Mandatory Mission Entry to PvP Zone
By
BellaStrega,
Posted on: 2005-11-01 11:04 in Everything about PvP
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Hey guys,
I wanted to take a couple minutes to let you know that we aware of this issue. We want people to at least know where the PvP zones are and how to get to them. We dont want players to feel forced into PvP combat. To address this issue we are going to take several steps. Players will be sent to liaisons that will be outside the PvP zones. They will explain that there is mission content available from a contact within the zone but will not, I repeat will not, force you to that contact. If the player wishes to go in the zone and find the contact they are free to do so. Just like a Task/Strike Force contact, PVP contacts dont need to be introduced. As soon as a player clicks on them, they will offer mission content.
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After reading a lot of the "Warburg" threads, it was apparent there were a couple of things that needed to be adjusted. This was one of them, so kudos to the devs for getting it done....
If I may suggest two more things that might help:
1) Make the pvp warning of Warburg different than the pvp warning of Bloody Bay/Siren's Call, since the FFA status makes it different than those other too. People are surprised that they can be attacked by heroes in Warburg, and it's hurting their experience of the zone.
2) Integrate the FFA status of the zone into the story of the zone better. Again, it's a major complaint that the h v. h situation in the zone feels "wrong". Yet, people were okay with Bloody Bay's FFA, because the story of the zone made sense. Just insert something small to satisfy the RP conscience some of us have, that's all. The zone will be better for it.
I think with those two changes added to the big one you listed, and the introduction of more villains, the zone should lose a lot of it's bad rep.
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So I've seen the "I don't want to PvP" vs. "Its a PvP zone, don't enter it if you don't want to" endless back and forth.
I'm going to say my peace on this issue.
I don't particularly like PvP unless I know who I'm playing with. I've seen it lead to too much jack-[censored] behavior in an uncontrolled environment. BUT, if you want to keep it in a separate "You have a choice" zone, that's fine.
I play CoH to get a superhero fix and beat AI villains, follow a storyline, and play co-op with my friends.
Putting PvP in discrete zones made sense to me - if I don't like it, I'll stay out, but if I want to give it a try, there's where I go. That's OK with me.
Until Last Night.
Last night, I was playing, when my Contact showed me a potential mission - that REQUIRED me to go into a PvP zone.
There was no optional other mission...that was the ONLY mission that contact would provide. If I wanted to proceed with that contact in any way I would HAVE to enter a PvP zone.
Very irritated and disappointed, I went to my other contacts.
Ones whom I KNEW had other missions, since I had talked to them previously to see my options.
Surprise, every mission that they had previously been ready to offer me was gone - replaced by THE EXACT SAME PvP ZONE required mission.
I've seen endless PvPers on this board say, if you don't like it, don't enter a PvP zone. Guess what? When one has no choice but to enter a PvP zone, that off the cuff response holds no water.
EVERY contact I have will only give me a PvP zone mission. As someone who does not want to PvP, the PvE contacts are now FORCING me to enter a PvP zone, and I have no contacts that won't.
My ability to choose my style of play is being taken away from me.
So when I cancel my subscription, at least I've made myself perfectly clear. I hope the Devs read this, and give the PvEers back the ability to play the game they choose, and not force a type of unwanted online play upon them.
And that's all there is to it.
Oh, and don't bother flaming me or this post, these are the facts of my experience and my opinion. No browbeating or leet curse words will change them. The purpose is to make them known, and what you do with it from there is your concern, not mine.
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Let me tell you a story. My lvl 20 Bot/Dark MM took a contact in Siren's call. I assumed it was just talk to the guy in the safe zone and leave, but he sent me into the zone for a handful of missions. If you guys been following some of these threads, you'll know that Bot MM's have a bug where their pets do NO damage in PVP. That's right, none. And the greater part of our dmg is from pets. I still had no problem running into the zone to do the missions. Zipping around the zone with a couple of Break-frees and respites with a travel power is FINE. DiDn't get killed once. And if I did die, I know I wouldn't get debt, it would only be a 30 sec inconvience.
Seriously dood, grow a spine. Its a game. There are a variety of hazards in every zone. The devs have gone out of their way to make PVP as painless as possible. Rain on someone elses parade. You ppl really show the meekness of the human race. If you were related to me, I would beat you silly until you grew some balls. Otherwise, I would be ashamed to have such a pansy in my family.
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*sigh I can already feel the maturity of these boards rapidly degrading. I wonder when the Battle.net kiddies will start showing up?
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I think that you just responded to one 
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson
Thanks Manticore! 
I had to ask my SG where Warburg was last night. I can find it from the CoV side of things, but KR was a bit of a reach 
PS: Good for you Mant. 
@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
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Your mission was to talk to a contact in a PVP zone correct? Simply talk to the contact and leave. You don't have to do any missions for them. This is no different from the Hollows. It's mearly an introduction to the zone and that's all.
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I suppose you've never had a mission where you go talk to a person and the mission morphs from "go see this guy" to "go there and do this mission."?
It is a reasonable concern that Manticore has announced a work around for.
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Hey guys,
I wanted to take a couple minutes to let you know that we aware of this issue. We want people to at least know where the PvP zones are and how to get to them. We dont want players to feel forced into PvP combat. To address this issue we are going to take several steps. Players will be sent to liaisons that will be outside the PvP zones. They will explain that there is mission content available from a contact within the zone but will not, I repeat will not, force you to that contact. If the player wishes to go in the zone and find the contact they are free to do so. Just like a Task/Strike Force contact, PVP contacts dont need to be introduced. As soon as a player clicks on them, they will offer mission content.
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I'm sorry, what issue were you talking about here? The having to enter the zone? Oh, I see, lets give you this wonderful new content - which you can't access unless you've respec'd your character into a pvp monster, because there are SG's running around with PVP specific toons beating people down and calling it funny. Yes, this is PVP.
Get off your collective [censored] and realize that this is not being implemented as designed. The PvP means Player versus Player, not PvSG or PvT (Player v Super Group or Player versus Team) just for clarification. Oh, and there is nothing like walking into a zone and getting TP'd to a drone. Yay Debt!
There are some fun aspects to PvP, I'll grant that, but there is too much grief going on now.
Your PvP system does not work! It is a burden to those of us that want to enjoy the new content.
And while I'm venting. . . Statesman, your numbers may not be down, but your players are. You can't get a team in CoH anymore. (unless it is the aforementioned "let's grief squad.")
My suggestion - Let players decide when entering the zone, if they want to PvP. This prevents people from turning it on and off during combat, but will allow them the option upon entering the zone. If they like it, keep it on. If they want to explore the content, they can turn it off. That should not be that difficult to implement.
Currently Playing:
Freedom :
Winter Princess Cold/Ice Def
Princess Nightshade Dark/Dark Def
Dark Hand of Flame Fire/Dark Scrapper
Mind Sniper AR/MM Blaster
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I mean, really. I've never even eaten a baby once.
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Not even once? Aren't you curious?
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*burp* [hints of Shel Silverstein]
They're quite good with honey mustard and just a DAB of horseradish sauce.
(But make sure they're changed first. Otherwise they taste like... well, you know.)
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So I've seen the "I don't want to PvP" vs. "Its a PvP zone, don't enter it if you don't want to" endless back and forth. I'm going to say my peace on this issue.
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Reaction understandable, I've had a few kneejerk reactions of my own.
Not sure why the discussion is continuing, though. The facts seem clear: There was a misunderstanding that upset you, so you mentioned it on the boards, and some people set you straight (some very kindly).
Whether or not the devs should be more explicit, I suppose, is a point that can be brought up (although a little personal effort would have resolved the issue, as well as examining how other zones like the Hollows have worked in the past), but I'm not sure why it's becoming the center of a heated debate.
Is the goal to have fun playing the game and resolve what confusion might hinder it, or has this now become about winning an argument? (open question to the floor)
The latter just isn't much fun.
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Seriously dood, grow a spine. Its a game. There are a variety of hazards in every zone. The devs have gone out of their way to make PVP as painless as possible. Rain on someone elses parade. You ppl really show the meekness of the human race. If you were related to me, I would beat you silly until you grew some balls. Otherwise, I would be ashamed to have such a pansy in my family.
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He brought up a valid point, one that the dev's acknowledged, and are fixing. There is no reason for you to call him names. Some people dislike PvP and resented having to go into PvP Zones.
[color=gold][b][size=5]♪ Sometimes you feel like a Tank, Sometimes you don't! ♪[/size][/color][/b]
[url=http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=114726][color=black][b][size=5]Moon [color=red]Hazard [color=black]Zone![/size][/color][/color][/color][/b][/url]
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The point is that you and everyone should try something before you complain about it.
Its like a 5 year old saying that he doesnt like a food when hes never tried it.
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I don't have to be kicked in the nuts to know that I don't like it. What is it with the gung-ho PvP crowd being so argumentative with those who don't want to play anyway? Am I going to go into the PvP zones? Yes. Does that make everyone that doesn't want to do it a whiny baby for wanting to play the game as it was described, released and subsequently played for over a year? That's like adding in an amendment to the constitution saying, "Oh wait, murder's ok. And all you people that don't want to be shot, quit your whining, you little sissies!"
So all you that want that ammendment, quit whining like sissies about the little sissies.
They should improve the drones' response time, as well as make them give reduced or no debt, because of this crap.
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They should improve the drones' response time, as well as make them give reduced or no debt, because of this crap.
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Debt is apparently going to be removed from police drones.
While it's better being forced to visit a contact outside the zone rather than inside, the issue is being forced to do so before you can deal with the contact.
Personally, I detest PvP, I greatly wish PvP had never entered the game. But, I recognize others differ, and it is here. For the most part, it's easily ignored. Being forced to travel across several zones to talk to one contact I will never ever get a mission from, well, I dislike it. And when every contact offers it as the only option, that is not good.
I would also add the Hollows, Striga, and Croatoa to the list. I hate the Hollows, the story doesn't interest me and the terrain is not friendly to a character without a travel power. Striga I like very much...but if I am talking to a contact, I want a mission, not a command to go see Stephanie Peebles. Croatoa...haven't made up my mind yet. But it's definitely no Striga.
Here's my proposal...at the appropriate time, I am offered the contact for the new zone as a contact. I can accept or reject, and whether I accept or reject I can still get a mission from the contact.
Alternatively...ask us if we want to follow through with that mission. We say no, it goes away. It's not like we're actually giving up anything, we can go see that contact on our own.
(If you do that, please add that to the "Go see the security chief for a mission to hunt in a hazard zone that you'll need a team for or else Jack Emmert will mock you for trying to solo and getting killed" missions.)
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So, does this mean you're doing the same thing to the Hollows and Striga? Being forced to go there is just as not fun as being forced into any other zone you have no interest in going to. If we now have a real choice about entering Warburg can we please have the same consideration for the Hollows and Striga?
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/agree
Let me know when you can actively be trapped within The Hollows and Striga by other players, rather than your own choice.
Dawncaller - The Circle of Dawn
Too many blasted alts to list, but all on Virtue.
You generally don't see teams of bad guys in the Hollows or Striga teleporting characters away from the entrance of the zone and ganking them, so the analogy is a bit suspect.
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So, does this mean you're doing the same thing to the Hollows and Striga? Being forced to go there is just as not fun as being forced into any other zone you have no interest in going to. If we now have a real choice about entering Warburg can we please have the same consideration for the Hollows and Striga?
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you do have the same choice for the hollows and striga. The Security chief in the hollows says that if you want to help him he'd appreciate it. I never take the missions when I first get sent there, but wait until about level eight or nine before venturing into the hollows.
Actually, it would be nice if you are just introduced to the PvP contacts like you are currently introduced to contacts. The only difference being the nice big red text that appears on the current introduction.
Instead of forcing a character to travel to the newly introduced contact, he should be able to just accept them as a new contact. As it is now, that PvP contact (as well as Hollows/Striga/Croatoa) stays in your contact list regardless if you take any of their missions or not.
It never made sense to send a character into the PvP zone just to "learn" about it, and then possibly get ganked while reading the text. If anything, it should have been a contact in Skyway/Steel Canyon/Kings Row standing next to the helicopter/gate.
Cats are independent, they don't listen, they don't come in when you call, they like to stay out all night, and when they're home they like to be left alone and sleep. In other words, every quality that women hate in a man, they love in a cat. - Jay Leno
IIRC a Dev said they will be moving all those talk to the contact missions in PvP zone to right outside the enterance of the zone this should take care of the problem.
The only point for the mission was to show the player where the zone was.
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So, does this mean you're doing the same thing to the Hollows and Striga? Being forced to go there is just as not fun as being forced into any other zone you have no interest in going to. If we now have a real choice about entering Warburg can we please have the same consideration for the Hollows and Striga?
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Not sure I understand this. What if I don't like KR... I can still get a contact there... how would they know I don't like KR? The Hollows, Striga, and now Croatoa are setpiece zones that players should be exposed to; you *always* had the option to not take missions from the contact once you got there.
PvP is different: some people feel very strongly about it, and while I think it's enough that contacts in PvP zones are in "safe" areas, some people don't even want to go there.
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No it's not. As promptly seen in other boards Like this one PvP can happen anywhere there if they are skilled enough. Personally, I'm more in favor of a PvP switch, so if you don't want PvP, you turn it off (outside the PvP zone), so then you can enjoy the new zones (since i6 had no PVE content) without the worry of PvP (basically you become invisible to PC villains, and they become invisible to you, in a sense). THAT's the better solution (or just add content/zones for PvE in the next month).
the last post in this thread was 11/09/05..what the hell?
let's bring it back to life!
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let's bring it back to life!
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i know how! ready?
pvper's are noobs.
lol, pvp
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The point is that you and everyone should try something before you complain about it.
Its like a 5 year old saying that he doesnt like a food when hes never tried it.
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The point, which you obviously missed, is that he's played PvP in other games and doesn't like it. Nor did the mission statements provide any indication you can stand in the safe zone and talk to the contact then bug out. It's ridiculous to presume every player who gets these sorts of mission will understand it's the same case as David Wincott. All the 'suck it up, princess' responses are just as childish.
I don't care one way or another, personally. I have little interest in PvP in CoH/CoV but will certainly explore and play in the PvP zones and understand that that choice has consequences. I deal with it when it happens, just like I do in the other PvP heavy MMO I play. However, there are those who don't want to engage in it at all. Their complaints are just as valid as the points y'all brought up.
*sigh I can already feel the maturity of these boards rapidly degrading. I wonder when the Battle.net kiddies will start showing up?
Too many alts and not enough time.