Take away the "Stealth/Hide" combo and you are fine. Near perfect camoflage combined with a one shot attack and break target lock power is over the top.
since this is going to be on the first page every time i go to the forums i might as well just put my one post in.
I expect that this AT will be changed Drastically apon next issue because of the constant [censored] and moaning from these Punks who Can't handle the fact that we have a "special damage attack".
theres no need to question our ability because punks are crying to the devs. God help us all. if these punks keep CRYING Our Archtype will get Ruined . Did you notice how many posts there are complaining about stalkers?
do you hear me?
And personally, i feel that inplace of our health, our special dmg attack is given.
"To recieve, you must give" and it's balanced.
So if they take hide/stealth away any fool with tactics will see us. What's the point of being a stalker in the first place if the 80% of players can see through your hide and avoid the AS? Ahh...let me guess, that way you can easily kill them.
I think the reason people think stalkers are overpowered is because really, that's all you see in PvP. When I play my heroes in Siren's Call, 99% of the villians there are stalkers. They run, AS, then run away. It's really not a lot of fun.
I'm sure, if the other villian AT's were out there, it would take some of the heat off stalkers.
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As a non-Stalker who's gonna butt-in, here's what I see (related to the above). From posts by fervent PvPers elsewhere around here, a good percentage of the Villains in the PvP zones are Stalkers. So, given that there's a group of ATs/builds/whatever that (from the quote above) "have no chance" against said Stalkers you're gonna continue to hear the lamentations of their women about it.
I wouldn't be so bitter myself if there was something my Rad/Rad defender could do besides zipping randomly around the sky like a crystal meth junkie to have a fair fight against a TP Stalker. As it is now, when I suddenly appear somewhere where I wasn't a moment before I just grab my ankles.
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First, no one has "no chance" against a stalker unless they choose to ignore the options of dealing with a stalker. Everybody has the ability to choose Tactics. A lot of AT powersets have something that can make life difficult for a stalker. Everyone can team.
As for a TP stalker, TP foe is not the end all be all unless you are being ported into a place with no obstacles that block line of view. If there is a building right near you, run for the corner as fast as you can. AStrike does not hit if the target is obscured from view. TP foe also knocks off Hide, so a stalker doing that to you will need to placate before doing the AStrike which gives time to RUN. Unless they happen to have a nice mez they can pop on you to prevent you from going anywhere before placating.
I admit, a PvP stalker build is damn hard to fight unless you plan a PvP build with counters for it. But a fair amount of stalkers do NOT have a PvP build. And they can be dealt with without needing to plan your build entirely around PvP.
Some of the kills I gain as a stalker, I really should not have gained. But because my opponent was too slow to react, didn't pay attention to their surroundings, or did not use their terrain to advantage, I gain a number of kills.
The one thing that some people don't seem to understand is that PvP is extremely fast paced. It is not like PvE where you can predict to some degree exactly what will happen. You cannot just stand still and hit buttons and win. You must keep moving and you must be alert. Most importantly, you must be prepared to take a fall and to get back up and try again.
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When I was turned into the bitter creature that I am now:
1) I had tactics and maneuvers running
2) was on a team
3) was standing next to someone with tactics & maneuvers running
4) was standing on top of a tall building with my teammates (we were waiting, for quite a while)
5) was repeadtedly TP'd to the ground into a nitch in the building like:
[----
s m| <------ s = stalker, m = me
[----
so that I could not escape.
6) the events were, over and over, TP+Placate+AS, except for the time when there were 3 stalkers crowded in there around me and it was: TP+Placate+AS+AS+AS
I realize that this is a legitimate tactic, however, I had no defense against the TP or the Placate (apparently since it worked every time) and was not allowed to fight back (ooo I'm a big scary defender, you'd better Placate me!!). Yeah I know, Stalkers of villians -- it's just shown me (at least) as a group they are sniviling little cowards who didn't have the guts to take on a Defender in a fair fight. A fair fight I'm not saying I would have one but, of course, I'll never know, will I.
Anyway, I'll leave y'all to your little confab.
No, we are not overpowered. I have a Lvl 16 Stalker- One shotting orange minions is the lvl I like to keep my AS at. In PVP I think there is alot of crying foul, because of situations like what happened to Raging_Tempest. But that to me is greifing, NOT PVP and should be petitioned.
I hope they don't touch the stalker, hey, I can dream can't I?
"I'm not scared of anyone or anything Angie. Isn't that the way life should be?"
Jack Hawksmoor, The Authority.
your whining because you got beat in pvp.
i've mentioned this occasion many times in a previous post topic on the stalker board at this link.
Here
Now, If you don't mind i'd love to add in a few quotes that made me laugh
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Yeah I know, Stalkers of villians -- it's just shown me (at least) as a group they are sniviling little cowards who didn't have the guts to take on a Defender in a fair fight. A fair fight I'm not saying I would have one but, of course, I'll never know, will I.
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sorry if i offend anyone.
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I think the reason people think stalkers are overpowered is because really, that's all you see in PvP. When I play my heroes in Siren's Call, 99% of the villians there are stalkers. They run, AS, then run away. It's really not a lot of fun.
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No comment...
Heres the Best quote from page 6. I feel this should be Framed in a pop-up window when you enter the Stalker forum:
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The one thing that some people don't seem to understand is that PvP is extremely fast paced. It is not like PvE where you can predict to some degree exactly what will happen. You cannot just stand still and hit buttons and win.
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ok well truth be told if an AT has you changing your way of fighting then maybe its for the better i mean damn whens the last time you got faceplated and said maybe im doing something wrong with how im approaching this.
and if you say well i dont mind it happening once or twice but multiple times, then let me advice you take a controller friend or if your a controller anything that may counter your squishiness.
now if can get some aoes in ther you can pretty much call the AS nulled or if you can brawl the stalker that should be a fast enough move to be able to cancel the move AS. also if you stack yourself with some plus perception abilities you can null their hide with enough maybe even hide/stealth.
also the purple pills work great too. and if you time your move right you can cancel the placate move as i think theirs something wrong with it cuz you can override it if you att at the right time its being used. happen to me afew times in mish
lets see you should have some form of protection against them every at seems to have some counter measure to given situations. hell ive got some scrapp ability in me if my AS goes awry it might not be that great but he can do it.
so please no more saying that were overpowered or we have some secret 'i win button ' cuz we dont.
about us being nerfed in anyway its possible but i dont know if it can be called that not until the devs say what they are going to do and it actually goes live,so we can determine wether its a nerf or not. i dont think itll happen untill theres some higher lvl pvp open to see how the stalkers do againts heroes/villains of a higher magnitude although i could be wrong.
and anyways pvp is meant to be chaotic with team emphasize so you take a gamble when you enter it regardless of your moral actions/code there will always be, i supose to some extent gankers waiting for you to walk in.
ok well truth be told if an AT has you changing your way of fighting then maybe its for the better i mean damn whens the last time you got faceplated and said maybe im doing something wrong with how im approaching this.
and if you say well i dont mind it happening once or twice but multiple times, then let me advice you take a controller friend or if your a controller anything that may counter your squishiness.
now if can get some aoes in ther you can pretty much call the AS nulled or if you can brawl the stalker that should be a fast enough move to be able to cancel the move AS. also if you stack yourself with some plus perception abilities you can null their hide with enough maybe even hide/stealth.
also the purple pills work great too. and if you time your move right you can cancel the placate move as i think theirs something wrong with it cuz you can override it if you att at the right time its being used. happen to me afew times in mish
lets see you should have some form of protection against them every at seems to have some counter measure to given situations. hell ive got some scrapp ability in me if my AS goes awry it might not be that great but he can do it.
so please no more saying that were overpowered or we have some secret 'i win button ' cuz we dont.
about us being nerfed in anyway its possible but i dont know if it can be called that not until the devs say what they are going to do and it actually goes live,so we can determine wether its a nerf or not. i dont think itll happen untill theres some higher lvl pvp open to see how the stalkers do againts heroes/villains of a higher magnitude although i could be wrong.
and anyways pvp is meant to be chaotic with team emphasize so you take a gamble when you enter it regardless of your moral actions/code there will always be, i supose to some extent gankers waiting for you to walk in.
I initially thought that there was no problem and it was just me being rubbish at PvP. I think I've started to see reasons for the imbalance now though.
1) Given equal numbers of heroes and villains in the PvP zone there are a usually a high proportion of Stalkers in the villain population. This means the heroes have to be built to be able to deal with Stalkers; not good for casual play.
2) Since the other villain ATs can be seen by the heroes they are quickly overwhelmed if the Stalkers do not gang up on the heroes to help out. There is certainly a PvP balance issue here.
3) TP + AS + SJ. I've seen this tactic and it is very boring to fight against. Stalker lands, probably one-shots, and runs far away using SJ. This, of course, requires the double stealth combo.
4) Attack avoidance also may be an issue. It is in the Stalkers interest to have the AS be uninterrupted by AoE or targeted attacks. If the heroes consistently find themselves unable to hit the Stalker when they spot him try to AS they will just learn to run away from Stalkers.
5) Teaming does not solve the AS issue as it gives the Stalker a clump of targets that are easier to find. Please don't suggest that the heroes should all have to stand next to each other in fear as a 'solution' to being one-shotted.
I'd look at scaling the cost of IR goggles dependent on level and capping Stealth and Perception effects much lower. One-shotting should not be possible.
Also, does anyone know a bind to target player opponents only?
Pinnacle - Atlantean L33 Eng/Eng Blaster, Aeonian L25 Rad/Dar Defender, Darksaw L38 Kat/Da Scrapper, Purple Dynamite L25 Inv/Eng Tanker
Freedom - Volcanic Force L50 Fire/FF Controller, Violent Force L30 Fire/Psi Dominator, Tabubua L24 Claw/Regen Stalker
Victory - Calistus L26 SS/EA Brute
Backstory: I play a level 34 stalker, and that's about it... I have a few alts, but I don't really play them that much.
I honestly think that TPFoe needs to either A)have it's acc DRASTICALLY reduced in PvP or B)institute a resistance type system for it... I.E. A single player can't TP another player, the TPFoe would reduce the target's resistance to it, and appear in the buff window for 10 seconds... So, for example, a team could tpfoe people by stacking them, but a stalker couldn't go around TPFoe'ing squishies.
I love my stalker, especially in PvP, but TPFoe is ridiculous, honestly.
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1) Given equal numbers of heroes and villains in the PvP zone there are a usually a high proportion of Stalkers in the villain population. This means the heroes have to be built to be able to deal with Stalkers; not good for casual play.
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So, basically you are saying that many people that play Villains have opted to create Stalkers? Stalkers are a brand new AT in the CoH/V combo, of course they are going to be popular to start. Keep in mind the game (CoV) is still fairly young. Not seeing how this unbalances the situation as more and more venture out to try other AT's after trying the "new" ones. Guess you could suggest to the Devs to create limits on the Servers as to how many of each type of character can be on at a certain time. *shrugs* dont think this would make for happy players though.
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2) Since the other villain ATs can be seen by the heroes they are quickly overwhelmed if the Stalkers do not gang up on the heroes to help out. There is certainly a PvP balance issue here.
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This is another one of those "talk to me when the game has been out longer" situations. complaining that there are just not enough "different" flavors of Villains/Heroes playing isn't the fault of the game, devs or anything. It's simply the people who are paying to play have chosen to play certain AT's.
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3) TP + AS + SJ. I've seen this tactic and it is very boring to fight against. Stalker lands, probably one-shots, and runs far away using SJ. This, of course, requires the double stealth combo.
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I have seen this tactic as well only it looks something more like TP+Rage+Insight+Luck+BU+AS and then SJ or TP or SS off (inspirations may vary or not be used at all). Nothing wrong with it. You are dead to him why should he hang around? Were you hoping he would hang around and pass you an awaken? Still see nothing wrong with this tactic.
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4) Attack avoidance also may be an issue. It is in the Stalkers interest to have the AS be uninterrupted by AoE or targeted attacks. If the heroes consistently find themselves unable to hit the Stalker when they spot him try to AS they will just learn to run away from Stalkers.
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Avoidance is not only and option it's a tactic. Just as some may not want to engage with a Stalker a Stalker is going to be picking and choosing his targets as well. Not seeing an issue here.
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5) Teaming does not solve the AS issue as it gives the Stalker a clump of targets that are easier to find. Please don't suggest that the heroes should all have to stand next to each other in fear as a 'solution' to being one-shotted.
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Ridiculous point IMO. Targets are easier to find yes. Once that first AS and the Stalker is revealed, the Stalkers damage has just significantly decreased. That team has a better chance to take on that Stalker now that he is uncloaked and out in the open. Surely you and your team have at least a few skills to engage a Stalker that is not in hide?
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I'd look at scaling the cost of IR goggles dependent on level and capping Stealth and Perception effects much lower. One-shotting should not be possible.
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It has already been said that one shotting will be going away.
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Also, does anyone know a bind to target player opponents only?
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Nope sorry, wish I did.
I think there is a glaring problem with stalkers its not the one shot kills or whatever its after that. After a stalkers drops a person they r gone especially if they have super jump or fly. they just run away and turn on hide and other invisibility powers. i know there is a small window of oppurtunity, but that is to small for lets say a defender to deal enough damage to drop a stalker. even if a stalkers fails to AS someone they still can get out of combat fairly quickly. especially if ur chasing one down and u do connect a blow after that your travel powers become slowed for a period of time that is usually to long to kill a stalker. any archetype should stand a chance against any other archetype. I submit to fix the problem or to even the playing field would be to make a stalker slow for a period of time after as, which would also fit into the archetype character. They would then have to be a bit more cunning in their attack knowing that they will be put into a delicate situation. Because ive seen stalkers jump into the middle of a group of 5 heroes kill one and still escape without anything to worry about. Yes there are tactics where u can protect yourself against their assasin strike but those r to limited and are based on situational powers. not everyone has an aura or perception, besides ive never seen an aura actually save someone from an AS im sure they can and do but it seems to me to be a very rare occurance. I could be wrong but i just dont c it. Im a spine scrapper and i always have quills on ive never stopped an AS because i had quills on. Even if I dont die in one hit from stalkers it usually take 2 or 3 but even so after just one hit that drops u to 25% hp doesnt make u want to chase down a stalker it makes u want to wait till ur hp is back. anyone who claims stalkers are fair and balanced seems almost ignorant to the power they possess. as a scrapper i usually do pretty well in pvp, but even if i drop 3 hours of play into pvp i can not get as many kills as a stalker, the battles r mroe drawn out and can swing in other peoples favor throughout the battle. Plus alot of kids play the game and they cant strategize against something that powerful. they dont even know what happens half the time.
It's not a question of stalkers being overpowered. It's a question of whether the way the devs designed the Stalker archetype makes the overall PvP game more fun, or less fun for everybody, not just stalkers. I don't think we know the answer to that yet. If the PvP zones start to become ghost towns then we'll have a pretty clear answer. If they stay populated then at worst stalkers are considered acceptable.
Nogala
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I honestly think that TPFoe needs to either A)have it's acc DRASTICALLY reduced in PvP
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It's already pretty inaccurate... and generally when I take someone out using TP Foe, I use Build Up first to ensure the hit; Buildup's duration is long enough that it's up through the whole BU+TP+Placate+AS+Followup combo. The only thing nerfing TP Foe accuracy will do is hurt non-Stalker/Blasters.
@Mindshadow
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TP + AS + SJ. I've seen this tactic and it is very boring to fight against. Stalker lands, probably one-shots, and runs far away using SJ. This, of course, requires the double stealth combo.
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I pretty exclusively "telestrike" with my stalker. I teleport in (while hovering), AS, and then I'm gone. This is about as fast an escape as it's possible to make, and I still get taken out, if not regularly, then a lot more often than I would have thought. It's difficult to wrap your mind around, and requires that people be on their toes, but stalkers are so squishy that it's entirely possible for a small hero team at the Siren's Call levels to squish one in the time between AS finishing and queued teleport firing off.
It's the same reason people curse Nemesis Snipers in PvE. Stalkers disrupt the managed flow of battle, and force you to be aware of your surroundings and the local terrain and lines of sight at all times.
I've played my Clear Mind-spamming Empath in PvP, so believe me, I know from ganking.
@Mindshadow
I think the same thing I thought in Beta, when this question was asked (on every archetype board).
No.
Can this thread (and all the others like it) finally get put to rest?
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Logarithm:
Victims see the AS
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No...to the new pvper out there of course it seems that way.
Stalkers are like every other pvp build out there..some builds have no chance against us, others it's going to be a fight for us, and other builds we have no chance against.
Seriously check the general PvP forum all the whining and nerf calling that's been over since I4 started right back up again. All the new players who stayed out of the arena are now having to play catch up. Either you find a way to adapt or you get killed repeatedly.
I'd even be willing to bet that most of the serious PvPers have stalkers...so what is being seen is good players vs bad players. Seems most of my kills against tanks and scrappers is nothing other then me out playing them.
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As a non-Stalker who's gonna butt-in, here's what I see (related to the above). From posts by fervent PvPers elsewhere around here, a good percentage of the Villains in the PvP zones are Stalkers. So, given that there's a group of ATs/builds/whatever that (from the quote above) "have no chance" against said Stalkers you're gonna continue to hear the lamentations of their women about it.
I wouldn't be so bitter myself if there was something my Rad/Rad defender could do besides zipping randomly around the sky like a crystal meth junkie to have a fair fight against a TP Stalker. As it is now, when I suddenly appear somewhere where I wasn't a moment before I just grab my ankles.
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Can I take out defenders with my stalker on a consistant basis? Yes.
Have defenders taken out my stalker on a consistant basis? Yes.
Stalkers are like submarines. They can be devastating when they strike 1st, but they can be easily taken out if discovered.
I've said this before, PvP is really best experienced as a part of a team. Teams make it harder for stalkers to get close to make their kill, and make it much harder for them to escape after making the kill.
There have been many times where I will willing to be defeated in order to make (or attempt) a kill vs a team.
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It's not a question of stalkers being overpowered. It's a question of whether the way the devs designed the Stalker archetype makes the overall PvP game more fun, or less fun for everybody, not just stalkers. I don't think we know the answer to that yet. If the PvP zones start to become ghost towns then we'll have a pretty clear answer. If they stay populated then at worst stalkers are considered acceptable.
Nogala
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That is a bit exaggerated i would say. i love playihng pvp because i enjoy fighting brutes and other ATs. However, stalkers make me frustrated at pvp but im not gonna stop playing because of some bad apples. Trust me PVP can be fun but when your just sitting in your base waiting for your team to get outa the hospital and a stalker comes by and drops you then gets sent back home from the drones that is not fun. Thats when it becomes abusive and an exploit.
I don't mind stalkers at all... I just find them boring to fight. It's pretty hard for a stalker to take down my regen. They AS, then run away... and I'm still fine. it remids me more like the buzzing of flies.
Seriously, if I'm standing alone, why not try to finish the job? My toggles have dropped, it shouldn't be THAT hard. Seriously, I had 3 of the little buggers on me last night. They would AS, then run away... being a regen, that just let me get back to full health and end. After a while, I stopped trying to chase/follow them. I just ignored it.
My stalker is to low to PvP yet, but in PvE I at least stay and fight. The whole "lancing" technique just gets boring to deal with in my opinion.
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My stalker is to low to PvP yet, but in PvE I at least stay and fight. The whole "lancing" technique just gets boring to deal with in my opinion.
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Yes, but it's entertaining as hell for the stalker, and that's what really matters.
@Mindshadow
stalkers are most definately over powered. i have an invulnerable tank who can sit in the villain base with 6 masterminds corruptors dominators brutes, or anything else except for stalkers and not even lose a drop of health...but if a single stalker comes up to me, and AS me then it drops 1/4 my health and drops my toggles. by the time i get toggles on again he as me and health goes down more...continuing to do this they can kill me, because i never run...my motto with my tank is "if i am going to die, let me die because i deserved it"
but this stalker stuff is a little outrageous...it would be no problem if they couldnt drop my toggles but, they do even with unyielding and weave on...WHY???
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stalkers are most definately over powered. i have an invulnerable tank who can sit in the villain base with 6 masterminds corruptors dominators brutes, or anything else except for stalkers and not even lose a drop of health...but if a single stalker comes up to me, and AS me then it drops 1/4 my health and drops my toggles. by the time i get toggles on again he as me and health goes down more...continuing to do this they can kill me, because i never run...my motto with my tank is "if i am going to die, let me die because i deserved it"
but this stalker stuff is a little outrageous...it would be no problem if they couldnt drop my toggles but, they do even with unyielding and weave on...WHY???
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ok wait let me get something straight here..
You're an Invul tank and can
"sit in the villain base with 6 masterminds corruptors dominators brutes, or anything else except for stalkers and not even lose a drop of health"
Are you sure it's the Stalkers with the over powered problem or are you just upset that 1 out of all the AT's you mentioned can penetrate your defenses and smack you around like a rag doll?
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stalkers are most definately over powered. i have an invulnerable tank who can sit in the villain base with 6 masterminds corruptors dominators brutes, or anything else except for stalkers and not even lose a drop of health...
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Take cover! The irony meter is overheating!
@Mindshadow
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As a non-Stalker who's gonna butt-in, here's what I see (related to the above). From posts by fervent PvPers elsewhere around here, a good percentage of the Villains in the PvP zones are Stalkers. So, given that there's a group of ATs/builds/whatever that (from the quote above) "have no chance" against said Stalkers you're gonna continue to hear the lamentations of their women about it.
I wouldn't be so bitter myself if there was something my Rad/Rad defender could do besides zipping randomly around the sky like a crystal meth junkie to have a fair fight against a TP Stalker. As it is now, when I suddenly appear somewhere where I wasn't a moment before I just grab my ankles.
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First, no one has "no chance" against a stalker unless they choose to ignore the options of dealing with a stalker. Everybody has the ability to choose Tactics. A lot of AT powersets have something that can make life difficult for a stalker. Everyone can team.
As for a TP stalker, TP foe is not the end all be all unless you are being ported into a place with no obstacles that block line of view. If there is a building right near you, run for the corner as fast as you can. AStrike does not hit if the target is obscured from view. TP foe also knocks off Hide, so a stalker doing that to you will need to placate before doing the AStrike which gives time to RUN. Unless they happen to have a nice mez they can pop on you to prevent you from going anywhere before placating.
I admit, a PvP stalker build is damn hard to fight unless you plan a PvP build with counters for it. But a fair amount of stalkers do NOT have a PvP build. And they can be dealt with without needing to plan your build entirely around PvP.
Some of the kills I gain as a stalker, I really should not have gained. But because my opponent was too slow to react, didn't pay attention to their surroundings, or did not use their terrain to advantage, I gain a number of kills.
The one thing that some people don't seem to understand is that PvP is extremely fast paced. It is not like PvE where you can predict to some degree exactly what will happen. You cannot just stand still and hit buttons and win. You must keep moving and you must be alert. Most importantly, you must be prepared to take a fall and to get back up and try again.