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Now I can understand why people would want to get the Isolator badge, but I don't get how people can feel so strongly about pre-I2s NOT getting a chance for the badge. I mean seriously, what's the harm? It doesn't go towards an accolade, so it has no real effect on gameplay. It's just a little, shiney, and ultimately useless badge.
I say find all the pre-I2 characters and give them a city hall mission. No big deal.
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The reasons for some of us Anti-Isolators boil down into this:
1) The badge description states: "You began your career on a high note, by personally ending the riots of contaminated thugs in the Outbreak Zone. ". Allowing it to be gained anywhere else completly destroys the intent of this badge, and would be totally contradictory to what the badge states.
2) It destroys the "special"-ness of the badge. Just like it would destroy the specialness of the Celebrant badge, the holiday badges, or the Prestige Powers if they allowed anyone to get them whenever they wanted. Hell, Zookeeper used to mean something until they lowered the number of Rikti monkeys for it.
3) It's the principle of the matter.
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It's my opinion that getting it should be a non-issue. It shouldn't be a hard badge to get - create it as a Portal Corp mission with a special contact, send people to an instanced version of Outbreak at combat level 1 and let them kill 100 Contaminated. Problem solved.
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Agreed. It's a simple solution that would end the Isolator dilemma once and for all. If that's not challenging enough for Positron, ramp up the count to 333, 500, or even 1,000. Every Pre-Issue 2 hero (even some of you ANTI-ISOLATORS) would be lined up at that contact as soon as it went live. 
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As long as they changed the text of the badge. Otherwise, it still wouldn't fit.
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Nor have you been able to justify why you should be able to earn this badge outside of Isolator, other then "I want it! I want it! It's unfair if its not given to me!".
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Nor have you been able to justify why you want to deny pre-I2 characters this badge, other than I dont want you to have it! I dont want you to have it! Its unfair if the devs give it to you!
Seriously, lose the ad homonims . They only undercut your position, rather than support it.
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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Do you acyually play this game or do you just sit in the forums "Poo Pooing" everyone ideas from your Ivory tower? What upsets you SOooooo Much about our badge hunting and Isolator? It isnt Fair!!!!! You sream out, then try to cover it up with intelectuals. Its just a stupid useless badge that I would like to have in my little badge window, I am not asking for the ones come and gone. Every time you respond it seems that you dont want us to have this badge and now you hold IT aloft like a victory over us. Jeez man lighten up.
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Are you attempting to be serious, or are you attempting to be funny with this? Because I can't tell.
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All I can see is Trollism.
LiquidX, you seem to fail to understand the whole plot of Outbreak, Heroes stop it then villains sneak over and keep it going. Those of us from Issue Zero to Issue 2 were never data mined for this badge although we started our careers from it, hell even the Outbreak contacts were different back then. When I went though it, we had the entire Outbreak Zone clean as a whistle and waiting for spawns because so many heroes were in the zone beating the crap out of them [only time I've seen 6 atlas parks], I'd say we earned it [or in this case another chance at it even if time travel is involved].
ArchRex Dojhrom x ?
* Sidus Loricatus: B-NRG2, S-BS/Reg, T-Fire/Ice, MM-Bots/FF, St-NRG2, Dom-Psi/NRG, Cor-Son/Traps, Cor-Ice/Kin, Ctrl-Fire/Kin, PB-LB/LA
* Arachnos Loricatus: Soldier, Widow
* Praetoria Loricatus: B-DP/Dev, Cor-Elec/Elec
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Nor have you been able to justify why you should be able to earn this badge outside of Isolator, other then "I want it! I want it! It's unfair if its not given to me!".
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Nor have you been able to justify why you want to deny pre-I2 characters this badge, other than I dont want you to have it! I dont want you to have it! Its unfair if the devs give it to you!
Seriously, lose the ad homonims . They only undercut your position, rather than support it.
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Actually, I believe I provided specific and satisfactory justifications in my second post on this page alone.
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[1) The badge description states: "You began your career on a high note, by personally ending the riots of contaminated thugs in the Outbreak Zone. ". Allowing it to be gained anywhere else completly destroys the intent of this badge, and would be totally contradictory to what the badge states.
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And I still think a level 50 Villain who does the "go-good" TF and becomes a level 1 hero would qualify to be awarded the same Isolator badge... it is after all the beginning of his career as a Hero.
And by extension, a level 50 Hero, who does the "go-bad" TF and becomes a level 1 Villain could get Jailbird, do 50 levels as a Villain, do the "go-good" TF, become a level 1 hero again and end up in Outbreak able to earn the exact same Isolator badge.
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LiquidX, you seem to fail to understand the whole plot of Outbreak, Heroes stop it then villains sneak over and keep it going. Those of us from Issue Zero to Issue 2 were never data mined for this badge although we started our careers from it, hell even the Outbreak contacts were different back then. When I went though it, we had the entire Outbreak Zone clean as a whistle and waiting for spawns because so many heroes were in the zone beating the crap out of them [only time I've seen 6 atlas parks], I'd say we earned it [or in this case another chance at it even if time travel is involved].
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I understand just fine, and I disagree with it. I was around long before Coyotee was put into outbreak. Hell, I had also defeated 100 contaminated, and if they HAD Datamined, I would have the badge. But they didn't, and I can understand their reasonings why they didnt.
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Honestly, I really do not see the issue with giving the people pre issue 2 a chance. Especially if they are still in game this long.
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But you had a chance. You could have either made a new character specifically to be your badge character, or you could have rerolled your main, if that's who you wanted to be your badge character. Either way, you had the option, and if you chose not to exercise that option, well, it's too late now.
I mean, that's why I don't want them to make Isolator available after the tutorial, not because I like saying, "Nyah, nyah, I got it and you didn't," (although I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a tiny bit of that in there; I'm only human) but because I had to make a hard decision, and sacrifice a few months' worth of play time, in order to have Isolator on the character I wanted to have all the badges on. And now there's all these people complaining that they didn't have the opportunity to get it...
Badges are, ultimately, even within the framework of the game, only worth what you think they're worth(except for Accolades, because those give you powers). I thought having all the badges on that one specific character was worth deleting and rerolling, so I did it. A lot of other people decided that it wasn't worth that much to them, and now they're asking for the rules to be changed in their favor so that they can be let off the hook for their earlier decision, and that irritates me. And I heard some people saying, "I didn't know it would only be in the tutorial," but Positron said that from the get-go.
Basically, my stance is, you had your chance, you made your choice, now you get to live with it. "I didn't know" isn't a good enough excuse. I didn't know, either. So I found out. People say, "Badges aren't that big a deal, why do you care if we have it?" to which I reply, "If they aren't that important, why do you care if you don't?"
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[1) The badge description states: "You began your career on a high note, by personally ending the riots of contaminated thugs in the Outbreak Zone. ". Allowing it to be gained anywhere else completly destroys the intent of this badge, and would be totally contradictory to what the badge states.
[/ QUOTE ]
And I still think a level 50 Villain who does the "go-good" TF and becomes a level 1 hero would qualify to be awarded the same Isolator badge... it is after all the beginning of his career as a Hero.
And by extension, a level 50 Hero, who does the "go-bad" TF and becomes a level 1 Villain could get Jailbird, do 50 levels as a Villain, do the "go-good" TF, become a level 1 hero again and end up in Outbreak able to earn the exact same Isolator badge.
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Well, assuming that it would actually work like that when they implement heroes turning to villains and villains turning to heroes... I certainly wouldn't be against it.
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Nor have you been able to justify why you should be able to earn this badge outside of Isolator, other then "I want it! I want it! It's unfair if its not given to me!".
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Nor have you been able to justify why you want to deny pre-I2 characters this badge, other than I dont want you to have it! I dont want you to have it! Its unfair if the devs give it to you!
Seriously, lose the ad homonims . They only undercut your position, rather than support it.
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Irony is a person accusing someone of an ad hominem attack using an ad hominem attack to do so.
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Actually, I believe I provided specific and satisfactory justifications in my second post on this page alone.
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It is only a matter of opinion (yours) that these are "satisfactory justifications." Seriously now, you object to the badge text becoming incorrect?? 
And what about your frequent use of ad homonims to "support" your opinion?
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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[1) The badge description states: "You began your career on a high note, by personally ending the riots of contaminated thugs in the Outbreak Zone. ". Allowing it to be gained anywhere else completly destroys the intent of this badge, and would be totally contradictory to what the badge states.
[/ QUOTE ]
And I still think a level 50 Villain who does the "go-good" TF and becomes a level 1 hero would qualify to be awarded the same Isolator badge... it is after all the beginning of his career as a Hero.
And by extension, a level 50 Hero, who does the "go-bad" TF and becomes a level 1 Villain could get Jailbird, do 50 levels as a Villain, do the "go-good" TF, become a level 1 hero again and end up in Outbreak able to earn the exact same Isolator badge.
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Unfortunately, from what I have understood from dev posts, that is not the way that it will work. If you go from villain to hero at L50, you end up as a level 50 hero. You do not start out at level 1 again.
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Maybe you shouldnt be fighting so hard for the Isolator badge perhaps what you should be looking for is a badge that says i have been here longer then badges have been around so stating that you infact are in and among the Elite group of individuals that have been with CoH for such a long time and having this badge could even Equal and or Surpass the having of the Isolator badge because having it in itself says that you did not get the option too achive this badge but yet it replaces this badge(isolator) with an even greater achivement do you know what i mean?
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In past versions of this thread (just how many times has this one risen from the dead?) I have proposed a similar compromise.
It's safe to say whether you think Isolator should be available outside Outbreak or by pre-Issue 2 characters or not, the fact that the Devs chose to make a badge impossible to get by people who were around before they existed was an obviously poor, shortsighted design decision at best. At worst it was a ploy to get some people to 'start over' to earn Isolator, keeping people in the game longer working to get back to where they were before they restarted - a totally underhanded and outright rude maneuver for the Devs to pull.
Ultimately the reasons the Devs did this don't really matter. The reality is they established Isolator as is, period. As much as I'd love to get Isolator on my CoH headstart badge-hunter, I must reluctantly agree and accept that there shouldn't be a change to Isolator to allow it and I won't ask for one. Badge hunting means a lot to me, and for them to maintain any shred of value the requirements and/or methods to earn them should not be tinkered with trivially. Case in point, I'm still actually semi-irked that they lowered the requirements for Zookeeper - the original number needed for it was arguably stupid-too-high, but lowering it cheapened the effort I and others put into it.
As both a compromise for lacking Isolator and a means to make amends for the oversight, I believe the Devs could easily add a new badge to fill the Isolator void for all pre-Issue 2 characters. This 'Alpha Legion' badge (or whatever the Devs would call it) could be done up like the event accolades have been done. The datamining for it would be relatively simple - any character created before the release date of Issue 2 would get it.
With this new badge there would be balance in fairness and overall badge numbers. All pre-Issue 2 characters would be recognized and awarded for their longevity in the game and be given a badge to take the place of another, Isolator, which they can never have by design. All post-Issue 2 characters would then have their opportunity to have Isolator as always with no changes needed to its details at all.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
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Actually, I believe I provided specific and satisfactory justifications in my second post on this page alone.
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It is only a matter of opinion (yours) that these are "satisfactory justifications." Seriously now, you object to the badge text becoming incorrect??
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It is only a matter of opinion (yours) that these are "unsatisfactory justifications."
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If the badge is that important to you as it appears to be (to some of you), then re-roll and get it and go from the start.
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That's not really much of a option anymore. It was after I2, or when ever badges came out, up to the point of the halloween event. But after that, deleting and/or recreating the character means losing out on a number of badges, that they can't get again.
IMO I'd say give the badge to every character created prior to badges being put into the game. Weither they defeated 100 contanimated or not... Just give every character created prior to that date the badge.
Those people are IMO the only ones who have a ligit gripe about not getting the isloator badge, seeing how there was no way they could of gotten it.
After that point however... If you didn't get it, it was due to ingorance on your part, and that's not the fault of the dev's.
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Nor have you been able to justify why you should be able to earn this badge outside of Isolator, other then "I want it! I want it! It's unfair if its not given to me!".
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Nor have you been able to justify why you want to deny pre-I2 characters this badge, other than I dont want you to have it! I dont want you to have it! Its unfair if the devs give it to you!
Seriously, lose the ad homonims . They only undercut your position, rather than support it.
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Irony is a person accusing someone of an ad hominem attack using an ad hominem attack to do so.
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It sure is. And when I see it happen, I like to point it out.
But that has nothing to do with my post, of course, as I was clearly just turning LiquidX's "argument" around in order to point out the weakness of it. But of course, you did see that, didn't you?
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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It is only a matter of opinion (yours) that these are "satisfactory justifications." Seriously now, you object to the badge text becoming incorrect??
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Yes. Yes I do. Hell, do you know how much it bugs me that my Hero has Agent Provocateur when the text clearly doesen't fit? The only thing that's kept me from asking a GM to remove it is that there are more important for them to be doing then removing a badge.
I also hate the Gladiator badges on the hero side too, and wish they would either get rid of them, change the descriptions of them, or create new ones.
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If the badge is that important to you as it appears to be (to some of you), then re-roll and get it and go from the start.
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That's not really much of a option anymore. It was after I2, or when ever badges came out, up to the point of the halloween event. But after that, deleting and/or recreating the character means losing out on a number of badges, that they can't get again.
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There will always be badges that people don't have the opportunity to get.
By asking for this one to be given to you, the result is that the badge is cheapened for all those that did delete/recreate a hero in order to get it.
People can get all the badges that are currently available in-game, they just have to make a choice of where their priorities are.
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[1) The badge description states: "You began your career on a high note, by personally ending the riots of contaminated thugs in the Outbreak Zone. ". Allowing it to be gained anywhere else completly destroys the intent of this badge, and would be totally contradictory to what the badge states.
[/ QUOTE ]
And I still think a level 50 Villain who does the "go-good" TF and becomes a level 1 hero would qualify to be awarded the same Isolator badge... it is after all the beginning of his career as a Hero.
And by extension, a level 50 Hero, who does the "go-bad" TF and becomes a level 1 Villain could get Jailbird, do 50 levels as a Villain, do the "go-good" TF, become a level 1 hero again and end up in Outbreak able to earn the exact same Isolator badge.
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Unfortunately, from what I have understood from dev posts, that is not the way that it will work. If you go from villain to hero at L50, you end up as a level 50 hero. You do not start out at level 1 again.
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A level 50 villain trying to go good would automatically get complete trust and be granted level 50 security clearance? That would not make sense to me... I hope they really aren't thinking that way.
And as if Lord Arachnos would allow a level 50 hero access to everything simply because of one or few acts of villainy... sorry bub, you have to earn your way to the top of my web.
Also doing a 50 to 1 conversion by stripping everything except your badges (although some do get renamed) and souviners would also eliminate the potential economy problems with enhancements and influence transfer, and also make the conversion such that it would not be taken lightly..
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If the badge is that important to you as it appears to be (to some of you), then re-roll and get it and go from the start.
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That's not really much of a option anymore. It was after I2, or when ever badges came out, up to the point of the halloween event. But after that, deleting and/or recreating the character means losing out on a number of badges, that they can't get again.
[/ QUOTE ]
There will always be badges that people don't have the opportunity to get.
By asking for this one to be given to you, the result is that the badge is cheapened for all those that did delete/recreate a hero in order to get it.
People can get all the badges that are currently available in-game, they just have to make a choice of where their priorities are.
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These points would all be addressed by my compromise proposal (that I made a few posts ago) of a new badge to act as a 'replacement' for Isolator for Pre-I2 characters.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
[ QUOTE ]
It is only a matter of opinion (yours) that these are "unsatisfactory justifications."
[/ QUOTE ]
Yup. NOW you get it! 
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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It is only a matter of opinion (yours) that these are "unsatisfactory justifications."
[/ QUOTE ]
Yup. NOW you get it!
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So it is fine for you to think that his opinions are unsatisfactory, but it is wrong for him to think that yours are. 
While that may not be what you think, that is the impression that I got from your posts.
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In past versions of this thread (just how many times has this one risen from the dead?) I have proposed a similar compromise.
[/ QUOTE ]
Enough times that it is no longer a horse. All we have left from this horse being beaten so many times is this.
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As both a compromise for lacking Isolator and a means to make amends for the oversight, I believe the Devs could easily add a new badge to fill the Isolator void for all pre-Issue 2 characters. This 'Alpha Legion' badge (or whatever the Devs would call it) could be done up like the event accolades have been done. The datamining for it would be relatively simple - any character created before the release date of Issue 2 would get it.
With this new badge there would be balance in fairness and overall badge numbers. All pre-Issue 2 characters would be recognized and awarded for their longevity in the game and be given a badge to take the place of another, Isolator, which they can never have by design. All post-Issue 2 characters would then have their opportunity to have Isolator as always with no changes needed to its details at all.
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I could definately get behind this.
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It is only a matter of opinion (yours) that these are "unsatisfactory justifications."
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Yup. NOW you get it!
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So it is fine for you to think that his opinions are unsatisfactory, but it is wrong for him to think that yours are.
While that may not be what you think, that is the impression that I got from your posts.
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Sigh.
No, you don't get it after all. 
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
[ QUOTE ]
Do you acyually play this game or do you just sit in the forums "Poo Pooing" everyone ideas from your Ivory tower? What upsets you SOooooo Much about our badge hunting and Isolator? It isnt Fair!!!!! You sream out, then try to cover it up with intelectuals. Its just a stupid useless badge that I would like to have in my little badge window, I am not asking for the ones come and gone. Every time you respond it seems that you dont want us to have this badge and now you hold IT aloft like a victory over us. Jeez man lighten up.
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you attempting to be serious, or are you attempting to be funny with this? Because I can't tell.