Dainter87

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Statesman is a Buckeye fan! Whoohoo!

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LOL, this means he probably wants to nerf Teddy Ginn...He is too fast and thus unbalanced with the other players on the field.

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Right now a lot of posts have talked about the high Prestige cost of Base items - and that they're bringing in a ton of Salvage but can't really do anything about it.

Bases, as they currently stand, really focus on mid and large sized groups earning Prestige - so the complaints have a good point. We're trying to work something out so that a smaller group can get something useful quickly - and also put Salvage to use! Can't promise a timeline, but we are working on it.

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Finally! Glad to hear a post from a Red Name about this. It explains a lot and answers a lot of questions. Of course it opens the door for more questions, but at least it is an answer.

Would have liked to see the answer sooner though.

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No, but you can't complain about the prices of coffee in CA if you don't live there and have to put up with it every day. For the same reason, your trying to advocate for something that you only know of vicariously. Therefore you're arguing for no reason.

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Well by this logic Americans can not complain about the war in Iraq because they are not soldiers. Americans can not complain about the AIDS epidemic in Africa because they don't live there. Angelina Jolie can not speak for third world countries because she is not from one. You make little to no sense here. There are countless examples of people being able to argue for things they only know of vicariously.

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Yes, you are wrong. Thank you for finally admitting it. You can fit 9 rooms on a basic plot. 2 of those rooms can't hold anchors, so you have 7 rooms that can. A raid teleporter can be placed in a small Transport Room (2 x 2) with careful placing and deletion of doorways, etc. This has been argued in the above posts. That would be the only reason why you couldn't raid on a basic plot.

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It has been argued back and forth in many posts on many threads. A lot of people who seem to know what they are talking about say it is possible and a lot of people who seem to know what they are talking say it is not possible. I still am unsure, however if it is possible I have no trouble admitting that I am wrong.


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You don't have to farm, just keep running missions in SG mode. You want an example? Bloody Bay missions. PvP zones give 20% boost to prestige earnings. These missions are simple and quick to finish. There are timed, but are infinitely repeatable. There are various ways in which a group can do this missions, either a hard way or an easy way. You wanted an example, you got one. For every point there is a counterpoint. Quid pro quo. For every time you say people can only earn this much per hour, I can show you how they can earn this much per hour. And you know what's the best? The fact that I have done this as well as others. I have experience in this, you do not.

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Well you gave an example in a PVP zone that is only for certain lvls. I am not sure that is the best example you can give. It is 1 example, a limited example, can't you do better?

Also for some reason you seem to think that I haven't even played this game. That I don't have experience in getting prestige. Well I can tell you that is incorrect. I do in fact know what I am doing when it comes to earning prestige. And I am also pleased to see that the base of your arguments are in the form of personal attacks on me. That indicates that you have no real data to back up your claims. Only data that you and your friends, a small subset of the gaming community, has found.

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You should take the time and actually do missions yourself and experiement yourself, just like other and I have done. Your time would be better spent trying to help these people out by finding alternatives instead of being an idiot in a forum and posting for the sake of hearing yourself talk.

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Ah, there you go again with the personal attacks. It is incorrect to assume that I have not figured out ways to get good prestige figures. In fact, you don't even need to play to know about the Bloody Bay missions, the forums have those ways listed. The difference between you and me is that you assume that because you have found a way to get decent prestige figures that small SGs should just do it your way. I think that they should be able to do it own their own terms and get a raidable base in about 14 weeks. Real data from those types of SGs show that it is going to take either 21 or 84 weeks (depending on whether or not 1.5 or 4.5 is right) to get that base. 21, if correct, is not the end of the world, but it is still about 5 weeks too long. If 84 is correct, then it is way too long.

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Actually I do have real data, because I have gained prestige. It's not that hard to do really. You are the one who has no real data. You just read through forums all day and decide to advocate for situations you have never experienced yourself. Unfortunately I don't have enough online data space to copy of full nights worth of a demo file for you to look at. Like I said earlier, go start a small SG and work at ways to make things better instead of crying NERF to the devs at every chance you get.

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Jeez more personal attacks...Saying I read the forums all day? Aren't you the one with all the posts in a short amount of time? The one who said they post on the forums alot because they are bored at work??

Again, I have played the game, and I know how to earn prestige. As far as your data being the only real data, I just don't know how to explain it to you. You can't take your numbers that you and your mates make and apply them across the board to every small SG. Especially when the techniques you list are either farming or from a limited mission type that is only for certain levels.

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There have been posts after posts of people saying that affording bases are not as bad as you think. There are new CoV VG's that have a better base than established, large CoH SG's. But maybe you fail to read these posts and only read the ones that support your cause?

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Likewise there have been post after post saying the exact opposite. Who should we believe? Well I am inclined to believe what the math and data support. All of the people who have these nice bases have been farming prestige. Or are doing the PvP missions.

I ask why is it so bad to consider what the so called whiners are whining about? I took the time to do the math and research from prestige earnings and I do not think they are whining. I think they have a point.

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Good, go out there and reproduce the situations, then like a true lawyer or scientist you can say that you have yourself shown objectively that the base system is flawed. But of course you'd have to compete with those SG's and VG's who will prove you wrong time and time again with objective evidence. I've tested and found better ways to earn prestige, you haven't. You just whine post after post about ridiculous assumptions.

Start your own SG, build your own base, then come back and we'll talk about this.

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Goodness gracious more accusations of not earning prestige, you are hilarious boy. The best part is that I AM doing this objectively. I am looking at the forums, doing my own missions at a normal rate and calculating an amount that seems reasonable. That amount is 2.5K. Can I personally do better? Yes. Does it matter? No. Am I going out and saying, well if you farm Bloody Bay you get 6k per hour? No. I am looking at it objectively and taking data from the small SGs. I am actually looking outside of my own experiences to draw conclusions, something you seemingly are not doing.

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That's where you are wrong. You do not belong to a small, casual SG, so therefore no one should be hearing your opinion in this discussion. I belong to several SG's both large and small, therefore I can speak from experience.

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Ah, yes you have seen it all and done it all, you are the only person who can give an opinion on this, I have not been in a small SG so I can not speak of them. Yes, I see now that it is totally impossible for me to understand the dynamics of a small SG. I see now that I can not possibly grasp a small SG because I have never been in one...Just like I can never order coffee in CA because I have never been there, even though I have ordered it in other places...Just like I can not drive in OR because I have never driven there, even though I have driven in other places. Saying I can't speak about a small SG makes just about as much sense as saying I can't order coffee in CA because I have never done it before.



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Energy Room (2 x 2) = 150,000
Basic Generator (1000 Power) = 225,000
Control Room (2 x 2) = 100,000
Mainframe = 150,000
Workshop x 2 = 200,000
Basic Worktable = 25,000
Mission Computer = 75,000
Transport Room = 150,000
Vault Room = 250,000
Total so far = 1.325 million

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I appreciate you finally posting these. Now we can see that our differences of opinion lie in the fact that I believe you need to upgrade plots and you do not. We needn't argue about this anymore, one of us is right and one is wrong. Can anyone shed more light on this? Do you or do you not need to upgrade plots? There are dissenting opinions throughout all threads on this.

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You don't have to farm. Just run missions as a group like you would under normal circumstances but do it in SG mode. Or are you saying that an SG shouldn't be forced to group together? No they shouldn't but that's why they formed an SG to begin with right, to group and have fun together?

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Here is where you ignorance shines through the most. I have said that I am going off of what a lot of people are saying on these boards. That they make 2.5K per hour doing missions as normal in SG mode. You are saying that they can make more than 2.5k(per person) per hour by FARMING. The only example you gave on how to get more was a FARMING example. Please give another example for these small SGs to follow. You seem to be an expert, enlighten them with an example other than farming. Right now I am inclined to believe the numerous people who have posted a 2.5k per hour figure over the figure you presented. Also, nowhere did I say that SG shouldn't group together, you are grasping at straws there. I am not even sure why you put that rhetorical question (I assume it is rhetorical) in there.


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The figure depends on the group. Certains SG's and player combinations are naturally going to be more efficient killing and completing missions than others. Get some real data then come back and talk, because everytime you can show me this number, I'll come back and show you a better one.

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Your ignorance and having not read the other threads is showing again...My numbers are taken from numerous posts and are REAL data. In fact they are averages from numerous posts throughout these threads. It is your data that is only based on your experiences. Of course you can show me a better figure. I can also show a worse figure at will if I am just going to use data that I made up myself. But instead I took the time and put in the effort to find out what people were getting and I did some math based on that. You on the other hand, did some FARMING missions and tried to use those figures.

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Everything you say is assinine because you're arguing just to argue without actually speaking from experience. I love people who are on top of the world and try to speak for the little man. Now THAT is friggin hilarious.

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Again you are showing more ignorance. I am not arguing just to argue. If I was doing that my retorts would be far shorter and I would not have taken the time to do a little data-mining on the boards. It is actually you who appear to be arguing for the sake of arguing. You have no REAL data, yet accuse me of not having any. You make claims that a person can only speak from experience on these matters which is assine in itself (SEE buying coffee in CA example).

Also, I have never claimed to be on top of the world, nor have I claimed to be speaking FOR the little man. They speak for themselves and I speak WITH them. There are tons of posts (again, I doubt you read them) from the little man supporting the figures I show and there are tons of posts from the little man saying how they view the base system. I do not speak FOR them, but I aggree WITH them. And I will argue their case WITH them.

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Why in the world would a small casual SG WANT a raidable base?! The would get regularly destroyed by larger, hardcore, dedicated SGs raiding them anyway. True, it will be very difficult as it should be. Heck, I wouldn't want Earthguard or H.E.R.O. raiding MY base and we do have six characters over level 40.

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Beats me, but if it is something that they want, then I do not see any reason for them not to have it.

Man if you read your arguments you will see just how hilarious you are.

I am not in a small SG so I have no basis for talking, well you aren't either so shouldn't you be quiet as well then??

Also please forgive me, but I do not see anywhere where you breakdown the costs for a 1.5million raidable base. I still want to see this.

You base your whole prestige calculations on FARMING prestige. I contend that nobody should be forced to FARM to earn their raidable base. That eventually, in a reasonable amount of time, say 12-16 weeks, that a small casual SG should be able to have a raidable base by just doing their missions. The data does support my contention. Doing regular missions and playing at a regular pace yields about 2.5K per hour. Go through some of the threads, you will see that number time and time again in multiple threads.

The rest of what I would say has already been mentioned by at least two other people, so I won't repeat it. The sentiment is clear that you are in fact hilarious.

Now here is the whole difference in our stances, you think that 80 weeks of regular play is a fine time period for a small SG to get a raidable base. That if they want it faster they should FARM and get more members. I say they should not have to do either of those things. I say that they should just be able to play normally and get that base in about 14 weeks. If you want to talk about those differences in opinion I will, but if you are just going to repeat yourself about FARMING and increasing prestige yield then I just don't have the time for you. Oh, and if you ever decide to break down that 1.5million raidable base that would be nice too.

OK, from reading all of that I gather you do not think that a small casual SG should be able to have a raidable base. I am not exactly sure though because at one point you say all SGs should have a raidable base, then later you say small SGs should be quiet and settle for a PvE base. You contradict yourself in your writing.

Anyway, my contention is the exact opposite of what yours appears to be. I believe that a small casual SG should have the ability to have a raidable base. Currently data shows that a small raidable base is about 50-80 weeks away for a small casual SG.

Quick sidetrack, I hope you can follow all this: Also, consider that it is impossible, for a small casual SG to experience a lot of the high end content of bases. Nothing else in this game is impossible for a small casual SG to experience. Nothing, Statesman himself has time and time again said that this game is for the casual player, the little guy, the guy in the small casual SG. Since he has not added the caveat of "everything but high end base content" we must assume that a small casual SG is supposed to be able to experience this eventually. Well right now, it is impossible. Ok now back to the other stuff...I hope you are still with me here.

I contend that this time frame is too long. By the way, this is the point you should be attacking. You should give reasons why you do not think 50-80 is too long. A large portion of your argument apparently focuses on my leadership abilities and how I should get my small SG in line and what nots. That is just funny because I am not in a small SG as my signature indicates. I fight for the small SG, but I am not in one. Nor do I lead the large one I am in. But I digress....

You say make teaming mandatory, well for most small SGs that defeats the purpose of playing and who am I to tell the small casual SG what to do??

You seem to think that the only way small SGs should get prestige is to farm for it. Well I have news for you, a lot of small SGs don't want to farm prestige, they just want to play the game...By simply playing and not farming you get about 2.5K per hour.

I have read in numerous posts that a small raidable base costs in the neighborhood of 4.5million. Please break down your raidable 1.5million base. I have seen the 4.5 one broken down and it made sense. Please break your 1.5million one down further and enlighten us more.

The point of my whole argument is that neither the Devs nor NCSoft has said that a small casual SG should not have a raidable base. You might not agree, which is fine, but until the devs come out and say otherwise we must assume that the intent is for the small casual SG to be able to build raidable bases. Right now they imply through the COV primer for bases that "that's all you need" for a raidable base. They make it sound fairly easy. Well time and time again I have seen small casual SGs contend that they get around 50K per week. Well 50K per week makes a base nearly unattainable. And I say the 50-80 week time frame for a base is wrong and something should be changed. Heck if they want they can keep the prices the same for the large SGs, but they need to do something about the small SG.

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For those complaining about Small SG's:

You must have around 8 membes right? Well, your best bet would be to form a full team of SG members in SG mode and just start cranking out missions. After a couple of hours of this you should have at least 100 K. A couple of days of this per week and after a couple of weeks you should have enough prestige to build the base you want. Grab a couple more members to make use of that 20 K Prestige Bonus up to 15 members

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I don't think you get the point of the complaining. And I am not even sure you read half the posts here. Your assumptions are so out of whack that I am not sure why I am even responding. But I will anyway:

First of all many small SGs can't get a full team of 8 together on a consistent basis. Is there anything wrong with this? No, the Devs have NEVER said a small SG should not have an item of power. When/If the Devs say this I will drop my whole argument.

Second, various people have said that by just doing missions (not counting the PVP zones) they can get about 2.5k per hour. Well 2.5K per hour times 8 people is 20K for the SG per hour...This means 5 hours for this team of 8 to get 100K, not a "couple hours."

Third a raidable base, which is perfectly reasonable for a small SG to want, costs about 4.5million. Even using your incorrect figure of 200K per week for a small SG the group who want a raidable base will take about 21 weeks. (Note: with the 300K bonus it would take 21 weeks, without more like 22) Now I don't really think 21 weeks is that bad (although I do think it is about 6-8 weeks too long, but I am not arguing over 6-8 weeks), but remember we were using a 200K per week figure that is possibly overstated by a factor of 4...So that 21 weeks becomes 84 weeks, which IS too long.

Fourth, various small SG/VG are saying they are averaging 50K a WEEK. This totally blows out of the water your assumption of 100K in a DAY.

Please go back and read some of the data that has been presented. If you feel that data is wrong, or have better ways for these people to get prestige then please by all means enlighten them. However, as long as these small SGs are coming out and saying that all they can reasonably do is 50K per WEEK then the base pricing structure needs revisited, or a DEV needs to come out and say that raidable bases are not intented for small SGs.

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This is a pretty similar situation to what my villain group is experiencing. We have about 25 members right now (actual players are closer to 18 given some alts) and have about half of us in the 14 to 20 range and the other half in the 2 to 10 level range.

All of us in the 14 to 20 range are having a hard time getting our DOs. We have no level 50s to give us a million infamy here and there. We are all playing in super group mode to build our base faster, and all the while suffering somewhat with less DOs.

We're averaging about 50K right now too, so we'll be joining everyone else in about 20 weeks. I was hoping to accomplish this in about half that time, but giving how dedicated our people are already, I know we're not going to get much more production out of anybody before it starts becoming a second job.

I already play almost every night, to the woes of my family, and all my villains are in the same group, so whoever I play is earning prestige for our group. At least we followed another poster's suggestion on another thread some time ago (sorry I forgot who that was) and made our 2-room base filled with decorative stuff so at least it's somewhere to go.

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This is the exact situation that irks me the most.

If this person in this group wants to have an item of power, which is certainly not unreasonable given the fact that it was advertised as such and not a single Dev has said otherwise, they will have to wait 60 weeks.

60 weeks is too long. I am not saying they should have it yesterday, I am saying that 60 weeks is too long. It should be no more than like 16 weeks (maybe 12), which is basically 4 months.

And keep in mind this is for a base that can hold an item of power. I am not even getting into the idea that they should at least have a chance to defend it with turrets and what nots, which will add extra cost to the base.

I am also not even getting to the idea that if this SG/VG can earn the salvage to build a generator in 2 days then why does it take around 30 weeks (1.5million prestige placing cost @ 50k per week) to place.

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I would consider a functional base to be one with A working Worktable or a running teleporter or an infirmary. True it may not do everything you'd want it to do but it will DO something. Those of with reasonable expectations have already built their basic bases. One would think that this fact would have silenced the outcries of "Make it cheaper!" and "I'll NEVER be able to afford a base"

Apparently facts and dedication really don't mean much.

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So what you are saying is it is unreasonable for a small SG to want a raidable base?? Why is it unreasonable for a person in a small SG to want to have an item of power?? Heck it is right on the box that you can get an item of power. It is right in the COV primer for bases telling you "that's all you need" to have for a base raid. Nothing NCSoft has put out has ever said a small SG should not have an item of power. If it did then maybe you dimwits that say they shouldn't would have a leg to stand on. Nothing NCSoft or the Devs have ever said would indicate that it is unreasonable for a small SG to want an item of power. Just because someone doesn't have the same expectations as you doesn't mean their expectations are unreasonable.

They advertised the heck out of items of power and raids for said items of powers, but yet a small SG really has little chance. And yes this little chance has been shown over and over again using math.

Small SG gets about 50K per week...Raidable base costs like 4million, heck let's say 3 million. ...That is 60 weeks for that small SG to be able to get an item of power...

How dedicated do you want these people to be before their cries for lower prices are unreasonable?? Apparently you want them to wait longer than 60 weeks.

And let's not even get started about how an item of power should not be held by a small SG. The mission to get one requires like 4 people. If a small SG wasn't meant to have one then the mission to get one would require more than 4 people....

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Has anyone realized that it isn't possible to base raid yet, and it probably won't be possible until I7 when they add the 40-50 content?

Consider how long it will be until then, and how long you guys are hypothesizing it will take to build a raidable base... hmm..

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It is possible...Instant raids are operational right now, and theoretically if you had an IoP you could be raided, but I don't think anyone has one of those yet...

Anyway, it has to be possible, all of the advertising says it is possible right now. They would be looking at a major false advertising law suit if it were not possible...

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Why would anyone farm for prestige? I earn 5k a night, playing for 2 hours or so a night, and I'm just doing my missions, not farming anything.

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Probably to get more of it so they can build more stuff in their bases. That seems to be pretty obvious.

Plus farming prestige can get you upwards to 8K per hour and I would not be suprised to hear of someone doing more than that. Because if I can figure out a way to get 8K per hour then someone else certainly figured out a way to do probably 12k per hour...

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Raidable? If that's the topic of discussion, then I guess I'll stay out, I don't really care one way or the other about raidable bases. If a small group is locked out of PvP base raids, that don't bother me any.

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I'm not sure about anyone else, but I always figured raiding was a function of a base...So when anyone said a "small functional base" I assumed that meant raid capable...because if it wasn't then it wouldn't be functional....

I'm not sure if you would call a car functional, if it only turned on and let you listen to music, but didn't actually drive anywhere.....

So anyway, yeah I think everyone is talking about raiding when they say functional...For someone who was a stickler about the term "mathematically impossible" I am suprised you were so loose with the term "functional."

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If a base had both a Robotic Fabricator and a Flames of Hephaestus, would the effects stack? Can a base purchase multiple Robots/Flames? And can the Robots/Flames themselves be destroyed?

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Question reposted due to ... well ... not being answered.



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I do not believe the devs have given any direction on this. And since nobody has enough prestige to build this stuff yet and do a raid nobody can test it out.

Well Mag, we are up to 113M for max value....i think the largest secure plot costs 137M

Maybe I missed a decimal in my memory...

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Magpie, I totally agree with the spirit of your post, but one point of clarity - aren't taxes due every two weeks instead of one?

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Bah he is right! I think it is every 2 weeks...double that base number then back up to the 100M range...I think

I can't disagree with any of that Magpie. I'd say those calcs are good enough for me...

Sadly, the bonus doesn't give a SG enough prestige to build the basics. An earlier post shows what you can build with the original SG bonus...You can't build much.

Ah OK I see where you are coming from, I would not be shocked to hear that it is the Devs intent that a small 10-20 person SG should not be able to do raids. The system clearly prevents them from being able to...

When I say small I am talking like less than 20.

Plus, I think a lot of people would disagree that small SGs aren't supposed to be able to raid and/or have items of power.

That's the main issue here, the high cost to build the base.

At these prices small SGs will NEVER get a base with an IoP that they have even a chance of defending.

It is going to take a long time for large SGs to make good bases, but they will do it. 4-6 months from now.

In early raid testing on COV mainframes went down in 6 hits from a stalker.

Having never seen a placed super computer I can not say how many hit points it has, but if it is anywhere close to 6 hits you can bet that it will be destroyed during a raid...

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This is the only point where you might have missed what I meant. I was intentionally calculating the point where an sg could afford nothing but rent. I only wanted to get the max value of prestige (or equivalent) that you could own, getting to that point would be a massively laboured and increasingly slow-going task at the high end. Maintaining that value of equipment, as you said, would be nigh impossible if you were actually being raided.

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Ah I see now...I did mis that part of it all.

My SWAG for the amount of prestige a person can earn in an hour doing the normal stuff, missions, some street hunting, some chatting with friends, just playing, is 2200.

Oh, SWAG = Stupid Wild A$$ Guess

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So what month does Novbember come after? I don't have that one on my calendar...

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Novbember is right after Hopetober.

Magpie,

OK, I'd say your PH is high, but I have no proof to dispute it. Just 25 players playing that long might be high...

Second and more importantly, the 5,357 per hour earning rate is probably high to put across a whole week of playing. I do not believe an SG can sustain that rate for a whole week. I believe they would get bored real quick doing the same task over and over again.

Thirdly (if that is a word) your method would make it so that prestige farming is the only thing the players in the SG do. 100% of their time is spent prestige farming. 0% is spent on raiding, missions, COV, building a base. This obviously is a problem.

Fourthly (again is that a word?) your calcs are for if the SG only spent their prestige on rent. There would be no buying of anything else, or replacing something that got destroyed...

Now having said all that, the basic premise is correct and your numbers hold a lot of water. I believe your points are all valid and give readers a good thing to look at when they are forming their opinions on whether or not prestige is out of whack...All in all great post!