[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget Oil Slick Arrow, which gives Trick Arrow the best damage in a Primary of any defender.
[/ QUOTE ]
I believe Storm still holds this title. Oil Slick isn't up nearly enough to compete with Lightning Storm, and doesn't always ignite (even if you manage to not miss the Oil Slick target).
[/ QUOTE ]
*Ahem*
Fallout is still the most powerful attack.
Although Lightning Storm can outdamge it if it all of it's strikes hit the same target...
[/ QUOTE ]
Let's not forget about Tornado. Put some mobs in a box and it'll go to town.
Sgt Liberty - 50 Martial Arts / Super Reflexes
Verdigris Eagle - 50 Archery / Energy Manipulation
Stormeye - 50 Storm Summoning / Electric Blast
[ QUOTE ]
Story in a nutshell:
Trick Arrow used to have 4 Targeted AoE powers. That made using the set incredibly difficult (although, it was pretty cool.) During the test period, we decided to change 2 powers to standard AoE attacks. Poison Gas Arrow was one of them.
Originally, Poison Gas Arrow would leave a large pool of gas that lasted almost a minute. Any critter entering the gas cloud would be debuffed and a small chance of being put to sleep every quarter of a second. When we changed it to a normal AoE, though, the chance to sleep was left at it's original level. While that was fine for a power activating 4 times a second, for a one shot chance, it was patheticly (sp?) low.
So, I increased the sleep chance to a 'better' value. It's still not 100% of the time, but you should get between 50% and 66% of minions when it lands.
[/ QUOTE ]
Can you start making the debuffs better and not the holds? Defenders need improvement in this power set more than controllers. At least consider it! 
[ QUOTE ]
Story in a nutshell:
Trick Arrow used to have 4 Targeted AoE powers. That made using the set incredibly difficult (although, it was pretty cool.) During the test period, we decided to change 2 powers to standard AoE attacks. Poison Gas Arrow was one of them.
Originally, Poison Gas Arrow would leave a large pool of gas that lasted almost a minute. Any critter entering the gas cloud would be debuffed and a small chance of being put to sleep every quarter of a second. When we changed it to a normal AoE, though, the chance to sleep was left at it's original level. While that was fine for a power activating 4 times a second, for a one shot chance, it was patheticly (sp?) low.
So, I increased the sleep chance to a 'better' value. It's still not 100% of the time, but you should get between 50% and 66% of minions when it lands.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is another example of how you guys have almost no clue as to what is balanced for us. This set could not have been uber in no way shape or form. First off sleeps are pretty much worthless unless you solo. Everyone has and uses AoE attacks. We need new forms of mezzing. Trick arrow set should just be removed and rethought out. As a whole it does not bring much to the team. It does not do anything special that the other sets dont already do. Just look at your game data, we will never see an army of trick arrow defenders, controllers, or even masterminds.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
When it's up and it ignites, yeah, it's definitely nice.
[/ QUOTE ] Just got OS today. The first three times I tried to ignite it ..I didn't work. Then an En blaster set it off with power punch or something. HOLY MOLY! Those are some serious ticks. I'm amazed the power slows, debuffs defense, knocks down, and can do massive damage.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm amazed the power... debuffs defense.
[/ QUOTE ]
:cough:
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
* Graphics: Oil Slick's description says that it provides a defense debuff, however, there is no enemy graphic to indicate this. (Concern)
[/ QUOTE ]The Defense Debuff was removed before the power went live. The referrence in the short help is a mistake.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm amazed the power... debuffs defense.
[/ QUOTE ]
:cough:
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
* Graphics: Oil Slick's description says that it provides a defense debuff, however, there is no enemy graphic to indicate this. (Concern)
[/ QUOTE ]The Defense Debuff was removed before the power went live. The referrence in the short help is a mistake.
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]You know...I knew I had read that and I was hoping it was a dream. Alas.
Y'know, i can think of one thematically apropriate Trick Arrow buffing power...
Antidote Arrow. An ally-targetted AoE that mitigates status effects much like Stimulant or Clear Mind.
Anyway, i agree that it seems odd that so far the only buff/fix to TA so far would help controllers more than defenders. However, it makes sense since it's a matter of correcting an oversight when the power was changed, but i'm hoping that TA gets a few buffs in Issue 7 that improve its utility for defenders even more than for controllers.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
[ QUOTE ]
Y'know, i can think of one thematically apropriate Trick Arrow buffing power...
Antidote Arrow. An ally-targetted AoE that mitigates status effects much like Stimulant or Clear Mind.
[/ QUOTE ] Interesting idea...but good lord man...would you really want someone putting a hypoderm on the end of an arrow shaft and shooting you with it?
It should be a mind clearing gas arrow. Just dont' know what you'd get rid of.
Oh...and they should change the name of Ice arrow to "Cryo-Arrow".
[ QUOTE ]
I assume you mean TA originally had four Location AoEs; flash, glue, and PGA are targetted AoEs now.
[/ QUOTE ] I think what he means is that you target where the AoE lands as opposed to a normal aoe in which you target a victim.
Flash, PGA are normal AoE's...you target an individual and anyone in a radius gets hit.
Glue is a Location AoE...like Nemesis Sniper fire...your target an individual and that spot continues to have the effect.
Oil and DA are are still Targeted AoE's...you target the location for the AoE.
That's how I interpret his post.
[ QUOTE ]
So, I increased the sleep chance to a 'better' value. It's still not 100% of the time, but you should get between 50% and 66% of minions when it lands.
[/ QUOTE ]
Appreciate the time and effort, Castle!
Unfortunately, trick arrow is not going to become a balanced set simply by tweaking some numerical values. The overall manner in which the set works needs to be revisited.
Umber's Hall of Heroes & Villains
I knew you would flip when you saw Oil Slick. Every defender does when they see the damage.
The set still needs to have some tweaks done to powers like Entangle Arrow and Ice Arrow (debuffs should last longer and entangle needs to be made like Web Grenade). Acid Arrow really needs to have a larger AoE at least twice the size. Oil Slick needs to self light since many sets have a very hard time lighting it (just think about how a psionics defender will light it or an Ice controller) and if it is self lighting then they don't need to have that little oilslick pet which will get rid of the problems with pets targting the slick and in the case of singularity "humping it". If Flash is supposed to be identical to Smoke from the controller primary then it should auto-hit since smoke auto-hits and supposedly defender debuffs are supposed to be more effective than controller debuffs. If it misses it isn't very effective is it?
For all of my complaining about TA, these are the only fixes I am asking for. I think this is all it would take to put the set on par with Dark and Rad in terms of team benefit. Do you think I am asking for too much?
He's really going to flip out when oil slick is six slotted.
I'd like glue arrow to effect flyers. It doesn't have to have a -fly but can't it slow flight speed?
I'm not having too many problems with Flash Arrow. Usually if I can't hit with flash, I'm missing with my secondary as well. I can't recall how I have flash slotted, I think 2 Acc, and 1 Recharge.
I understand what you're saying about self lighting but I really enjoy the fact that my teamates can light the slick. Sometimes I think that's why they keep me around. I'd rather have them fix the pet issues or maybe make the slick invulnerable to non-fire damage. I really think Oil slick should ignite 100 percent of the time if you hit it. I hate seeing the "You'd defeated the Oil Slick" message with Blazing and not having it ignite. I've had streaks of it not igniting solo even when hit.
I don't mind the radius of Acid Arrow. I just wish the graphic would be reduced to match the actual radius.
I'm actually enjoying my TA defender. I can see why some of the defender veterans don't like the set but for me, it's the only defender I have. None of the other defender sets appeal to me.
I started a TA/Archer Def recently (currently lev 14). My concept was to be a very ranged. I was curious why Flash Arrow does not allow ranged enhancements? I mean, shouldn't all the powers in the Archery sets take range?
Maybe it's a bug? Anyways was just curious?
"if I am guilty for what goes on in my mind, than give me the electric chair for all my future crimes"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I assume you mean TA originally had four Location AoEs; flash, glue, and PGA are targetted AoEs now.
[/ QUOTE ] I think what he means is that you target where the AoE lands as opposed to a normal aoe in which you target a victim.
Flash, PGA are normal AoE's...you target an individual and anyone in a radius gets hit.
Glue is a Location AoE...like Nemesis Sniper fire...your target an individual and that spot continues to have the effect.
Oil and DA are are still Targeted AoE's...you target the location for the AoE.
That's how I interpret his post.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's how I interpreted his post as well, knowing what he was referring to. Its just that the in-game terminology appears to be used differently: attacks described as targetted AoEs target foes, Location AoEs target a spot (and some are just called "AoEs" which appear to generally be targetted) and generally apply a patch of some kind.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
[ QUOTE ]
He's really going to flip out when oil slick is six slotted.
I'd like glue arrow to effect flyers. It doesn't have to have a -fly but can't it slow flight speed?
I'm not having too many problems with Flash Arrow. Usually if I can't hit with flash, I'm missing with my secondary as well. I can't recall how I have flash slotted, I think 2 Acc, and 1 Recharge.
I understand what you're saying about self lighting but I really enjoy the fact that my teamates can light the slick. Sometimes I think that's why they keep me around. I'd rather have them fix the pet issues or maybe make the slick invulnerable to non-fire damage. I really think Oil slick should ignite 100 percent of the time if you hit it. I hate seeing the "You'd defeated the Oil Slick" message with Blazing and not having it ignite. I've had streaks of it not igniting solo even when hit.
I don't mind the radius of Acid Arrow. I just wish the graphic would be reduced to match the actual radius.
I'm actually enjoying my TA defender. I can see why some of the defender veterans don't like the set but for me, it's the only defender I have. None of the other defender sets appeal to me.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oil slick is invulnerable to every damage type but Fire and Energy. When it doesn't light up that is by design. It apparently just doesn't light up sometimes and they have already increased it's chance to light once I believe. It's great that you like your friends to be able to light it but I would rather not be hampered by a mechanic if my team composition happens to not include someone who can light it. I have been on teams with my TA where the only person with a chance to light it is myself and I only have blazing arrow to light the damn thing. It really sucks when Blazing Arrow misses twice in a row. It is essentially a waste of the long rechargeing power.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
After PvPing with TA, I really like that they chaged PGA to a targeted AoE
[/ QUOTE ]Very good point. When I first read Castle's post, I had Arcana's reaction. Then I realized that sometimes it's hard to find a spot to locate it...like if the target is flying, or in situations where mobs at are various levels. I've seen DA get stuck on some wall or ledge and not affect anyone. That's why I'd like the power to be able to do both...including the use of friendly's for a drop point. Of course I'm probably asking for something the tech can't support.
[/ QUOTE ]
Although its not as easy as a targetted AoE, you can hit things like flying targets with a location AoE. I can hit fliers with disruption arrow all the time: the foe itself is a valid target for the AoE. I don't remember explicitly trying it, but I believe you can target a friendly for DA. The trick is to keybind it: I use a "control+lbutton powexec_name disruption arrow" for the bind; if I control+left click on a villain, DA goes right to him.
Actually clicking on a flying (or superspeeding) PvP target might not be easy, of course, relative to just tabbing to him and letting the arrow fly. If they wanted to allow us to easily target foes with location AoEs, they could: they could add a "fire" macro or command that would launch the currently activated location AoE at the currently selected target. So something like "8" then "F" would activate disruption arrow, and then fire it at the currently selected target, if any, without having to mouse click (I don't believe there is any such command now, although I've been wrong on what keybinds can do in the past).
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm amazed the power... debuffs defense.
[/ QUOTE ]
:cough:
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
* Graphics: Oil Slick's description says that it provides a defense debuff, however, there is no enemy graphic to indicate this. (Concern)
[/ QUOTE ]The Defense Debuff was removed before the power went live. The referrence in the short help is a mistake.
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]You know...I knew I had read that and I was hoping it was a dream. Alas.
[/ QUOTE ]
No happy dreams for trick arrow defenders.
It would be unbalanced.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm amazed the power... debuffs defense.
[/ QUOTE ]
:cough:
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
* Graphics: Oil Slick's description says that it provides a defense debuff, however, there is no enemy graphic to indicate this. (Concern)
[/ QUOTE ]The Defense Debuff was removed before the power went live. The referrence in the short help is a mistake.
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]You know...I knew I had read that and I was hoping it was a dream. Alas.
[/ QUOTE ]
No happy dreams for trick arrow defenders.
It would be unbalanced.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, they can have happy dreams, but they have to wait four months between them.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
[ QUOTE ]
Its just that the in-game terminology appears to be used differently
[/ QUOTE ] I concede I was a little confused at first.
[ QUOTE ]
The trick is to keybind it: I use a "control+lbutton powexec_name disruption arrow" for the bind; if I control+left click on a villain, DA goes right to him.
[/ QUOTE ] Now that I was not aware of. I'll try it out.
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think I am asking for too much?
[/ QUOTE ] lol...well, just to take a stroll down memory lane, our first dialogue started when I responded to your list of blaster wants way back in I3 or something. I thought it was pretty over the top.
As far as this wish list, it's not outrageous. If people think the set needs improvement ...so be it. I'm not trying to stop the set from being improved, unless it will trivialize the game...which brings us to...
[ QUOTE ]
I think this is all it would take to put the set on par with Dark and Rad in terms of team benefit.
[/ QUOTE ] Dark Miasma is ridiculous. Dark/Dark is even worse. The only thing that keeps a Dark defender in check is the lack of mez protection. Rad is really really good as well. I think those sets are almost too good.
Rad does have more drawbacks than Dark IMO, but it makes up for it with a higher level of offense. Anchor debuffing is negative. Anchor longevity is highly unpredictable and the radius from EF and RI is very small compared to the radius of FA or PGA. But nothing beats a heal in terms of utility or the value of an in-combat rez to full strength.
I do not want to see TA as good as Dark. A D/D is just so damn dominating on teams and if a TA/A had that kind of effect, it would be too much. To the extent that a lot of the complaints are really about the abilit to solo....that's a different issue.
TA defends a team. Arcy joked that one of the good things is that it allows you to play at a higher level of difficulty. It's kind of true. I like a set that helps the team, but does not trivialize the battle. I like being able to win when the team executes, and lose when we don't. To me, that is tremendously important in a game. I often get the feeling people dont' realize that. They are so intent on making their set "balanced" (<nod> to LadyMage) that they don't stop to think of what happens when they get there.
With the exception of the Sewer Trial done at the appropriate level (haven't done the Shard missions), there are so few real challenges in this game (but Snaptooth is one nasty [censored] [censored]).
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think I am asking for too much?
[/ QUOTE ] Too little? Don't forget flash arrow has almost twice the activation fo smoke. So if it's going to have the performance of smoke it should have alower activation time. A lot of TA activation times just seem out of whack like almost old days MA out of whack.
Well Mieux, while I agree that we should be careful to not ask too much, and do agree that dark miasma is over the top, I also agree with Concern and several others on the forums. Too many of the powers in TA are poorly executed, and the set itself seems very weak. Oil Slick can be powerful, when it can be lighted, but the recharge on Glue arrow is stupidly long, and flash arrow being on par with Smoke grenade is pretty dumb. It's a defender primary power. It should not be balanced to a blaster secondary.
Trick arrow is not balanced in the gamer's sense ("When my powers are better than everyone else's, balance is achieved") nor in the more conservative sense (I'd like to have a fighting chance to be comparable to others of my AT). It needs some work. The ideas were all there, but the execution fumbled the dismount.
[ QUOTE ]
Dark Miasma is ridiculous. Dark/Dark is even worse. The only thing that keeps a Dark defender in check is the lack of mez protection. Rad is really really good as well. I think those sets are almost too good.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't believe "ridiculous" is the correct adjective to use. Dark Miasma with the ability to perma-hold bosses, keep two spawns Feared consistently, and stack two tar patches under any AV fight while trailing three dark servants might have been ridiculous (lots of healing power there, plus fairly strong offensive boosts).
However, the current slotting required to even approach that in the current game means sacrificing other things. Going Dark/Dark means sacrificing a considerable amount of offensive potential in exchange for a relatively trivial amount of control. If you want Petrifying Gaze or Fearsome Stare to have the kind of control it had before (or, more realistically, only approach it), you need to slot them up. You only get one Dark Servant at a time, now, and it is not perma like Controller pets. You have to recast it every four minutes or so if you want to keep it around.
To be honest, I think the only real advantage my D3 had over an Empath in issue 4 was the ability to protect a larger team, where an Empath would have to pick and choose buff targets. Even so, recovery Aura, Fortitude on three or four targets and adrenaline boost on one was and remains fairly potent. My D3 can't help any reach their damage caps (the 18% boost from Assault is pretty minor by itself), boost recharge rates, boost recovery, and so on. The only real buff the set has is resistance against energy, negative, psi, and protection from fear. The debuffs are good, but I'm not sure that they're "too good" or even "almost too good." There's also the fact that the debuffs only work at full power against even-level stuff, and drops fairly quickly as the levels increase.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget Oil Slick Arrow, which gives Trick Arrow the best damage in a Primary of any defender.
[/ QUOTE ]
I believe Storm still holds this title. Oil Slick isn't up nearly enough to compete with Lightning Storm, and doesn't always ignite (even if you manage to not miss the Oil Slick target).
[/ QUOTE ]
*Ahem*
Fallout is still the most powerful attack.
Although Lightning Storm can outdamge it if it all of it's strikes hit the same target...