Constructing Items, Bases, and their costs
By
Amidar,
Posted on: 2005-10-31 13:56 in Base Construction
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I would consider a functional base to be one with A working Worktable or a running teleporter or an infirmary. True it may not do everything you'd want it to do but it will DO something. Those of with reasonable expectations have already built their basic bases. One would think that this fact would have silenced the outcries of "Make it cheaper!" and "I'll NEVER be able to afford a base"
Apparently facts and dedication really don't mean much.
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I think a lot of those that have are Established SG with High level Characters that also have a lot of Inf to spend on prestige.
The newly established SG/VG that don't have High level characters to rely on I bet are having a hard time getting anything Functional.
My VG are all under 15 in level and are just havng problems getting enough InF to pay for thier Enhancements much less using it for prestige.
And we are averging 50K a week now so to earn 1 mill for the minimum functional base that has been presented in previous posts would take 20 weeks at our current rate and membership
I don't mind That the light is at the end of the tunnel. Just let me be able to see the light.
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I would consider a functional base to be one with A working Worktable or a running teleporter or an infirmary. True it may not do everything you'd want it to do but it will DO something. Those of with reasonable expectations have already built their basic bases. One would think that this fact would have silenced the outcries of "Make it cheaper!" and "I'll NEVER be able to afford a base"
Apparently facts and dedication really don't mean much.
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So what you are saying is it is unreasonable for a small SG to want a raidable base?? Why is it unreasonable for a person in a small SG to want to have an item of power?? Heck it is right on the box that you can get an item of power. It is right in the COV primer for bases telling you "that's all you need" to have for a base raid. Nothing NCSoft has put out has ever said a small SG should not have an item of power. If it did then maybe you dimwits that say they shouldn't would have a leg to stand on. Nothing NCSoft or the Devs have ever said would indicate that it is unreasonable for a small SG to want an item of power. Just because someone doesn't have the same expectations as you doesn't mean their expectations are unreasonable.
They advertised the heck out of items of power and raids for said items of powers, but yet a small SG really has little chance. And yes this little chance has been shown over and over again using math.
Small SG gets about 50K per week...Raidable base costs like 4million, heck let's say 3 million. ...That is 60 weeks for that small SG to be able to get an item of power...
How dedicated do you want these people to be before their cries for lower prices are unreasonable?? Apparently you want them to wait longer than 60 weeks.
And let's not even get started about how an item of power should not be held by a small SG. The mission to get one requires like 4 people. If a small SG wasn't meant to have one then the mission to get one would require more than 4 people....
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I think a lot of those that have are Established SG with High level Characters that also have a lot of Inf to spend on prestige.
The newly established SG/VG that don't have High level characters to rely on I bet are having a hard time getting anything Functional.
My VG are all under 15 in level and are just havng problems getting enough InF to pay for thier Enhancements much less using it for prestige.
And we are averging 50K a week now so to earn 1 mill for the minimum functional base that has been presented in previous posts would take 20 weeks at our current rate and membership
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This is a pretty similar situation to what my villain group is experiencing. We have about 25 members right now (actual players are closer to 18 given some alts) and have about half of us in the 14 to 20 range and the other half in the 2 to 10 level range.
All of us in the 14 to 20 range are having a hard time getting our DOs. We have no level 50s to give us a million infamy here and there. We are all playing in super group mode to build our base faster, and all the while suffering somewhat with less DOs.
We're averaging about 50K right now too, so we'll be joining everyone else in about 20 weeks. I was hoping to accomplish this in about half that time, but giving how dedicated our people are already, I know we're not going to get much more production out of anybody before it starts becoming a second job. 
I already play almost every night, to the woes of my family, and all my villains are in the same group, so whoever I play is earning prestige for our group. At least we followed another poster's suggestion on another thread some time ago (sorry I forgot who that was) and made our 2-room base filled with decorative stuff so at least it's somewhere to go.
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This is a pretty similar situation to what my villain group is experiencing. We have about 25 members right now (actual players are closer to 18 given some alts) and have about half of us in the 14 to 20 range and the other half in the 2 to 10 level range.
All of us in the 14 to 20 range are having a hard time getting our DOs. We have no level 50s to give us a million infamy here and there. We are all playing in super group mode to build our base faster, and all the while suffering somewhat with less DOs.
We're averaging about 50K right now too, so we'll be joining everyone else in about 20 weeks. I was hoping to accomplish this in about half that time, but giving how dedicated our people are already, I know we're not going to get much more production out of anybody before it starts becoming a second job.
I already play almost every night, to the woes of my family, and all my villains are in the same group, so whoever I play is earning prestige for our group. At least we followed another poster's suggestion on another thread some time ago (sorry I forgot who that was) and made our 2-room base filled with decorative stuff so at least it's somewhere to go.
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This is the exact situation that irks me the most.
If this person in this group wants to have an item of power, which is certainly not unreasonable given the fact that it was advertised as such and not a single Dev has said otherwise, they will have to wait 60 weeks.
60 weeks is too long. I am not saying they should have it yesterday, I am saying that 60 weeks is too long. It should be no more than like 16 weeks (maybe 12), which is basically 4 months.
And keep in mind this is for a base that can hold an item of power. I am not even getting into the idea that they should at least have a chance to defend it with turrets and what nots, which will add extra cost to the base.
I am also not even getting to the idea that if this SG/VG can earn the salvage to build a generator in 2 days then why does it take around 30 weeks (1.5million prestige placing cost @ 50k per week) to place.
For those complaining about Small SG's:
You must have around 8 membes right? Well, your best bet would be to form a full team of SG members in SG mode and just start cranking out missions. After a couple of hours of this you should have at least 100 K. A couple of days of this per week and after a couple of weeks you should have enough prestige to build the base you want. Grab a couple more members to make use of that 20 K Prestige Bonus up to 15 members 
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For those complaining about Small SG's:
You must have around 8 membes right? Well, your best bet would be to form a full team of SG members in SG mode and just start cranking out missions. After a couple of hours of this you should have at least 100 K. A couple of days of this per week and after a couple of weeks you should have enough prestige to build the base you want. Grab a couple more members to make use of that 20 K Prestige Bonus up to 15 members
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I don't think you get the point of the complaining. And I am not even sure you read half the posts here. Your assumptions are so out of whack that I am not sure why I am even responding. But I will anyway:
First of all many small SGs can't get a full team of 8 together on a consistent basis. Is there anything wrong with this? No, the Devs have NEVER said a small SG should not have an item of power. When/If the Devs say this I will drop my whole argument.
Second, various people have said that by just doing missions (not counting the PVP zones) they can get about 2.5k per hour. Well 2.5K per hour times 8 people is 20K for the SG per hour...This means 5 hours for this team of 8 to get 100K, not a "couple hours."
Third a raidable base, which is perfectly reasonable for a small SG to want, costs about 4.5million. Even using your incorrect figure of 200K per week for a small SG the group who want a raidable base will take about 21 weeks. (Note: with the 300K bonus it would take 21 weeks, without more like 22) Now I don't really think 21 weeks is that bad (although I do think it is about 6-8 weeks too long, but I am not arguing over 6-8 weeks), but remember we were using a 200K per week figure that is possibly overstated by a factor of 4...So that 21 weeks becomes 84 weeks, which IS too long.
Fourth, various small SG/VG are saying they are averaging 50K a WEEK. This totally blows out of the water your assumption of 100K in a DAY.
Please go back and read some of the data that has been presented. If you feel that data is wrong, or have better ways for these people to get prestige then please by all means enlighten them. However, as long as these small SGs are coming out and saying that all they can reasonably do is 50K per WEEK then the base pricing structure needs revisited, or a DEV needs to come out and say that raidable bases are not intented for small SGs.
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For those complaining about Small SG's:
You must have around 8 membes right? Well, your best bet would be to form a full team of SG members in SG mode and just start cranking out missions. After a couple of hours of this you should have at least 100 K. A couple of days of this per week and after a couple of weeks you should have enough prestige to build the base you want. Grab a couple more members to make use of that 20 K Prestige Bonus up to 15 members
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Were you qouting the person who responded to my post, my post, or the person whose post I was responding to? I don't see an 8 in there at all (okay, to be fair, I did say my actual number of players is 18, so I guess there is an 8 in there). Where did you pull the number 8 from?
Now true I could go around grabbing up all those people that aren't in super groups and add them to my roster to get the bonus (oh wait, the bonus tops off at 15 members, and I have 18). Ok, that part was shot down, but I could still add more members (oh wait, everybody else and their freaking henchmen are recruiting for villain groups too. Why? Because of the new base features mostly).
Now this isn't a rant that I can't find members, because I can. I've nearly doubled the size of my hero group as far as active players go. Truthfully though, I don't WANT an uber base right now, or really even ever. Wait, did I say that? Yes I did. I don't want an uber base, but merely one that can allow me to do something with all this salvage and maybe get some super group missions from that spiffy computer I hear about before the end of the year would be nice. As it stands now, no way that's happening (notice I didn't even include a hospital or teleport options in what I would like).
I would like to see a lower cost "starter" base (no, I don't consider the entry room a starter base) that's achievable in 4 to 6 weeks for us smaller groups. Let the grind for those who truly want the uber bases be that. Those 75 memeber super groups that earn a massive PvP base with all the bells and whistles and multiple items of power can brag, and they deserve to. Great job for you guys (no sarcasm). I just want my dedicated players who have stuck with me to have something to have fun in too.
Okay wiseguy, I guess I'll "enlighten" you a little so that maybe by the grace of God up above you'll stop whining.
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First of all many small SGs can't get a full team of 8 together on a consistent basis.
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There's a simple solution to this problem: if you can't get a team of 8 then get a team of 4 or 5 or 6, etcetera. Be a good SG leader and set some time per week that SG should team together. Make it mandatory if you must, but if you want a raidable base then you need to be more affirmative with your SG. If you can't get a group of at least 4 or 5 then just forget about a raidable base because your SG has more problems then just not being able to afford a base. After all why shouldn't a very small SG take a much longer time to create a raidable base than a larger SG? It makes sense doesn't it?
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Is there anything wrong with this? No, the Devs have NEVER said a small SG should not have an item of power. When/If the Devs say this I will drop my whole argument.
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Like I said, all SG's could have a raidable base, but it's obviously going to take a 1 to 10 man SG much longer than a 75 man SG.
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Second, various people have said that by just doing missions (not counting the PVP zones) they can get about 2.5k per hour. Well 2.5K per hour times 8 people is 20K for the SG per hour...This means 5 hours for this team of 8 to get 100K, not a "couple hours."
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Acutally when you start factoring in multiple mission bonuses, boss and Lt prestige values, and maybe even some AV bonus for the sake of argument, 2.5 K per hour is an understatement. I was farming Dead Scanner with 8 of my SG mates and brought in over 100 K in around 2 hours. Can't fight AV's yet so that it can't factoring into your Prestige farming? Then either find some high level friends or focus more on leveling the characters in your SG before you think about base building. Besides if you try to raid, and go up against an SG of 50's they'll have an advantage over you in slots and enhancements. So yes, you can get quite a few hundred K prestige in a week, you just have to work as a group with a goal in mind. Can't do this? Then work on your leadership skills and authority in your own SG.
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Third a raidable base, which is perfectly reasonable for a small SG to want, costs about 4.5million.
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Wrong, a basic raidable base will cost about 1.5 to 2 million. How do I know? Because I'm just about there and that's how much I've spent.
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Even using your incorrect figure of 200K per week
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Now that I think about it, that may have been an understatement on my part.
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for a small SG the group who want a raidable base will take about 21 weeks. (Note: with the 300K bonus it would take 21 weeks, without more like 22) Now I don't really think 21 weeks is that bad (although I do think it is about 6-8 weeks too long, but I am not arguing over 6-8 weeks), but remember we were using a 200K per week figure that is possibly overstated by a factor of 4...So that 21 weeks becomes 84 weeks, which IS too long.
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If you guys really want a raidable base and have such a small SG, then you're going to have to focus your energies for a while. It can be done in less time than that, but you'll have to sacrifice your time and try and get more people to work together. Can't do that? Then stop complaining. The larger SG's have an advantage in that some of them actually have enough to form full teams to farm for prestige. You can't do that? Well then build up your SG, nothing more to say about that. For a raidable base you have to make sacrifices. If you don't want to do that, that be quiet and settle for a PvE base, plain and simple.
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Fourth, various small SG/VG are saying they are averaging 50K a WEEK. This totally blows out of the water your assumption of 100K in a DAY.
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Well then they're not trying their best and are obviously a casual SG. They're not? Then I could show them a thing or two about farming prestige. The more higher level players in a group, the easier it will be to farm prestige on a massive scale. If you don't have a lot of high level toons, then focus on building up your characters before all others.
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Please go back and read some of the data that has been presented.
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The data is skewed because not all of the smaller SG's on all the servers are represented here. And I don't have enough time in the day to read through every post. I got the jist of the thread in the few posts I did read. You should spend less time complaining on these forums and more time getting in the game and raking in the prestige.
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Now this isn't a rant that I can't find members, because I can. I've nearly doubled the size of my hero group as far as active players go. Truthfully though, I don't WANT an uber base right now, or really even ever. Wait, did I say that? Yes I did. I don't want an uber base, but merely one that can allow me to do something with all this salvage and maybe get some super group missions from that spiffy computer I hear about before the end of the year would be nice. As it stands now, no way that's happening (notice I didn't even include a hospital or teleport options in what I would like).
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You have over 15 members, so you should get the 300 K bonus. Therefore the minimum amount you need is 450 K to afford a base that can craft. Once you can do that, use the basic worktable to craft a mission computer. Placing it costs under 100 K so therefore you need at max to earn 550 K to afford the base you want. That can be earned by your SG in a few weeks to a month. That's not that bad, and if you focus your members on a goal and maybe throw in a couple of SG days where everyone should show up and give support for the SG by running missions together, then that timeframe can be severely reduced. The key is to work as a group. The more you can inspire your group mates to get together as often as possible and farm prestige, the closer you'll come to the base that you want.
OK, from reading all of that I gather you do not think that a small casual SG should be able to have a raidable base. I am not exactly sure though because at one point you say all SGs should have a raidable base, then later you say small SGs should be quiet and settle for a PvE base. You contradict yourself in your writing.
Anyway, my contention is the exact opposite of what yours appears to be. I believe that a small casual SG should have the ability to have a raidable base. Currently data shows that a small raidable base is about 50-80 weeks away for a small casual SG.
Quick sidetrack, I hope you can follow all this: Also, consider that it is impossible, for a small casual SG to experience a lot of the high end content of bases. Nothing else in this game is impossible for a small casual SG to experience. Nothing, Statesman himself has time and time again said that this game is for the casual player, the little guy, the guy in the small casual SG. Since he has not added the caveat of "everything but high end base content" we must assume that a small casual SG is supposed to be able to experience this eventually. Well right now, it is impossible. Ok now back to the other stuff...I hope you are still with me here.
I contend that this time frame is too long. By the way, this is the point you should be attacking. You should give reasons why you do not think 50-80 is too long. A large portion of your argument apparently focuses on my leadership abilities and how I should get my small SG in line and what nots. That is just funny because I am not in a small SG as my signature indicates. I fight for the small SG, but I am not in one. Nor do I lead the large one I am in. But I digress....
You say make teaming mandatory, well for most small SGs that defeats the purpose of playing and who am I to tell the small casual SG what to do??
You seem to think that the only way small SGs should get prestige is to farm for it. Well I have news for you, a lot of small SGs don't want to farm prestige, they just want to play the game...By simply playing and not farming you get about 2.5K per hour.
I have read in numerous posts that a small raidable base costs in the neighborhood of 4.5million. Please break down your raidable 1.5million base. I have seen the 4.5 one broken down and it made sense. Please break your 1.5million one down further and enlighten us more.
The point of my whole argument is that neither the Devs nor NCSoft has said that a small casual SG should not have a raidable base. You might not agree, which is fine, but until the devs come out and say otherwise we must assume that the intent is for the small casual SG to be able to build raidable bases. Right now they imply through the COV primer for bases that "that's all you need" for a raidable base. They make it sound fairly easy. Well time and time again I have seen small casual SGs contend that they get around 50K per week. Well 50K per week makes a base nearly unattainable. And I say the 50-80 week time frame for a base is wrong and something should be changed. Heck if they want they can keep the prices the same for the large SGs, but they need to do something about the small SG.
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OK, from reading all of that I gather you do not think that a small casual SG should be able to have a raidable base. I am not exactly sure though because at one point you say all SGs should have a raidable base, then later you say small SGs should be quiet and settle for a PvE base. You contradict yourself in your writing.
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Actually no I didn't. Go back and read it again. What I said was :
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Like I said, all SG's could have a raidable base, but it's obviously going to take a 1 to 10 man SG much longer than a 75 man SG.
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and
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For a raidable base you have to make sacrifices. If you don't want to do that, that be quiet and settle for a PvE base, plain and simple.
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Not once did I say a small SG shouldn't have a raidable base. I think your brain is clouding your vision and you're twisting the things you read into some perversion of what it was meant to be.
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Anyway, my contention is the exact opposite of what yours appears to be. I believe that a small casual SG should have the ability to have a raidable base. Currently data shows that a small raidable base is about 50-80 weeks away for a small casual SG.
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No I believe the same thing. The only problem is that your data isn't right. What you should be doing is sitting down and trying to think of better, more efficient ways of earning prestige instead of complaining on the boards about how you'll never have a raidable base. There is no way in hell that it should take you that long, unless your entire SG is casual and only plays a couple of days a week at most. If that's the case then you have no room to complain. If that isn't the case, then motivate your SG to earn prestige and try to get them on at the same time together a couple of times a week. Those mission bonuses and AV bonuses multiplied by a factor of 5, 6, 7 or 8 really start to add up.
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Quick sidetrack, I hope you can follow all this: Also, consider that it is impossible, for a small casual SG to experience a lot of the high end content of bases. Nothing else in this game is impossible for a small casual SG to experience. Nothing, Statesman himself has time and time again said that this game is for the casual player, the little guy, the guy in the small casual SG. Since he has not added the caveat of "everything but high end base content" we must assume that a small casual SG is supposed to be able to experience this eventually. Well right now, it is impossible. Ok now back to the other stuff...I hope you are still with me here.
I contend that this time frame is too long. By the way, this is the point you should be attacking. You should give reasons why you do not think 50-80 is too long. A large portion of your argument apparently focuses on my leadership abilities and how I should get my small SG in line and what nots. That is just funny because I am not in a small SG as my signature indicates. I fight for the small SG, but I am not in one. Nor do I lead the large one I am in. But I digress....
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Not in a small SG? Then stop complaining because you have no experience to back it up. I need number to back up my argument? I already gave you them. A group of my SG mates and myself (my SG is broken up into two actually, a 50's SG and a main SG) ran Dead Scanner quite repetitively for a couple of hours and bank rolled over 100 K. Those are the facts and in reality the 8 man team consisted of people from two different SG's.
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You say make teaming mandatory, well for most small SGs that defeats the purpose of playing and who am I to tell the small casual SG what to do??
You seem to think that the only way small SGs should get prestige is to farm for it. Well I have news for you, a lot of small SGs don't want to farm prestige, they just want to play the game...By simply playing and not farming you get about 2.5K per hour.
I have read in numerous posts that a small raidable base costs in the neighborhood of 4.5million. Please break down your raidable 1.5million base. I have seen the 4.5 one broken down and it made sense. Please break your 1.5million one down further and enlighten us more.
The point of my whole argument is that neither the Devs nor NCSoft has said that a small casual SG should not have a raidable base. You might not agree, which is fine, but until the devs come out and say otherwise we must assume that the intent is for the small casual SG to be able to build raidable bases. Right now they imply through the COV primer for bases that "that's all you need" for a raidable base. They make it sound fairly easy. Well time and time again I have seen small casual SGs contend that they get around 50K per week. Well 50K per week makes a base nearly unattainable. And I say the 50-80 week time frame for a base is wrong and something should be changed. Heck if they want they can keep the prices the same for the large SGs, but they need to do something about the small SG.
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Okay follow this if you can, since you had a tough time reading my previous post: You're a small, casual SG. That's your problem right there. Though it is not impossible that you could have a raidable base, it is going to take you a lot longer than a bigger, more active SG. Don't like it? Tough [censored]. Start being more active, start playing more if you want to reach your goal of having a raidable base sooner. No other end game content doesn't take as much time for a smaller, casual SG? Well, nothign in the game can be comparaed to the base builder. It's a completely new, innovative option to the game that can't be compared to Hami Raid, or AV missions or Shard TF's, etc. plain and simple. You comparing bases to other end game content is like comparing apples to oranges and pretty assinine. You don't like it? Tough [censored]. Work at it.
The game IS for the casual gamer. A raidable base is end game content that ANY SG large or small has to work for, case closed. Some of the larger SG's on the Champion server don't even have a raidable base yet, so maybe you should put that into perspective and stop [censored].
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DJJester wrote:
The problem is you can't look at this as just base building. Its the crafting system too. All the little goodies you unlock from SG badges, build at the worktables, etc, costs lots of prestige to place. It shouldn't take an SG 2 weeks to make enough influence to place one piece of equipment that one person built from salvage that they got in one day.
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Well said. That is yet another of the MANY problems with this whole system.
Finding salvage was exciting for about one day. Then I learned the costs of making and maintaining things. Once I learned that, finding salvage is more like a cruel joke.
Maldini, you are hilarious.
If anyone wants to know the kind of player Maldini is, just look at this bit of data:
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Reged: 05/06/24
Posts: 1753
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In about four and a half months, he already has 1,753 posts here.
Can you say mega hardcore player?
So of course, his estimates for "reasonable" amounts of prestige a small SG can earn are totally off base. He is using Hardcore gamer logic to analyze the issues facing casual playing, small SGs.
I imagine he is unaware that the overwhelming majority of customers of CoH/CoV and every other MMO out there are the casual gamers. He ignores this because he thinks everyone is super hardcore like he is.
In other words, ignore folks like him when they try to tell you what a "reasonable" amount of effort should be for small SGs and casual gamers.
Maldini
I don't mind taking time to reach a goal. As long as that goal can be reasonablely obtained by having fun and playing with my SG members towards that goal and see some benefits of that , instead of grinding work as a SLAVE to an OVERBEARING DICTATOR of a SG Leader.
You may enjoying being part of a Grinding SG. I perfer enjoying the game playing with my SG members.
I don't mind That the light is at the end of the tunnel. Just let me be able to see the light.
They should just change the Prestige cost associated with crafted items. Instead of costing an absurd amount of Prestige to place, those items should be in the decorative item range to place, but then count at their "actual" value for the purposes of computing rent.
The way it is now the whole Crafting process is just like having a confirmation box where you'd have to type in the name of the item before spending Prestige to place it. It's a meaningless and insignificant step compared to the huge outlay of Prestige.
Making that change would make the Crafting process feel like an actual process of building something. It'd also allow bases to expand faster but still have a limitation in the long run because of the associated increase in rent.
It'd also mitigate the destruction of items from a raid, the Prestige loss would be rather insignificant, but you'd have to keep a stock of Salvage on hand to replace items. Which seems to me to be kind of smooth and much better than taking multimillion Prestige losses from a two hour event. Damage Control after a raid would consist of crafting and replacing destroyed items, which would make Salvage more valuable and add a lot of meaning to the whole Crafting process.
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Maldini condescendingly babbled:
You're a small, casual SG. That's your problem right there. Though it is not impossible that you could have a raidable base, it is going to take you a lot longer than a bigger, more active SG. Don't like it? Tough [censored]. Start being more active, start playing more if you want to reach your goal of having a raidable base sooner.
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You might want to go read the CoV box.
Bases and PvP were not sold as end game, hardcore content. They were touted as right out of the box features.
Man if you read your arguments you will see just how hilarious you are.
I am not in a small SG so I have no basis for talking, well you aren't either so shouldn't you be quiet as well then??
Also please forgive me, but I do not see anywhere where you breakdown the costs for a 1.5million raidable base. I still want to see this.
You base your whole prestige calculations on FARMING prestige. I contend that nobody should be forced to FARM to earn their raidable base. That eventually, in a reasonable amount of time, say 12-16 weeks, that a small casual SG should be able to have a raidable base by just doing their missions. The data does support my contention. Doing regular missions and playing at a regular pace yields about 2.5K per hour. Go through some of the threads, you will see that number time and time again in multiple threads.
The rest of what I would say has already been mentioned by at least two other people, so I won't repeat it. The sentiment is clear that you are in fact hilarious.
Now here is the whole difference in our stances, you think that 80 weeks of regular play is a fine time period for a small SG to get a raidable base. That if they want it faster they should FARM and get more members. I say they should not have to do either of those things. I say that they should just be able to play normally and get that base in about 14 weeks. If you want to talk about those differences in opinion I will, but if you are just going to repeat yourself about FARMING and increasing prestige yield then I just don't have the time for you. Oh, and if you ever decide to break down that 1.5million raidable base that would be nice too.
Why in the world would a small casual SG WANT a raidable base?! The would get regularly destroyed by larger, hardcore, dedicated SGs raiding them anyway. True, it will be very difficult as it should be. Heck, I wouldn't want Earthguard or H.E.R.O. raiding MY base and we do have six characters over level 40.
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Why in the world would a small casual SG WANT a raidable base?! The would get regularly destroyed by larger, hardcore, dedicated SGs raiding them anyway. True, it will be very difficult as it should be. Heck, I wouldn't want Earthguard or H.E.R.O. raiding MY base and we do have six characters over level 40.
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Beats me, but if it is something that they want, then I do not see any reason for them not to have it.
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Maldini, you are hilarious.
If anyone wants to know the kind of player Maldini is, just look at this bit of data:
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Reged: 05/06/24
Posts: 1753
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In about four and a half months, he already has 1,753 posts here.
Can you say mega hardcore player?
So of course, his estimates for "reasonable" amounts of prestige a small SG can earn are totally off base. He is using Hardcore gamer logic to analyze the issues facing casual playing, small SGs.
I imagine he is unaware that the overwhelming majority of customers of CoH/CoV and every other MMO out there are the casual gamers. He ignores this because he thinks everyone is super hardcore like he is.
In other words, ignore folks like him when they try to tell you what a "reasonable" amount of effort should be for small SGs and casual gamers.
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You couldn't be farther from the truth. The fact that I have so many posts has more to do with the fact that I'm bored at work than the fact that I play so much. In actuality I play 3 days a week or 4 if I'm lucky and never play on the weekends. I play after I get out of work til it's time to go to bed. I would go so far as to say I'm a hardcore gamer. I'm anything but a hardcore gamer.
Not only am I an SG leader of a larger SG, but I also belong to several smaller casual SG's and therefore speak from experience.
Know the man, before you get ballsy and start talking about him.
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Maldini
I don't mind taking time to reach a goal. As long as that goal can be reasonablely obtained by having fun and playing with my SG members towards that goal and see some benefits of that , instead of grinding work as a SLAVE to an OVERBEARING DICTATOR of a SG Leader.
You may enjoying being part of a Grinding SG. I perfer enjoying the game playing with my SG members.
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We're not a grinding SG nor do we have overbearing SG leaders. What we have are group building SG nights, like any good SG should have. Our players are casual, so we don't grind everynight. ONE night last week I tried to get as many only as possible via our global chat channel. Many were on CoV and various other servers so it took some convincing. But a lot of them had fun while we all destroyed massive amounts of ninjas and several of our lower level members gained a few levels. We brought in several members from our lower level SG to get the Super Group SK badge, that way we could kill two birds with one stone.
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Maldini condescendingly babbled:
You're a small, casual SG. That's your problem right there. Though it is not impossible that you could have a raidable base, it is going to take you a lot longer than a bigger, more active SG. Don't like it? Tough [censored]. Start being more active, start playing more if you want to reach your goal of having a raidable base sooner.
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You might want to go read the CoV box.
Bases and PvP were not sold as end game, hardcore content. They were touted as right out of the box features.
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You're right. Any SG can start a base and anyone can enter a PvP zone and PvP. You cannot speak from experience on anything since you belong to a very large SG. No one needs you speaking on their behalf. I think they're pretty capable of that themselves.
Or maybe you just like to hear yourself talk and sound important?
Task Forces and Trials are also touted as available to everyone. Ever tried to recruit for The Cavern of Transcendence? Not much fun unless you have a very dedicated group. I'd have to say that must be one of the rarest badges still in circulation. Many aspects of this and any MMORPG require many people to participate in. If it were readily and easily available to casual players then why be more dedicated? Different people have different levels of participation.
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Man if you read your arguments you will see just how hilarious you are.
I am not in a small SG so I have no basis for talking, well you aren't either so shouldn't you be quiet as well then??
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That's where you are wrong. You do not belong to a small, casual SG, so therefore no one should be hearing your opinion in this discussion. I belong to several SG's both large and small, therefore I can speak from experience.
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Also please forgive me, but I do not see anywhere where you breakdown the costs for a 1.5million raidable base. I still want to see this.
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Energy Room (2 x 2) = 150,000
Basic Generator (1000 Power) = 225,000
Control Room (2 x 2) = 100,000
Mainframe = 150,000
Workshop x 2 = 200,000
Basic Worktable = 25,000
Mission Computer = 75,000
Transport Room = 150,000
Vault Room = 250,000
Total so far = 1.325 million
A Raid teleporter, IoP Base and 6 Dimensional Anchors will bring you up to the 1.5 million mark. Take the 300 K bonus and that brings you down to the 1.2 million mark.
You may have to add in another Database in case you run into control problems so thats only 106,000 more. That is nowhere near the 4.5 million prestige mark you were talking about. This is the most basic raidable base you could create, and you could even trade basic the worktable and get your 25 K back after you craft the mission computer.
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You base your whole prestige calculations on FARMING prestige. I contend that nobody should be forced to FARM to earn their raidable base.
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You don't have to farm. Just run missions as a group like you would under normal circumstances but do it in SG mode. Or are you saying that an SG shouldn't be forced to group together? No they shouldn't but that's why they formed an SG to begin with right, to group and have fun together?
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That eventually, in a reasonable amount of time, say 12-16 weeks, that a small casual SG should be able to have a raidable base by just doing their missions. The data does support my contention. Doing regular missions and playing at a regular pace yields about 2.5K per hour. Go through some of the threads, you will see that number time and time again in multiple threads.
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The figure depends on the group. Certains SG's and player combinations are naturally going to be more efficient killing and completing missions than others. Get some real data then come back and talk, because everytime you can show me this number, I'll come back and show you a better one.
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The rest of what I would say has already been mentioned by at least two other people, so I won't repeat it. The sentiment is clear that you are in fact hilarious.
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Everything you say is assinine because you're arguing just to argue without actually speaking from experience. I love people who are on top of the world and try to speak for the little man. Now THAT is friggin hilarious.
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Apparently facts and dedication really don't mean much.
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I'd think dedication should mean you have a nice full base, not just a functional one.
Something I honestly wonder about in the whole argument about this is the average size of SGs and average playing time per week or month of players. Reasonable to me would be the ability of the average sized SG playing an average amount to get a fuctional base within a months time. I honestly don't know those numbers and don't know if we have any idea what they are, but knowing an aim of the game has always been to be accessible to casual gamers, does that seem like a fair definition of reasonable?