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It is only a matter of opinion (yours) that these are "unsatisfactory justifications."
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Yup. NOW you get it! 
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So it is fine for you to think that his opinions are unsatisfactory, but it is wrong for him to think that yours are. 
While that may not be what you think, that is the impression that I got from your posts.
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Sigh.
No, you don't get it after all. 
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Then please be so kind as to explain it then.
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Well, fair enough, I guess. I dont see why that should matter so much to you, but in all fairness some people dont see why not having Isolator on Zube should bother me. To each his own.
But this is really a minor issue placed next to the main point. Many (most?) of us who have pre-I2 characters feel it is unfair to prevent us from getting this badge. NO OTHER badge is like Isolator, because every other badge could be obtained by any character in existence at the time the badge was created.
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But that doesen't mean more badges in the future won't be like Isolator... Meaning, if you miss it, you miss it. And changing Isolator *now* would compromise future additions. Because at that point, Cryptic would have set up a precedent... And the more its done, the harder it becomes to justify saying "No", simply on the basis that they would have already done it in the past.
And what happens if they add new content to Outbreak in the future, that's soley dependant on fullfilling certain tasks in Outbreak? Such as adding a souvenier for completing the missions? What then? Should they not add it because they would risk offending us "Loyal Customers" if for some technical reason they couldn't simply grant it to us? Should they just grant it to anyone regardless of what the existing players have done? Where does it end? It is better the line be drawn now.
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The flashback system would have easily taken care of your text objection, also. The flashback is such a staple in the comic book medium that I hardly need to give examples. A writer wants to tell a story about something the Hero did back in the day, so he just does it. This story was not part of the characters history before, but now it is.
FADE UP:
Captain OMalley is retiring from the PCPD after 30 long and event-filled years on the force. At his retirement dinner, someone asks him, Hey Brian, what one thing do you remember most about your first year on the force?
Well, son, I will never forget the time that Zubenelgenubi almost single-handedly stopped an outbreak of contaminated thugs from overrunning the streets of the 9th District. I was just a beat cop then, two weeks out of the Academy. Id been assigned to guard the perimeter, little more than a human police drone. Things were looking pretty dicey, when all of a sudden here comes Zube. He was as green as a pine tree in April, but you should have seen the way he hopped that fence and tore into those thugs. Why, it seems like only yesterday
CUE MUSIC AND THE WIGGLY LINES
See what I mean? Its pretty easy to imagine (excuse me, I mean role play) the situation in such a way as to remove your objection. As a matter of fact, Zube DID arrest over 100 contaminated thugs! Its just that the writer of my first issue glossed over that part in order to move the narrative along!
And now I want my badge! I want it! I want it! Its unfair that the devs wont give it to me! 
[/ QUOTE ]
On the other hand, careless overuse of flashbacks and retconning is often considered the trademark of a bad writer. *Cough* Hawkman! *Cough*
I tried that it didnt work, you need to be in the same zone.
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Serious. Liquid if it truely was that unimportant then why cant we go back and get it? Why the TOO BAD talk? Why do you care Soooooooooooooo much that we arent allowed? Funny? I'd just tell a dirty joke. You? Just annoying.
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[ QUOTE ]
Serious. Liquid if it truely was that unimportant then why cant we go back and get it?
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Because it's not important enough?
The irony in the argument that is so often made, is that you're arguing that it's not important, and therefore it doesn't matter if you have it, so because it doesn't matter, and it's not important, they should do it.
If it's worth doing, then it should be important. If it's not important, and it doesn't matter, then why is it worth doing?
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If the badge is that important to you as it appears to be (to some of you), then re-roll and get it and go from the start.
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That's not really much of a option anymore. It was after I2, or when ever badges came out, up to the point of the halloween event. But after that, deleting and/or recreating the character means losing out on a number of badges, that they can't get again.
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There will always be badges that people don't have the opportunity to get.
By asking for this one to be given to you, the result is that the badge is cheapened for all those that did delete/recreate a hero in order to get it.
People can get all the badges that are currently available in-game, they just have to make a choice of where their priorities are.
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These points would all be addressed by my compromise proposal (that I made a few posts ago) of a new badge to act as a 'replacement' for Isolator for Pre-I2 characters.
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If a badge was made in the replacement of Isolator and only heroes who did not have isolator could get this, it would be the same situation but only now it would be reverse, the Heroes with Isolator would say "Why can we not get this badge?" "Why are we excluded because someone did not get it when they first started this game"
To me if a new badge is going to be made it should be made available to everyone!
Look at Risk Taker for the heroes now, I bet this badge was intended to be as it is now, but so many people complained about not being able to get it because they had already out leveled it, they are now allowing high level heroes the chance to get it in Recluse's Victory and other zones.
No badge in this game should be kept from anyone other then the special rare badges such as Celebrant.
The Holiday event badges, will come back, when we do not know, but they will eventually.
So I feel the new Celebrant badge will offer a special gladiator is not fair to many who did not know of this, and I think this too was a poor judgement on the dev team as well.
No badge should be kept from anyone, its part of the content/fun in the game you want to enjoy. And when things like this is kept from people it makes them a little disappointed and not enjoy the game knowing that they will never be able to consider their Hero or Villain complete!
Look at how happy the entire community was and still is knowing that if they miss a badge while leveling up their hero or Villain they can always go back and get it.
With Isolator you can not do it, but yet I seen people say "You had your chance you blew it, so move on"
I feel that is a rude thing to say when I bet you have many times went back and collected badges you had a chance to get but never did, and if not for the exemplar system many people would be missing many of the TF badges.
I just think if you are going to allow every badge in the game to be obtained by any level hero, then I feel isolator should fit that category as well.
What they should had done was made Isolator a badge for completing the actual Tutorial rather then a kill x badge.
Because if I recall right, before badges were even in this game, I remember the Tutorial was a mandatory thing as it is in CoV now, you did not have the option to skip Tutorial, you had to go through it.
This would have been a perfect way to introduce badges to the community as well by awarding this badge to people who completed certain things throughout the game.
That way after they left Outbreak people would know they could earn other badges by doing certain things as well.
Anyway thats my thoughts on it.
[B]Leading Badge Holder in the City of Community[/B]
Owner & Operator of...
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Serious. Liquid if it truely was that unimportant then why cant we go back and get it?
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Because it's not important enough?
The irony in the argument that is so often made, is that you're arguing that it's not important, and therefore it doesn't matter if you have it, so because it doesn't matter, and it's not important, they should do it.
If it's worth doing, then it should be important. If it's not important, and it doesn't matter, then why is it worth doing?
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Well I look at it this way, many people ask for things in this game that really isn't important and they get.
What you ask? Easy Costume parts, to me this means nothing, I could care less about costume parts, yeah to many it makes their hero unique or special, well the same goes for the badges to the many who collect them, its just as important to us as costumes are to others.
Either way you look at it, its content. new items..ect..ect..
Now the question is why? Why are costume parts that are not important to me always brought to the game? because the game doesn't reflect on just me, it reflects on the "MANY" other players who play this game and that is what they want to make the game more enjoyable to them.
Well its the same for badges for us, we want them not because its important to the gaming community, we want them because its content and that is what we enjoy out of the game. badges are just as important to some as costume parts are to "MANY" others.
I've seen more posts about costume parts that people missed and can't get now then I see about Isolator, but not once have I dropped in there to say "ABSOLUTELY NOT!" , "You missed it so move on", why because if that is want the community feels they want, then the choice is up to the dev team whether they want to give it to them, I never said forget about this crap, its not important, I held my tongue and worried about what I enjoyed about the game.
But I guess some people would rather stir up the forums with negativity rather then posting in threads that suit their needs. Or maybe they have no needs and just want to cause mischief to the many others that want to enjoy the game the way they like it.
[B]Leading Badge Holder in the City of Community[/B]
Owner & Operator of...
[URL="http://www.vidiotmaps.com/"]Vidiotmaps.com[/URL] & [URL="http://www.badge-hunter.com/"]Badge-Hunter.com[/URL]
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The Holiday event badges, will come back, when we do not know, but they will eventually.
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Has that ever been said? I'd love to get the halloween badges again, but I've never heard anything offical about those badges being offered again.
The fact that the Cold Warrior badge was offered again, is not proof that other badges like that will be offered again.
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I just think if you are going to allow every badge in the game to be obtained by any level hero, then I feel isolator should fit that category as well.
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There are badges that not everyone can get. The Celbrant badge for example, will not be made avalable to anyone who wasn't there at that time.
The Issolator is somewhat different, only for those characters created prior to badges being put in. Simply because there was no way they could get them.
However I can not agree that all badges should be obtainable by anyone no mater when they started, if that were done, then there's really no point in having special limited time badges at all.
No, no redname has ever made the statement saying they would definitely come back, but the chance is in the open as we have already seen one return, so it is possible we will see others, I do not know for sure.
As far as I know there is no special badge showing the amount of time you have been with this game, I think Celebrant was intended for that, but all that is, is a badge saying thanks to the heroes who were here at this particular time Cryptic chose to celebrate their anniversary. It never meant you were here for a year.
And trust me I'm all for them giving the pre-i2 heroes the chance to get Isolator, I fell in that category when badges were introduced, so I know where you are coming from.
[B]Leading Badge Holder in the City of Community[/B]
Owner & Operator of...
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And trust me I'm all for them giving the pre-i2 heroes the chance to get Isolator.
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IMO that's the only case that an exception should be made. Those characters that were created prior to badges even existing.
There was absolutly no way they could of goten that badge, period. As such I think an exception is warnted.
However, I think that's the only case it should be made for. Anyone who started a character after I2 did have the chance to get it. They may not of known about it when they did the tutoral... But everytime I've done it, there's always been at least one broadcast in the time I was there about it.
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What you ask? Easy Costume parts, to me this means nothing, I could care less about costume parts, yeah to many it makes their hero unique or special, well the same goes for the badges to the many who collect them, its just as important to us as costumes are to others.
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You have one badge you can't get. You're complaining about one minor issue in a large system. Not asking for the system to be expanded (new content), just that it be altered.
A new costume piece is bigger than that. To make as menial a request about costumes as this is about badges, you'd need to be asking to fix a minor clipping issue, such as the pirate hook impaling the hero when in an idle stance. That's asking for one fix to an existing piece of content that already is working as intended.
It's really not important, it really doesn't matter, and it's really not worth the effort. At what point can not worth it become a valid reason for saying no?
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I've seen more posts about costume parts that people missed and can't get now then I see about Isolator, but not once have I dropped in there to say "ABSOLUTELY NOT!" , "You missed it so move on" why because if that is want the community feels they want
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But Liquid, myself, and others have given plenty of reasons beyond "no" and "too bad". Liquid may enjoy voicing his opinion more than others, but that doesn't mean he is being contrary just to be contrary, and it doesn't make him not part of the same community.
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then the choice is up to the dev team whether they want to give it to them, I never said forget about this crap, its not important, I held my tongue and worried about what I enjoyed about the game.
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The choice is always up to the dev team. I don't think anyone questions that. However, if someone makes a suggestion, and when the dev reads the post, there's already been a complete (or near complete) disscussion about the pros and cons of the idea, then they don't have to spend as much time looking for the problems/benefits of a suggestion themselves. Additionally, having more people than just themselves to flesh out an idea probably allows them to consider things they may have inadvertanly missed otherwise.
But in the end it is up to the devs what they spend their time on. They know that, and someone expressing a negative opinion doesn't bar them from being able to make their choice. Voicing an opinion (be it positive or negative) can only at worst make them waste the 30 seconds they spent reading it, while at best, help them do their jobs.
exactly what Beefcake said. I've seen people cry about less and get it, I've seen them cry about more and get it. I as well have never popped in and said "NO NO NO NO!!!!" If thats what you want and it doesnt screw with the game dynamics, then why not? Us badge collectors just want it for our own collections. To us its worth a piece of something special, but in the Grand scheme of things it does nothing to alter or Toon (cept maybe an undername). Everyone I see has the badge and if they dont, they dont care because they dont collect badges.
Well your a badge collector and you dont have it people ask why?
"Why don't you have Isolator?"
"Because we weren't allowed to get that badge. "
"You weren't allowed?"
"Nope."
Why are we even arguing over this? If we get this badge are you going to be soooo furious that you smash your PC or that you'd even quit playing? Does it change anything in your little world? Yeah, I thought not.
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Why are we even arguing over this? If we get this badge are you going to be soooo furious that you smash your PC or that you'd even quit playing? Does it change anything in your little world? Yeah, I thought not.
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If you don't get this badge, are you going to be soooo furious that you would smash your PC or that you would quit playing? Does it change anything in your little world? Yeah, I thought not.
No, have any of you tards read the entire post? I'm the one who started this thread. I have been asking the Dev's on this. I will keep playing. I did NOT ask your opinion. I just feel that this is something I feel strongly about, and others agree. I dont see what the big deal is here. I dont understand why you guys run up here screaming NO! I will never have as many badges as Beef will, I do not have celebrant. I was not here. I do not have the halloween badges. I was not here. I dont have winter lord either. I will never ask for them either. This entire time I have never wanted to be given the badge. I just want to earn it.
Also all that techno blah blah you guys keep shoveling at us, really they cant do it? They cant make such a drastic game change? Fine. Take my toon and change her back to lvl 1, put her back in outbreak, take everything off of her excapt my badges. Can they do that? They sure could. If they cant do that, they need to go back to programming school. If I want to send my toon back to lvl 1 why do you even have an opinion about it? Did you pay my monthly fee? Did you put money into my computer so the game would run? Last time I checked no you didn't. I know many people that would happily do this, this would give them much pleasure and loads of fun playing there toons all over again and NC Soft would get more money off of us. Whats so wrong with that request? I feel that your input on the matter isnt relevant. If you dont want to do then so be it. But we do. People make requests all the time, this one is no different. In no way, shape or form are we asking to be given anything. We would like the chance to do it all over again. 
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No, have any of you tards read the entire post?
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Nice. Wonder if I am the first to report your post??
edit - yup I am!!!
IBTD
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I'm the one who started this thread. I have been asking the Dev's on this. I will keep playing. I did NOT ask your opinion.
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So what. This is a discussion board. I can post whatever I want as long as it doesn't break the EULA. And last I checked, disagreeing with you isn't aginst it...
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I just feel that this is something I feel strongly about, and others agree.
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And others disagree.
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I dont see what the big deal is here. I dont understand why you guys run up here screaming NO!
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Don't feel bad. We will never understand why you want it so bad. Nice how that works out.
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Also all that techno blah blah you guys keep shoveling at us, really they cant do it?
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They said they couldn't. Well, technically, they said they could, but it would take about 2 years to datamine the info...
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<snip lots of whining>
I feel that your input on the matter isnt relevant.
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Don't worry about it. We (or at least I) think yours isn't either.
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If you dont want to do then so be it. But we do. People make requests all the time, this one is no different. In no way, shape or form are we asking to be given anything. We would like the chance to do it all over again.
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You can do it all over again. Roll up a new character!!
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No, have any of you tards read the entire post? I'm the one who started this thread. I have been asking the Dev's on this. I will keep playing. I did NOT ask your opinion. I just feel that this is something I feel strongly about, and others agree.
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And we feel just as strongly as you do, and have every right to voice our opinions on the matter. But apparently, you seem to think its only okay for a person to voice their opinion if its the same as yours.
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I dont see what the big deal is here. I dont understand why you guys run up here screaming NO! I will never have as many badges as Beef will, I do not have celebrant. I was not here. I do not have the halloween badges. I was not here. I dont have winter lord either. I will never ask for them either. This entire time I have never wanted to be given the badge. I just want to earn it.
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And I don't understand why you have so much trouble understanding OUR position on the matter.
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Also all that techno blah blah you guys keep shoveling at us, really they cant do it? They cant make such a drastic game change? Fine. Take my toon and change her back to lvl 1, put her back in outbreak, take everything off of her excapt my badges. Can they do that? They sure could. If they cant do that, they need to go back to programming school.
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They COULD do it, but there are much better uses for the time and resources. (Trenchcoats. Wings. New Powersets. Revamping the existing Zones. New Costume parts)
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If I want to send my toon back to lvl 1 why do you even have an opinion about it? Did you pay my monthly fee? Did you put money into my computer so the game would run? Last time I checked no you didn't. I know many people that would happily do this, this would give them much pleasure and loads of fun playing there toons all over again and NC Soft would get more money off of us. Whats so wrong with that request? I feel that your input on the matter isnt relevant. If you dont want to do then so be it. But we do. People make requests all the time, this one is no different. In no way, shape or form are we asking to be given anything. We would like the chance to do it all over again.
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And our request is that the Dev's DON'T do this. Our opinions are just as valid as yours. And, considering we pay the same monthly fee and you sure as hell didn't build MY computer or pay MY monthly fee, we are just as justified in making ourselves heard, too.
Nevermind. Forget I ever brought it up. Next time I have an idea I'll just write it down and burn it. I'll just let you guys decide what is best for me. Thanx.
"I'll report you!"
"I'll tell my mom!"
Grow up.
This has gone from, "Hey I was wondering?" to a nightmare.
"Too Bad!" "I'll report you!"
I just wanted to see if the Devs would say about this, and last time I checked its the one of my few options.
Well congratz! Liquid X, Mna_grok, and others. I just realised you run the game! Is there anything we lowly servants can do for you?
I tire of this. Laterz
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Well congratz! Liquid X, Mna_grok, and others. I just realised you run the game! Is there anything we lowly servants can do for you?
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Actually, yes. I demand...
A WILD CHERRY PEPSI!
...And some pie. Mmmm... Pie...
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I just wanted to see if the Devs would say about this, and last time I checked its the one of my few options.
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Can I put this into perspective for you?
You make a request.
People respond to said request.
A dev comes and gives a response.
People ask why anyone would have a problem with this.
Others give answers.
You choose to get angry with them because they expressed their opinion when it was asked for.
Then you continue in an argument which you pretty much started, by responding angrily about someone elses opinion (remember how much fun you had sharing yours??).
Then when those people defend themselves by throwing your offensive arguments back at you, you start hyperbolizing peoples opinions into player dictated development schedules.
So your thread got a dev response (which is pretty rare), and then your thread started a fairly reasonable discussion, and somehow you have the nerve to try and pretend you have been wronged?
At a minimum, you're doing just as bad as Liquid, although I can't honestly say I think he's done anything that offensive.
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Look at Risk Taker for the heroes now, I bet this badge was intended to be as it is now, but so many people complained about not being able to get it because they had already out leveled it, they are now allowing high level heroes the chance to get it in Recluse's Victory and other zones.
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From comments made by red names and just from looking at the way PvP zones are set up, it's pretty obvious that it was always intended that L40+ heroes would be able to get that badge in Recluse's Victory once it was added to the game.
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Look at how happy the entire community was and still is knowing that if they miss a badge while leveling up their hero or Villain they can always go back and get it.
With Isolator you can not do it, but yet I seen people say "You had your chance you blew it, so move on"
I feel that is a rude thing to say when I bet you have many times went back and collected badges you had a chance to get but never did, and if not for the exemplar system many people would be missing many of the TF badges.
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I can't speak for anyone else, but I got all of the mission-related badges from my own missions at the proper level for them. The only badges I would not have been able to get without the exemplar system in place are the ones for the Striga, Croatoa, and first 2 Shadow Shard TFs.
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I can't speak for anyone else, but I got all of the mission-related badges from my own missions at the proper level for them. The only badges I would not have been able to get without the exemplar system in place are the ones for the Striga, Croatoa, and first 2 Shadow Shard TFs.
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See even you of all people the person that hates me most, agrees with me, So you see allowing people to go back and get badges they missed is a good thing.
You did and so do "MANY MANY " others. So to allow 1 more badge to be able to go back and get it will not ruin the game.
If not for being able to go back and get badges you missed, you would be even more upset when a new badge is implemented in the game that is to be obtained in a lower level TF.
As it stands now, if a new TF was to be introduced in the game everyone could go get it regardless of level why because you can auto exemp to the TF, but if not for the auto exemp then many would be upset, specially the badge collectors out there that "REROLLED" their hero to get "EVERY" badge in the game. Because now you would see that there is a new badge and you can not get it.
WHY?
Hey, tough you had the chance but you blew it, roll another toon and get it!
See my point here, its rude to exclude long time members of a badge they never had the chance to get on their main badge collecting hero.
Thats the point I'm trying to get across.
[B]Leading Badge Holder in the City of Community[/B]
Owner & Operator of...
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basically you want access to content designed for new characters that wasnt in game when you made your character. this is quite similar to the new lv 1 contact matthew burke for villains. he was added quite a while after cov went live and many people were unable to do his missions without rerolling. do you hear people complaining about that? no. because the devs are going to add new content to the game all the time. some is going to be for low levels. if you miss newly added content because you had already outleveled it, thats why we have more than one character slot.
I want a chance to earn the isolater badge on redorthy I truly do! I would love to see the flashback content added! There are many things that I would love like suveniors (sp) placed back in to the shadow shard tf's and the other task forces as well. Could the dev's work on this? possible. Will they? They have promised so much and failed. The unversity's come to mind. I do want the chance to get the isolater badge on redorthy.
ReDorthy of the Elements
Glock: the original point and click interface.
The Flashback System has been canned from what I recall. The Devs have a policy of not really encouraging every character to do EVERYTHING in the game. That's why there are so many different ATs and powersets.
Why all you over-OCD, completest folks get so bent about that one silly badge is beyond me. You'd think it would show your characters vintage by every bage BUT the Isolator. I know if I had every badge but that one, it would feel a bit like a badge of Honor to have had a Hero around that long. I wasn't here before that badge so I don't have the distinction of not having access to it. Let it go.
H_J
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It is only a matter of opinion (yours) that these are "satisfactory justifications." Seriously now, you object to the badge text becoming incorrect??
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Yes. Yes I do. Hell, do you know how much it bugs me that my Hero has Agent Provocateur when the text clearly doesen't fit? The only thing that's kept me from asking a GM to remove it is that there are more important for them to be doing then removing a badge.
I also hate the Gladiator badges on the hero side too, and wish they would either get rid of them, change the descriptions of them, or create new ones.
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Well, fair enough, I guess. I dont see why that should matter so much to you, but in all fairness some people dont see why not having Isolator on Zube should bother me. To each his own.
But this is really a minor issue placed next to the main point. Many (most?) of us who have pre-I2 characters feel it is unfair to prevent us from getting this badge. NO OTHER badge is like Isolator, because every other badge could be obtained by any character in existence at the time the badge was created.
The flashback system would have easily taken care of your text objection, also. The flashback is such a staple in the comic book medium that I hardly need to give examples. A writer wants to tell a story about something the Hero did back in the day, so he just does it. This story was not part of the characters history before, but now it is.
FADE UP:
Captain OMalley is retiring from the PCPD after 30 long and event-filled years on the force. At his retirement dinner, someone asks him, Hey Brian, what one thing do you remember most about your first year on the force?
Well, son, I will never forget the time that Zubenelgenubi almost single-handedly stopped an outbreak of contaminated thugs from overrunning the streets of the 9th District. I was just a beat cop then, two weeks out of the Academy. Id been assigned to guard the perimeter, little more than a human police drone. Things were looking pretty dicey, when all of a sudden here comes Zube. He was as green as a pine tree in April, but you should have seen the way he hopped that fence and tore into those thugs. Why, it seems like only yesterday
CUE MUSIC AND THE WIGGLY LINES
See what I mean? Its pretty easy to imagine (excuse me, I mean role play) the situation in such a way as to remove your objection. As a matter of fact, Zube DID arrest over 100 contaminated thugs! Its just that the writer of my first issue glossed over that part in order to move the narrative along!
And now I want my badge! I want it! I want it! Its unfair that the devs wont give it to me!
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform