Not once, not twice, but three times...
By
008Zulu,
Posted on: 2006-01-10 16:26 in Developers' Corner
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This means no suppression either, right? That would incur most of the same problems the original nerf brought, so I hope we're sticking with stealth as-is.
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If you read Statesman's comment on it, yes supression of stealth will be coming in a future patch. They will be pulling the current method so they can code supression in.
Its only being pulled because otherwise idiots would use group and castable invisibility abilities to grief and harass players.
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Hate to spoil the fun but you do realise those who predicted abait and switch were...right
The devs AI is as predictable as a vazalok cadaver without a mortie
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So...
Your not happy with the Dev's because they never listen to the playerbase, however, anything thats done that appears to be listening to the playerbase is all really part of some bait and switch?
Way to go, you've got it set up so that no matter what the Dev's do, its the wrong decision.
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Isn't that the truth.
I've been saying this for a very long time: No matter what the Devs do, someone is going to complain about it.
NCIS: Best gorram show in the 'verse.
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Just want to find something out (in a break in the action online...) and if I've missed someone asking....
Will this affect *current* missions? I've had Giovanni and another Chimaera on my 50 for a while now, and my PB never seems to be able to get a team for the Envoy... I'd LOVE to be able to just wait a little longer and progress past them after a good fight.
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Well, seeing as that the Boss-to-E/Lt is simular and is dymanic, I don't see this working any other way.
NCIS: Best gorram show in the 'verse.
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AND now...we're changing the way Archvillains spawn.
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THANK YOU!
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- Will defeating said Praetorians as Elite Bosses grant the relevant Badge?
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The Badges for Boss that are in the game now work off the Boss-to-E/Lt version of Bosses, sooo ...
My guess would be they still count. 
NCIS: Best gorram show in the 'verse.
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WOW!! OMG!!! YOUARETEHBEST!!!
PvP is still awful compared to the other PvP choices out there(5 million customers=doing something right).
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Umm? I've played the "5 MILLION CUSTOMER" game, and neither the PvE or PvP can compare. Can you transform into a flying squid while your opponent jumps 100m in the air and a third person irradiates you while running 80mph?
No?
Not as good, sorry. 
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Can a mage punch my warrior's armor clean off?
No?
Then CoH's PVP can't be as good, can it?
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Sure it can- It's called toggle dropping. A Tank has their defenses activated, along comes a Stalker/Mage or another AT- proceeds with a AS or a brawl, BAM!! Tank loses their armour/defenses. I don't play WOW so if my parallel is incorrect please tell me.
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Well, in CoH, a blaster can punch the tanker's toggles off. In WoW, a mage cannot punch a warrior's armor off.
Advantage = WoW.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Give me the doooooom posts anyday. These bootlicking marathons just make me ill.
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If I get called a fanboi for this, I'll probably have a heart attack from laughter, as several on this thread will understand.
Having said that:
1) Costumes are personal choice. There are villains who become heroes, heroes who become villains and mercenaries who stand on the razor's edge. Costumes like batman's, spawn's and many others are chosen for their ability to scare the crap out of villains, and some villains, like harlequin, joker, riddler, two-face, mxylplzyx (sp?), and many others are bright, happy things...mainly because their murderous natures are born of insanity.
Costumes SHOULD be as wide-open as possible. No restrictions. Heck, if I want to wear an arachnos uniform as a hero, and be a "traitor" to that villainous organization, I should be able to pursue that concept.
As to the "stealth nerf", I've been upset ever since the defense values took a hit after combat began. If you can't see me, you can't see me. If your perception isn't enough to pierce my invis BEFORE I attack, you're probably going to be too busy stopping the bleeding to notice any "tells" AFTER I attack. You can spray in my general direction, but my defense should be what it was before. Having said that, I am happy to see them rethinking the idea, and waiting until they've considered ALL the ramifications before they implement more. It's a different tack than most of the recent nerfs, and a move in the right direction, in my opinion.
And the AV-->EB implementation restores my faith in the devs desire to make this game friendly to those of us who aren't, by nature, extremely social creatures, who prefer to immerse ourselves in solo adventures and only team up when others "need" us.
Here's my advice: B.F. Skinner and hordes of behaviorists have shown that positive reinforcement has great effect in shaping behavior. Negative reinforcement is effective also. But neither will produce the desired result if you do not apply them at the appropriate times. In order to successfully shape behavior, you must apply negative reinforcement against actions of which you disapprove, and positive reinforcement when the subject BEGINS to take actions that will lead to the behavior you desire.
This is used to train dogs not to crap in the house, as well as to train killer whales to give rides around their pools without eating people. It might not be a bad idea to emulate that method here.
Good job, devs. Now let's get rid of travel suppression, sew the balls back onto the inv/ tankers, and soften the dual blows of I5/ED. We're all hoping for the best.
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Well, in CoH, a blaster can punch the tanker's toggles off. In WoW, a mage cannot punch a warrior's armor off.
Advantage = WoW.
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Funny I read that exact same sentence and concluded the opposite.
Jack if your were a woman I would kiss you full on the lips for this . My scrappers usually do nothing but solo so Arch Villian missions usually get ignored I'm sorry to say. However with this change not only is their the possibility of getting Arch Villians but also the advantage of soloing an Elite Boss which would be great. I take back all the things I said about the developers not listening to us. You are listening and doing great changes like this. For the longest time I thought you hated the solo players. Now I see you're doing all you can to make the game enjoyable to them which I deeply thank you for. Lets hear for Statesmen, HE'S THE BOMB!! (and i've seen you in action on the Statesmens Pal badge mission. OUCH! Remind me not to piss you off 
I'm sorry if this has already been asked how does the archvillian/elite boss change affect badges?
I cool with that. Risk = Reward.
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I'm sorry if this has already been asked how does the archvillian/elite boss change affect badges?
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It has, repeatedly.
Short Answer: The Boss-to-Lt doesn't affect those Badges. The AV-to-EB >>>shouldn't<<< affect those Badges either.
NCIS: Best gorram show in the 'verse.
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Well, in CoH, a blaster can punch the tanker's toggles off. In WoW, a mage cannot punch a warrior's armor off.
Advantage = WoW.
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Funny I read that exact same sentence and concluded the opposite.
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Toggle-dropping is a terrible kludge. I'm sorry if you like it.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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WOW!! OMG!!! YOUARETEHBEST!!!
PvP is still awful compared to the other PvP choices out there(5 million customers=doing something right).
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Umm? I've played the "5 MILLION CUSTOMER" game, and neither the PvE or PvP can compare. Can you transform into a flying squid while your opponent jumps 100m in the air and a third person irradiates you while running 80mph?
No?
Not as good, sorry.
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Can a mage punch my warrior's armor clean off?
No?
Then CoH's PVP can't be as good, can it?
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Sure it can- It's called toggle dropping. A Tank has their defenses activated, along comes a Stalker/Mage or another AT- proceeds with a AS or a brawl, BAM!! Tank loses their armour/defenses. I don't play WOW so if my parallel is incorrect please tell me.
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Well, in CoH, a blaster can punch the tanker's toggles off. In WoW, a mage cannot punch a warrior's armor off.
Advantage = WoW.
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Whoops, I totally thought you were saying WOW was superior because you COULD have a mage punch a warrriors off and I was saying you could do that in CoH because you could do that in the form of toggle dropping.......me am dumba$$.
Sorry.
See, I told you don't play WOW.
"I'm not scared of anyone or anything Angie. Isn't that the way life should be?"
Jack Hawksmoor, The Authority.
In the Dev's defense, stealth-suppression while clicking "glowies" isn't very popular, it at least makes sense.
Even if you're trying to be sneaky, it could be hard to not be notices removing books from a shelf, operating a computer, or things of that nature.
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Well, in CoH, a blaster can punch the tanker's toggles off. In WoW, a mage cannot punch a warrior's armor off.
Advantage = WoW.
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Funny I read that exact same sentence and concluded the opposite.
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Toggle-dropping is a terrible kludge. I'm sorry if you like it.
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Brawl doing it? Absolutely.
I do think there should be a way to "stagger" or weaken pretty much anyone's defenses though, although it shouldn't be something you can truly count on happening. Also, I'd prefer that things of that nature not drop the toggles, just "suppress" them.
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Well, in CoH, a blaster can punch the tanker's toggles off. In WoW, a mage cannot punch a warrior's armor off.
Advantage = WoW.
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Funny I read that exact same sentence and concluded the opposite.
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Toggle-dropping is a terrible kludge. I'm sorry if you like it.
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I'm sorry you'd prefer one AT always beating another, regardless of player ability.
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Whoops, I totally thought you were saying WOW was superior because you COULD have a mage punch a warrriors off and I was saying you could do that in CoH because you could do that in the form of toggle dropping.......me am dumba$$.
Sorry.
See, I told you don't play WOW.
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To be honest, I don't generally favor WoW or CoH. Sometimes I prefer one, sometimes the other. 
They both have different aspects that appeal to me.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Well, in CoH, a blaster can punch the tanker's toggles off. In WoW, a mage cannot punch a warrior's armor off.
Advantage = WoW.
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Funny I read that exact same sentence and concluded the opposite.
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Toggle-dropping is a terrible kludge. I'm sorry if you like it.
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I'm sorry you'd prefer one AT always beating another, regardless of player ability.
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Yes, because pointing out that toggle-dropping is a kludge means exactly the same thing as saying that one AT should always beat another, regardless of player ability.
I'm sorry you feel so crippled in PVP that you need a huge crutch to have a chance of winning*. But, pretend for a moment that you're not so invested in the idea of squishies smearing melee characters across the landscape and imagine a world where the model for balancing PVP is not based on depriving several ATs of their entire primary or secondary powersets.
I think that'd be pretty cool.
* I'm sure the odds of you actually holding this viewpoint are about as likely as me holding the viewpoint that melee should always win. But, hey, what's sauce for the goose and all that, right? Please don't assign arguments you don't like to me just because you can't imagine any situation but the two extremes of "toggle dropping or melee always wins."
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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In the Dev's defense, stealth-suppression while clicking "glowies" isn't very popular, it at least makes sense.
Even if you're trying to be sneaky, it could be hard to not be notices removing books from a shelf, operating a computer, or things of that nature.
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Has the stealth suppression gone through? Or is everybody just speculating? And Brawl does have 33.3% of dropping one toggle, I would like it to be 50% for everybody but I am not bothered by toggle dropping "that much" as long as everybody has the ability to do it. For some it is a guarantee, others- not so much.\
And to Scion.....My tanker is 100% Female, so you can keep those "balls" and give them to someone else who wants 'em.
"I'm not scared of anyone or anything Angie. Isn't that the way life should be?"
Jack Hawksmoor, The Authority.
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Y'know, at first I thought it was kinda sickening the way people are falling all over themselves with joy over this. After all, none of these are really that big of a deal. Yeah, the AV one is great for soloers, but getting AV teams was never really that tough. GOOD AV teams? A bit tougher, I admit, but hardly impossible.
But these are certainly not worth offering one's firstborn for...
But then it occurred to me that maybe this just shows how starved for something positive the players of this game really are. These reactions are not unlike giving food to a starving man, or water to someone that has just walked across a desert. Maybe you should take this as a sign to give some positive changes to this community rather than nerf on top of nerf.
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Agreed.
these things are nice ideas.
BUT
I'd rather see a large scale bug hunt.
lately it seems "known issue" = couldn't give a flying [censored].
running melee missing bug.
tanks dont feel tanky anymore.
most of the hero inheirants feel too tacked on while the villian AT's were built around their inheirants.
Force Fields still garbage.
Passive powers still mostly useless.
Inspirations vastly superior to entire power sets.
these are things just off the top of my head. I'm sure there is plenty of other issues that need to be addressed.
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First...I confirm that we're working on right now (as in pohsyb in the next room) to add CoV costume parts into CoH if you own both games....
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Yay! I want my pirate heroes!
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Then we repeal the hated stealth nerf. The reason why: many well reasoned posts. It's that simple. You guys pointed out the problems.
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My stalker and Illusion controller and Dark defender are much happier now. It's good to know you actually listen to what people say here.
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In order to incentivize larger teams, Positron is going to add a bonus to AV rewards!
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This sounds nice.
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AND now...we're changing the way Archvillains spawn. A ton of forum goers disliked adding so many AV's into missions a while back...so we've come up with a solution. If the team size and mission difficulty are ABOVE a certain level, an Archvillain spawns. Below that, players will face only an Elite Boss. If the mission is set on the first two levels of difficulty, it takes 4 heroes or more to spawn an Arch Villain. On the third level, 3 heroes or more. On the fourth level, 2 heroes. On the highest (Invincible), a solo hero will spawn an AV. Note this works in BOTH City of Heroes and Villains.
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This is long overdue. Thank you!
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In the Dev's defense, stealth-suppression while clicking "glowies" isn't very popular, it at least makes sense.
Even if you're trying to be sneaky, it could be hard to not be notices removing books from a shelf, operating a computer, or things of that nature.
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So tell me how did my 4 1/2 foot tall Stalker carry into the mission 3 55 gallon drum Bombs to place? There are ways to explain or debunk just about everything so trying to apply logic to a fantasy world it pretty much useless.
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AND now...we're changing the way Archvillains spawn. A ton of forum goers disliked adding so many AV's into missions a while back...so we've come up with a solution. If the team size and mission difficulty are ABOVE a certain level, an Archvillain spawns. Below that, players will face only an Elite Boss. If the mission is set on the first two levels of difficulty, it takes 4 heroes or more to spawn an Arch Villain. On the third level, 3 heroes or more. On the fourth level, 2 heroes. On the highest (Invincible), a solo hero will spawn an AV. Note this works in BOTH City of Heroes and Villains.
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This is long overdue. Thank you!
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Seconded, I applaud this change, and although there are plenty of EBs I wouldn't want to solo, finding one other person is a lot easier than finding a whole team.
A question for the devs though:
If you kill the Elite Boss version of a Praetorian, does it count for the dimensional warder badge (and hence the Portal Jockey accolade) ?
I was also wondering whether if you played on heroic/villainous and a boss was downgraded to a lieut, then it still counted for eg. tankbuster (freak tanks) or finder (lost bosses) and whether the code matches the phrasing of the badges or if it should have been a boss (and is a boss monster type) it counts as one.
Mr Minotaur 50 stone/axe tank Freedom
Black Hole Sun 40 dark/thermal corrupter Protector
and 70+ others including 2 more 50s
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
Just want to find something out (in a break in the action online...) and if I've missed someone asking....
Will this affect *current* missions? I've had Giovanni and another Chimaera on my 50 for a while now, and my PB never seems to be able to get a team for the Envoy... I'd LOVE to be able to just wait a little longer and progress past them after a good fight.