A Plea - COV and COH Costume Pieces
By
Aaron123,
Posted on: 2005-10-20 13:24 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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The reason, and I'll bet money on it, that they are doing it is that you need to buy CoV to get access to the pieces. And this will get people who normally wouldn't buy CoV to buy it just to add costume options in CoH.
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That was pretty much my thought, but I didn't want to come out and say it. And I agree, I'd much rather hear that then, "We made a mistake in CoV, so we're making it in CoH!"
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The option being added isn't hurting anyone. If the new costume features don't appeal to you for your heroes, simply don't use them. Your choices are not being limited and your ability to craft the toon that you want is not hindered. So...what's the problem exactly?
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It's sort of like someone saying, "I want my Scrapper to have AoE Holds and Nova and AM!" and someone saying, "Um... Scrappers and Controllers and Blasters and Defenders need some distinction between each other." to which the person replies, "You're trying to oppress my playstyle! You want me to play only the way you want!"
Obviously powers and costume options are different, but it is comparable. There should be distinction between the two games just as there should be distinction between the various archetypes. Just because someone wants that distinction doesn't mean they're doing it to personally offend you, just like the people who are in favor of this likely aren't doing it just because they're out to get me.
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Don't you have anyone to argue with at home?
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No my cat just stares at me and occassionally licks his crotch. I'm hoping no one does that when reading my posts.
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*stops what he is doing to look up at thatsmystapler*
-.-
-,-
*goes back to what he was doing*
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To be clear: the code for sharing costume pieces between City of Heroes and City of Villains is NOT yet in...heck, it isn't even written yet. BUT we'll do it after release - hopefully very soon after release. Then heroes can have access to the new options.
To be honest, this idea came specifically from this thread. Since people wanted the new costume options, I checked with Software - who said it could be done. Just wanted to let you know that yes, we do take suggestions!
FYI - for those who don't like the idea because villains should look different than heroes - remember that villains already have hero options. They can create a character identical to one that exists in City of Heroes.
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Does the happy dance and pumps his elbow a few times.
Yes!
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There should be distinction between the two games just as there should be distinction between the various archetypes.
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Puh-lease. Distinction beteween two games that run on the same client software with the same server software on the same physical servers with many zones shared between the two?
Ahem. I want my fishnets, tophats, scarves, and supernatural faces in CoH.
Actually, if you go on Training Room, some of the CoV costume options are already showing up, albeit as bugs.
Oh, and shoulder kitties are missing. *sigh*
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Distinction beteween two games that run on the same client software with the same server software on the same physical servers with many zones shared between the two?
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Plenty of other MMOGs have distinction between the various sides. It's not like that's unfounded.
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Don't you have anyone to argue with at home?
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No my cat just stares at me and occassionally licks his crotch. I'm hoping no one does that when reading my posts.
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Ummm.... I can't see you and I'm nowhere near your cat while reading your posts... 
I think it's interesting that some of the costume items people want are neither Heroic nor Villainous and probably half the civilian NPC's have these items in their closets at home 
( fishnet stockings, leather jackets, whips, chains... )
And why would Villians get Longbow shoulder pieces and Heroes not?
The only real problem I see, is that Serge down at the local Icon may quit when he's forced to add these "villainous" costume items to his inventory...
I was trying so hard not to reply in this thread. I PMed States, Recluse, and Cuppajo about CoV costumes being there for CoH players.
Thanks Statesman for comming through for me any way. I am glad to see these options added. Shoot I begged for them over PM to the afore mentioned people. MORE is always better, no matter what a few people say.
My grandmother used to have a saying "That person would argue with a sign post." I can see that that applys to several people on this thread.
Oh and do some of you people actuly read comics? There is no real distinction in costuming any more, there hasn't been in a long time. Look at Spawn he is a hero, and he has skulls and chains. Oh and Bizzaro has that goofy smile you don't think villans should have. The punisher, another skull on a good guy. Shoot the Spiderman Black costume could pass for an Arachnos agent, but he was a good guy. That costuming distinction left with the golden age. Welcome to the age of the anti-hero, and for that matter the anti-villain. Oh and the joker looks like a clown.
So just have fun with the game your way, and I will do it my way. I like the Dark hero look and plan to use it alot. If you want your heros to be shiny happy, and villains to be dark and brooding more power to you. Just leave me the hell alone while I do it my way.
Hey thanks again Statesman for giving us MORE costuming. Only thing I disagree with is, I think all players should get them, wether they buy CoV or not. And in time I suspect they will.
Later,
Zyph
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
Why should Tutu's be added?
The Toxic Avenger
Why should "lightsabers" be added?
Thundarr the Barbarian
Troll Heads
Because sometimes ugliness is heroic
Strawberry Shortcake Hats
Because sometimes real children play this game. Some as young as 8.
Congradulations on your promotion to the Command Sergeant Major of Costumes, though.
"If you build it, they will run you over with it."-RPG Designers Mantra
Working on: YotZ Legends: Even Heroes Die (First Round Edit)
Anyone that considers Spawn and Punisher to be "good guys" and "heroes" has no reason to be commenting on comic books at all. Unless you definition of good guy is killin people?
And for the record, I'm not against more costume pieces in CoH, quite the opposite in fact. I'm against the truly villainous stuff being put in CoH. There should be costume options exclusive to both sides.
And WoW shares the same server/client/etc/ and yet the Horde and Alliance look different. Go figure.
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Obviously powers and costume options are different, but it is comparable. There should be distinction between the two games just as there should be distinction between the various archetypes. Just because someone wants that distinction doesn't mean they're doing it to personally offend you, just like the people who are in favor of this likely aren't doing it just because they're out to get me.
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The problem is identifying where that distinction lies. Because how heroic/villainous is, say, a scarf? Or a split cape? Or a skull design?
Every costume piece brought up as "not villainous/heroic enough" will have some corresponding example in some comic, whether American or Japanese or whatever. If a division has to be drawn, the line will be arbitrary at best. Players don't really react well to arbitrary decisions. Yes, the devs can issue something akin to "because we say so" ex cathedra, but I'm fairly sure that this will not go well with most of the playerbase.
Asking the two games to look different isn't a bad thing in theory. But how should that be implemented? Which costume pieces say "hero", and which say "villain"? Are we to be indoctrinated by association into thinking of striped scarves as evil by nature?
"Ranged" vs. "melee" isn't such a hard distinction to make, most of the time, as is "offense" vs. "support". But "heroic costumes" and "villainous costumes" are still quite undefined.
Current main:
Schrodinger's Gun, Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster, Virtue
Avatar: Becky Miyamoto from Pani Poni Dash. Roulette roulette~
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And WoW shares the same server/client/etc/ and yet the Horde and Alliance look different. Go figure.
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They have species variations. It's kind of difficult to mistake a Tauren for a Gnome.
The WoW character creator doesn't provide for a lot of options, since that's not its strength. The CoH character creator is rather more significant.
Current main:
Schrodinger's Gun, Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster, Virtue
Avatar: Becky Miyamoto from Pani Poni Dash. Roulette roulette~
Actually, I can think of a litmus test for whether or not something should be in the villian section...
Get a teenage boy, you know the ones, all full of rage, angst, rage against The Man, and in love with Evul!!!! and ask him if something is cool or lame.
If they think it's cool, it's villanous.
If it's lame, it's heroic.
Or...
If it's sold at Hot Topic, it's not villanous.
"If you build it, they will run you over with it."-RPG Designers Mantra
Working on: YotZ Legends: Even Heroes Die (First Round Edit)
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Why should Tutu's be added?
The Toxic Avenger
Why should "lightsabers" be added?
Thundarr the Barbarian
Troll Heads
Because sometimes ugliness is heroic
Strawberry Shortcake Hats
Because sometimes real children play this game. Some as young as 8.
Congradulations on your promotion to the Command Sergeant Major of Costumes, though.
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Toxic Avenger and Thundarr are NOT superheroes. Using your logic, we should have Baby Ruth bars and clubs with birds that come out of them. The guy from Goonies and Captain Caveman are as much superheroes as your examples. Captain Caveman probably even more so.
And if ugliness is heroic.....naw just too easy.lol
And why should we cater to little kids WHEN THE GAME IS RATED TEEN??? Should we put the Wiggles in a Rob Zombie movie just because some parents ignore the ratings system and let their kids watch it?
Edited to be less harsh.
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And if ugliness is heroic.....naw just too easy.lol
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Ugliness does not confer either heroism or villainy.
Current main:
Schrodinger's Gun, Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster, Virtue
Avatar: Becky Miyamoto from Pani Poni Dash. Roulette roulette~
The general consensus in American comics is:
ugly=evil
fat=evil
Blame society, but that's the case. We want our heroes big and muscular and all ideal. There are obvious exceptions, but they are usually the first to get killed too. (ie Dinah Soar)
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*looks for the slap the stupid out of the poster key* Since I can't find it, I'll have to use words.
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Careful using that key, you'll end up with a black eye. You should go for the "Slap the arrogance" key, since both of us will get punched in the face that way.
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Toxic Avenger and Thundarr are NOT superheroes.
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Really? That's strange. I seem to remember the Toxic Avenger would easily fit the Tank class, and Thundarr would definately be a scrapper.
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Using your logic, we should have Baby Ruth bars and clubs with birds that come out of them. The guy from Goonies and Captain Caveman are as much superheroes as your examples. Captain Caveman probably even more so.
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Hmmm... Costumed. Fights crime. Has strange abilities/powers/gadgets. Not a hero? Hmmm, better start a thread asking Statesman to get rid of Archery and Devices power sets, those aren't heroic.
Oh, and neither is punching people. Better get rid of Superstrength.
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And if ugliness is heroic.....naw just too easy.lol
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Then we're both pretty heroic. There, I said it for you. Don't bother me if ugly is heroic. Does it bother you?
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And why should we cater to little kids WHEN THE GAME IS RATED TEEN???
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Rated for violence and suggestive content.
A lot tamer than a Bugs Bunny cartoon.
And who said anything about catering to them. What, will adding a strawberry shortcake hat so I can make my "Super Powered Emo Chick Villian FOOOOR YOU!!!" cause your computer screen to melt down when I run by with other fun/comedy based heroes on the way to make fun of Frost Fire after he faceplants from a beat down?
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Should we put the Wiggles in a Rob Zombie movie just because some parents ignore the ratings system and let their kids watch it?
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LOL And people accuse me of exaggeration.
Yeah, CoH/CoV == House of a 1000 Corpses.
How about you let us design our ugly costumes, and ask for what WE think is cool.
This isn't City of thatsmystapler, or even Mthatsmystapler'sORPG. A lot of people play it, a lot of us have opinions.
Sorry some of us want to be silly and have a good time, and that it offends your delicate sensibilities. If I want to make a superpowered Mime with a "sunsword" and a tutu and strawberry shortcake hat, I have just as much right to as you do to make your oh so serious gritty hero.
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Closing a tag and appending two statements.
AND
So what if American comics portray good as good looking and muscular.
I'm able to decide what's heroic, and I decided a long time ago that it's deeds, not words and appearance.
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We want our heroes big and muscular and all ideal.
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Well, YOU and those who think like YOU want them that way.
I like mine flawed. Be it externally through looks, or internally through emotional/mental issues.
I find Deathlocke a lot more interesting than some spandexed pretty boy who probably gets his superpowers from how heavily his true mating desires are closeted.
"If you build it, they will run you over with it."-RPG Designers Mantra
Working on: YotZ Legends: Even Heroes Die (First Round Edit)
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Anyone that considers Spawn and Punisher to be "good guys" and "heroes" has no reason to be commenting on comic books at all. Unless you definition of good guy is killin people?
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No...obviously if you kill anyone you cannot be a hero. Screw the police and the military. They must be all pure evil since they kill people when they have to! You have opened my eyes! No longer will I think or Police or Military are heroes that keep us safe!
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Anyone that considers Spawn and Punisher to be "good guys" and "heroes" has no reason to be commenting on comic books at all. Unless you definition of good guy is killin people?
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No...obviously if you kill anyone you cannot be a hero. Screw the police and the military. They must be all pure evil since they kill people when they have to! You have opened my eyes! No longer will I think or Police or Military are heroes that keep us safe!
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There's a bit of a difference between killing people because one has to, and killing people because one chooses to.
I'm only marginally familiar with the Punisher and Spawn (in that I know they exist and they sometimes kill people), so I'm not sure where they fall in those categories.
Current main:
Schrodinger's Gun, Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster, Virtue
Avatar: Becky Miyamoto from Pani Poni Dash. Roulette roulette~
This is a game of superheroes. If it was merely a game of heroes doctors, firefighters, and my grandpa would be in it. I didn't buy this game to be a boat commander in World War II, no matter how heroic that is. I bought it to throw on a costume and fly through the air and fight bad guys just like in the comic books that inspired the game.
Jason Voorhies or He-man could be a tanker and Freddy a scrapper. Ash could be a blaster. Yet are those people we wanna see in this game? And while some might actually say yes, I vote an astounding no.
And to ask what will it bother if someone is wearing a stupid costume. What will it bother if someone wants to called their hero Streetwalker69 or SatanicSchoolSux? Does it physically impede our gameplay? No. But is it something we want to see in the game? No. Will most people send a petition? Yes. Same thing goes for costumes as it does for names. You are welcomed to make whatever look you want, and the rest of us are still free to ridicule and put our votes in against things like giant skull monsters for heroes.
And it's mainstream majority of comic readers that want the ideal look for their heroes. Otherwise Superman would be fat, Wonder Woman a guy in drag, and Spider-man would have a nubbin.
And Deathlok(at least the Luthor Manning version) wasn't interesting because he was ugly. He was interesting because he was a pacifist trapped in the ultimate weapon. The dichotomy there made him interesting. If being fugly was all it took, Beak would have his own comic.
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The general consensus in American comics is:
ugly=evil
fat=evil
Blame society, but that's the case. We want our heroes big and muscular and all ideal. There are obvious exceptions, but they are usually the first to get killed too. (ie Dinah Soar)
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Interestingly enough (and albeit only tangentially related, since there hasn't been a real conclusion to the discussion yet), there's a fascinating thread about this issue over in Suggestions and Ideas about the CoH comic.
Now, personally, I'm of the opinion that "ugly/fat = evil" is no more valid than "Huge bodytype = tanker". And the game does not care what your appearance is with relation to your archetype.
But that's just my opinion, and I cannot claim that the devs share it.
Current main:
Schrodinger's Gun, Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster, Virtue
Avatar: Becky Miyamoto from Pani Poni Dash. Roulette roulette~
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And to ask what will it bother if someone is wearing a stupid costume. What will it bother if someone wants to called their hero Streetwalker69 or SatanicSchoolSux? Does it physically impede our gameplay? No. But is it something we want to see in the game? No. Will most people send a petition? Yes. Same thing goes for costumes as it does for names. You are welcomed to make whatever look you want, and the rest of us are still free to ridicule and put our votes in against things like giant skull monsters for heroes.
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I'd actually disagree, and say that no, most people would not send a /petition for "immersion-breaking" names (that aren't in violation of the EULA), largely for the same reason that the devs refuse to designate an "official RP server".
Current main:
Schrodinger's Gun, Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster, Virtue
Avatar: Becky Miyamoto from Pani Poni Dash. Roulette roulette~
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Anyone that considers Spawn and Punisher to be "good guys" and "heroes" has no reason to be commenting on comic books at all. Unless you definition of good guy is killin people?
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No...obviously if you kill anyone you cannot be a hero. Screw the police and the military. They must be all pure evil since they kill people when they have to! You have opened my eyes! No longer will I think or Police or Military are heroes that keep us safe!
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lol I have to ask if you really believe that? That a policeman shooting a perp in the line of duty, or a solider shooting someone in war is the same as the Punisher busting in a mafioso's gamblishing establishment and gunning everyone down? If you honestly believe that Spawn and Punisher are the same type of heroes as a police officer or soldier, then:
1)You are far beyond the realm of being able to determine what a true hero is.
2)You need to check yourself into some counseling.
Police and soldiers kill people because the HAVE to. The Punisher and Spawn(among others) kill people because they CHOOSE to. Big difference.
This is my last post before I hit the rack. Thanks for the discussion, and sleep well stapler.
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This is a game of superheroes. If it was merely a game of heroes doctors, firefighters, and my grandpa would be in it. I didn't buy this game to be a boat commander in World War II, no matter how heroic that is. I bought it to throw on a costume and fly through the air and fight bad guys just like in the comic books that inspired the game.
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Yeah, but what if I want to play a boat commander that has risen from his watery grave to take on the forces of the Penumbra Council? Or a fireman whom the Hellions burned to death and is now surrounded by a the aura of the very fire that took his life?
Aren't those heroic?
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Jason Voorhies or He-man could be a tanker and Freddy a scrapper. Ash could be a blaster. Yet are those people we wanna see in this game? And while some might actually say yes, I vote an astounding no.
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Jason, no. City of Villians, oh yeah.
He-Man? What's wrong with him? Actually, that might be a cool idea. "BY THE POWER OF GREYSKULL!"
Freddy? City of Villians, definately.
Ash? City of Heroes, oh yeah.
Sadly, I could make all of those with the existing CoH costume parts, barring Jason's hockey mask.
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And to ask what will it bother if someone is wearing a stupid costume. What will it bother if someone wants to called their hero Streetwalker69 or SatanicSchoolSux? Does it physically impede our gameplay? No. But is it something we want to see in the game? No.
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Stupid costumes don't bother me. Stupid names I laugh at, but costumes? No.
Remember those horrible 1960's X-Men outfits? BLECH!
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Will most people send a petition? Yes. Same thing goes for costumes as it does for names. You are welcomed to make whatever look you want, and the rest of us are still free to ridicule and put our votes in against things like giant skull monsters for heroes.
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Sending a petition against stupid costumes or names means you take this WAAAAAY too seriously. So what if he is named "Eye Gouger Smurf" and is a blue scrapper in a doofy wardrobe. Don't team with him.
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And it's mainstream majority of comic readers that want the ideal look for their heroes. Otherwise Superman would be fat, Wonder Woman a guy in drag, and Spider-man would have a nubbin.
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Wow, how nice of you to speak for all of us mainstream comic readers.
I guess because I worry more about deeds than appearance, names, and bluster, DC will send someone over to rip up my Superman collection.
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And Deathlok(at least the Luthor Manning version) wasn't interesting because he was ugly. He was interesting because he was a pacifist trapped in the ultimate weapon. The dichotomy there made him interesting. If being fugly was all it took, Beak would have his own comic.
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He wasn't interesting because he was ugly, but he WAS ugly AND heroic.
Look, I understand you are passionate about this game, and want it your way, to create your perfect City of Heroes.
But one person's perfection is another person's nightmare.
I think the idea of playing the Mime of Death supervillian is starting to sound pretty cool, so I better go to bed.
Sleep well, notmystapler, and I'll read your counterpoint tommorrow.
"If you build it, they will run you over with it."-RPG Designers Mantra
Working on: YotZ Legends: Even Heroes Die (First Round Edit)
No counterpoint. This is one of those things where no one is going to sway the other side to their way of thinking.(maybe I'm just tired). We all have our vision of the game and what we would like. However, ultimately it's going to be the Devs. States has already said that CoV options are coming over, now it's just a matter of what.
PS- I've never petitioned a name/costume unless it was obscene or violated copyright.
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[Integrity of the game has to apply to the entire spectrum of players-- even those who think that school girls in minskirts and sailor suits are heroic and those who think that the tooth fairy is evil.
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Well, they are heroic in Japan. Although I am really dissapointed that there are no tentacled monster costume options.