My TA slots acc in just one power: acid arrow. If that hits, I'm targeting things under it's effects. Even without it I can fight +3 and +4 without accuracy issues being too bad due to archery's inherant acc boosts. Ice arrow I might eventualy add a slot of acc into, but had to devote too many slots for recharge to put accuracy in most anything.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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Time and time again, I ask defenders of TA to show me where the TA defenders are. They look around and around in viegn.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sadly, despite having a TA/A approaching level 38 and enjoying her immensely, I still can't defend TA with any reasonable argument. The concept is great. The implimentation is pootastic.
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I guess they could nerf it further but it wouldn't really matter to the popularity that TA has.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, they will. Entangling Arrow's recharge is short enough to be used as a control without any slotting at all, and Oil Slick Arrow (the single redemption of the set) is just plain overpowered when it does light up.
Oh, yes, TA will be nerfed. Hard.
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What would make TA popular? Well, I suppose we could all take Mieux's approach and sing the praises of the few things TA does well but that falls flat when most people play it and have bad experiences.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's great for pulling aggro off of tanks! Nothing like firing off Flash Arrow, letting the tank go in immediately afterward, and having half a dozen enemies utterly ignore him because they're howling for your blood. TA is definitely THE tank-saving set!
[ QUOTE ]
My TA slots acc in just one power: acid arrow. If that hits, I'm targeting things under it's effects. Even without it I can fight +3 and +4 without accuracy issues being too bad due to archery's inherant acc boosts. Ice arrow I might eventualy add a slot of acc into, but had to devote too many slots for recharge to put accuracy in most anything.
[/ QUOTE ]
Try soloing the vampyre capsules mission in Striga without every single shot landing on its target 100% of the time.
At +4, your accuracy is not as important on attacks because they aren't really contributing much damage to a team anyway. The inherent accuracy of archery is about one DOs worth: if you are happy with the accuracy of archery's inherent accuracy without additional slotting, you'd be happy with one DO's worth of accuracy in a set with no bonus: most people these days aren't. Sets like rad or katana are very different: they have defense debuffs, which are much stronger, and stackable, than the inherent accuracy bonus of things like archery and MA.
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My TA slots acc in just one power: acid arrow. If that hits, I'm targeting things under it's effects. Even without it I can fight +3 and +4 without accuracy issues being too bad due to archery's inherant acc boosts. Ice arrow I might eventualy add a slot of acc into, but had to devote too many slots for recharge to put accuracy in most anything.
[/ QUOTE ]
Try soloing the vampyre capsules mission in Striga without every single shot landing on its target 100% of the time.
At +4, your accuracy is not as important on attacks because they aren't really contributing much damage to a team anyway. The inherent accuracy of archery is about one DOs worth: if you are happy with the accuracy of archery's inherent accuracy without additional slotting, you'd be happy with one DO's worth of accuracy in a set with no bonus: most people these days aren't. Sets like rad or katana are very different: they have defense debuffs, which are much stronger, and stackable, than the inherent accuracy bonus of things like archery and MA.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, but that's when I whip out acid arrow and debuff defense/damage resistsnce. I know who's affected cause of the little orange 1s floating above their head. That I'm slotting def-debuff in as soon as I find someone selling me magic def debuff SOs.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Oil Slick is decent?
I thought it caused fear and did utterly craptastic damage...
is it actually good? 
(no seriously, I absolutely LOVED TA when I tried it...I'm just interested in how it does now)
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Oil Slick is decent?
I thought it caused fear and did utterly craptastic damage...
is it actually good?
(no seriously, I absolutely LOVED TA when I tried it...I'm just interested in how it does now)
[/ QUOTE ]
I can defeat 16 even-con minions at once with it. Oil Slick Arrow, Blazing Arrow to light it, and sit back to watch the show. The AoE is very large, the damage, when slotted with 3 enhancements, is JUST enough to take out even-con minions, and it's both a knockdown and a slow, so it's tough for runners to get out before the burn finishes them.
That's why it's going to get nerfed. It's basically a pre-ED defender nova. When combined with something like Disruption Arrow, it's even more powerful. Throw in Glue Arrow to keep everything moving as slowly as possible, and most of the time, you can turn an entire spawn (within the 16 enemy limitation) into a pile of ashes without anything but lieutenants or bosses getting out. The caveat is that it's finicky about lighting. Some days, it'll light EVERY time you use it, other days... well, it can get extremely frustrating.
They'll nerf it, though, despite its quirky behavior being one of the inherant limitations on the power. Probably by removing the ability to slot for damage. Especially with the ability to buff things like rains that's coming, which will probably also allow you to buff the damage on OSA.
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and telling people that think it needs some tweaks/work that they just suck at the set.
[/ QUOTE ] This is a lie. I've said the set is great if you are skilled. To that end people have told me I was wrong. My response is that you lack the requisite skill.
No where...and no place...has this anything to do with whether or not a person is calling for an improvement. I have made comments that giving TA a perma-sticky-anchorless-debuff is too powerful. That's my opinion, nothing else.
Accusing me "hating" people who want to improve the set is a bold faced lie. Either retract that statement or I'll just ignore your posts.
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you use now when trying to explain to me how the set was balanced.
[/ QUOTE ] I have never said the set was balanced. So your entire post is moot.
Common guys, can't we just all agree that Mieux is the single greatest and most skilled player in the game? Odds are that everyone else in this thread is wrong...right?
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I had mentioned in passing that my dark/rad and TA/A both forgo accuracy enhancements
[/ QUOTE ] No...you responded to a tangent started by Blue in which he said...
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In which case :
Radiation can debuff defense to the point where accuracy enhancements are unneeded against purple-con mobs. Trick Arrow's doesn't seem to.
[/ QUOTE ]
I assumed he meant for a team...in which case I sarcastically responsed that nobody removes their acc enhancements because Rads have RI. Others challenged this on a solo basis. Since I haven't replaced the +Acc enhancment on my Rad/Rad for four levels, I conceded that with RI slotted, you don't need +Acc as a soloer.
You came along and claimed you were soloing on Rugged without any acc enhancements...let's look at some of your statements:
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My TA slots acc in acid arrow, and can't solo the second dificulty due to encountering bosses
[/ QUOTE ] The second level of difficulty is the exact same level of mobs as the first....the spawns are bigger. So claiming the the "second dificulty[sic]" level bosses are a show stopper means the first level ones would be a show stopper, which means you are lying i.e. Making stuff up.
You then said this:
[ QUOTE ]
My dark/rad defender doesn't slot accuracy in attacks, and solos the third dificulty.
[/ QUOTE ] and my entire comment was "lmao...ya, sure ya do." In other words...I challenge your definition of soloing.
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I had mentioned in passing that my dark/rad and TA/A both forgo accuracy enhancements, at which point he (she?) began calling me a lier.
[/ QUOTE ] Wrong.
You responded and said:
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Rad Blast's -defense stacks with it's self, so if I hit once, I keep hitting.
[/ QUOTE ] This is the bold faced lie. THIS is the quote I singled out and accused you of lying through your teeth. Go back and reread the thread. Don't try and act like I was denying how you slotted or what you had your setting on. Once you hit ...you do not "keep on hitting" +2's with no accuracy.
Based on your other posts, I am not at all surprised you have no accuracy in your attacks and are attempting to solo +2's. I did not accuse you of lying about those things. I do not believe you solo'd Heracles unless you used a tray full of inspirations for just that battle.
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Base accuracy of 75% right?
[/ QUOTE ] Not against +2's.
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It takes about the same length of time as my rad/rad
[/ QUOTE ] So with RI, EF, and AM, your Rad/Rad doesn't finish fights any faster than your Dark/Rad? Why do I suddenly believe you are telling the truth...
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...and about 2/3 the time my scrappers take to solo each mission.
[/ QUOTE ] So now you claim your dark/rad...with no +Acc takes 2/3'rds the time as your scrapper? Again....having seen your slotting on your Dark/Rad...I can't say this suprises me.
M_E...at this point I will decline from debating with you. I'm not ignoring you...I just think you and I are on different wavelengths about this game. You're entitled to your playstyle as much as I am entitled to mine. Good luck to you.
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You came along and claimed you were soloing on Rugged without any acc enhancements...let's look at some of your statements:
[ QUOTE ]
My TA slots acc in acid arrow, and can't solo the second dificulty due to encountering bosses
[/ QUOTE ] The second level of difficulty is the exact same level of mobs as the first....the spawns are bigger. So claiming the the "second diiculty[sic]" level bosses are a show stopper means the first level ones would be a show stopper, which means you are lying i.e. Making stuff up.
[/ QUOTE ]
Mieux. The first level of difficulty doesnt even have bosses. The only bosses you will see on Heroic difficulty are hard-coded end of mission bosses. And even those function at the level of Lieutenants. Bosses do not spawn as random mobs on the first difficulty level. End of mission bosses are functionally Lieutenants in terms of dmg, hit points, mez resistance, etc. Don't accuse people of lying if you don't even know what you're talking about.
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Don't accuse people of lying if you don't even know what you're talking about.
[/ QUOTE ] Did I say that bosses spawned anywhere jackass? No. I'm showing by extension that that whatever M_E thinks are bosses in Tenacious, the are the same that are in Heroic. And for the record, I have seen bosses spawn in large teams on Heroic.
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Don't accuse people of lying if you don't even know what you're talking about.
[/ QUOTE ] Don't accuse people of saying something they aren't.
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If PGA was more like Poison Gas Trap from Traps (and IMO it really needs a longer duration), and Entangle was more like Web Grenade, I'd call it a day and be happy.
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If PGA was like poison gas trap from Traps, and ranged, I think I'd do more than call it a day and be happy. I think I'll have the devs's babies.
Of course, that means that it'll be a ridiculously powerful Controller set though, with lots of powers being better for a Controller than for a Defender.
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[ QUOTE ]
Don't accuse people of lying if you don't even know what you're talking about.
[/ QUOTE ] Did I say that bosses spawned anywhere jackass? No. I'm showing by extension that that whatever M_E thinks are bosses in Tenacious, the are the same that are in Heroic. And for the record, I have seen bosses spawn in large teams on Heroic.
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Don't accuse people of lying if you don't even know what you're talking about.
[/ QUOTE ] Don't accuse people of saying something they aren't.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, what a cracked out stupid argument.
The originator of the issue was talking about SOLOING. Of course there are bosses in 8 person heroic missions, you've topped out your team size, they throw everything at you. But when you solo, as M_E was talking about, there are almost no bosses in any missions. You get a steady string of lieutenants all the way to the end of the mission arc, where maybe you'll see a boss.
When you kick up to Tenacious, you start to see bosses at the end where before you saw Lts. So when he said that he could solo on the first setting but not the second, and sighted the boss reasoning as why, what was it about that statement that you found so incorrect? Because I'm following it completely.
Were you defensive that you got it wrong, was that why you called Brasswire a jackass?
By the way, your "[sic]" was a misquote (kind of ironic)...
[ QUOTE ]
When you kick up to Tenacious, you start to see bosses at the end where before you saw Lts.
[/ QUOTE ] I haven't seen bosses on Tenacious when soloing. When I see bosses on Heroic...they are the same level as the bosses in Tenacious. If some of the story arcs have bosses on Tenacious and not in Heroic...then that makes more sense. I haven't seen that. If that's what the engine is doing...then I owe M_E an apology. I'll be checking that out in the future.
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By the way, your "[sic]" was a misquote (kind of ironic)...
[/ QUOTE ] A typo on the Internet...what a scoop!
EDIT:
[ QUOTE ]
Were you defensive that you got it wrong, was that why you called Brasswire a jackass?
[/ QUOTE ] No. I actually read into M_E's post a little. For some reason I thought she was talking about the bosses being too difficult because they were higher in level. The reason why is becuse she said she slotted accuracy in Acid Arrow and couldn't solo the bosses. Arcana has pointed out that bosses don't have any higher intrinsic defense than minions. So it comes across to me as: "despite putting accuracy in Acid Arrow, which debuffs defense, I still can't hit the higher level bosses on Tenacious." Of course she was just talking about bosses period..and may have been lamenting the -res of Acid Arrow not being enough. I don't know.
I called Brass out because he insinuates that I don't know Heroic doesn't have bosses solo. Heroic has bosses...when you have teams. My statement in regards to M_E was that the bosses on Heroic and Tenacious are the same in difficulty but not intended to refute the existance of them. But as you pointed out, M_E is talking about soloing in which case Ten sometimes has bosses where Heroic doesn't. My error was not being clear on what M_E was talking about....which was my error. Technically, I thought she was talking about something she wasn't and that is on me.
[ QUOTE ]
The second level of difficulty is the exact same level of mobs as the first....the spawns are bigger. So claiming the the "second dificulty[sic]" level bosses are a show stopper means the first level ones would be a show stopper, which means you are lying i.e. Making stuff up.
[/ QUOTE ] i'll have to eat a little crow on this one M_E. I only solo on Heroic when I'm trying to finish story arcs before leveling. The vast majority of my Heroic and Tenacious mission have been on teams, so I haven't finished any story arcs on Tenacious. I tried two missions and in one...neither diff had a boss. In another, one had a PP lt, the other a PP boss. Clearly you were not "making stuff up" about bosses on Tenacious. Apologies.
As I said in my above post, due to our vastly different approaches to this game, I'm not going try and rebut your position on TA, even if you attack mine.
Edit: Y'know what, nevermind. You admitted you made a mistake and apologized to M_E. But please, continue to debate what I said, call me names, and make yourself look silly.
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That I'm slotting def-debuff in as soon as I find someone selling me magic def debuff SOs.
[/ QUOTE ] The Magic store in Talos will sell you magic -Def debuff SO's.
[ QUOTE ]
This statement is in fact not true.
[/ QUOTE ] The guides that Iv'e seen say the level range is identical for Tenacious and Heroic, the differenc is the spawn size. When going through both missions tonight...even the one which spawned the boss in one and the Lt's in the other...the mobs were exactly the same levels.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you use now when trying to explain to me how the set was balanced.
[/ QUOTE ] I have never said the set was balanced. So your entire post is moot.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is a difference between trying to balance a set, the method of balancing a set and actually creating a set that is "balanced".
Your response to what I wrote is thus short and pointless.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you use now when trying to explain to me how the set was balanced.
[/ QUOTE ] I have never said the set was balanced. So your entire post is moot.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is a difference between trying to balance a set, the method of balancing a set and actually creating a set that is "balanced".
Your response to what I wrote is thus short and pointless.
[/ QUOTE ]Your original post compared me to people who attacked you for suggesting improvements. I have attacked no one for suggesting improvements. You have repeatedly accused me of attacking people for trying to improve the set and I have done no such thing, nor have you produced a single quote to that extent.
There is a difference in defending myself against people who are also trying to improve the set and attacking people for trying to improve the set. As such your post is inaccurate and pointless.
EDIT:
If anyone wants to debate this anymore with me...let's do it through PM's...this thread needs to die.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When you kick up to Tenacious, you start to see bosses at the end where before you saw Lts.
[/ QUOTE ] I haven't seen bosses on Tenacious when soloing. When I see bosses on Heroic...they are the same level as the bosses in Tenacious. If some of the story arcs have bosses on Tenacious and not in Heroic...then that makes more sense. I haven't seen that. If that's what the engine is doing...then I owe M_E an apology. I'll be checking that out in the future.
[ QUOTE ]
By the way, your "[sic]" was a misquote (kind of ironic)...
[/ QUOTE ] A typo on the Internet...what a scoop!
EDIT:
[ QUOTE ]
Were you defensive that you got it wrong, was that why you called Brasswire a jackass?
[/ QUOTE ] No. I actually read into M_E's post a little. For some reason I thought she was talking about the bosses being too difficult because they were higher in level. The reason why is becuse she said she slotted accuracy in Acid Arrow and couldn't solo the bosses. Arcana has pointed out that bosses don't have any higher intrinsic defense than minions. So it comes across to me as: "despite putting accuracy in Acid Arrow, which debuffs defense, I still can't hit the higher level bosses on Tenacious." Of course she was just talking about bosses period..and may have been lamenting the -res of Acid Arrow not being enough. I don't know.
I called Brass out because he insinuates that I don't know Heroic doesn't have bosses solo. Heroic has bosses...when you have teams. My statement in regards to M_E was that the bosses on Heroic and Tenacious are the same in difficulty but not intended to refute the existance of them. But as you pointed out, M_E is talking about soloing in which case Ten sometimes has bosses where Heroic doesn't. My error was not being clear on what M_E was talking about....which was my error. Technically, I thought she was talking about something she wasn't and that is on me.
[/ QUOTE ]
Try for a soloing TA/A bosses are too dificult cause I can't actualy prevent damage at all. Even if I took and slotted FA I can't prevent them from missing more then once. I can slow them, but they still attack. I can lower their damage, but they still do damage. I can lower their defense and damage resistance, but their still attacking. I can stack enough imobs to keep then away for a few seconds, but they are still attacking. Defenders don't do as much damage as blasters as well. That means I aint got enough HP to take them out before they take me out. I was on tenatious, until bosses began appearing. At that point I was going into debt every mission. Nope, not gonna do that. I can hit even level easy. I can hit +1 easy. I can hit +2 sort of easy. I can hit +3 and +4 ok. But while soloing my TA/A can't take out a single boss?! In teams I tend to act as a boss killer, but then there's enough going on that I likely won't keep the agro. If I do, I die. Ice Arrow is the most reliable way of shutting down Lts and Bosses, but can't hold a boss. It's slow is negligable too. This is a toon I doubt will ever solo higher then heroic. Maybe once I got oil slick I can bump it up, not sure yet.
Oh, if you think Tenatous only has bosses sometimes, it's every door mission after level 5 or six almost. Very few times does it NOT have a boss at the end. My controler also can't solo higher then heroic due to those bosses just yet.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This statement is in fact not true.
[/ QUOTE ] The guides that Iv'e seen say the level range is identical for Tenacious and Heroic, the differenc is the spawn size. When going through both missions tonight...even the one which spawned the boss in one and the Lt's in the other...the mobs were exactly the same levels.
[/ QUOTE ]
THe other half of the difrance your forgetting, you NEVER see a boss while soloing on heroic. If you do, it's a bugged mission or an Elite Boss. Named enemies or mission bosses are downgraded to Lt status.
Ten lets you fight twice the number of enemies, and kicks things up with bosses as well. Enemy levels are +0 and +1, same as heroic.
Rugged is the same number of enemies as heroic, +1 and +2, and has bosses.
Unyielding is double the amount, +1 and +2 with bosses.
Invincble is normal sized spawns, +2 and +3 with bosses.
Notice how everything but heroic includes bosses. I hear it use to be Ten dificulty was the defult, and only setting. Could be wrong since it woulda been before I found CoH.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you use now when trying to explain to me how the set was balanced.
[/ QUOTE ] I have never said the set was balanced. So your entire post is moot.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is a difference between trying to balance a set, the method of balancing a set and actually creating a set that is "balanced".
Your response to what I wrote is thus short and pointless.
[/ QUOTE ]Your original post compared me to people who attacked you for suggesting improvements. I have attacked no one for suggesting improvements. You have repeatedly accused me of attacking people for trying to improve the set and I have done no such thing, nor have you produced a single quote to that extent.
There is a difference in defending myself against people who are also trying to improve the set and attacking people for trying to improve the set. As such your post is inaccurate and pointless.
EDIT:
If anyone wants to debate this anymore with me...let's do it through PM's...this thread needs to die.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actualy the thread as intendied is needed. BTW, if you wanna claim your not attacking anyone, what about me? Youve attacked me, called me a lier over and over. acused all of us of not knowing how to play CoH...
Oh yeah, and I've been one of TA's most vocal defenders since it hit live. Just ask Concern, we've argued about it in thread after thread. What I've never been is a fool who thinks it isn't broken, rather I've defended the fact that it's not completely gimped. Gimped sure, but still workable.
The reason this thread was created? To call dev attention to Trick Arrow's many faults. That is a valid reason for a thread. One I can support, so LETS GET BACK TO THAT TOPIC. No more accusing others of lying based on wishful thinking. And for pete's sake stop trying to claim the set's functioning better then it is. It's an ok set, with holes the size of the grand canyon. Donna Fae is a effective defender dispite her powerset, not because of it. I sacrificed power for the ability to actualy use my debuffs. That meens my debuffs aren't all that great yet. They just come up offten enough to be used more then every three fights.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
[ QUOTE ]
I had mentioned in passing that my dark/rad and TA/A both forgo accuracy enhancements, at which point he (she?) began calling me a lier.
[/ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't call someone a liar unless I was on incredibly sturdy ground, but I will say that while slotting accuracy for dark/rad (or especially rad/rad) is somewhat of a matter of taste, I personally think its a little bit crazy not to slot TA for accuracy, especially on powers like flash arrow that I'd rather not have to reapply multiple times, and acid arrow that, if it misses, is a huge opportunity cost penalty (doubly so if you are trying to stack it with disruption arrow).
And there's no way I'm not slotting blazing for accuracy, since missing the oil slick is a Bad Thing: miss twice, and you've probably lost your chance to ignite it.
(BTW, I've played rad/rad without acc, and kin/rad without accuracy in the rad attacks - but definitely acc in the kinetics powers. In rad/rad, I used to replace acc with end, because at low to moderate levels even with AM rad/rad defenders tend to run out of end faster than they run out of health.)
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