And only partly so at that.
-Perception that usually doesn't hit all of the mob, making it effectively useless.
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lol...yeah...with a team of lvl 50's fighting +2's...I should think so.
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There were two lvl 50's, two in their 30's being sk'd to them, a lvl 49 and a lvl 43 sk'd to me at 47-48(leveled last night), another 2 48-49 or so. It wasn't a team of lvl 50's and me being powerleveled.
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This is a different issue. Two different AT's. The fact that the powers share the same base value means that the powers share the same base value. One power is called "Flash Arrow," the other is not. You'll need to put forth an argument why the mechanics of one is relevant to the other.
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Let me spell it out for you since you can't seem to grasp the idea. Concern hit the nail on the head and didn't need any further explination to get the point, but I'll make it easy for ya. With FA, fighting anything over even level is nearly worthless as a -perception as well as -acc because it takes MULTIPLE applications to get the entire group. If you don't get the entire group your -perception is WORTHLESS because the group will aggro anyway. So fighting anything above your level you get neither a whorthwhile acc debuff or perception debuff. Hence the power is WORTHLESS. It does nothing to help you or your team. Whereas Smoke, even with identical -acc and -perfepction debuffs is far superior because it auto-hits and will give -perception at that level with one application. Which is about all you could hope for out of a power like that at that level.
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You are entirely missing the point. Whether it is ordinary or not, none of the powers in the game are designed around your ability to fight +5's. Complaining that TA is worthless because you can't hit +5's is evidence of your being out of touch with this game's fundamental assumptions .
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I have said over and over again that I don't think TA is worthless. I didn't get all the way to 48 thinking that the entire set is worthless. Hell, my calls for buffs to the set aren't as drastic as Concern's or Parrot's for instance(although I don't think they are far off and have no problem with either of their perspectives). Nice try at a straw man though. I said Flash Arrow was worthless, not Trick Arrow. But you know that already and were simply trying to argue an easier point that I never made. Again, nice try.
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"quite useful?" Really? Can you tell me the % of -dmg PGA was doing against +5's? Or how about DA's -res. I'd love to see the values against +5's.
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Yeah, 'quite useful'. Glue Arrow slowed just fine. Oil Slick knocked them down and slowed them. The damage from it at that level was negligble though. Disruption Arrow debuffed their resistance. Acid Arrow debuffed their resistance and defence so that once hit with it I never had trouble hitting that mob again. Even PGA did it's job. I don't need to know the numbers to know that it was helping. When I didnt' fire it off, the regen scrapper that thought he was a tank died in the aftermath of the alpha-strike. When I did he'd be ok. There were only a few times where he got cocky and killed himself before the rest of us were ready thankfully. EMP arrow did a great job when things got out of hand, holding mobs, even with a short duration, with no problem. Even Ice Arrow saved my own butt a few times when I mob came after me. But FA was compltely useless. It's not a hard concept.
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Why weren't you sidekicked? Power-leveling?
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Um... There wasn't one for me? At lvl 47 only a lvl 50 could sk me. Also I hit 48 the middle of a mission so the point is moot anyway. Nice try at a character attack though.
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Ah...If you're 47, at some point you should also be facing +6's. Yeah...I'm sure they rely on your debuffs heavily.
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Again, see above, I didn't say they were relying heavily on my debuffs anywhere, just that they were useful. You probably already know that too. They all did their job to an extent even against +6's except for FA though. That one power had no point in the situation described above. Perhaps you don't know the set as well as you think you do if you can't understand how it is still usefull even against +6 mobs, somthing fairly common for most people to fight since the 40+ content was released in Issue 2.
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There were two lvl 50's, two in their 30's being sk'd to them, a lvl 49 and a lvl 43 sk'd to me at 47-48(leveled last night), another 2 48-49 or so. It wasn't a team of lvl 50's and me being powerleveled.
[/ QUOTE ] If I can lead team of pre-30's on Invinc missions facing +3's and +4's without defeats....lvl 50's, with prolly twice as many slots (to say nothing of Hami-O's) and 1/3 more powers, aren't even going to be phased by +2's.
The fact that I can have players drop from my Invinc missons and we still get through them fine means that your presence is not determinitive of the success.
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With FA, fighting anything over even level is nearly worthless as a -perception as well as -acc because it takes MULTIPLE applications to get the entire group.
[/ QUOTE ] When I've faced +4's...with 1 stale acc and two players running Tactics...I hit about 70-90% against them. YMMV.
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I said Flash Arrow was worthless, not Trick Arrow.
[/ QUOTE ] lol...obviously I meant FA, not TA. PGA, DA, and GA do not require to-hit checks.
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Yeah, 'quite useful'.
[/ QUOTE ] You do now that the value of the debuff is reduced as mobs go up on level right? So DA is not giving you 20% -res like it is agianst even level mobs. I'm not sure what it gets reduced to against +5's...but if you find it "quite useful" then I guess you need to step back and afford me the same courtesy if I think FA is "quite useful."
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Nice try at a character attack though.
[/ QUOTE ] Lol...this is rich. "Chararcter attack" hunh? I merely asked if you were power-leveling and now you call it a charcter attack? I guess that means you're the one attacking the character of people who power level.
And btw...i've never written one bad word on people who power-level.
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Again, see above, I didn't say they were relying heavily on my debuffs anywhere
[/ QUOTE ] I know..it's called sarcasm. I am implying that your buffs aren't really amounting to a hill of beans against +5's. But hey, if you think they are doing something....that's all that matters.
I'm not sure what you want from me, B_M. I'm just here to say TA is a great set if you have some skill / knowledge.
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I'd be happy with a long recharge, and a larger (20%?) debuff
[/ QUOTE ] I believe that three slottd, the debuff may be as high as 20%. You also need to go back and look at my "AND" clause. While FA on it's own isn't "awesome" agianst +3's, it stacks with other debuffs (which is a reference to debuffs and +def of others on your team, since you still didn't grok).
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If I can lead team of pre-30's on Invinc missions facing +3's and +4's without defeats....lvl 50's, with prolly twice as many slots (to say nothing of Hami-O's) and 1/3 more powers, aren't even going to be phased by +2's.
The fact that I can have players drop from my Invinc missons and we still get through them fine means that your presence is not determinitive of the success.
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And you bring this up why? I wasn't bragging, I was explaining that it wasn't just a PL team as you insinuated. That's it. No need to tell me of your experiences. And again, there is a difference between being 'useful' and being 'determinitive of the success' which I obviously wasn't talking about.
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When I've faced +4's...with 1 stale acc and two players running Tactics...I hit about 70-90% against them. YMMV.
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Well, as you said, YMMV. But when talking about -perception 70%-90% doesn't really matter. It's still useless as explained above.
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I said Flash Arrow was worthless, not Trick Arrow.
[/ QUOTE ] lol...obviously I meant FA, not TA. PGA, DA, and GA do not require to-hit checks.
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Nice fake there but you said:
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You are entirely missing the point. Whether it is ordinary or not, none of the powers in the game are designed around your ability to fight +5's. Complaining that TA is worthless because you can't hit +5's is evidence of your being out of touch with this game's fundamental assumptions .
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You were arguing as if I said TA was worthless and now you are trying to say you didnt' say that. You got caught in what is now looking like an obvious INTENTIONAL straw man. Just be a man and admit it or clarify in a logical sense what you were actually trying to do. Trying to twist my words on a message board where you can see what was actually said is kinda silly.
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Yeah, 'quite useful'.
[/ QUOTE ] You do now that the value of the debuff is reduced as mobs go up on level right? So DA is not giving you 20% -res like it is agianst even level mobs. I'm not sure what it gets reduced to against +5's...but if you find it "quite useful" then I guess you need to step back and afford me the same courtesy if I think FA is "quite useful."
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FA can be useful in certain situations. But as an acc debuff it's not even in the same ball park with any other defender set's acc debuff and you know it. And as a perception debuff it's rendered all but useless unless you are afforded the chance to pre-debuff while waiting for a team to be ready because it takes multiple applications to catch them all and even then it's staggered in it's duration. Not the best in the heat of battle to take multiple applications when Smoke auto-hits which was my point.
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Lol...this is rich. "Chararcter attack" hunh? I merely asked if you were power-leveling and now you call it a charcter attack? I guess that means you're the one attacking the character of people who power level.
And btw...i've never written one bad word on people who power-level.
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You just did with that insinuation and the context of this argument.
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I know..it's called sarcasm. I am implying that your buffs aren't really amounting to a hill of beans against +5's. But hey, if you think they are doing something....that's all that matters.
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Um... I know it was sarcasm, but it was totally misdirected. Another straw man attempt. Your sarcasm was intended to attack an argument I never made. I clarified simply to point out that you were attempting to do that. Perhaps that's all the ammo you have though.
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I'm not sure what you want from me, B_M. I'm just here to say TA is a great set if you have some skill / knowledge.
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That's fine, but all anybody here is trying to do is get the dev's to look at a set that needs some help. Not a lot of help, but obviously there are quite a few of us that are passionate about this set and want it to be what we all know it can be. And all you seem to want to do is boast how good you are with the set and how everybody else sucks with it. Well, we don't need your input, thanks. We can't really have much of a discussion about the set with you because you would rather attack people's skill with it than actually LISTEN to their arguments. So hey, you go ahead and tell people that it's a great set but don't give them false hope. And allow us our attempts to make it better. I mean really, how will it hurt you at all if TA gets a buff? You won't be 1337 anymore?
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I'd be happy with a long recharge, and a larger (20%?) debuff
[/ QUOTE ] I believe that three slottd, the debuff may be as high as 20%. You also need to go back and look at my "AND" clause. While FA on it's own isn't "awesome" agianst +3's, it stacks with other debuffs (which is a reference to debuffs and +def of others on your team, since you still didn't grok).
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I belive when people quote numbers like that they are usually talking about base numbers. A 20% base acc debuff is a far cry from a fully slotted 20% and you know it. But I doubt it's near 20% even fully slotted.
As a follow up to this....
I took my lvl 29 up against some lvl 35's and 36's. Got teamed with a lvl 34 fire/fire tank on Invinc....they didn't have a Sk for me. The team was a lvl 32 Inv/Mace tank, the lvl 34, and a sk emp to the lvl 32.
Against +5's and +6's...I wasn't hitting very many. One small Insight and I hit like 90% on one spawn...but that's anecdotal.
I do see where you felt like your debuffs made a diff against +5's. I felt that way too...but that's just how I felt. No way to know if he really could have survived without a -5 lvl def putting down PGA. I suppose he would have had to use an extra inspiration or two.
Later...we did missions with jus the two tanks and myself. The level 32 tank...did more watching than fighting...but these wer 36's and 37's. I was SK'd to lvl 33 for those. The tank asked me to join his SG after we got done. Said he'd kick someone to make room. I guess TA fighting +3's didn't feel all that bad to him.
I also teamed with a Rad/ on some of my level missions. Everyone was my level or lower doing my Invinc missions (once I take a Sk'd blaster through a mission where they survive +4's, they insist on doing more...lol). Consistently...PGA and FA hit more mobs than RI and EF. RI has a fairly big radius, but EF seems really small for some reason.
After asking the Ice/Storm controller not to use Gale...and asking the En blaster to use ET against the walll...and not down the hall....the anchors were getting a better spread...and a few times were able to get all the mobs in the spawn. But this was like 1 out 10 they got everyone. Many ..many times...there were mobs completely out of the effect of either RI, EF, or both. Out of 10 mobs...maybe 1 or 2 didn't have FA on them...and this is +2's.
PGA definitely affects more mobs than EF...no quesetion about it. But...after the inital use, I tend not to reuse PGA...unless there are above a certain number of mobs or a purple boss has a lot of hit points left. Once the Rad joined us...there was no point in recasting it. So while I definitely affected more mobs initially, EF generally lasted longer ...even if it only affected one or two of the remaining five mobs.
If my life depended on it...I cant say who did more overall debuffing. There were several times where the anchor got knocked far away from the spawn...debuffing only one mob. I'll have to give the advantage to RI over FA in this mission for straight debuffing because we were fighting Fir Bolg and Tuatha which tended to move slowly. And RI is a better debuff, so it is more effective on those under it. We also had a Ice/Storm with Snowstorm and Ice slick and FR. I also used GA from time to time, so that kept them in a smaller area.
That having been said...there is no way to account for all the several times I used FA to stop an adjacent spawn from aggroing. Typically we'd have two spawns close together and then half a mile to the next two spawns.
Acid arrow on the boss....is a heck of a debuff when combined with DA. When I used Oil Slick...I'm sure I pulled ahead; I was mitigating more damage...and causing far more damage. Unfortuantely, OS did not light consistently. However, it was cool when Whirling Hands from the tanker lit it.
Due to the nature of the mission...and the long distances between spawns....Oil Slick was ready every spawn but when we had three back to back. The reality is that I didn't need it but a few times....and when I did use it...it was more just for show than necessity.
The fact is, most of the missions I do...I don't need to use all the debuffs I have. I find that PGA, FA, and DA, are more than enough help for any well lead team fighting +2's. Even though I find OS is generally available every spawn or nearly every spawn when teams move without any pausing, it's just not needed. Same with Glue Arrow. When the +3's come out..or there is a Boss...OS comes out and it is extremely effective. With Acid Arrow...the bosses don't last very long...and this is with blasters/scrappers that are fighting +3's bosses.
I've done invinc missions now since level 25, with and without every trio and quartet the game can offer. Not once have I found TA lacking. And this is with a 1/3 of my SO's either stale or defunct since 28.
Do players get defeated? Yup, especially when they play stupid. But the majority of these defeats happen with another defender on the team. So when I hear people say TA isn't as good as other defenders...well, I'm standing next to one of those "other" defenderse and they are as powerless as I am when people get cocky or unlucky.
As an aside, I've noticed that that when people play with my TA...they generally play within themselves. As soon as we add anyone with heals...people start getting sloppy and we have more defeats. Mainly you get people taking alphas without warning the team or others have had a chance to set up.
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Against +5's and +6's...I wasn't hitting very many. One small Insight and I hit like 90% on one spawn...but that's anecdotal.
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Against +5s and especially +6s, accuracy is not terribly important because debuffs by then are either marginal (+5 = 30% effective) or nearly absent (+6 = 15% effective). I'm not sure flash arrow is even worth the activation time at +6 (for that matter, even RI and EF with their combined debuffs are borderline at +6).
Debuffers are basically along for the ride at +6: they're essentially being PLed because of the sudden drop in effectiveness due to the purple patch between +5 and +6. Buffers, of course, are still effective because of how buffs work (for the most part).
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The tank asked me to join his SG after we got done. Said he'd kick someone to make room.
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I wouldn't let it go to your head: these days all it takes for me to get this sort of attention is shoot at the right thing at the right time and not wipe the team. There was a time when that was the expected skill level; now the expected average skill level is "I'll pull (with fireball)."
Can a level 36 energy blaster and a SKed TA/A take out two 38 PPs simultaneously? Until today, I would have said probably not. Now, I know its possible with a good blaster: but I still think on average the answer is still "probably not." I wouldn't hold it up as proof of how fantastic the set is, at any rate (why not? lots of reasons: for one thing I'm thinking practically everything else I've ever played would have made the fight go faster - even my main, an en/en blaster).
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I wouldn't let it go to your head:
[/ QUOTE ] It's not an ego thing...it's a counter-anecdote to all these claims about people getting kicked from teams because they are Trick Arrow.
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days all it takes for me to get this sort of attention is shoot at the right thing at the right time and not wipe the team
[/ QUOTE ] Considering all the players that cause team wipes are invariably in an SG...I'd have to disagree.
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now the expected average skill level is "I'll pull (with fireball)."
[/ QUOTE ] True...I see a lot of stupid, stupid, things. Like the lvl 27 Controller who, after I made the entire team wait for the afk Inv tank to start the aggro, after I told them we were waiting for him to take the alpha, insisted on pulling the trigger as the tank was running in. Guess what happened....two tree stumps later, that controller was eating cave moss. And that was the team with the Rad/.
Or the lvl 31 scrapper that was on that lvl 34 tanker team (forget to mentiont that, that and the emp was a controller) who wasn't SK'd, and insisted on following the 34 tanker around as he herded. She must have died four times in that mission. I looked at her DM/Regen build...no Recon...No DP...no IH. At least she had Integration...can't tell you how many 20's toons I see without status protection. I'm all for build diversity, but know your limits.
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I've ever played would have made the fight go faster - even my main, an en/en blaster
[/ QUOTE ] I'll have to disagree with that. Acid Arrow slotted with debuffs on top of DA, is pretty good stacking -res. No to mention reducing the defense on both PP's if they stay together. I also use Entangle to bring the boss out of the air and make them put a foot in the Glue or the Oil. I don't think Dark or Storm would make the fight go faster...safer...yes...faster...no.
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I don't think Dark or Storm would make the fight go faster...safer...yes...faster...no.
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Sure it would. My Stormy could perma-KB them so they never get the opportunity to use MoG/Unstoppable/Elude.
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It's not an ego thing...it's a counter-anecdote to all these claims about people getting kicked from teams because they are Trick Arrow.
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It really isn't a counter to anything. If you check you'll find that teams that have played with good TA defenders (IE great defender players in general) don't kick them. In the instances where a TA defender is kicked it is usually at the begining before they have even given the TA defender a chance.
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Acid Arrow slotted with debuffs on top of DA, is pretty good stacking -res.
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It is pretty average for a set that has to use two powers to get more than a 30% -res. -40% is nothing to scoff at except when it is in a very small area. Then I scoff at it. Especially when it misses when you really need it to hit simply because there will be a time where it must miss. It would really be nice if they removed the nerf from Acid Arrow, it would really help the set shine as a debuffing set.
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I do see where you felt like your debuffs made a diff against +5's. I felt that way too...but that's just how I felt. No way to know if he really could have survived without a -5 lvl def putting down PGA. I suppose he would have had to use an extra inspiration or two.
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Well, PGA and Glue and Oil Slick all help reduce incomming damage, not just PGA. PGA just debuffs their actual damage when they connect. Glue debuffing their recharge and Oil Slick knocking them down also make the damage come at a slower rate, even at +5-6.
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I also teamed with a Rad/ on some of my level missions. Everyone was my level or lower doing my Invinc missions (once I take a Sk'd blaster through a mission where they survive +4's, they insist on doing more...lol). Consistently...PGA and FA hit more mobs than RI and EF. RI has a fairly big radius, but EF seems really small for some reason.
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Just as a side note, my real complaint with FA in that instance was that even the -perception is worthless because of the to-hit roll. I had already noted that the -acc was not doing a damn thing at that level. Doesn't really matter what the -acc numbers are at that point.
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After asking the Ice/Storm controller not to use Gale...and asking the En blaster to use ET against the walll...and not down the hall....the anchors were getting a better spread...and a few times were able to get all the mobs in the spawn. But this was like 1 out 10 they got everyone. Many ..many times...there were mobs completely out of the effect of either RI, EF, or both. Out of 10 mobs...maybe 1 or 2 didn't have FA on them...and this is +2's.
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But every single time FA is on all of them the -acc is doing almost NOTHING to help stop damage come in. An even level mission on invincible spawn of 16 with only 8 in the effect of RI is still far superior to a spawn of 16 with all 16 that have FA on them. The total damage comming in to the team is less with RI. I really don't get where you think that FA is doing ANYTHING to debuff their accuracy. I've had it 5 slotted for -acc pre-ED and not floored even level mobs accuracy. RI does that easily NOW, post-ED. I really think you are fooling yourself with the effectiveness of FA.
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PGA definitely affects more mobs than EF...no quesetion about it. But...after the inital use, I tend not to reuse PGA...unless there are above a certain number of mobs or a purple boss has a lot of hit points left. Once the Rad joined us...there was no point in recasting it. So while I definitely affected more mobs initially, EF generally lasted longer ...even if it only affected one or two of the remaining five mobs.
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As I said before, PGA is one of the few powers that any of us have a problem with. THe only real complaint before was that the Sleep component was worthless and as we know now it was a bug. I really don't recall any complaints from anyone about PGA outside of the Sleep aspect that has now been addressed.
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If my life depended on it...I cant say who did more overall debuffing. There were several times where the anchor got knocked far away from the spawn...debuffing only one mob. I'll have to give the advantage to RI over FA in this mission for straight debuffing because we were fighting Fir Bolg and Tuatha which tended to move slowly. And RI is a better debuff, so it is more effective on those under it. We also had a Ice/Storm with Snowstorm and Ice slick and FR. I also used GA from time to time, so that kept them in a smaller area.
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Again with the FA to RI comparison. RI can FLOOR even level minion accuracy post-ED. FA couldn't pre-ED 6 slotted with 5 -acc SO's so I really don't know what you think FA is doing in comparison to RI in the -acc arena. And if your Rad/* defender doesn't know well enough to drop their toggles if the mob runs or gets knocked out so far that it becomes a problem so they can re-apply RI... I don't know what to tell you. Sounds more like a skill problem.
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That having been said...there is no way to account for all the several times I used FA to stop an adjacent spawn from aggroing. Typically we'd have two spawns close together and then half a mile to the next two spawns.
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Yeah, this is it's best use and is the only reason I still have it. But it ALWAYS requires multiple applications so unless your group is VERY patient it's usefulness as -perception is even limited. Which get's back to my original point that the one really useful thing about FA is less than usefull because of the to-hit check. To have Smoke be identical in every way but a to-hit check is just dumb to me, especially when FA is a Defender primary in a set that ONLY debuffs. A controller power outdebuffing a defender power simply based on the fact that it has a to-hit roll just makes no sense to me.
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Acid arrow on the boss....is a heck of a debuff when combined with DA. When I used Oil Slick...I'm sure I pulled ahead; I was mitigating more damage...and causing far more damage. Unfortuantely, OS did not light consistently. However, it was cool when Whirling Hands from the tanker lit it.
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My personal fav is to team with a fire tank. Makes my job easy.
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Due to the nature of the mission...and the long distances between spawns....Oil Slick was ready every spawn but when we had three back to back. The reality is that I didn't need it but a few times....and when I did use it...it was more just for show than necessity.
The fact is, most of the missions I do...I don't need to use all the debuffs I have. I find that PGA, FA, and DA, are more than enough help for any well lead team fighting +2's. Even though I find OS is generally available every spawn or nearly every spawn when teams move without any pausing, it's just not needed. Same with Glue Arrow. When the +3's come out..or there is a Boss...OS comes out and it is extremely effective. With Acid Arrow...the bosses don't last very long...and this is with blasters/scrappers that are fighting +3's bosses.
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I've found this to be true for me too actually. I don't always NEED all my debuffs (but then you can say that about any defender set). Which is why my calls for buffs aren't that drastic. All I want as far as the recharges go is the timers to, in effect, give back the pre-ED recharge times. In NO WAY was I overpowered back then. I was just plain more useful in situations where now I am less so.
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I've done invinc missions now since level 25, with and without every trio and quartet the game can offer. Not once have I found TA lacking. And this is with a 1/3 of my SO's either stale or defunct since 28.
Do players get defeated? Yup, especially when they play stupid. But the majority of these defeats happen with another defender on the team. So when I hear people say TA isn't as good as other defenders...well, I'm standing next to one of those "other" defenderse and they are as powerless as I am when people get cocky or unlucky.
As an aside, I've noticed that that when people play with my TA...they generally play within themselves. As soon as we add anyone with heals...people start getting sloppy and we have more defeats. Mainly you get people taking alphas without warning the team or others have had a chance to set up.
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Well, perception is reality. If that's what you perceive, then kudos to you. I've seen the set pre-ED and know, just based on that, how the set can be better than it is now in more situations. They are gonna fix PGA's sleep component as well which, while not the most usefull of buffs, is still a buff and will add to the overall effectiveness of the set. You may not see it lacking, but I HAVE SEEN it lacking because I've seen it in a more powerful, but not overpowered state. So go ahead and belive what you will, but don't knock us for trying to make it better. Especially with your incredibly lame accusations of our lack of skill with the set.
If they gave FA a larger debuff, do youthink it would break the set? Or if they left the debuff alone and made it auto-hit? Of no to either of those then why the hell are you arguing?
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While FA on it's own isn't "awesome" agianst +3's, it stacks with other debuffs (which is a reference to debuffs and +def of others on your team, since you still didn't grok).
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Whatever grok means...go back a few posts when this was brought up the first time. Just about EVERY power stacks with others of the same type. We don't get any other -ACC powers, so FA is useless as a fully slotted debuff....in a set that has no heal. So, since we cant heal (without an interuptable powerpool), it's primary function should be to debuff ACC so we don't need to. But again, I'm not saying it needs to be an uber debuff, but give us something comparable to other sets...who HAVE heals.
You can't honestly tell me that you notice ANY difference aside from -perception when you FA a mob.
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Whatever grok means
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I'll clue you in since Mieux will probably not do so. The word "grok" is associated with a novel written by Robert A. Heinlein called "Stranger in a Strange Land". The un-edited version of this book is a very good read. You can find it both edited and un-edited and if you enjoy reading decent sci-fi with philosophy combined with theology then you'll enjoy the book.
To get back to the word "grok" think of it as understanding something completely. Completely.
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Nice...but again, personal attacks are still not answering how FA is so awesome.
[/ QUOTE ] First off, I said it was "great" I didn't say it was "awesome."
Second, the answer is fairly obvious.
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Third off the answer is NOT as obvious as you claim. Enlighten us, describe what about a very low -acc that you can't stack with anything else you have and misses alot is so good. -Perception is ok, but once again it many times takes 6 or 7 arrows to debuff an entire group.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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I've ever played would have made the fight go faster - even my main, an en/en blaster
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I'll have to disagree with that. Acid Arrow slotted with debuffs on top of DA, is pretty good stacking -res. No to mention reducing the defense on both PP's if they stay together. I also use Entangle to bring the boss out of the air and make them put a foot in the Glue or the Oil. I don't think Dark or Storm would make the fight go faster...safer...yes...faster...no.
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Don't have oil slick, so that isn't quite an option for me yet. The stacking res helps, but I do not believe it makes up for the actual lack of damage relative to a damage dealer in this case: my blasters and scrappers are likely to have dumped more damage over time without the res debuffs than one blaster and an archery defender with them. In a team larger than a duo, the res debuffs would have been a greater factor than simply adding more damage: trio and higher is about the break even point.
Its hard to say with dark; I believe it would have gone faster, but I'll concede that one might more properly be called a draw. You're probably right on storm, except storm is one of the very few sets I have yet to play to any significant level, so it wasn't one of the options I was considering in that statement.
Two squishies taking on two paragon protectors should not try to keep them together, by the way, unless they are lucked out or have tremendous accuracy debuffing, and even then its tricky. The PPs can often two-shot you, so keeping them together increases the risk of a rapid 2-shot kill too fast for you to pop respites. Your best bet is to split them up, but still concentrate all your damage and resistance debuffing on one, to get the first quick kill. If you let them go two on one on you, the results are less favorable. Fortunately, claws PPs do let you get away with this if you are careful.
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Two squishies taking on two paragon protectors should not try to keep them together, by the way, unless they are lucked out or have tremendous accuracy debuffing, and even then its tricky. The PPs can often two-shot you, so keeping them together increases the risk of a rapid 2-shot kill too fast for you to pop respites. Your best bet is to split them up, but still concentrate all your damage and resistance debuffing on one, to get the first quick kill. If you let them go two on one on you, the results are less favorable. Fortunately, claws PPs do let you get away with this if you are careful.
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Buwahaha, my Stormy has tanked 3 at once before, and two of the bastards were the Energy/Regen ones 
Silly people not having played Storm Summoning!
It's hard as hell soloing the Elite Bosses that used to be Arch Villains though, their mez immunity renders my KB ineffectual. Bile has sent me packing FOUR times, three of which weren't even close .
Sgt Liberty - 50 Martial Arts / Super Reflexes
Verdigris Eagle - 50 Archery / Energy Manipulation
Stormeye - 50 Storm Summoning / Electric Blast
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Two squishies taking on two paragon protectors should not try to keep them together, by the way, unless they are lucked out or have tremendous accuracy debuffing, and even then its tricky. The PPs can often two-shot you, so keeping them together increases the risk of a rapid 2-shot kill too fast for you to pop respites. Your best bet is to split them up, but still concentrate all your damage and resistance debuffing on one, to get the first quick kill. If you let them go two on one on you, the results are less favorable. Fortunately, claws PPs do let you get away with this if you are careful.
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Buwahaha, my Stormy has tanked 3 at once before, and two of the bastards were the Energy/Regen ones
Silly people not having played Storm Summoning!
It's hard as hell soloing the Elite Bosses that used to be Arch Villains though, their mez immunity renders my KB ineffectual. Bile has sent me packing FOUR times, three of which weren't even close .
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Eventually, I intend to play everything with major knockback to 50, just to say I did. Energy, illusion, MA; knockback was the first thing that I really liked about playing CoH. I'd have a high level storm by now if a little thing called City of Villains didn't come out and distract me.
Which also means at some point, I will need to get that explosive arrow also 
(yes, I did have whirlwind at one point: what else do you take at level 49 before the epic pools came out?)
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Explosive Arrow is Da Bomb (pun intended )
If you need edumacation on Storm though, every Storm Defender player is here on the boards, all 15 of us
Nothing really matches the raw KB power of Hurricane + Gale + Tornado. And no Defender plays even remotely similarly.
My biggest problem with PPs has been the Spines/SR ones, because the cheeky fellows use Impale to Immobilize me, then keep cycling Throw Spines and Impale (again 
).
Sgt Liberty - 50 Martial Arts / Super Reflexes
Verdigris Eagle - 50 Archery / Energy Manipulation
Stormeye - 50 Storm Summoning / Electric Blast
Don't forget Freezing Rain for the extra knockdown goodness.
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Don't forget Freezing Rain for the extra knockdown goodness.
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Yeah, but if you're using Tornado, Gale, and Hurricane, chances are they won't be there long enough to matter, . Unless you've got everyone pinned in the Storm of the Century occuring inside the 4th floor of your friendly neighborhood Crey Laboratory buwahahahaa.
Sgt Liberty - 50 Martial Arts / Super Reflexes
Verdigris Eagle - 50 Archery / Energy Manipulation
Stormeye - 50 Storm Summoning / Electric Blast
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Sure it would. My Stormy could perma-KB them so they never get the opportunity to use MoG/Unstoppable/Elude.
[/ QUOTE ] I've yet to see a Storm pull that off. I have seen knockdown keep them from crisis-mode long enough for team to punk them. What I do see is squishies getting knocked back by ET and their blasts....make something like Hurricane harder to apply conintuously. PP's are also frequently enountered on platforms where they fly off and a Storm couldn't get to them.
If you say you've done it, I'm inclined to believe you, but I'm skeptical to the average success rate of this.
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Second, the answer is fairly obvious.
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But its not. With an 8% debuff, you're getting hit 9 times out of 10. For a debuff set that has no heal, there should be SOME tangible damage mitigation. I'd be happy with a long recharge, and a larger (20%?) debuff...right now it's only useful as a -perception power.