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It is a BUG ...
Another bug (also being fixed) is when ....
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OK ... Positron ... WHY isn't this listed on The Known Issue page ?
(along with the MANY other known issues that can only be found by scouring the forums)
Excellent, and very timely! Thank you.
One thing, it may take a bit longer than normal to get this tested thoroughly. Most MM's are lower level (<30), don't have their powers well-slotted with enhancers, and going to Test server won't have any funds with which to slot them up to try differing configurations.
Still, I'll be heading there soon as possible.
-Sandolphan
"When heroes fail, the Angels will save you."
MASTERMIND NUMERIC KEYPAD PET CONTROLS
HAMIDON NUKE RAID GUIDE
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It now has been stated. Positrons post makes it clearly a bug.
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My frustration isn't directed at you, per se, but at the fact that fixing bugs should be pretty black & white: if it's a known bug, fix it. But there seems to be some stalling here. They are concerned that MM's would be too powerful if the enh's affected the upgraded powers. This seems intentional. Why test the fix at all if it's a genuine bug in the game?
Dont you know that some bugs are features in disguise.
Fixing bugs is not always just black and white. Many things are interconnected and they just dont want to make MM superpowerfull then have to nerf us later.
Thanks Pos its nice to hear that this is being worked on.
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yeah right.
like anyone will actually admit to being too powerful in this nerf happy enviroment
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lol...aint that the truth.
But what is supposed to be our power level? Once again there is some vague "vision" or design concept.
Should I be able to 3-shot a yellow? Would that be 3 shots from any minion or 3 volleys from all of them. Should all the minion classes be equal? If Zombies become over powered will Mercs and Bots have to suffer nerfing as well?
Maybe the devs can tell us where they want us to be and we can give feedback on if we are above or below that line
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It now has been stated. Positrons post makes it clearly a bug.
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My frustration isn't directed at you, per se, but at the fact that fixing bugs should be pretty black & white: if it's a known bug, fix it. But there seems to be some stalling here. They are concerned that MM's would be too powerful if the enh's affected the upgraded powers. This seems intentional. Why test the fix at all if it's a genuine bug in the game?
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You know that "beta" thing? Up until the last week or so the assumption from everybody was that enahancements were affecting upgraded powers. That means all the mastermind balancing and analysis up until the last week of October was done using faulty information. I think that's a good reason to test it first, don't you?
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It now has been stated. Positrons post makes it clearly a bug.
[/ QUOTE ]
My frustration isn't directed at you, per se, but at the fact that fixing bugs should be pretty black & white: if it's a known bug, fix it. But there seems to be some stalling here. They are concerned that MM's would be too powerful if the enh's affected the upgraded powers. This seems intentional. Why test the fix at all if it's a genuine bug in the game?
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You know that "beta" thing? Up until the last week or so the assumption from everybody was that enahancements were affecting upgraded powers. That means all the mastermind balancing and analysis up until the last week of October was done using faulty information. I think that's a good reason to test it first, don't you?
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Actually that isnt the case. Looking back, this was brought up many times. The problem was never by one the math people. They never quantified what they were tryng to say and others would chime in that you were supposed to be weaker because your minions went in level. The idea that there was anything wrong was poo-poo'd
Many of us were saying we were too weak. When the bug was exposed it explained why.
That was kinda my point. I think. It's late. Plenty of people said masterminds got weak in the higher levels, but no one, as far as I saw, specifically pinpointed the issue as being tied to enhancements not working right until very late. Certainly the devs don't seem to have known about it until WierdBeard reported it fixed internally, so their balance analysis was done using faulty data.
Personally I expect, at most, a downward adjustment on the base damage of some of the granted abilities. I think we'll still end up doing noticeably better damage than currently in the late game.
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Please play with it on Training Room to see if your Masterminds have become TOO powerful.
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The thing is, how exactly will I know if I'm too powerful? I'm honestly not sure what the baseline is, with Masterminds. It's totally random how quickly my robots can pulp a boss; it takes longer and my bots get trashed if they don't do much knockback to keep the boss at arm's length, but if they and I can keep the boss on his back, it's an easy fight.
Arc #41077 - The Men of State
Arc #48845 - Operation: Dirty Snowball
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Please play with it on Training Room to see if your Masterminds have become TOO powerful.
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The thing is, how exactly will I know if I'm too powerful? I'm honestly not sure what the baseline is, with Masterminds. It's totally random how quickly my robots can pulp a boss; it takes longer and my bots get trashed if they don't do much knockback to keep the boss at arm's length, but if they and I can keep the boss on his back, it's an easy fight.
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lol...aint that the truth.
But what is supposed to be our power level? Once again there is some vague "vision" or design concept.
Should I be able to 3-shot a yellow? Would that be 3 shots from any minion or 3 volleys from all of them. Should all the minion classes be equal? If Zombies become over powered will Mercs and Bots have to suffer nerfing as well?
Maybe the devs can tell us where they want us to be and we can give feedback on if we are above or below that line
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I just want to ditto these remarks. I know for a fact that my version of TOO powerful and Cryptic version of TOO powerful are VERY much different. So just like beta, if you can give me some imperical baselines (IE.. 1 minion should kill even con (to you) in x hits... All minions shouild kill even con (to you) in x hits). This I would be gladly able to do and give as accurate feedback as I can to help Positron (and friends) accomplish what they want.
If not.. well... "Nope!!! Not too powerful to me!!!"
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It now has been stated. Positrons post makes it clearly a bug.
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My frustration isn't directed at you, per se, but at the fact that fixing bugs should be pretty black & white: if it's a known bug, fix it. But there seems to be some stalling here. They are concerned that MM's would be too powerful if the enh's affected the upgraded powers. This seems intentional. Why test the fix at all if it's a genuine bug in the game?
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What stalling? Positron told us about this in BETA, as well as told us that there wasn't enough time to get it fixed and tested during beta to be fixed when the game went live. We found out about it around, oh, 6 or 7 days before beta ended.
Those of us who had been in the beta have been saying this since day 1. That's why it wsa posted on day 1 that this bug existed because we knew it was being looked at and fixed.
And if Positron posting that it is a bug isn't enough to convince you that it is a genuine bug, please quit reading the forums because they obviously will never do you any good.
Kung Ru - 50++ MA/Regen Scrapper
Kalleesta - 50 Necro/Dark MM
Hidden Justice - 44 Kin/Psy Defender
Altaholic
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It is a BUG that the powers that Henchmen gain when you upgrade them are not affected by Enhancements.
Training Room should be getting a version soon where this is fixed.
It was not noticed until it was "too late" to change the final-live build. Please play with it on Training Room to see if your Masterminds have become TOO powerful.
Another bug (also being fixed) is when MM Henchmen can't affect other players in PVP.
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I dont see anychange to damage on test...i dont see any changes to accuracy on test....and since my training doesnt add anything that i can enhance anywise....
I see no differences..
Sorry but the ability to slot jump, defense and range where taken out...sometime during beta.
So for me this fix doesnt seam to do anything....
my ninjas still die in one shot from demolitioners.....any Hero or Monster i run into...if they use an area of effect will kill all my ninjas and my oni instantly...and then they will still chase only me...ignoring the rest of the group i am with and ignoring anything i can manage to summon while i run for my life.
But i am sure...maybe some of the other master mind types players got a small boost....dont know what kind of boost..becasue i think most of those enhancement types where taken out....go figure
Wait i just realized...so I had to edit my post...maybe the last power will add something different.....not really sure....since all my ninjas use what they can be slotted for with out needing the training abilities.
So am not too sure...have to get to level 32 to find out I guess.
He didn't say "Is on test", he said "Will be on test soon". A teeeeensy bit of patience is in order.
Dawncaller - The Circle of Dawn
Too many blasted alts to list, but all on Virtue.
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Training Room should be getting a version soon where this is fixed.
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Training Room should be getting a version soon where this is fixed.
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And for those without reading comprehension skills...
Soon != Now
Kung Ru - 50++ MA/Regen Scrapper
Kalleesta - 50 Necro/Dark MM
Hidden Justice - 44 Kin/Psy Defender
Altaholic
Just tested
with a 15 DO and two 15 TO's my minions spin kick on test was doing 25 damage on live its 20.
FINALLY!!! FREAKIN W000T!!1
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Please play with it on Training Room to see if your Masterminds have become TOO powerful.
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A villain that thinks he's too powerful? Is that possible?
Whether the change is on Test or not, I don't know but what I do know is after I hit lvl 25 my pets seem to be alot more useful. In the same fashion, they are still severly underpowered, I mean now I have 6 henchmen, yeah they SHOULD tear up a red minion 
Once this bug gets fixed we will not be overpowered but maybe survive easier and feel like we contribute more than just quick meatshields.
My Spec Ops are doing attacks that do 0 damage, specifically M30 grenade attack. One is a web grenade, the other a stun/hold. Even though I slot up with 2 Hold enhancers, the duration is still only like 4 seconds....
I believe some pets, like ninjas, did just fine in damage in Beta but robots did poorly at higher lvl. Hopefully we will see these fixes soon, thanks for the info Posi!
"..why o' why didn't I take the BLUE pill?"
I've got a level 27 Robotic/Traps Mastermind. The extra damage and accuracy with SO's is definately noticable. I can definately tear through a group of 7-8 +0/+1 Freakshow minions faster. The speed by which a Freakshow LT was dispatched was jawdropping.
But as to whether we are now too powerful? Hard to gauge. It would help to know what our target base damage is for our collective firepower. But I would say we aren't too powerful. The DPS is definately higher but I don't think it puts MM's that much out of whack from everyone else.
And for Robotics MM, we have a few presents in this patch as well. Pulse Rifle Burst finally has a sound effect. And our Robot have learned how to swim. (But that begs the question, how do they float with all of that amor plating? 
) 
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I seriuosly doubt that. I think in yalls attempt to to make sure we werent "over powered" we might have ended up too weak.
What would be helpful is if you could give MMs a level bump on test. Until we get the level 32 upgrades and slot the powers, we wont really be able to judge IMO.
You cant really base anything off a level 12 fighting Mooks.
Anyway, thanks for the post. I hope this makes it out soon because I cant PVP.
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My MM is already 32.
I can solo Relentless (Invincible) with him (couldn't until i hit 32, however), but it does take a long time to kill stuff, especially bosses, a little extra speed wouldn't hurt any, whether or not it would make me overpowered is hard to say, and whether or not i feel underpowered now is hard to say, feels kind of like my scrapper, but safer, but i kill slower....kinda like a tank should be almost.
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It is a BUG that the powers that Henchmen gain when you upgrade them are not affected by Enhancements.
Training Room should be getting a version soon where this is fixed.
It was not noticed until it was "too late" to change the final-live build. Please play with it on Training Room to see if your Masterminds have become TOO powerful.
Another bug (also being fixed) is when MM Henchmen can't affect other players in PVP.
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Positron, I was in a mission with a team over the weekend where one member got a new bot who could bubble other minions and some of the other team members, but neither of the 2 Brutes received bubbles.
Is this a bug or intentional?
Da Smasher - Brute on Infinity
"It is that balance, the ground between EB and AV, where the PvP struggle should exist. Where a 1v1 becomes a struggle of equals, and 1vMany gives the benefit to the 1."
Freedom: Fireocity, Electro Imp, Gotya
Infinity: Meteor Storm, Mutai Kid, General Bot, Da Smasher
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Positron, I was in a mission with a team over the weekend where one member got a new bot who could bubble other minions and some of the other team members, but neither of the 2 Brutes received bubbles.
Is this a bug or intentional?
Da Smasher - Brute on Infinity
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My Protector Bot bubbles me, my pets, some of my Traps and other MMs pets. Not necessarily in that order. It doesn't, however, bubble any other players. Not just the Brute. Not sure if that's intentional like, say the Prot Bot's heal only working on 'bots, but it probably is. Not sure if it's a stacking issue or role issue or what.
Anyone have an ETA on when this bug will be fixed? Presuming it gets fixed on the next patch, does anyone know when the next patch will be out?
So, right now on live our robots are actually more powerful non-upgraded than upgraded?
I have a level 20 mastermind. I just wonder if this will make a difference until the bug is fixed.
Plainly the green glowing you have has made you favored amongst your fellow man
.
Thanks Posi!
Sgt Liberty - 50 Martial Arts / Super Reflexes
Verdigris Eagle - 50 Archery / Energy Manipulation
Stormeye - 50 Storm Summoning / Electric Blast