 perma-pets, keep with the Arachnos theme, and still make him uber?
Give him Arbiters as pets.
Edit for "Arbiters" not being possessive
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No no, not the Fortunatas.
I was talking about these red and purple guys.
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Recluse will have SOME melee capabilities... EMish i'd guess. He's always beating around States with those glowie red hands of his.
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Whatever that thing is must be pretty special.
recluse is a mastermind but you'll never see him summon pets because he doesn't need to, he is arachnos. his incarnate powers, which likewise make states immortal and impervious, made him immortal and beefed up his minion capability. effectively any member of arachnos is his henchmen.
the devs said that they wanted to instill other ways of earning EATs such as task forces or strike forces, depending on your heroic or villainous inclination, and this can be taken as far as time spent on a character or badges earned. i'm personally hoping for an avian taskforce and the incarnates being unlocked by time spent.
the avians have begun animation, presumibly for I8. in addition there will be two varieities, one for heroes with feathered wings, and one for villains with bat-style wings.
i perceive the incarnates as an aquired template, you run a taskforce at level 20 or so, and from then on you unlock an additional 'incarnate power pool' where you choose a patron god and gain their powers, maybe the powers unlock at a different rate than the standard powers and can be gained on levels where one would gain enhancement slots, and inadition to those slots. think about it, the two incarnates we know of, baring the snake god stheno, were both standard archetypes. they were also good friends and drank from the fountain of youth together i beleive. states 'caught' zeus and rec caught perhaps hades or aries. the hades to make him evil, the aires to explain why he goes into melee so often. states can call lightning bolts because he became zeus afterall.
I could see Recluse summoning Arachnos soldiers out of nowhere. that would be pretty cool. I think those two red and purple guys would be his second-tier pet. First tier would be Arbiters, and third tier would be too scary to mention, but maybe something like 'Perfect Arachnoid'.
And even so, I have figured out throught he limited proof I have been given what Incranate Recluse is. First, let's look at the facts I have.
History of the Gods: Now, in greek mythology, there were only really two people worthy of being called 'villains'. Kronos the Titan and Hades. Hades only so because he's the lord of the underworld, but still.
The Lord Recluse wallpaper: Look, if you will, at the City of Villains wallpaper page. THe sixth one, the one just after the first image of Recluse battling Statesman and winning. It seems the only image we can really find of Lord Recluse's glowing red hands. Wait, that's not glow... He's set his hand on fire!
yes, that's it. But it narrows Recluse down to this: Lord Recluse is the reincarnation of Hades, God of the Underworld. That still doesn't stop him from being the world's best Crab Spider though.
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the devs said that they wanted to instill other ways of earning EATs such as task forces or strike forces, depending on your heroic or villainous inclination, and this can be taken as far as time spent on a character or badges earned.
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Yep, just as was written on the guide.
But then again, nothing has been confirmed as to what the alternate requirement will be.
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the avians have begun animation, presumibly for I8. in addition there will be two varieities, one for heroes with feathered wings, and one for villains with bat-style wings.
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There has never been an official word on which side gets which, or what will go where. I think it's safe to assume that the Avilans would go to both sides since EVERYONE wants wings, but so far, nothing has been officially announced.
But yes, Statesman did say that they are already desgined on paper.
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i perceive the incarnates as an aquired template, you run a taskforce at level 20 or so, and from then on you unlock an additional 'incarnate power pool' where you choose a patron god and gain their powers, maybe the powers unlock at a different rate than the standard powers and can be gained on levels where one would gain enhancement slots, and inadition to those slots. think about it, the two incarnates we know of, baring the snake god stheno, were both standard archetypes. they were also good friends and drank from the fountain of youth together i beleive. states 'caught' zeus and rec caught perhaps hades or aries. the hades to make him evil, the aires to explain why he goes into melee so often. states can call lightning bolts because he became zeus afterall.
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History of the Gods: Now, in greek mythology, there were only really two people worthy of being called 'villains'. Kronos the Titan and Hades. Hades only so because he's the lord of the underworld, but still.
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Fountain of Zues.
And if I know Statesman (Jack Emmert), he wouldn't make Hades the bad guy. He's very into mythology, and eventhough Hades is typecasted as evil, he isn't. He just has dominion over the underworld and the dead, but that's all. The three brothers (Zeus, Poseidon, Hades) split their duties, and Hades just got that part. If anything, the villains are the Titans that fought the Olympians. Though, do note that NOT ALL of the Titans fought. Only most of them.
But as far as the Incarnate requirement, I, too would think a time-spent requirement should be implemented for it. From what we know, it should, but at the same time, we still don't know what the devs are gonna make of it yet. If anything, IMO, it would be something like choosing a Patron. Choose a god/goddess/higher being to be reincarnated with or be personfied with, or something like that. But that's just pure speculation.
Oh and btw, I forgot to mention, Stheno, in mythology, is one of the three gorgons. One of the more famous gorgons is Medusa.
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the avians have begun animation, presumibly for I8. in addition there will be two varieities, one for heroes with feathered wings, and one for villains with bat-style wings.
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Interesting. Where did you find this, I'd like to read about it. I would hope they let you decide on your wings regardless of being hero or villain.
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the avians have begun animation, presumibly for I8. in addition there will be two varieities, one for heroes with feathered wings, and one for villains with bat-style wings.
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Interesting. Where did you find this, I'd like to read about it. I would hope they let you decide on your wings regardless of being hero or villain.
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The only thing that has been mentioned about the Avilans recently is that they are designed on paper. It's in the "Ask Statesman - Answers" post in the Dev Digest. But that's all. Nothing anymore specific than that has been revealed about them, and no I'm not leaving out any tidbits, lol. I really mean nothing 
i read about it in a post that was a combination of whining about i7 taking so long and the invention system which *i hope* is slated for i8
would the invention system have anything to do with all those constructions sites in CoH, where the devs mentioned "colleges" or maybe "schools" or "acadamies" (some type of place of learning) that will have something to do with secondary skills (such as cooking or blacksmithing in a fantasy MMO)
/edit\
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Beyond that, we are looking to release another Issue building up the story towards our next retail box, due in 2007. This will include going back and revamping some of the zones from City of Heroes, using everything we've learned from making City of Villains and Issue 7, plus a bunch of other cool stuff including new powersets and an epic archetype. Of course for the retail box we will be creating all-new zones and content based on the results of the forum poll we posted last month. The retail box will be an expansion to both City of Heroes and City of Villains.
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plus a bunch of other cool stuff including new powersets and an epic archetype
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found this quote in Positrons and Statesman's 2nd ann. adress:
http://www.cityofheroes.com/news/arc...ating_cit.html
So... who wants to bet that's Incarnates?
I highly doubt it's the Incarnates.
The Avilans and the Coralax are basically already designed, and the BotBS and the Incarnates are something we haven't heard any news of yet. So as far as who's more likely to be released, it's the Coralax - not that I want them to, but their story and Strike Force is already in the game, so they're basically there 30%
The Avilans and BotBS are somewhat tied since they're both mentioned in the game(s), but the Avilans have a +1 since Statesman said they're already designed.
The Incarnates, however, has only been a "god-mode" archetype so far. So I don't think it will be given anytime soon. Also, it's being released with an expansion, not an Issue, which most likely means it's a QoL, and the Incarnate concept doesn't seem like a QoL* aka normal Epic AT.
*QoL = stuff we don't necessarily need to have in the game but would be awesome to have it (eg. Croatoa, new costume items, etc.)
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Beyond that, we are looking to release another Issue building up the story towards our next retail box
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wouldnt that qualify as an expansion? Issues don't come in boxes ;-). And June 2007 is fairly far off for content...
oh you thought i meant that i was talking about the issue preceding the expansion? no i was saying maybe Incarnates in that mystery "retail box".... i *thought* they were saying that the box expansion would have the new AT and all
Well.. I was just saying that the Incarnate doesn't seem like your average EAT, so if the expansion is more of a QoL expansion, I don't think they'd put it in there, and as far as 2007 being too far off, well, it's been about 2 years since the release of the Kheldians with no sign of when the other ones are coming, so let's just hope the gaps between the upcoming ones aren't so far off.
When we look at Statesman and Lord Recluse, one thing we have to remember is that story-wise they are Incarnates. The reason "ingame" that they are labeled as Tanks or Masterminds is because the game does not yet support the Incarnate AT, so when making a hero for Statesman (example) to use ingame, he has to create it off an already developed AT. From there (being devs) they are able to play with the powers and numbers, but again, they have to start with an already developed template.
That is all.