Accuracy

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That chart isn't quite correct either (missed the 50-60 range). It's actually:

Final to-hit : misses allowed
>.9 : 1
.8-.9 : 2
.6-.8 : 3
.4-.6 : 4
.3-.4 : 6
.2-.3 : 8
0 -.2 : 100



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That still does nothign to explain why characters using 2 Accuracy SOs in all attacks can see massive miss streaks, when, according to that chart, the worst we should ever experience is a 50% miss ratio.

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The system does not track each power individually; instead it tracks every miss you make in a row, regardless of power (or target). Otherwise you could have nine different powers, each with a 0.95 to-hit, and if you executed them all in a row you could miss each attack (note a caveat at the bottom of the post regarding this).


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Thank you! I'm so glad to finally see this from a redname! this has been one of the biggest mysteries regarding the streakbreaker since Beta!

WOW!!!!eleven!

I had no idea my brawl attack was LOWERING my effective hit rate [thus DPS], due to slotting & accuracy differences o_0

Brawl aside, this definetly explains how I can miss an entire buildup attack chain against blue minions (I think). I guess I need to be a bit more careful on my slotting & attack chain used.

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ACC / Length of miss streak before we force a hit
>90 / 1
80-90 / 2
60-80 / 3
30-50 / 4
20-30 / 6
10-20 / 8
1-10 / 100

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The only thing that bugs me about this chart is that about a year ago, there was an argument about the streak breaker on the Scrapper forum and someone claimed to have logged over 100 consecutive misses. I can not confirm the actual count nor can I confirm that there were no uncontrolled variables involved in the test itself (eg, maybe the mob attacked someone else, too, and hit?), but certainly since then, the prevailing argument has been that the streakbreaker never really comes into play significantly enough to negatively affect defensive sets. Certainly, the numbers from this chart show otherwise.

For instance, with a 33% chance to hit, you'd have a 64/729 chance to miss 5 times in a row, or roughly a 1/12 chance to miss 6 times in a row and automatically hit the 7th time. 1/12 is pretty significant.

Wierdbeard,

Thanks for that response. A lot of us love that sort of detail.

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This was PM'd to me by a user who got the info from Pohsyb.
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The streakbreaker will force a hit if there has been a long series of misses (only for heroes)
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ACC / Length of miss streak before we force a hit
>90 / 1
80-90 / 2
60-80 / 3
30-50 / 4
20-30 / 6
10-20 / 8
1-10 / 100
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The random number is calculated simply by the C stdlib rand().

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Of course if you examine that chart closely then what you said originally would be accurate for even cons with no special defense.

If the allowable number of misses for a 60-80% accuracy is 3 then that certainly fits the original comment, since the chance to hit an even-con is a base 75% for players. I assume the chart was purposely made simplistic for convenience. Obviously it can't be referring technically to the player's "accuracy" in a vacuum, but to the players final chance "to hit" after all of the variables are accounted for such as force fields, bonus defense, buffs, level differences, and so on.

So, if you for example were fighting a +3 Rikti Drone or Death Mage (both of which have notoriously high defense), then it is quite probable that you would have to miss more than the 1-3 times it would be if it was purely based on your power's beginning accuracy before the streak breaker forced a hit. Apparently he said "accuracy" meaning "final chance to hit".

That makes perfect sense, is a reasonable way to do it, and seems to line-up with my own arguably subjective experience.

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That chart isn't quite correct either (missed the 50-60 range). It's actually:

Final to-hit : misses allowed
>.9 : 1
.8-.9 : 2
.6-.8 : 3
.4-.6 : 4
.3-.4 : 6
.2-.3 : 8
0 -.2 : 100

You're correct, it's the final to-hit chance (in the range [0.05 .. 0.95]) of an actual executed attack against a specific target.

Auto-hit powers are not included in the system.

Critters get the benefits of the system as well.

The system does not track each power individually; instead it tracks every miss you make in a row, regardless of power (or target). Otherwise you could have nine different powers, each with a 0.95 to-hit, and if you executed them all in a row you could miss each attack (note a caveat at the bottom of the post regarding this).

AE attacks are considered distinct sequential attacks on indivudual targets for the purpose of the system (so if you AEd two targets and had 0.95 to-hit for both, you be guaranteed to hit one of them).



To determine the to-hit used in the table above, you take either the current to-hit, or the worst to-hit in your current miss series, whichever is lower.

As an example, imagine that your first attack of the day had a final to-hit chance of 0.91, but missed. Therefore you are currently in a miss series of length 1, with a minimum to-hit of 0.91.

For your next attack you choose to use an auto-hit power. It is ignored for the purposes of the system, so you are still considered in a miss series of length 1 with min to-hit of 0.91.

For your next attack, you use a normal attack with a final to-hit chance of 0.95. Since the worst to-hit of the entire series is 0.91, and 0.91 (miss series) < 0.95 (current attack), you find 0.91 in the table. The table states you are only allowed one miss, and so this attack is forced to be successful. The attack lands, and your miss series tracking is reset.

However, imagine that instead your last attack was less accurate, or you attack a different target which has more defense; lets say the final to-hit is 0.89 instead of 0.95. In this case, 0.89 (current attack) < 0.91 (miss series), so you have to use 0.89 when you look at the table. In this case, you are allowed two misses in a row, and therefore the attack is NOT forced to hit.

If you hit anyway, your miss tracking is reset.

If you do in fact miss (unlucky you), you are now in a miss series of length 2, with a min to-hit of 0.89. If your next attack has a final to-hit of 0.80 or higher, it will be forced to hit (because you're only allowed two misses). If the next attack has a to-hit less than 0.80, then it hits or misses like normal, and so on and so forth.



Something to note, for those inclined to note such things. Because we do the lookup based on your worst to-hit in the series, the streak breaker is a bit less aggressive about breaking streaks than it might initially appear from the table. If you miss an ill-advised attack with a final to-hit of 0.15, you would in fact be allowed to continue the miss series for another 99 attacks, even if all the followup attacks are of capped to-hit, should you be unlucky enough.

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Wonderful, thanks for clearing that up. We've been trying to work off the data pohysb sent us, but were not quite sure as to some of the ambiguities of the system. I think you cleared up most of them. Now we can get testing..

One question. You say it works for critters too, does that mean it works for enemies? Or just us and pets?

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The random number is calculated simply by the C stdlib rand().

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Pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease change this. The ANSI RAND function is a very, very poor random number generator. Even with decent or better than decent choices for your seed values, you're still going to end up with predicatable results, and predictable patterns. Humans hate being able to guess 'random' events. It breaks the immersion. Seeing the output of a pure rand() function is actually painfully cyclical!

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You say it works for critters too, does that mean it works for enemies?

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I'm pretty sure critters is the dev word for enemies.

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One question. You say it works for critters too, does that mean it works for enemies? Or just us and pets?

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If it helps I had a bugged Mud Pots on a character and whenever an enemy stepped into it, I got sytem messages about critters. So I'd bet "critter" is game engine speak for "attackable NPC", such as enemies and hostages.

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One question. You say it works for critters too, does that mean it works for enemies? Or just us and pets?

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Castle said specific the steak breaker only appied to Players. Pet can be considered just an extention of the player. Ergo, I'm pretty sure that 'critters' are pets.

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The only thing that bugs me about this chart is that about a year ago, there was an argument about the streak breaker on the Scrapper forum and someone claimed to have logged over 100 consecutive misses. I can not confirm the actual count nor can I confirm that there were no uncontrolled variables involved in the test itself (eg, maybe the mob attacked someone else, too, and hit?), but certainly since then, the prevailing argument has been that the streakbreaker never really comes into play significantly enough to negatively affect defensive sets. Certainly, the numbers from this chart show otherwise.

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The 100 miss string your referencing was coming from a floored mobs attacks against a SR scrapper.

As you can see from the chart above, if the mobs accuracy was floored (5%), then the SR scrapper could go up to 100 attacks without being hit.

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Castle said specific the steak breaker only appied to Players. Pet can be considered just an extention of the player. Ergo, I'm pretty sure that 'critters' are pets.

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I can't find him referring to the Streak Breaker not applying to enemies. I can find him, however, stating that :
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I attacked a total of 38917 times.
I hit 29275 times.
I missed 9642 times.

That is a 75.22% overall to hit chance against an even level critter with no defense powers.

There is no "Accuracy Wrap Around" -- otherwise Blasters with Targetting Drone + Aim + Build Up would never, ever hit, which is not the case.

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How can I make a NEW character, run up to PRISONERS in breakout and miss 10 times in a row?
Explain that one please.

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If everything was 'working as intended' that would not be possible.

Take a lvl 1 single target attack and brawl.
both have 75% accuracy.

in order for a 10 miss streak to occur, Prisoners would need to have 65% def.

_Castle_, Weird Beird ... how much def do Prisoners have ?

Thanks, WeirdBeard! I've been wondering about this since I first heard about the streakbreaker.

or here is another test to show that something is broken.


hit something once
Overdose on accuracy via - TargetingDrone + Acc SOs + Aim + Buildup + Focused accuracy + Acc inspires.


If you ever miss twice in a row after that then something is broken.

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The system does not track each power individually; instead it tracks every miss you make in a row, regardless of power (or target). Otherwise you could have nine different powers, each with a 0.95 to-hit, and if you executed them all in a row you could miss each attack (note a caveat at the bottom of the post regarding this).

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Ooh?

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To determine the to-hit used in the table above, you take either the current to-hit, or the worst to-hit in your current miss series, whichever is lower.

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Aww.

And here I was about to go out guaranteeing hits on my targets by standing around whiffing on some high-def inert thing (a friendly SR scrapper or something) until I was past the streak breaker for the to-hit on my real target. Pity.

So, to get the most out of the streak breaker....never switch back and forth between high-def and low-def targets?

Then how is it possible to miss 3 or 4 attacks in a row while using Aim and Buildup?

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Okay now based off that chart

How can I make a NEW character, run up to PRISONERS in breakout and miss 10 times in a row?

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To expand on that, why are we seeing streaks at all on characters with accuracy SOs slotted in powers with the base 75% accuracy (in other words, not powers with accuracy penalties)? Regardless of whether accuracy SOs are additive (75% + 33% = 108%) or multiplicative (75% * 1.33 = 100%), there should never be more than a single miss versus even level enemies, yet I don't think there's a single person who plays these games who can say they've never missed twice in a row under those conditions.

Another question that needs to be addressed is that of odd streaks, powers missing not on every attack, but instead missing attacks at a much higher than normal ratio for several minutes, or entire missions, then returning to a "normal" hit scenario.

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Then how is it possible to miss 3 or 4 attacks in a row while using Aim and Buildup?

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Aim and Buildup only affect the attacks you make after using them. If you missed with an attack before using Aim/Buildup, that miss is part of the miss streak tracker. Say it fell in the range where 5 misses are allowed. You can then miss the next 4 attacks no matter what their accuracy is - so the result you see is miss-Aim-BU-miss-miss-miss-miss. That's fine as far as the streak breaker is concerned. It's still an unlikely scenario, but it's working as designed.

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Castle said specific the steak breaker only appied to Players. Pet can be considered just an extention of the player. Ergo, I'm pretty sure that 'critters' are pets.

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I can't find him referring to the Streak Breaker not applying to enemies. I can find him, however, stating that :


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Sorry my holey memory did it to me again. It was in a PM pohsyb to da5id that da5id forward to me.

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Okay now based off that chart
How can I make a NEW character, run up to PRISONERS in breakout and miss 10 times in a row?

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To expand on that, why are we seeing streaks at all on characters with accuracy SOs slotted in powers with the base 75% accuracy (in other words, not powers with accuracy penalties)? Regardless of whether accuracy SOs are additive (75% + 33% = 108%) or multiplicative (75% * 1.33 = 100%), there should never be more than a single miss versus even level enemies, yet I don't think there's a single person who plays these games who can say they've never missed twice in a row under those conditions.

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I don't buy the 10-misses-in-breakout example. Proof is needed. Nor do I expect that you are really seeing streaks if your character slotted with SOs is using only the slotted attacks on only mobs that don't lower your to-hit chance through defense or debuff. Either you used an attack with a lower to-hit chance in there somewhere, or you attacked a mob that had some defense and thus the allowed miss streak was longer.

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Another question that needs to be addressed is that of odd streaks, powers missing not on every attack, but instead missing attacks at a much higher than normal ratio for several minutes, or entire missions, then returning to a "normal" hit scenario.

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I begin to see why the Devs don't like posting numbers and explanations. He already answered this. If even one attack misses with a low chance to-hit, you've got a possible streak going. Say you're in a Rikti mission and you miss a drone - those guys have high defense, so it's very possible that even with SOs your to-hit chance is low. Now the streak breaker isn't going to kick in if a good number of your next to-hit rolls come up as misses (exactly how many depends on the drone's defense, but it could be up to 99), even if you're no longer attacking drones. The entire mission could be like this, if you have drones showing up regularly in spawns.

Drones are just one example. There's plenty of mobs with high defense, either from powers they have, from debuffs, or simply because they're higher level and higher class (meaning Lt/Boss/AV).

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I don't buy the 10-misses-in-breakout example. Proof is needed.

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i will see if i can get a install Fraps and get a recording of missing more then 3 times (the max according to the chart) against prisoners, when i get home from work.

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Now the streak breaker isn't going to kick in if a good number of your next to-hit rolls come up as misses

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Doesn't it reset the next time you hit something?

thx wierdbeard, you rock. here's the kicker though: regardless of the streak breaker logic, i still personally see many more streaks than i think i should. before the streak breaker logic should even kick in it's looking like there are a lot more streaks than there should be. i see runs (both hits and misses) of 3 and 4 in a row often (way more often than the probabilities suggest) in engagements on a single white minion. looking at say just 50% final chance-to-hit attacks, the chance of getting noticeable streaks should still be pretty low (a streak of 3--0.125, 4--0.0625, 5--0.03125). but i see streaks like this happen a lot more than those probabilities say they should. is there a dev free to take a closer look with some testing and collect some streak stats? i know i know, there's a good chance (harhar) that a lot of this is perception, and there shouldn't be anything explicitly *creating* streaks, but...ya never know

Thanks for the clarification, Wierdbeard. This is pretty useful to know.

Also, I'd like to inform you that your streakbreaker code is broken. I had at least a 5-or-6-miss string today against an orange Wyvern lieutenant. I went in order down my tray, Mental Blast, Levitate, Mind Probe, TK Thrust, Dominate, Mesmerize. Miss, miss, miss, miss, miss. Nothing would hit him; I think I got up to Mesmerize before anything landed. I am quite certain my accuracy against +1 lieutenants, even with mere training enhancements, is not 30-40%.

I've had other occasions with low level characters where'd I get a similarly continuous string of misses, when your chart says I should at least stop at 3 or 4, depending on enemy class. If I get another 5+ miss string (as I am not in the habit of fighting anything strong enough to drop my base accuracy to 40%), shall I log it as a bug?