Constructing Items, Bases, and their costs
By
Amidar,
Posted on: 2005-10-31 13:56 in Base Construction
Hey, don't mean to stir up any trouble here, but it looks like your 1.5mil plot only has seven rooms. You need 8 for a raid base, as you have to have 6 dimensional anchors, and they can't go in the vault or the entrance room. One more room wouldn't cost a ton, but I thought I should point that out.
Add another 100 K for another Workshop. You're still under 2 million by far.
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Okay wiseguy, I guess I'll "enlighten" you a little so that maybe by the grace of God up above you'll stop whining.
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First of all many small SGs can't get a full team of 8 together on a consistent basis.
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There's a simple solution to this problem: if you can't get a team of 8 then get a team of 4 or 5 or 6, etcetera. Be a good SG leader and set some time per week that SG should team together. Make it mandatory if you must, but if you want a raidable base then you need to be more affirmative with your SG. If you can't get a group of at least 4 or 5 then just forget about a raidable base because your SG has more problems then just not being able to afford a base. After all why shouldn't a very small SG take a much longer time to create a raidable base than a larger SG? It makes sense doesn't it?
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Is there anything wrong with this? No, the Devs have NEVER said a small SG should not have an item of power. When/If the Devs say this I will drop my whole argument.
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Like I said, all SG's could have a raidable base, but it's obviously going to take a 1 to 10 man SG much longer than a 75 man SG.
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Second, various people have said that by just doing missions (not counting the PVP zones) they can get about 2.5k per hour. Well 2.5K per hour times 8 people is 20K for the SG per hour...This means 5 hours for this team of 8 to get 100K, not a "couple hours."
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Acutally when you start factoring in multiple mission bonuses, boss and Lt prestige values, and maybe even some AV bonus for the sake of argument, 2.5 K per hour is an understatement. I was farming Dead Scanner with 8 of my SG mates and brought in over 100 K in around 2 hours. Can't fight AV's yet so that it can't factoring into your Prestige farming? Then either find some high level friends or focus more on leveling the characters in your SG before you think about base building. Besides if you try to raid, and go up against an SG of 50's they'll have an advantage over you in slots and enhancements. So yes, you can get quite a few hundred K prestige in a week, you just have to work as a group with a goal in mind. Can't do this? Then work on your leadership skills and authority in your own SG.
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Third a raidable base, which is perfectly reasonable for a small SG to want, costs about 4.5million.
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Wrong, a basic raidable base will cost about 1.5 to 2 million. How do I know? Because I'm just about there and that's how much I've spent.
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Even using your incorrect figure of 200K per week
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Now that I think about it, that may have been an understatement on my part.
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for a small SG the group who want a raidable base will take about 21 weeks. (Note: with the 300K bonus it would take 21 weeks, without more like 22) Now I don't really think 21 weeks is that bad (although I do think it is about 6-8 weeks too long, but I am not arguing over 6-8 weeks), but remember we were using a 200K per week figure that is possibly overstated by a factor of 4...So that 21 weeks becomes 84 weeks, which IS too long.
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If you guys really want a raidable base and have such a small SG, then you're going to have to focus your energies for a while. It can be done in less time than that, but you'll have to sacrifice your time and try and get more people to work together. Can't do that? Then stop complaining. The larger SG's have an advantage in that some of them actually have enough to form full teams to farm for prestige. You can't do that? Well then build up your SG, nothing more to say about that. For a raidable base you have to make sacrifices. If you don't want to do that, that be quiet and settle for a PvE base, plain and simple.
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Fourth, various small SG/VG are saying they are averaging 50K a WEEK. This totally blows out of the water your assumption of 100K in a DAY.
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Well then they're not trying their best and are obviously a casual SG. They're not? Then I could show them a thing or two about farming prestige. The more higher level players in a group, the easier it will be to farm prestige on a massive scale. If you don't have a lot of high level toons, then focus on building up your characters before all others.
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Please go back and read some of the data that has been presented.
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The data is skewed because not all of the smaller SG's on all the servers are represented here. And I don't have enough time in the day to read through every post. I got the jist of the thread in the few posts I did read. You should spend less time complaining on these forums and more time getting in the game and raking in the prestige.
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Your cocky I'm better than you attitude can just take a hike. These folks are describing THEIR EXPERIENCES and discussing them. Just b/c you (In City of Villains from what I gather) have found a way to make 100k in a couple of hours doesn't mean that every SG can accomplish that. "Shared Mission Complete Bonuses" well guess what.. those arn't IN CoH yet.
Your automatically assuming that these folks who are only earning 50k per week arn't teaming together, generally the point of a supergroup IS TO TEAM TOGETHER. More than likely they always are.
Beyond that, I can state for a fact that the Villan Group I run on Protector averages 15-20 people online (having over 60 members) playing during afternoons and into the early morning and all of them working their missions together are making under 100k in a day not a couple of hours. Several of them are already in their high 30's, many are in their mid 20's. These arn't casual gamers, these are folks who know what they're doing and that's all their making. A smaller SG who can just barely form a team of 8 for more than an hour, isn't going to be able to make anything close to that. Its been stated over and over again by numerous people as fact that they arn't earning that.
Just because YOU don't think they're working hard enough or doing things right doesn't make you right. It makes you a jackass.
You obviously can't see the bigger picture and look beyond your own experiences b/c over and over you've stated that if they can't do what your doing their not working hard enough or doing it right. Thats the beauty of MMO's there's never one way to do anything.
I can say with some certainty that I've seen SG's earn 70k in one hour using 13 people, however those SG's have chosen to keep that method quiet and I respect their wishes.
I've also seen methods where a single player can earn as much as 10k per hour, again those players have chosen not to post this info and I'm not going to do it for them.
However all of these methods are not for the average gamer and definitly not for the average SG.
While there will always be ways to earn prestige more quickly in the game they should not be required to be used in order for an SG to build a base in a reasonable amount of time.
I'm sorry but 20 weeks is nothing close to reasonable. It shouldn't take nealry six months to build a raidable base for a small SG.
Your 1.5 - 2 Million Raidable base is a myth...
A Raidable base requires:
6 Dimensional Anchors
Vault
Raid Teleporter
Mission Computer
A Raid Teleporter does NOT fit in the 2x2 room, which means in order to fit a 4x4 room for teleporting you have to sacrifice 2 rooms in your base.
On the basic Plot you can fit 9 2x2 rooms To fit a 4x4 room you have to give up 3 rooms. Now if you can manage to lay things out just right you can use the 150k long control room to use some of the lost space.. However using a 4x4 room leaves you with a max of:
1 4x4
1 1x4
4 2x2 rooms (*MAYBE a 5th 2x2 room)
Out of those 6 or 7 rooms 2 of them can NOT hold a dimensional anchor (The entrance and the Vault)
In order to have enough rooms for dimensional anchors and enough space for a Raid Teleporter YOU MUST Upgrade your plot to the 3.3 million prestige plot.
w00t Radio
Actually, I believe one of the raid teleporters DOES fit in the 2x2 room. I want to say it's the magic one.
Virtue: multiple characters.
CoH/V: Woot! Maybe Fun is to be had once again.
Ack! RUN! Regen is glowing mean & green!
If it reduces you, it's a nerf.
If it buffs the mobs, it's challenge.
They are not the same.
I am speaking from a small "Casual" VG. And we are in SG mode100% of the time. And Group together on missions (even when we alll die 8 times in the mission) and We are making about 50K per week. For 1 mill that will take 20 weeks to get if the current rate stays constant and that doesn't take into account that we will have paid rent 10 times within those 20 weeks.
As I said before I don't mind playing towards a goal, but in gaming world 20 weeks is a very long time before you see any benefits. (Image if it take 20 weeks to get your first power, you be bored with the whole thing and quit)
I think a reasonal time for a "Casual" SG to get a starter base with one function other that looking pretty would be 1 month of playing. Specially since the members would likely be maxed out on salvage by that time.
I don't mind the light at the end of the tunnel as long as I can see the light.
I don't mind That the light is at the end of the tunnel. Just let me be able to see the light.
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Actually, I believe one of the raid teleporters DOES fit in the 2x2 room. I want to say it's the magic one.
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I'd be highly suspect of that. They did a good job making sure all the tech and arcane stuff took the exact same requirements to place.
w00t Radio
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Your cocky I'm better than you attitude can just take a hike. These folks are describing THEIR EXPERIENCES and discussing them. Just b/c you (In City of Villains from what I gather) have found a way to make 100k in a couple of hours doesn't mean that every SG can accomplish that. "Shared Mission Complete Bonuses" well guess what.. those arn't IN CoH yet.
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Sorry to say you're wrong on both counts. First, I am in CoH and play it a lot more than CoV. All my comments come from a CoH perspective. The shared mission bonus is implemented because a friend and myself got the bonus by doing Bloody Bay door missions together. It was his mission and I got a bonus.
I don't think I'm better than anyone, so maybe you should stop misinterpreting what you read. I was offering a counterpoint to the discussion. I was trying to show that it isn't as bad as some people think. My "cockiness" was a direct response to the previous poster's condescending tone.
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Your automatically assuming that these folks who are only earning 50k per week arn't teaming together, generally the point of a supergroup IS TO TEAM TOGETHER. More than likely they always are.
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I agree that a SG should team together as often as possible, or otherwise why are you in an SG? An SG is there to have fun together, teaming and grouping and building your skills together. Personally, I always team with my SG mates and only team with others only under certain circumstances.
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Beyond that, I can state for a fact that the Villan Group I run on Protector averages 15-20 people online (having over 60 members) playing during afternoons and into the early morning and all of them working their missions together are making under 100k in a day not a couple of hours. Several of them are already in their high 30's, many are in their mid 20's. These arn't casual gamers, these are folks who know what they're doing and that's all their making. A smaller SG who can just barely form a team of 8 for more than an hour, isn't going to be able to make anything close to that. Its been stated over and over again by numerous people as fact that they arn't earning that.
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Quid pro quo. It's been states by numerous people that they are earning a lot more than 50 K a week and those are from people that are in smaller, casual SGs.
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Just because YOU don't think they're working hard enough or doing things right doesn't make you right. It makes you a jackass.
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No, it makes you a jackass for hopping in mid conversation and calling me a jackass. Why don't you go hop on your radio show, play some music, and let the adults talk, okay little boy?
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You obviously can't see the bigger picture and look beyond your own experiences b/c over and over you've stated that if they can't do what your doing their not working hard enough or doing it right. Thats the beauty of MMO's there's never one way to do anything.
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Exactly. There's always more than one way. That's why I offered an alternative viewpoint, to show that there are ways to earning a lot more prestige than people are quoting.
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I can say with some certainty that I've seen SG's earn 70k in one hour using 13 people, however those SG's have chosen to keep that method quiet and I respect their wishes.
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Well I don't think things like that should be kept quiet, unless it's an elitist SG. This was done Hami strats back in the day, but some very unselfish people worked hard to find a method for the masses. I think that if someone has a better way to do something, then they should share it, which is what I like to do.
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However all of these methods are not for the average gamer and definitly not for the average SG.
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A new method can be found and other methods can be refined to fit the playstyle of most players, just like Hami raids.
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Your 1.5 - 2 Million Raidable base is a myth...
A Raidable base requires:
6 Dimensional Anchors
Vault
Raid Teleporter
Mission Computer
A Raid Teleporter does NOT fit in the 2x2 room, which means in order to fit a 4x4 room for teleporting you have to sacrifice 2 rooms in your base.
On the basic Plot you can fit 9 2x2 rooms To fit a 4x4 room you have to give up 3 rooms. Now if you can manage to lay things out just right you can use the 150k long control room to use some of the lost space.. However using a 4x4 room leaves you with a max of:
1 4x4
1 1x4
4 2x2 rooms (*MAYBE a 5th 2x2 room)
Out of those 6 or 7 rooms 2 of them can NOT hold a dimensional anchor (The entrance and the Vault)
In order to have enough rooms for dimensional anchors and enough space for a Raid Teleporter YOU MUST Upgrade your plot to the 3.3 million prestige plot.
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Some have fit the raid teleporter in a 2 x 2 room. Until it is proven impossible, you can raid on a basic plot.
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I am speaking from a small "Casual" VG. And we are in SG mode100% of the time. And Group together on missions (even when we alll die 8 times in the mission) and We are making about 50K per week. For 1 mill that will take 20 weeks to get if the current rate stays constant and that doesn't take into account that we will have paid rent 10 times within those 20 weeks.
As I said before I don't mind playing towards a goal, but in gaming world 20 weeks is a very long time before you see any benefits. (Image if it take 20 weeks to get your first power, you be bored with the whole thing and quit)
I think a reasonal time for a "Casual" SG to get a starter base with one function other that looking pretty would be 1 month of playing. Specially since the members would likely be maxed out on salvage by that time.
I don't mind the light at the end of the tunnel as long as I can see the light.
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I hear you on that. I know several people who it took over a year to get their first 50 because of their casual gaming styles. Should we cry to the devs to make the XP gain and leveling easier because it takes some players 52 weeks to get their first 50 and unlock the epic archetypes? Some things take time depending on your lifestyle. It's the way of the world.
Also a raidable base is a far cry from a functional one. A functional one costs about half the price of a raidable one or less depending on what you want to do. If you want to just craft then it will cost you 750 K for a basic base with crafting. Deduct your membership prestige bonus from that and the price can drop all the way to 450 K.
If a casual SG could get a Raiding Base built in a month don't you think a large SG would have everything they could possible have in about 3 months. That wouldn't be acceptable either. If you want a decent way to build a Base quickly take your SG and hunt Hot Spots in Siren's Call. One member of my SG did that for several days in a row and still has more Prestige than anyone else in the SG, including me 
Which is about 70K, btw
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If a casual SG could get a Raiding Base built in a month don't you think a large SG would have everything they could possible have in about 3 months. That wouldn't be acceptable either. If you want a decent way to build a Base quickly take your SG and hunt Hot Spots in Siren's Call. One member of my SG did that for several days in a row and still has more Prestige than anyone else in the SG, including me
Which is about 70K, btw
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No Warp, it would take much longer. The largest land plot is 137 MILLION Prestige just for the plot of land. For a small SG to earn 5 million in a month... would mean a large SG would be earning around 20 million in a month.. maybe 40 if they're REALLY good and really working it.
At that point your still looking at over 7 months just to affford that really really HUGE base plot. Now true in 20 million an SG can have a pretty amazing base but the Large SG's are going to want to be able to get those larger plots of land for more options and to make their bases more difficult to raid. Your still looking at a very long time before an SG would get to max things out.
Not to mention a large SG earning 20 milllion a month would allow the crafting to be opened up to more sg members b/c there's be prestige around to build things at will instead of buildling something and then having an arugement erupt b/c all the prestige wsa used up.
w00t Radio
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Actually, I believe one of the raid teleporters DOES fit in the 2x2 room. I want to say it's the magic one.
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This was correct in beta, and last time I checked. The Arcane raid teleporter will fit in a 2x2 teleport room (depends somewhat on placement of doorways).
@Mindshadow
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Actually, I believe one of the raid teleporters DOES fit in the 2x2 room. I want to say it's the magic one.
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This was correct in beta, and last time I checked. The Arcane raid teleporter will fit in a 2x2 teleport room (depends somewhat on placement of doorways).
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last i heard, that was considered a bug (ie arcane and tech are supposed to take up the same space). and anyone who does it is considered an exploiter and will be banned, everyone in their sg banned, and their children banned from ever playing coh/cov or any of its decendants in perpetuity, so help me god.
Personally I think the smaller the base the easier it will be to defend. The bigger the plot, the more spread out everyone is. Now you could say the more rooms the harder it will be to find the anchors, but over that same area, your personnel will be spread, unless you could possibly get most of the SG on for the raid.
The basic plot with well placed defenses will be much easier to defend, especially if you have reclaimators and an auto-doc/insp dispenser.
Thats just too much free Prestige floating around. Surely we can all see that. There's no way that in less than one year any SG should be able to MAX OUT their base. Barring of course some extremely dedicated Groups. I'm sure there will be at least one. There always is...
And they will say "See we did it. So Suck it Up and quit your crying about how hard it is"
I don't mind That the light is at the end of the tunnel. Just let me be able to see the light.
Wow.. I was just number crunching a bit..
For a group of 10 to earn 5 million Prestige in one month each person would need to play 24 hours a day earning 694 Prestige per hour.
Well lets drop this down to a more casual level... lets say the average player plays 4 hours a day. Not hard to do and many of us play much more.
At 4 hours a day each person would need to earn 4166 Prestige per hour. That is about DOUBLE what the average player can earn just doing missions right now. We've all been tossing around the 2 to 2.5k number.
So, if they were to double the amount of prestige per kill so that a casual player is earning 4k per hour that means:
An SG of 10 players all playing 4 hours a day for 30 days will earn 5 million Prestige in one month
An SG of 75 players all playing 4 hours a day for 30 days will earn 37.5 Million in one month.
37.5 Million will allow a base to be built on the smalllest "Secure" location with light base defenses and all the amenities that an SG would want with enough left for crafters to have fun crafting and SG's could start shooting for the larger more complex base layouts over a time period of 3 to 8 months.
Doubling the average prestige income will also require a modification to the tax rates, however I wouldn't touch the tax rate on the SG base itself.. just the Prestige in the bank rate. That way if an SG is investing all their Prestige and not just bankrolling a huge amount they'll get a better return on their earnings.
Before anyone goes off screaming about how many SG's have gamers playing more than 4 hours a day, think about how many players are actually on on the average in those SG's. The largest SG's still rarely break 50 people on for more than 3 or 4 hours a day. The rest of the time its 15-20 people playing for 5 or 6 hours sometimes more depending on the day of the week and if they're holding down a full time job.
So lets complicate this up a bit:
Lets say a large SG has 50 people playing for 3-4 hours a day.
Out of those 50, 20 of them actually play for 6 hours a day.
Thats 30 people at 4 hours
Thats 20 people at 6 hours
The 30 People in one day earn: 480,000 Prestige
The 20 People in one day earn: 320,000 Prestige
Thats a total of 800,000 Prestige per day for the average Large SG.
Over the course of a month that's 24 Million.
Thats not an extreme amount. Infact that would leave players not having to worry about weather or not they can place items they craft in bases.. it would leave SG's not having to worry if their reactor gets ganked during a raid and doesn't regenerate afterwards, b/c most likely they'll be able to afford to replace it.
In addition, an SG who does NOT build a base and waits to build one after they get enough to afford the largest plot of land would take nearly six months to afford just the plot of land. They would then take at least 2 more months buying and placing rooms and equipment.
AN Sg who's actively using their base and participating in crafint, raids, etc would take somewhat longer b/c of rent, lost items from raids, etc.
Does that sound unreasonable to anyone?
w00t Radio
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And they will say "See we did it. So Suck it Up and quit your crying about how hard it is"
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Lol. I guess they would just want it to say they got it. I can't see them getting enough SG members on at once to defend it thoroughly. Even if they could afford the biggest plot, they would have to keep up that rate just to afford rent. Plus they would need a lot of prestige to purchase all the stuff to go into the rooms.
This just adds credence to the argument that they should change the way the SG cap works.
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Thats just too much free Prestige floating around. Surely we can all see that. There's no way that in less than one year any SG should be able to MAX OUT their base. Barring of course some extremely dedicated Groups. I'm sure there will be at least one. There always is...
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When you factor in the cost of replacing lost items from raids, crafting, and rent its really not that much free prestige floating around.
w00t Radio
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I am speaking from a small "Casual" VG. And we are in SG mode100% of the time. And Group together on missions (even when we alll die 8 times in the mission) and We are making about 50K per week. For 1 mill that will take 20 weeks to get if the current rate stays constant and that doesn't take into account that we will have paid rent 10 times within those 20 weeks.
As I said before I don't mind playing towards a goal, but in gaming world 20 weeks is a very long time before you see any benefits. (Image if it take 20 weeks to get your first power, you be bored with the whole thing and quit)
I think a reasonal time for a "Casual" SG to get a starter base with one function other that looking pretty would be 1 month of playing. Specially since the members would likely be maxed out on salvage by that time.
I don't mind the light at the end of the tunnel as long as I can see the light.
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I hear you on that. I know several people who it took over a year to get their first 50 because of their casual gaming styles. Should we cry to the devs to make the XP gain and leveling easier because it takes some players 52 weeks to get their first 50 and unlock the epic archetypes? Some things take time depending on your lifestyle. It's the way of the world.
Also a raidable base is a far cry from a functional one. A functional one costs about half the price of a raidable one or less depending on what you want to do. If you want to just craft then it will cost you 750 K for a basic base with crafting. Deduct your membership prestige bonus from that and the price can drop all the way to 450 K.
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It took me 9 months to get my first lvl 50. I did not mind it. nor did I expect to take less than that for my style of play. But the difference was that I got something as I took that long to show progress I got new powers at new lvls instead of waiting until lvl 50 to get them.
I don't mind That the light is at the end of the tunnel. Just let me be able to see the light.
Yeah. But you could get some short term goals in mind instead of long term ones which would help the time pass quicker. For instance, you're first goal could be to get a power room and mainframe. Once you get that, you have completely a goal and can feel pretty good about that. The next goal could be Energy Room and Basic Generator. Finishing that goal would put you at the hump and the rest would be downhill from there. You could go with a workshop and worktable or a Medical Room and reclaimator or a Transport room and telepad 
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That's where you are wrong. You do not belong to a small, casual SG, so therefore no one should be hearing your opinion in this discussion. I belong to several SG's both large and small, therefore I can speak from experience.
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Ah, yes you have seen it all and done it all, you are the only person who can give an opinion on this, I have not been in a small SG so I can not speak of them. Yes, I see now that it is totally impossible for me to understand the dynamics of a small SG. I see now that I can not possibly grasp a small SG because I have never been in one...Just like I can never order coffee in CA because I have never been there, even though I have ordered it in other places...Just like I can not drive in OR because I have never driven there, even though I have driven in other places. Saying I can't speak about a small SG makes just about as much sense as saying I can't order coffee in CA because I have never done it before.
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Energy Room (2 x 2) = 150,000
Basic Generator (1000 Power) = 225,000
Control Room (2 x 2) = 100,000
Mainframe = 150,000
Workshop x 2 = 200,000
Basic Worktable = 25,000
Mission Computer = 75,000
Transport Room = 150,000
Vault Room = 250,000
Total so far = 1.325 million
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I appreciate you finally posting these. Now we can see that our differences of opinion lie in the fact that I believe you need to upgrade plots and you do not. We needn't argue about this anymore, one of us is right and one is wrong. Can anyone shed more light on this? Do you or do you not need to upgrade plots? There are dissenting opinions throughout all threads on this.
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You don't have to farm. Just run missions as a group like you would under normal circumstances but do it in SG mode. Or are you saying that an SG shouldn't be forced to group together? No they shouldn't but that's why they formed an SG to begin with right, to group and have fun together?
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Here is where you ignorance shines through the most. I have said that I am going off of what a lot of people are saying on these boards. That they make 2.5K per hour doing missions as normal in SG mode. You are saying that they can make more than 2.5k(per person) per hour by FARMING. The only example you gave on how to get more was a FARMING example. Please give another example for these small SGs to follow. You seem to be an expert, enlighten them with an example other than farming. Right now I am inclined to believe the numerous people who have posted a 2.5k per hour figure over the figure you presented. Also, nowhere did I say that SG shouldn't group together, you are grasping at straws there. I am not even sure why you put that rhetorical question (I assume it is rhetorical) in there.
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The figure depends on the group. Certains SG's and player combinations are naturally going to be more efficient killing and completing missions than others. Get some real data then come back and talk, because everytime you can show me this number, I'll come back and show you a better one.
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Your ignorance and having not read the other threads is showing again...My numbers are taken from numerous posts and are REAL data. In fact they are averages from numerous posts throughout these threads. It is your data that is only based on your experiences. Of course you can show me a better figure. I can also show a worse figure at will if I am just going to use data that I made up myself. But instead I took the time and put in the effort to find out what people were getting and I did some math based on that. You on the other hand, did some FARMING missions and tried to use those figures.
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Everything you say is assinine because you're arguing just to argue without actually speaking from experience. I love people who are on top of the world and try to speak for the little man. Now THAT is friggin hilarious.
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Again you are showing more ignorance. I am not arguing just to argue. If I was doing that my retorts would be far shorter and I would not have taken the time to do a little data-mining on the boards. It is actually you who appear to be arguing for the sake of arguing. You have no REAL data, yet accuse me of not having any. You make claims that a person can only speak from experience on these matters which is assine in itself (SEE buying coffee in CA example).
Also, I have never claimed to be on top of the world, nor have I claimed to be speaking FOR the little man. They speak for themselves and I speak WITH them. There are tons of posts (again, I doubt you read them) from the little man supporting the figures I show and there are tons of posts from the little man saying how they view the base system. I do not speak FOR them, but I aggree WITH them. And I will argue their case WITH them.
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Ah, yes you have seen it all and done it all, you are the only person who can give an opinion on this, I have not been in a small SG so I can not speak of them. Yes, I see now that it is totally impossible for me to understand the dynamics of a small SG. I see now that I can not possibly grasp a small SG because I have never been in one...Just like I can never order coffee in CA because I have never been there, even though I have ordered it in other places...Just like I can not drive in OR because I have never driven there, even though I have driven in other places. Saying I can't speak about a small SG makes just about as much sense as saying I can't order coffee in CA because I have never done it before.
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No, but you can't complain about the prices of coffee in CA if you don't live there and have to put up with it every day. For the same reason, your trying to advocate for something that you only know of vicariously. Therefore you're arguing for no reason.
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I appreciate you finally posting these. Now we can see that our differences of opinion lie in the fact that I believe you need to upgrade plots and you do not. We needn't argue about this anymore, one of us is right and one is wrong. Can anyone shed more light on this? Do you or do you not need to upgrade plots? There are dissenting opinions throughout all threads on this.
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Yes, you are wrong. Thank you for finally admitting it. You can fit 9 rooms on a basic plot. 2 of those rooms can't hold anchors, so you have 7 rooms that can. A raid teleporter can be placed in a small Transport Room (2 x 2) with careful placing and deletion of doorways, etc. This has been argued in the above posts. That would be the only reason why you couldn't raid on a basic plot.
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Here is where you ignorance shines through the most. I have said that I am going off of what a lot of people are saying on these boards. That they make 2.5K per hour doing missions as normal in SG mode. You are saying that they can make more than 2.5k(per person) per hour by FARMING. The only example you gave on how to get more was a FARMING example. Please give another example for these small SGs to follow. You seem to be an expert, enlighten them with an example other than farming. Right now I am inclined to believe the numerous people who have posted a 2.5k per hour figure over the figure you presented. Also, nowhere did I say that SG shouldn't group together, you are grasping at straws there. I am not even sure why you put that rhetorical question (I assume it is rhetorical) in there.
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You don't have to farm, just keep running missions in SG mode. You want an example? Bloody Bay missions. PvP zones give 20% boost to prestige earnings. These missions are simple and quick to finish. There are timed, but are infinitely repeatable. There are various ways in which a group can do this missions, either a hard way or an easy way. You wanted an example, you got one. For every point there is a counterpoint. Quid pro quo. For every time you say people can only earn this much per hour, I can show you how they can earn this much per hour. And you know what's the best? The fact that I have done this as well as others. I have experience in this, you do not.
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Your ignorance and having not read the other threads is showing again...My numbers are taken from numerous posts and are REAL data. In fact they are averages from numerous posts throughout these threads. It is your data that is only based on your experiences. Of course you can show me a better figure. I can also show a worse figure at will if I am just going to use data that I made up myself. But instead I took the time and put in the effort to find out what people were getting and I did some math based on that. You on the other hand, did some FARMING missions and tried to use those figures.
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You should take the time and actually do missions yourself and experiement yourself, just like other and I have done. Your time would be better spent trying to help these people out by finding alternatives instead of being an idiot in a forum and posting for the sake of hearing yourself talk.
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Again you are showing more ignorance. I am not arguing just to argue. If I was doing that my retorts would be far shorter and I would not have taken the time to do a little data-mining on the boards. It is actually you who appear to be arguing for the sake of arguing. You have no REAL data, yet accuse me of not having any. You make claims that a person can only speak from experience on these matters which is assine in itself (SEE buying coffee in CA example).
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Actually I do have real data, because I have gained prestige. It's not that hard to do really. You are the one who has no real data. You just read through forums all day and decide to advocate for situations you have never experienced yourself. Unfortunately I don't have enough online data space to copy of full nights worth of a demo file for you to look at. Like I said earlier, go start a small SG and work at ways to make things better instead of crying NERF to the devs at every chance you get.
There have been posts after posts of people saying that affording bases are not as bad as you think. There are new CoV VG's that have a better base than established, large CoH SG's. But maybe you fail to read these posts and only read the ones that support your cause?
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Also, I have never claimed to be on top of the world, nor have I claimed to be speaking FOR the little man. They speak for themselves and I speak WITH them. There are tons of posts (again, I doubt you read them) from the little man supporting the figures I show and there are tons of posts from the little man saying how they view the base system. I do not speak FOR them, but I aggree WITH them. And I will argue their case WITH them.
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Good, go out there and reproduce the situations, then like a true lawyer or scientist you can say that you have yourself shown objectively that the base system is flawed. But of course you'd have to compete with those SG's and VG's who will prove you wrong time and time again with objective evidence. I've tested and found better ways to earn prestige, you haven't. You just whine post after post about ridiculous assumptions.
Start your own SG, build your own base, then come back and we'll talk about this.
*claps* Well said friend.. WELL SAID!
As a side note:
If you have a tech base, you can infact use an arcane raid teleporter. Its aux items that can be combined with the opposing types main item. Tech power/control will power an arcane teleporter.
Arcane teleporters fit relatively easier in the basic room.
Its only a matter of days before my villian group has established a pvp capable base on the smaller plot.
Dont get me wrong though, I would absolutely love to get a bigger plot for better rooms, and as soon as we finish our construction on the current plot, it will be time to start saving.
Man I love base building.. best thing ever implemented.
Yes but some of us perfer not to use exploits to gain the extra prestige. Nor are we asking to have the bases handed to us. What we are asking is a realistc time frame to obtain basic functionality within normal play means.
Edit--- Or have a Dev explain the Visions of Bases. What is the minimum SG that can get a functional base in the design time fram they have set for the bases. (averge time /averge play/averge SG size)
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I don't mind That the light is at the end of the tunnel. Just let me be able to see the light.
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Task Forces and Trials are also touted as available to everyone. Ever tried to recruit for The Cavern of Transcendence? Not much fun unless you have a very dedicated group. I'd have to say that must be one of the rarest badges still in circulation. Many aspects of this and any MMORPG require many people to participate in. If it were readily and easily available to casual players then why be more dedicated? Different people have different levels of participation.
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I'd have to agree with Warp there. Why don't you go and complain about how the Cavern Trial isn't for the Casual player and cry Nerf to it? It makes sense doesn't it? It follows the logic you've been preaching. The casual SG may not be able to finish it therefore we should all complain right? Certain things in any game require effort and dedication to. The game can be enjoyed by the casual gamer, it may just take them slightly longer to reach a goal. And why not? They're not putting as much effort as those who play regularly, why should a casual player be rewarded equally?