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ASSASSIN STRIKE PISSES PEOPLE OFF IN PVP AND THE IMMATURE AND THE WHINERS COMPLAIN ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME
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As a former invuln tanker, I know all about this. And I know that the immature and the whiners are perfectly capable of getting an AT nerfed.
Rational discussions of an AT's strengths and weaknesses simply don't matter. The devs want the monthly dues of the immature and the whiners just as much as they want yours, and the immature and the whiners outnumber you.
Goldbrick 50 inv/ss tank
Other 50s: Power Beam, Rocky Mantle, STORMIE Agent, Matchless, Major Will, Knightmayor, Femstone, Space Maureen, Crimebuster Ako, Dr. Twilight, Doc Champion, American Gold Eagle
*deleted by me*
I think it's a ridiculous idea to supress or eliminate Travel Powers in the PvP zones for any and all AT's. Why? Because that is a very valid tactic when death is hanging over your head, debt or no debt.
Calling people cowards because they opt to run rather than die is just childish and rather pathetic not to mention obnoxious and whiney. Cry to some other player that will actually fall for the reverse psychology trick (I call you a name and you fight me to prove your not said name). If you are doing it in the spirit of PvP while in the game and in the PvP zones then fine but to come here and call those that run cowards (not in the spirit of the game) because you think someone should stand and fight is just plain sorry and ya really need to get over yourself.
If you dont want them to run I suggest you, kill them fast, port them back to you, or use a travel power that will let you keep up. You could also use a power such as a hold, fear, debuff (siphon speed) etc or, just move the hell onto the next target.
If your ego is to hurt and to big to do one of those things then maybe the problem is really you and your playstyle rather than the player that ran?
So heroes are supposed to just fight to the death when it's 3 villians versus 1 hero? Or while they're also juggling fighting a boss? It seems some villians want you to get debt fighting them. Otherwise I wouldn't have been attacked so many times in warburg from behind.
What about those without holds? The scrapper sets are almost completely devoid of things to stop runners. If this wasn't the case we wouldn't be so happy about hitting epic level powers.
I think the main problem with stalkers is this. It's not just about defeating a hero. It's about defeating a hero who's fighting on two fronts. A hero who's fighting a mob? Nope, the stalkers won't target the mob until it's clear and then challenge the hero to a duel. They'll target the hero and use the mobs aggro to help bring them down for debt.
I've seen heroes and villians use this tactic. It's a problem the developers haven't addressed. I mentioned it beforehand but it really is the case, heroes are fighting on two fronts.
They won't add a script that says "If a hero is fighting a npc, and someone attacks the hero, the mob gets mad and attacks the person attacking the hero along with the hero." I know that's a bit complicated, but it shows the flaw of having any npc villians in pvp zones. They're exploited.
Now you could say don't go into the zones, but when people are looking for content, that's not really an option. Stalkers maximize this threat since often you can't see them until it's too late. Even as a dark armor scrapper (with Cloak of Darkness), I have a hard time seeing them occasionally.
The stalker decides to attack me while I'm fighting a boss, for my SG to get prestiage, and currently they're praised for such tactics. We don't have gms in the zone moderating and dealing with such issues. I can't really expect it though. Bear in mind though that heroes still have to fight wars on two fronts, while most villians have been given powers to exploit heroes from the beginning.
You don't see controllers with pets at level 1, but masterminds are allowed to end up with a few by level 6, and can keep summoning them from the safety of a personal force field.
You don't see blasters with a chance to one shot something (at least not with any safety), corrupters have the chance to take down scrappers pretty quickly.
Brutes probably should have been how scrappers developed, or at least partially. Strong defense and offense. Nope, scrappers got their abilities cut to fit into a team, brutes were designed for teams from the start.
And stalkers. Stalkers exploit one shot kills from the beginning. They were made to deal most of their damage from hiding. The hide function is fine, but having a click placate is the worst hero disadvantage ever. They couldn't make it so that the fading stalker gets an boost to defense as they disappear over time right? Nope, that would be fair. Instead a stalker can placate, disappear, strike from the shadows again, and again, and again, in neverending chains. While the heroes have no chance of targetting a fading stalker. Do I think they're overpowered? Heck yes. If the developers gave an advantage to scrappers where they could attack, not get attacked, and then attack again, everyone would be up in arms. They have been, anyone seen regeneration lately?
I don't expect them to get changed. I expect them to be overpowered until a developer gets tired of fighting them in PvP. Until then, until I face otherwise, Stalkers are overpowered and cheap.
I follow some of my own basic rules in PvP. I call it my own twisted code of honor. I play a Claw/SR Scrapper and enjoy fighting Masterminds, Corrupters, Brutes, and Dominators. What I can't stand however is Stalkers. I'm not arrogant enough to say I should win all the time. I really just enjoy a good fight. The problem I have with Stalkers falls back on how tough they seem to be. I have fought quite a few straight out and they almost always walk away with me face planted. I wish I could tell you what secondaries I have trouble with but I usually don't have time to check in the middle of a fight. It wouldn't say its my strategy either. I know to nail a ranged attack (Focus) before I jump in to break his hide. I also have enough sense to back away when he placates and wait to hit focus again. My main issue comes from there survivability. I have stood toe to toe, good fights mind you, with several stalkers. In some cases I can't hit them, I miss almost constantly. In some cases, I will hit them a few times only to have them heal completely or close enough to outlast me in the fight. I never insult them when I lose but I do ask questions to get a better understanding of my oppenent. Most chalk it up that Claws is a gimped set. Maybe but that wouldn't explain my able to go around and around with Brutes. Others say I am slotted wrong. Well I have all my defense 3 Slotted Def with SOs. My attacks Generally have 2 Accuracy SOs, but I still miss like crazy. The main reason this bothers me is for the fact that I do play a Scrapper. When the Scrapper/Stalker compairasons were done, it all ways ended with "Stalkers are alot squisher than Scrappers." If thats true, then why can they outdamage me and defensivly outdue me in one on one fights?
Virtue H&V: CatSquid of Justice-Lvl 37 TriForm PB, Tundra Tigress-Lvl 50 Claws/SR Scrapper, Mistress Khaos-Lvl 50 Dark/Fire Brute, D'Vine Death-Lvl 50 Plant/Thorn Dom, Phrozen Purrgatory-Lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corr, Prowling Pantheress-Lvl 50 Claws/Nin Stalker, Robo Mynx 3.0-Lvl 50 Bots/Traps MM, ArachniBlast-Lvl 50+3 Perma Hasten/Perma Pets/High Recharge Crabspider, Devil's Wrath-Lvl 50 Bane Spider. SG: The 912 Project, VG: Progressively Evil.
I am gathering you just do not like much about PvP.
- You mention the whole 3 on 1 battle. I am not worried about whether or not it's 3 heroes or 3 villains on top of 1. Makes no difference who it is playing, there is nothing wrong with running from a battle if your health is in danger.
- Some whine about Scrappers not having holds so I am guessing you skimmed my post rather than actually read it.
Holds, Fears, Debuffs, Travel Powers, any power that will help you win the battle USE IT!
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They won't add a script that says "If a hero is fighting a npc, and someone attacks the hero, the mob gets mad and attacks the person attacking the hero along with the hero." I know that's a bit complicated, but it shows the flaw of having any npc villians in pvp zones. They're exploited.
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No exploit there bud just a Hero/Villain using the enviroment while in a battle.
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The stalker decides to attack me while I'm fighting a boss, for my SG to get prestiage, and currently they're praised for such tactics. We don't have gms in the zone moderating and dealing with such issues. I can't really expect it though. Bear in mind though that heroes still have to fight wars on two fronts, while most villians have been given powers to exploit heroes from the beginning.
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Did you forget you were in a PvP zone and what exactly a PvP zone is? Why on earth would a Dev need to moderate someone attacking someone in a PvP zone?
Not much else to say, seems more like you just do not understand the concept of PvP and PvP zones.
I think Stalkers are unbalanced, although, I realize there are challenges in balancing them without turning them into scrappers.
It is frustrating, however, fighting higher level scrappers. Even with enhanced perception there's no way of spotting a stalker. They're capable of landing an assassins strike which can nearly one-shot a scrapper. Then they turn and run, which I expect since they don't really have a chance of holding up in a straight fight. But this also means I have no chance of taking them down.
Then what do I do? I could sit around and lure them, risking death. I certainly cant engage anything else while waiting for them because without my health bar pretty much full they will one-shot my hero.
The only way I've been able to deal with stalkers is to have someone like a controller around who can hold them in place, otherwise it's pretty much guaranteed they're going to get away.
I really feel like stalkers were designed with PvP in mind, because they seem to really excel in that environment. But I suppose since things aren't balanced for 1-on-1 encounters this argument is irrelevant.
I don't think reducing damage output, however, is the solution. What I recommend is that stalkers are just barely visible when they're standing right next to you, and if perception is enhance they're visible from a greater distance. However, when they are hidden you can't target them.
This gives a player just enough warning to have a chance of avoiding the initial strike but the stalkers abilities otherwise remain unchanged.
This is the experience I had fighting a lower level stalker and it was a lot of fun. She was occassionally able to land an assassins strike but I could also play with her when I saw her coming. It's not much fun dealing with higher level stalkers who are completely invisible.
I guess you were asking what stalkers thought, but I had to put in my two cents anyway.
Actually you prove my point. As long as people have the attitude that "the best way play is to get 3 friends and find single players low on health and kill them" then you are going to keep the average player out of PvP zones. The only players in PvP zones are going to be other gankers.
While posters say there is nothing wrong with running from battles I still haven't seen one reason WHY. Dieing doesn't cause debt or hurt your PvP stats in this game. Seems to me you're the whiney ones worried about your pride. "I don't want to play if I can't win every time."
As I said most PvPers only want to play if they have an unfair advantage. This is why it doesn't work. Everyone can't have an unfair advantage, it stands to reason.
So if they change the rules, they change the rules. You can still use whatever powers you have to win. You will just have different powers.
The real goal is to make PvP attractive to the mainstream player not to hardcore PvPers, they will play regardless.
The subtext is who cares what gankers think? If your main goal is to ruin other people's game, I see no reason to respect your opinion.
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You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
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I think the main problem with stalkers is this. It's not just about defeating a hero. It's about defeating a hero who's fighting on two fronts. A hero who's fighting a mob? Nope, the stalkers won't target the mob until it's clear and then challenge the hero to a duel. They'll target the hero and use the mobs aggro to help bring them down for debt.
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This works both ways, heroes attacking villains who are PvE'ing and vice versus. Its also AT independent, though stalkers do attack from surprise more often, since thats kind of what the AT was meant to do. As for wanting you to get debt, I am sure there are some on both sides that do, but (this needs testing) I don't believe that you get full/any reputation or bounty if an NPC contributes to the damage.
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They won't add a script that says "If a hero is fighting a npc, and someone attacks the hero, the mob gets mad and attacks the person attacking the hero along with the hero." I know that's a bit complicated, but it shows the flaw of having any npc villians in pvp zones. They're exploited.
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The NPC Heroes and NPC Villains are part of the zone, and they are supposed to be used by both sides. BTW, situations like this is why I _think_ the debt cap was halved in I6.
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The stalker decides to attack me while I'm fighting a boss, for my SG to get prestiage, and currently they're praised for such tactics. We don't have gms in the zone moderating and dealing with such issues. I can't really expect it though. Bear in mind though that heroes still have to fight wars on two fronts, while most villians have been given powers to exploit heroes from the beginning.
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You seem confused to me, are you aware that the mobs in Warburg and BB attack everyone, villain and hero? How about the fact that SC has both factions of NPC's? Villains and Heroes have equal opportunity to use the environment.
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You don't see controllers with pets at level 1, but masterminds are allowed to end up with a few by level 6, and can keep summoning them from the safety of a personal force field.
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I don't believe that summoning works through PFF, but even if it does Supremacy (MM inherent) doesn't, which means the pets are nothing more than regular mobs, which means they last as long as you expect white con minions to last. Seconds.
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You don't see blasters with a chance to one shot something (at least not with any safety), corrupters have the chance to take down scrappers pretty quickly.
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Blasters one shot things pretty regularly, especially MM's who have fewer HP's than any other AT in both games.
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And stalkers. Stalkers exploit one shot kills from the beginning. They were made to deal most of their damage from hiding. The hide function is fine, but having a click placate is the worst hero disadvantage ever. They couldn't make it so that the fading stalker gets an boost to defense as they disappear over time right? Nope, that would be fair. Instead a stalker can placate, disappear, strike from the shadows again, and again, and again, in neverending chains.
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You must have fought Super Stalker or something. No one can chain Placates that way, the recharge is way too long. Even with Hasten and Quickness and Placate 3 slotted with green recharge enhancements I get to use Placate once in a normal fight and twice occasionaly.
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While the heroes have no chance of targetting a fading stalker.
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Again, this is incorrect. Placate affects a single target, any team mates can still target the stalker. Any AoE will reveal him.
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Do I think they're overpowered? Heck yes.
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Based on the number of things you posted that are simply wrong, I don't think you have the facts to make an informed decision.
BTW, I agree that Brutes are what Scrappers and Tanks should have been.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
I run cuz it takes to long to get back to the battles since my fly is too slow.
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Actually you prove my point. As long as people have the attitude that "the best way play is to get 3 friends and find single players low on health and kill them" then you are going to keep the average player out of PvP zones. The only players in PvP zones are going to be other gankers.
While posters say there is nothing wrong with running from battles I still haven't seen one reason WHY. Dieing doesn't cause debt or hurt your PvP stats in this game. Seems to me you're the whiney ones worried about your pride. "I don't want to play if I can't win every time."
As I said most PvPers only want to play if they have an unfair advantage. This is why it doesn't work. Everyone can't have an unfair advantage, it stands to reason.
So if they change the rules, they change the rules. You can still use whatever powers you have to win. You will just have different powers.
The real goal is to make PvP attractive to the mainstream player not to hardcore PvPers, they will play regardless.
The subtext is who cares what gankers think? If your main goal is to ruin other people's game, I see no reason to respect your opinion.
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First of all the word is "Dying"
Did you even read the thread much less my reply to you? Not one of my posts says I think it's "ok" to fight 3 on 1. I didn't say it was "not" ok either. If you do not like it then find a team. If you find you are being repeatedly hunted by the same 3 then leave the zone or send a petition for griefing, if none of those are an option for you then by all means feel free to continue your posts that have nothing to do with Stalkers being overpowered.
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As I said most PvPers only want to play if they have an unfair advantage. This is why it doesn't work. Everyone can't have an unfair advantage, it stands to reason.
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Like you said here "most" surely by that you did not mean "all". If you just want to complain about the way most people are playing then why do it here in the Stalker forum?
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what is the point in having unyielding, which supposedly prevents toggle drops, and then having a stalker come up and each time he hits dropping all of my toggles....that means that unyielding is useless. i wouldnt mind if they dropped my health and killed me that way but dropping my toggles is somthing that should not happen. unyielding doesnt work at all vs stalkers
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Unyielding does not protect from Toggle Drops.
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I think he just said that wrong (or didn't know quite what he was saying :P). One of the main reasons to take UY (and the other mez-protection powers) is to avoid enemies dropping your toggles in PvE. My Inv tank wouldn't really be bothered about being mezzed once in a while, if it didn't sut off his toggles. Getting the mez-protection toggles is like "Yes! Finally my toggles will stay up!".
The whole toggle-dropping mechaninc negates this and reduces us to pre-mez-protection levels of power. If you want to kill me, kill my by overcoming my powers. Not by randomly shutting them off.
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Bam! Exactly! It's been said many times before, in different ways and forums, but it's because it's true. With i5, and ESPECIALLY ED, Toggle-dropping is an outdated and harmful mechanic for Tanks, Scrappers, Brutes and, to a degree, Stalkers.
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The Toggle-Drop effect of certain powers only occur in PvP as far as I know.
Brawl was given the ability to drop toggles too. In Bloody Bay I fought (along with a bunch of other villains) an Invuln/SS tank who literally strolled into the Villain base as if he were all alone. After a while of pounding on him with no significant effect, someone broadcast, "Brawl him you fools!!!" We did, and low and behold, Invincibility dropped seconds later. Then we pasted him.
I'm not a big PvP'er, but hearing that prompted me to go back and check different patch notes dating back to the advent of the Arena, and sure enough, in PvP, certain powers were given the ability to drop toggles.
Before you go saying, OMGBBQ!!!!11!1!1!!!!1!1, read back to the old patch notes. It just makes sense in PvP.
Otherwise the old tanker/defender duo would just own everything.
Some Stalker powers have a chance to drop toggles, BTW. Its not guranteed to happen with every attack from every powerset. However, if two or three Stalkers are all taking pot-shots at a toon running toggles, chances are its eventually going to happen.
Then again, if two or three of any toon is effectively jousting a tank and using Brawl, it's probably just as likely to happen.
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It highlights the issue, in the same way that assassinate drew an underline under the whole "Hey, 1-shotting sucks" issue.
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IMHO the Stealth/Hide combo + AS= the problem. Sure each is a seperate issue with its own problems but when you combine near perfect camo and a one shot? wow look out!
By removing this one powerpool interaction you now force Stalkers into open more often and their foes actually have a chance to defend themselves, which in my eyes is the biggest issue. Give the average player a chance to DO SOMETHING and that is also a large part of this, the average player should not have to take multiple layers of perception just to survive a pvp zone but that is the way it is right now. Two layers or you are meat on the pavement.
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I'm not a big PvP'er, but hearing that prompted me to go back and check different patch notes dating back to the advent of the Arena, and sure enough, in PvP, certain powers were given the ability to drop toggles.
Before you go saying, OMGBBQ!!!!11!1!1!!!!1!1, read back to the old patch notes. It just makes sense in PvP.
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You do know that, in Issue 4, Tanks were walking gods? Toggle dropping was needed then because most were walking around with almost capped (That's right, 90%) resists to everything.
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Brawl was given the ability to drop toggles too. In Bloody Bay I fought (along with a bunch of other villains) an Invuln/SS tank who literally strolled into the Villain base as if he were all alone. After a while of pounding on him with no significant effect, someone broadcast, "Brawl him you fools!!!" We did, and low and behold, Invincibility dropped seconds later. Then we pasted him.
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That sounds like inspirations doing the magic there.
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Some Stalker powers have a chance to drop toggles, BTW. Its not guranteed to happen with every attack from every powerset.
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Yeah, Assassin Strikes drop 2 toggles every time, EVERY TIME. For an Invuln, who has 3 defensive toggles, it's harmful, but for a Fire Tank running like 6 or more, it's not so bad unless it happens to be one of your mez protection toggles. And especially for an attack that can whipe, literally, half of a Tank's or Scrapper's HP, or more, in ONE SHOT with the toggles up, really shouldn't drop any toggles at all.
I also said, that toggle dropping should go because of Issue 5's global defense nerfs and Issue 6's Enhancement Diversification which slammed the defensive sets even worse. So looking back at Issue 4, where it really was a different game, is mostly irrelevant.
The fact that you can no longer one-shot kill undamaged players as of issue 7 should handle this question.
THREAD NECROMANCY IS VERBOTEN, MY GOOD MAN
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Nope,
As a Nin/Nin I have no stunning attacks.
I have no immobilizing attacks.
I have no range attacks.
I have a highly resisted damage type.
I have no knockback protection.
I am the weakest stalker. Without hide...I'm the weakest melee AT.
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Hmm... that sounds familiar. Overpowered? Only on Mountain Dew and Chocolate-covered coffee beans!
We're a tactical class. Designed to take out the big baddie before they do to much damage. With the perception bonuses out there, they've almost taken away our ability to attack unseen. <--- not intended for experienced players
I'd almost go so far as to say we're under-powered now, not being able to 1-shot. But i wont.
*Poof!*
I don't even know where to go with this one.
Stalker's are unbalanced. There are many things in the realm of CoX that can easily defeat 1, and we do no damage compared to others, and have no ranged attacks.
BUT
Dominator's are unbalanced. There are many things in the realm of CoX that can easily defeat 1.
Corruptor's are unbalanced. There are many things in the realm of CoX that can easily defeat 1.
MM's are unbalanced.... see where this is going?
Throughout almost every thread i've ever read, there's always some person complaining about his AT not being Uber, or someone else's being too Uber. The only balance in the CoX force is that we all have 5 general AT's to choose from. From there, it's up to you to find something that fits your playstyle. Because all the AT's compliment each other, grabbing the *nerfbat* on one poor victim AT because you got whooped in PvP on your day off is not the answer.
( *Reminder* - You will not build an all-star toon that can take on and pwn everyone, everytime. It just won't happen. This game is not designed to play that way. It's not a console game with up,up,down,down,left,right,left,right,B,A,start. )
Change your tactics. Get different powers. Try something else!
This is a game, supposed to be fun. So find some fun in it already!
(Can you tell this has me steamed?)
No.
1. if you want to PVP effectively you know how to get around stalkers. Hide isn't that great, it takes 1 small yellow to see through it if you don't feel like getting tactics to keep yourself safe.
2. hey here's an idea to get around 3 on 1 gang ups, TEAM. This game will never be balanced for one on one and everyone says its so what's your aversion to teaming?
3. I don't care if someone runs when they're about to die in a fair fight, but running because your only strategy was 30 purple inspirations is lame.
*points to sig* Leave my stalker alone, I PvE fine, and PvP is eh.
Yes. Nerf me please. NERF ME NOW!
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I'd almost go so far as to say we're under-powered now, not being able to 1-shot. But i wont.
*Poof!*
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*whew* 
Nerf Regen.
It brought this thread back from the dead after 7 months.
If your standing still in PVP you deserve to be ASd.
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If your standing still in PVP you deserve to be ASd.
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Damn skippy. Hate to jump on a long dead thread but yeah, if someone doesn't have the sense to stay mobile I'd say they are either afk, baiting you for an ambush, a total noob to pvp or begging to get AS'd. (or any combination)
The real problem is that in PvP no one wants a fair fight. Everyone wants an unfair advantage.
Best example I can make is that is my Dominator gets attacked while Domination is up I turn and hold them. They hit break free. I hold them again. They hit break free, turn on Super Speed or Super Jump and head for zone line. They attacked me but as soon as they don't have the advantage they are out of there.
PvP just doesn't work terribly well one-on-one in this game. Because of: \
1) invisibility
2) travel powers
3) general cowardice of PvPers
Yes most PvPers are cowards. They run from fights even though there is no debt. They form groups to hunt individuals. They camp hosptials and come up with strategies like Trip-Mine + Port Foe which is really pointless but at least has a set up time. Anything to avoid actually having to fight head-to head on an even basis.
I think part of the problem really is that they have gotten used to PvE play and are applying the same strategies to PvP even though there is no need.
Against a team a Stalker isn't nearly as effective. Sure he can get off 1 shot but if there is a couple people with holds in there who can overwhelm his protection or something like mud pots. Stalkers can't take a lot of damage and Villains don't have the defensive buffs or healing power in groups that Heros do.
The main problem now is that you have a lot of whiney people complaining because they don't have the unfair advantage every time in PvP.
I will agree on one level though with some of them travel powers do make PvP zones pointless. Too many people run from any fight that they may lose. The complete loss of travel powers would make it hard on those doing missions however (stealth in SS is critical for many). I would suggest extending the suppression on travel powers in PvP zones to be like 30-45 seconds. Something huge anyway so that no one runs from a fight or uses hit-and-run tactics. If possible make this suppression only apply after an attack on another player rather than on a mob.
If your gonna fight, fight. (look for people to 3 slot sprint and swift LOL)
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You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.