Or Endless Ages.
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As for the supposed "emphasis" on PvP - I think you'll see that it's just ONE part of City of Villains. It has PvE content levels 1 to 50.
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... 1 to 50? At launch? 
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PWNED
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Er, no, not "pwned". Where in the quote does Statesman say the game will have level 40+ content when it ships? The devs have already confirmed CoV will ship with level 1-40 content. They'll add 40-50 in the first issue, much as they did with CoH. That content simply won't be finished at the time CoV gets released.
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I still say... PWNED
Oh, brother. I give up. Think what you like.
I'd also like to apologize to everyone for actually having fun while playing the game after Issue 5 was released. Obviously I am doing something wrong!
Personally... I hated I5 and I4.... they had nothing in them I enjoyed... only things that made the game less-fun for me. Just my opinion...
Though I do agree with some of the OP's points, like the costume mess-up, I disagree with an important point:
Yes, missions do get repetitive after a while. Of course you know the warehouse tileset by lvl10 and there will still be warehouses at lvl50. We all love getting new tilesets.
BUT, have you actually played through the story arcs again? Only some days ago I RSKed to a lower hero and helped her do the "Will of the Earth" arc. I hate DE, but those new mission kinds (rescue hostages) and many new spawns (the big DE spawning chambers and the Will crystals) made it all really enjoyable for me.
You can not accuse Cryptic of not updating "old" content because they have been constantly redoing it (see also WarWith's replies to her thread to see the desire to update the original content). And I am pretty sure that as soon as CoV is live, the effort between the games will be split again (now they're understandably focusing on villains) and CoH will get its fair share of newish glitter.
I won't even get started on changes due to "boring PvE", I still think that's crock. There was an imbalance (and still is) to the game and it was IMO tackled from the wrong direction.
I am no fan of PvP and am not really looking forward to this, but at least we have "Capture the Flag"-like PvP zones now, maybe that's a little more fun than the straight ahead Arena, also considering that the ATs from the games differ. I do hope though that the work put into PvP ends there and the devs focus on what the game is really about and what it still needs.
Poison � Sabbath
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You answered most of your questions yourself. The writing is on the wall, all their eggs in one basket as you put it. I5 was the beginning of the transition of turning CoH from a PvE based experience into one focused on the PvP aspects to be introduced with CoV.
A majority of future content, I would wager especially end game content, is meant to be player generated...ie:PvP.
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Erm. No. PvP will be an optional part of gameplay. Always.
The changes in I5 had very little to do with PvP and a lot to do with boring PvE. It's that simple. No conspiracy there - I think I've stated this several times.
As for the supposed "emphasis" on PvP - I think you'll see that it's just ONE part of City of Villains. It has PvE content levels 1 to 50.
We'll continue to add new PvE content (which I5 did exclusively, I might add) in the future.
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...you once said you could tweak powers for pve and pvp seperately, kind of like making 2 rulesets but i guess you opened your mouth before engaging your brain on that one.
He said they would do that when they could. He never said that's all they would do.
Any word on the teleport-animation bug? I've never seen it even achknowledged as a bug. While annoying in normal use it's extremely painful for the combat-teleporting stone-tank (which pretty much means every stone-tank out thtere) because it actually holds/freezes you mid-combat.
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As for the supposed "emphasis" on PvP - I think you'll see that it's just ONE part of City of Villains. It has PvE content levels 1 to 50.
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... 1 to 50? At launch?
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PWNED
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Not really.
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He said they would do that when they could. He never said that's all they would do.
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Well, tinfoil-hat theory doesn't allow for that particular factoid.
The blame-PvP camp has become sufficiently entrenched that no amount of evidence or official statements will be sufficient to disprove.
It's the logical problem with conspiracy theory -- evidence to the contrary is just a manipulation of the conspiracy.
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WoW has shown that an MMO *can* get a userbase in the millions.
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Just want to pop in and say that it was actually Lineage that proved it, which is produced by NCSoft. www.mmogchart.com shows it pretty clearly that 2 NCSoft games(Lineage and Lineage 2) had a userbase of over a million before WoW was even on the market.
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The changes in I5 had very little to do with PvP and a lot to do with boring PvE. It's that simple. No conspiracy there - I think I've stated this several times.
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*Jagged sprinkles some salt*
I am sorry but I do not believe you. I come at this from an Inv Tank's point of view. Perhaps I can explain why:
Invincibility
You are often quoted as saying that if a tank could stand in the middle of 50 mobs with no danger then something is wrong (or something close to that). Yet the changes to Inv tanks under I5 leave that ability in tact yet massively weaken my ability to handle AVs (the single biggest reason my tank was ever invited to a team).
So I look at my Tank and see that all my defensive powers have been massively reduced except the one that provides no benefit in PvP. Yet this is the one everyone expected (requested even) to be nerfed!
I would love to understand your reasoning for this, I have tried to look for explainations other than PvP and CoV but I just can't see them.
I look at CoV and see the the total absence of defensive primaries. To adapt my char to I5 I need to build it like a scrapper. In short you have failed to find a blanace for defensive characters so my Inv Tank's Primary is no longer my characters primary ability.
I hope that sheds (shreds?) some light on where posters like myself are coming from.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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WoW has shown that an MMO *can* get a userbase in the millions.
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Just want to pop in and say that it was actually Lineage that proved it, which is produced by NCSoft. www.mmogchart.com shows it pretty clearly that 2 NCSoft games(Lineage and Lineage 2) had a userbase of over a million before WoW was even on the market.
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The author of MMOGChart explicitly states, as have other sources, that publisher-reported subscriber statistics are less reliable in the Asian market, due to complicated pricing structures and the popularity of bulk account purchases for Internet gaming houses popular throughout Asia.
The Lineage games appear to be the biggest benefactor of such reporting, and WoW to a lesser extent.
EDIT: Why do I find myself continually parroting this point? Either people fail to read the rather important qualifiers on the MMOGChart notes, or deliberately choose to ignore them in order to make a point.
I hate to sound like a fanboy here, but the kind of access we have to the devs in this game has spoiled many people. No, I'm not naming any names, so no-one need feel I'm talking about them personally.
When I was two years in DAoC, we had no official boards in the UK, and even in the US (afair) the best they had was the equivalent of CuppaJo - who posted once a week. Of course people still [censored] and whined - but they didn't think for one minute that the devs would ever read a single word any of them wrote.
Although I'm one of the players on the wrong end of the shaft (see sig) I am still having lots of fun. Yes, there are things that I feel should be done differently, but with all the stuff that goes down, we still have the most responsive team of devs of any MMORPG (other than A Tale in the Desert - where the guy who wrote it gave out his personal details to all the players during beta :-))
Moth Twiceborn, Slan, Mr. Long
Jane Droid, 43 Earth/Emp, Alix Frost, 43 Ice/Eng
Warlock Krelleth, Level 50 Zombie Mastermind
Virtue Server
"Some people find fault as if it were buried treasure"
Repetitive Content.
The one thing that is slowly starting to drive me away.
I've got 3 50's and one low end 40 PB. I'm looking forward to
finishing the story arc, but what then?
Give me an incentive to play. Forget the extra zones for now.
Give me some new plot lines and missions!
(and tilesets)
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You answered most of your questions yourself. The writing is on the wall, all their eggs in one basket as you put it. I5 was the beginning of the transition of turning CoH from a PvE based experience into one focused on the PvP aspects to be introduced with CoV.
A majority of future content, I would wager especially end game content, is meant to be player generated...ie:PvP.
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Erm. No. PvP will be an optional part of gameplay. Always.
The changes in I5 had very little to do with PvP and a lot to do with boring PvE. It's that simple. No conspiracy there - I think I've stated this several times.
As for the supposed "emphasis" on PvP - I think you'll see that it's just ONE part of City of Villains. It has PvE content levels 1 to 50.
We'll continue to add new PvE content (which I5 did exclusively, I might add) in the future.
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States, no offense man, but "boring" by who's definition? I would venture to say that the majority of us were having a great time before the "fun" of all the nerfing came.
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Have to say people are definitely reading this differently than I am... some are reading it thinking Statesman says PVE is boring - I'm reading it as ... i don't think sarcastic is the word. Facetious, perhaps. Sort of like someone coming up and saying "Yeah, I know, birthdays are so overrated, *sigh* it's the only time people come up and give you stuff for no good reason" while handing you a wad of money, or a set of car keys or some such. (No, never got a car, or a "Wad" of money, but you get what I mean...)
8% of the player base has a level 50
A smaller proportion has multiple 50's
So MOST people havent even worked through all the story arcs in the game at the moment.
best investment for Dev time and new zones is in the pre-50 game at this point. (that will change soon).
Soem of us still liek to raid Hami (even if we fail).
Some of us do go to the arena with friends/SG and mix and match teams and have a riotious blast. (distinctly non-uber PvP)
We exemp, we pick Kora, we do old TF's, we help friends with AV's. I am not bored at 50 - YET.
I would love to see where the median and modal highest charcter per account falls.
I'm guessing at the moment into the 25-35 range for Croatoa, which is why that content is geared to that level range.
Having said that, I would love to see a commitment for new tilesets and new maps using the existing ones.
I know my way round some warehouses and offices blindfold - know where the spawns will be the likely location of hostages and glowies, mixing things up moe here will make existing content seem refreshed and anew.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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best investment for Dev time and new zones is in the pre-50 game at this point. (that will change soon).
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I'm kind of divided on this issue.
When a character hits 50 (well, it's happened to me only once, but I'd do the same no matter how many times I get a 50), I find that I'd like content for two things:
- Something for my 50 to do, so I don't have to stand around in Gemini Park RPing away when I could be doing something.
- Some low-level content for the alts I invariably roll.
There's nothing quite so demoralizing as taking three characters (per server) on the exact same story arcs at the same time. It's irritating to have to find a team for Dr. Vahzilok for my Peacebringer... then my tanker... then my controller...
So yes, I'm quite happy that there's any new content that provides an alternate route for my characters, but I haven't touched my 50 in several months, save for powers-testing around Peregrine. Even Hamidon raids get really, really old after a while.
Current main:
Schrodinger's Gun, Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster, Virtue
Avatar: Becky Miyamoto from Pani Poni Dash. Roulette roulette~
One thing I find interesting up thread is the comment about Frostfire.
Some people like the new zones specific arcs, others find them repetetive because EVERYONE ends up doing the same missions.
Now this suggestion is a heck of a lot of extra work in missions scripting, but gets more out of the zone design.
Have 2 or 3 paths from the initial contact that eventually merge at the final one.
So Wincott introduces to an outcast a troll or a CoT, whom pushes you onto to a 2nd in the same path and finally a 3rd whom introduces to Talshak.
Each would have a different Elite boss at the approrpiate places.
So a team could have members with 3 different arcs ongoing.
Croatoa could push you into
1) Cabal heavy arc
2) fir Bolg heavy Arc
3) Tuatha Heavy arc
4) red Cap heavy arc.
All of which would have similar progression, and end up at the same place in the TF, but provides much more game play in the single zone.
Boomtown could be reworked into having a series of linked contacts that give
1) ouscasts and trolls missions
2) Lost and Vahz missions
3) council missions
4) clockwork missions.
I guess what this boils down to, is it harder to design zones or a series of missions.
- If mission are the easier portion, then more per zone is the best way for new content.
- If new zones are easier the I guess the existing way is the best.
Sure will some of us bemoan the fact that we cant do ALL the content in the zone (we we can but have to teamor roll alts), but isn't that the Vision ?
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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I hate to sound like a fanboy here, but the kind of access we have to the devs in this game has spoiled many people. No, I'm not naming any names, so no-one need feel I'm talking about them personally.
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There's a difference in being spoiled and taking things to their logical extension. Yes, good things happen because we have devs that read our posts and actually act on the information.
My complaint is that this is done so in an obviously selective way without forthright explanation. Sure, the forums are a source of info about honest mistakes the Devs made, and they react and fix those things. They're a source of info about things the Devs never thought of, and they react to those things, if they're important.
But they're also a source of huge volumes of feedback that gets no response. And I'm sorry, I don't buy that no one has time to respond to them. Every month you could extract from these forums two to three hotbutton issues and put up one long post addressing them.
And when I say address them I don't mean "cave in to the masses". I mean address people's concerns and questions, and that can mean "No, and here's why." There are so many things done in I5 that appear broken balance-wise that have never gotten one moment of dev airtime despite being brought up constantly by posters. If there is some intended balance behind the changes why can't it simply be explained? Balance is partially art but there's science behind it too. Telling me how bored I was doesn't constitute proof of balance. Show us numbers. Give us examples of things they saw people doing they shouldn't have, and apply some consistent rules about what we should and shouldn't be doing.
If the issues were really addressed fully, formally and as conclusively as possible, I believe it would still the vast majority of posters who spend lots of time (like me) constantly re-airing these long-running issues. I may not like a particular answer, but if I understand it I can let it go.
If the devs are going to communicate with us at all about issues, that sets an expectation that the communication should, eventually, get around to all the issues. That would be incredibly useful. For the past two years post-beta, it's been conditionally useful; it's useful to us when it matches the Dev's goals, but if we're a voice of dissent about something they've done we largely go unanswered. It's fairly natural to wonder if there's a really a good reason for something when it doesn't make any sense you can see and the people who did it won't give you an explanation. I don't think there's anything "spoiled" about becoming annoyed with the consistency with which that happens.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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The changes in I5 had very little to do with PvP and a lot to do with boring PvE.
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With the exception of the content gap in levels 35-40 PvE was not boring prior to I5. Now unfortunately it is.
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8% of the player base has a level 50
A smaller proportion has multiple 50's
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Ya know.... I remember when this number came out. I didn't buy it then, and I still don't buy it.
It only took me 4 months to get Bill to 50. Without powerleveling. (Mind you for the most of that four months I was on an extended vacation so I played 12 hours a day)
Celmor got to 50 in like 6 months. Maybe less.. can't remember when I-3 came out. Again, no powerleveling beyond less than a level. (Had to find out what was so wonderful about wolf-herding. Bored me to tears.)
If I can get 2 50s in under a year, working now 40 hrs a week, with a son and wife, taking care of dogs, only getting long game time runs when everyone's crashed or I take a day off....
I just find it impossible to believe that only 8% of the playerbase has a 50.
Just doesn't jive with logic.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Erm. No. PvP will be an optional part of gameplay. Always.
The changes in I5 had very little to do with PvP and a lot to do with boring PvE. It's that simple. No conspiracy there - I think I've stated this several times.
As for the supposed "emphasis" on PvP - I think you'll see that it's just ONE part of City of Villains. It has PvE content levels 1 to 50.
We'll continue to add new PvE content (which I5 did exclusively, I might add) in the future.
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First, I have to wonder if the statement about PvP/PvE is like Soloing/Teaming. Anymore when I log on, I either team exclusively, or solo exclusively. After I've left a team, if I try to solo a mission, I get mission spawns that reflect the size of the team that I just left. I shouldn't get 5 +1 minions as a spawn in a heroic mission. But, I do. I'm not sure if it's a bug, or part of the new encouragement towards teaming.
Secondly, I (like many others who play this game) could not care less about PvP. As far as I'm concerned, it's a waste of time, effort and money. Frankly, I don't care how much content is put in for PvP. I won't see it. I won't try it. I've had too many bad experiences with PvP in other games. My fervent hope is that the CoV/CoH PvP zone(s) see less use than the arenas do now.
Thirdly, about the "boring" PvE, some of us were having fun. That said, I should point out that fun is now (courtesy of Statesman) an absolute value, instead of a subjective one. What could I have been thinking?
Lancelot Strong --
Level 50 Inv/SS Tanker on Triumph [Retired]
Tashkent Zen --
Level 25 Mind/Psi Dominator on Virtue
Hector Slade --
Level 34 SS/WP Brute on Virtue
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WoW has shown that an MMO *can* get a userbase in the millions.
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Just want to pop in and say that it was actually Lineage that proved it, which is produced by NCSoft. www.mmogchart.com shows it pretty clearly that 2 NCSoft games(Lineage and Lineage 2) had a userbase of over a million before WoW was even on the market.
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True but the vast majority of both lineage game subscribers is focused in Korea. WoW has over 2 million customers on the western side of the world (europe, canada, australia, USA). Also the person pluralized millions.. 1 million would not be pluralized
Or Star Wars: Galaxies.