Story in a nutshell:
Trick Arrow used to have 4 Targeted AoE powers. That made using the set incredibly difficult (although, it was pretty cool.) During the test period, we decided to change 2 powers to standard AoE attacks. Poison Gas Arrow was one of them.
Originally, Poison Gas Arrow would leave a large pool of gas that lasted almost a minute. Any critter entering the gas cloud would be debuffed and a small chance of being put to sleep every quarter of a second. When we changed it to a normal AoE, though, the chance to sleep was left at it's original level. While that was fine for a power activating 4 times a second, for a one shot chance, it was patheticly (sp?) low.
So, I increased the sleep chance to a 'better' value. It's still not 100% of the time, but you should get between 50% and 66% of minions when it lands.
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So, I increased the sleep chance to a 'better' value. It's still not 100% of the time, but you should get between 50% and 66% of minions when it lands.
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Impressive chance, but Sleep is still a terrible mitigator against enemies you're fighting.
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Thanks for the explanation as well as the change, Castle. That will make it a much better power, and the history explains why such a ridiculously low chance to cause sleep was included in the first place.
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Trick Arrow used to have 4 Targeted AoE powers.
[/ QUOTE ] ...Why not give us the option of doing both Targeted AoE and Location AoE?
There are many times when I'd like to lay down a Glue Arrow in a choke point and having to wait until a target is on that spot is less than ideal. In addition, the activation time may result in timing issues with where the patch gets laid down. I'd even argue letting TA target friendly units except that thematically, it would mean that your friends get hit with the debuffs in the case of Glue and Poison (though it is kind of a stretch that there is no collateral damage in the game...tho I completely understand why).
Btw, your discourse on the subject is greatly appreciated. And let me extend my thanks to those who have given you the authorization to post so freely.
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Story in a nutshell:
Trick Arrow used to have 4 Targeted AoE powers. That made using the set incredibly difficult (although, it was pretty cool.) During the test period, we decided to change 2 powers to standard AoE attacks. Poison Gas Arrow was one of them.
Originally, Poison Gas Arrow would leave a large pool of gas that lasted almost a minute. Any critter entering the gas cloud would be debuffed and a small chance of being put to sleep every quarter of a second. When we changed it to a normal AoE, though, the chance to sleep was left at it's original level. While that was fine for a power activating 4 times a second, for a one shot chance, it was patheticly (sp?) low.
So, I increased the sleep chance to a 'better' value. It's still not 100% of the time, but you should get between 50% and 66% of minions when it lands.
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But wouldn't it seem that in a set with as many AoEs that would wakeup all the targets as trick arrow that a AoE sleep would be lacking in synergy. If you only put half the enemies to sleep you'd stll want to apply debuffs to the other half but all of your debuffs except flash arrow would wake up everyone you just put to sleep.
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all of your debuffs except flash arrow would wake up everyone you just put to sleep.
[/ QUOTE ] You have to damage an opponent to wake them from sleep. Disruption and Glue Arrow shouldn't wake them. I don't think Oil would wake unless it was ignited...but I dont' have this.
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all of your debuffs except flash arrow would wake up everyone you just put to sleep.
[/ QUOTE ] You have to damage an opponent to wake them from sleep. Disruption and Glue Arrow shouldn't wake them. I don't think Oil would wake unless it was ignited...but I dont' have this.
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Really? well.. nm then. Everything but non aggroing things used to wakeup sleepers and I stopping playing for quite a while and haven't seen a person with alot of using AoE sleep around an AoE debuffer since i got back.
Before I stopping playing it was really annoying how everything even a darkest night anchor would wake everyone up.
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You have to damage an opponent to wake them from sleep. Disruption and Glue Arrow shouldn't wake them. I don't think Oil would wake unless it was ignited...but I dont' have this.
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Knockdown/knockback/repel will break sleeps, and I don't believe sleeps cause immunity to Oil Slick's knockdown effect. Damage, of course, will. Pure debuff powers, however, will not. It's hard to say where Oil Slick stands.
That said, this is a MAJOR buff to the power. While I'll be the first to complain that sleeps break fast and often, it gives an easy way to reduce damage from adds, and another way to actually slot the power. In addition, even if the sleep does break, it's still damage mitigation.
And that said, why on earth is the one of the first reported buffs to Trick Arrow something Controllers will benefit more from than Defenders?
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Story in a nutshell:
Trick Arrow used to have 4 Targeted AoE powers. That made using the set incredibly difficult (although, it was pretty cool.) During the test period, we decided to change 2 powers to standard AoE attacks. Poison Gas Arrow was one of them.
Originally, Poison Gas Arrow would leave a large pool of gas that lasted almost a minute. Any critter entering the gas cloud would be debuffed and a small chance of being put to sleep every quarter of a second. When we changed it to a normal AoE, though, the chance to sleep was left at it's original level. While that was fine for a power activating 4 times a second, for a one shot chance, it was patheticly (sp?) low.
So, I increased the sleep chance to a 'better' value. It's still not 100% of the time, but you should get between 50% and 66% of minions when it lands.
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Perhaps you could change it to a 50% pulse hold? That might be a little overpowered, but it is reminiscent of Volcanic Gasses, and would go a long way towards buffing the set. PGA + EMP Arrow! Held bosses!
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
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Perhaps you could change it to a 50% pulse hold? That might be a little overpowered, but it is reminiscent of Volcanic Gasses, and would go a long way towards buffing the set. PGA + EMP Arrow! Held bosses!
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You know they'd say that holding is a controllers job...but I think it would be fine...hell, masterminds get an AoE type hold (the puke power that looks like poison gas) and they arnt dominators....but an AoE hold that early in the set?...hmmm
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Perhaps you could change it to a 50% pulse hold? That might be a little overpowered, but it is reminiscent of Volcanic Gasses, and would go a long way towards buffing the set. PGA + EMP Arrow! Held bosses!
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You know they'd say that holding is a controllers job...but I think it would be fine...hell, masterminds get an AoE type hold (the puke power that looks like poison gas) and they arnt dominators....but an AoE hold that early in the set?...hmmm
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With the rest of the set, it would really be pretty balanced.
For controllers, they get more holds, letting them do their job (sterotyping! Sorry!) better, and letting the whole of Trick Arrow be closer in line, if not in line, with the rest of the sets.
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Story in a nutshell:
Trick Arrow used to have 4 Targeted AoE powers. That made using the set incredibly difficult (although, it was pretty cool.) During the test period, we decided to change 2 powers to standard AoE attacks. Poison Gas Arrow was one of them.
Originally, Poison Gas Arrow would leave a large pool of gas that lasted almost a minute. Any critter entering the gas cloud would be debuffed and a small chance of being put to sleep every quarter of a second. When we changed it to a normal AoE, though, the chance to sleep was left at it's original level. While that was fine for a power activating 4 times a second, for a one shot chance, it was patheticly (sp?) low.
So, I increased the sleep chance to a 'better' value. It's still not 100% of the time, but you should get between 50% and 66% of minions when it lands.
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I assume you mean TA originally had four Location AoEs; flash, glue, and PGA are targetted AoEs now.
That explains a lot, actually. But I'd prefer the original Location AoE version: a sleep cloud is a bit more interesting, because it synergizes with glue arrow: the slow can keep them in the cloud longer, which means even if awakened, there's still a chance to resleep.
The set is already difficult: trick arrow already has either constant weapon redraws, or the long activation times of archery (which is a potentially worse penalty), and the archery delay already makes arrows sometimes go to targets after they've moved from the spot we wanted to target.
I'd go so far as to say that while Location AoE's require a different skill set, it would actually be easier for me to get maximum effectiveness out of TA if all my debuffs were location AoEs, since given the activation times of the arrow shots, its more likely I can place the arrow exactly where I want with a location AoE than a targetted AoE (targets move, and targets sometimes die and reset queued shots before they can activate, so queueing shots is unreliable anyway), and I can also partially defer TA activation times by dropping location patches and having groups pull into them (or I could pull into them myself when solo).
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Problem is that you'd end up with a Controller SECONDARY with three seperate hold powers. That's a *lot* to have in one place..
Then....should they just take away Trick Arrow from Controllers, if it's going to be that hard to buff TA for Defenders, while having to worry about making it too good for Controllers? It's the same reason why Controllers don't have Dark Miasma, right?
Save the drama for yo' mama.
I'd like to see Sleep have this little change added to it...
If an enemy is woken from a Sleep power by being attacked BEFORE the sleep would have naturally worn off than for the duration that the sleep would have lasted the enemy takes a accuracy debuff.
This would make Sleep a bit more attractive. Besides it takes awhile to rub the sleep from your eyes in the morning. 
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Story in a nutshell:
Trick Arrow used to have 4 Targeted AoE powers. That made using the set incredibly difficult (although, it was pretty cool.) During the test period, we decided to change 2 powers to standard AoE attacks. Poison Gas Arrow was one of them.
Originally, Poison Gas Arrow would leave a large pool of gas that lasted almost a minute. Any critter entering the gas cloud would be debuffed and a small chance of being put to sleep every quarter of a second. When we changed it to a normal AoE, though, the chance to sleep was left at it's original level. While that was fine for a power activating 4 times a second, for a one shot chance, it was patheticly (sp?) low.
So, I increased the sleep chance to a 'better' value. It's still not 100% of the time, but you should get between 50% and 66% of minions when it lands.
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I assume you mean TA originally had four Location AoEs; flash, glue, and PGA are targetted AoEs now.
That explains a lot, actually. But I'd prefer the original Location AoE version: a sleep cloud is a bit more interesting, because it synergizes with glue arrow: the slow can keep them in the cloud longer, which means even if awakened, there's still a chance to resleep.
The set is already difficult: trick arrow already has either constant weapon redraws, or the long activation times of archery (which is a potentially worse penalty), and the archery delay already makes arrows sometimes go to targets after they've moved from the spot we wanted to target.
I'd go so far as to say that while Location AoE's require a different skill set, it would actually be easier for me to get maximum effectiveness out of TA if all my debuffs were location AoEs, since given the activation times of the arrow shots, its more likely I can place the arrow exactly where I want with a location AoE than a targetted AoE (targets move, and targets sometimes die and reset queued shots before they can activate, so queueing shots is unreliable anyway), and I can also partially defer TA activation times by dropping location patches and having groups pull into them (or I could pull into them myself when solo).
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After PvPing with TA, I really like that they chaged PGA to a targeted AoE. Believe me when I say that it makes debuffing in PvP much easier. I see what your saying but I can definately see why they changed it. Both Glue and PGA are good powers to have as targeted AoEs although I wish glue would target flyers.
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Trick Arrow has other tricks aside from Debuffing too.
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Not in comparision to other defender sets. A immoblize, a single target hold, and a AoE hold? Blah!
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An AoE hold isn't too shabby. It's a long recharge, yeah, but decent duration, doesn't drain your endurance like EM Pulse, and has other decent secondary effects as well.
Don't forget Oil Slick Arrow, which gives Trick Arrow the best damage in a Primary of any defender. Combined with Disruption and Acid Arrows, Trick Arrow Defenders should be doing the most damage of any defs, and boosting team damage by the largest amount.
Does anyone else wish that Poison Gas Arrow was a pulsing AoE stackable debuff instead of a Sleep? Like it's been mentioned, we don't need yet another power at which Controllers are better. And having a damage debuff that pulses and stacks to impressive levels might actually give us another signature power aside from the problematic Oil Slick Arrow.
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Story in a nutshell:
Trick Arrow used to have 4 Targeted AoE powers. That made using the set incredibly difficult (although, it was pretty cool.) During the test period, we decided to change 2 powers to standard AoE attacks. Poison Gas Arrow was one of them.
Originally, Poison Gas Arrow would leave a large pool of gas that lasted almost a minute. Any critter entering the gas cloud would be debuffed and a small chance of being put to sleep every quarter of a second. When we changed it to a normal AoE, though, the chance to sleep was left at it's original level. While that was fine for a power activating 4 times a second, for a one shot chance, it was patheticly (sp?) low.
So, I increased the sleep chance to a 'better' value. It's still not 100% of the time, but you should get between 50% and 66% of minions when it lands.
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What percentage chance will MMs have? I ask because FF has a pretty large hole in it in regards to sleep and I would find it really scary if MMs start busting through FF defenders and sleeping them before killing them.
Granted, my TA defender is going to love this change in PvP. Flury Flechette may not like it so much 
I smell a re-match.
Wow, having four ground targetted AoEs would be awesome. I want that Trick Arrow set.
Has anybody had problems igniting thier Oil Slick in the V-Day missions? It's comes up with a blue square around it, and gives me "invalid target." It still worked fine out on the street, although I haven't tried it on a regular mission.
Arc 180901: Flight of the Dreadnought
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After PvPing with TA, I really like that they chaged PGA to a targeted AoE
[/ QUOTE ]Very good point. When I first read Castle's post, I had Arcana's reaction. Then I realized that sometimes it's hard to find a spot to locate it...like if the target is flying, or in situations where mobs at are various levels. I've seen DA get stuck on some wall or ledge and not affect anyone. That's why I'd like the power to be able to do both...including the use of friendly's for a drop point. Of course I'm probably asking for something the tech can't support.
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After PvPing with TA, I really like that they chaged PGA to a targeted AoE
[/ QUOTE ]Very good point. When I first read Castle's post, I had Arcana's reaction. Then I realized that sometimes it's hard to find a spot to locate it...like if the target is flying, or in situations where mobs at are various levels. I've seen DA get stuck on some wall or ledge and not affect anyone. That's why I'd like the power to be able to do both...including the use of friendly's for a drop point. Of course I'm probably asking for something the tech can't support.
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Since I like to stay pretty far away from battles, I like to put DA in mid-air. It has more shock and awe factor in PvP as well as people ask try and figure out what power was just used.
The important thing though is that it covers as much area as possible and even sometimes keeps flying mobs in it's AoE. Just a little something I picked up to help anyone get a bit more out of their TA defender.
I would love to know how you guys are slotting Flash arrow. I have level 13 TA/archery Defender Falcon Archer and his -ACC on Flash is pathetic. I dont want to be a controller, but thank goodness PGA will now keep me from getting gang-rapped.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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Don't forget Oil Slick Arrow, which gives Trick Arrow the best damage in a Primary of any defender.
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I believe Storm still holds this title. Oil Slick isn't up nearly enough to compete with Lightning Storm, and doesn't always ignite (even if you manage to not miss the Oil Slick target). True, Oil Slick is area effect, but my stormie almost always has things pinned so tightly that Lightning Storm is whomping two or three per shot with respectable numbers.
When it's up and it ignites, yeah, it's definitely nice.
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I was one of the only Defenders in the area and I ended up being held and AS'ed the whole night.
[/ QUOTE ] Except for FF and Storm, being the only defender in swarm of stalkers or just villians is certain death. Defenders are generally easy to kill and have no massive counter attack to deter opportunists. It's amazing to see how stalkers will just chase me all over Siren's Call just waiting for me to stop.