What gives? CoH<CoV for content
By
Acetylene_Torch,
Posted on: 2005-09-29 11:54 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
You are lucky they add anything to the game at all. It isn't like adding to the game is normal behavior or anything.
For most MORPs the monthly subscription cost is for the servers so you can play, not for anything else. EQ released like 3 free zones over 5 years with a whole lot more people paying, while releasing 6 $50 expansions.
WoW has been out less than a year and is ready to release it's first expansion. WoW has released a few new areas but nothing close to the additional content/powers/costumes that CoH has. Heck WoW hasn't even fixed all it's release bugs yet.
Whine all you want, you are not going to get a much better deal from a much more professional company than you are getting here. This is a quality product at a good price. My only fear is of Cryptic announcing cut backs. 
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You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
As far as pricing goes, I actually need more details to make a decision on how reasonable it is.
Extreme Possibility #1: The game costs $50, and there's an extra $5 a month if you play both. Thus, buying and playing it for a month costs $55.
Extreme Possibility #2: The game costs $50, BUT that includes a free month, and there's no extra charge for playing both games. In that case, the expansion will actually cost me $35.
It could be somewhere inbetween these two extremes. I don't know, but if Extreme Possibity #2 comes true, then CoV won't actually cost me much more than a regular expansion pack.
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Being that I was here from the beginning, I can promise you that bases were NEVER promised. NEVER. It wasn't on the box, on the website or in any promo material. The most we ever said was - "someday we'd like to do bases."
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Uh, you obviously *CAN* do bases as they're going to be in CoV. But if I'm reading this thread right, you just aren't WILLING to do bases without the purchase of CoV.
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They could also let us play the game for free, while continuing to update it. No wait, they could pay US to play it!
Jeez. What the heck are people thinking? Cryptic is trying to make money, and more power to them. So long as they are offering something I want, I'll be happy to pay them money.
I honestly don't understand how some people figure they are ENTITLED to hundreds of man-hours worth of features for free.
What they're WILLING to do is offer us features they believe are worth another $50 bucks. It's up to each of us to decide if that's true, and there's certainly nothing dark or sinister about it.
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Thell me, Soe's expansion packs, are they playable without the base game?
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Ah, but I already have CoV's base game in CoH. Kind of a moot point to anyone who isn't buying CoV first.
[/ QUOTE ]No, really, you don't. You have the sister game to CoV.
Folding@Home
Photoshop doesn't make a good artist.
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In actuality CoV is a STAND ALONE EXPANSION to CoH
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I don't think these two things can be true at the same time...
How can a game be stand-alone AND an expansion?
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I *can* give my television to the people who live next door. If I tell them I've got an extra TV, they may even be hoping that I do. That doesn't mean it's OK for them to knock on my door and say, "Where's that TV you promised us."
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Well, just the for argument, if I were to say to my neighbors, "I'm hoping to give my neighbors a tv when I have an extra one." And then say, "My new house I'm moving to has an extra TV." I can't be shocked at their disappointment when they found out that I meant they'd have to be my neighbors at my new house in order to get the TV.
Emmert in response to question about there eventually being bases in CoH: "someday we'd like to do bases."
Emmert in response to question about the progress of bases in CoH: "bases are in City of Villains."
The simple answer of "bases are in City of Villains" seemed more a progress report to show that they will in fact exist as opposed to a statement of their exclusion from CoH.
Now we're told you have to have CoV to have bases.
I mean, you may not understand the disappointment, but certainly you can understand how there could be disappointment, right? 
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In actuality CoV is a STAND ALONE EXPANSION to CoH
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I don't think these two things can be true at the same time...
How can a game be stand-alone AND an expansion?
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If you own CoH, it is similar to an expansion.
If you do not own CoH, it is stand-alone.
Folding@Home
Photoshop doesn't make a good artist.
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Not to mention the bit you quoted said nothing about it being promised.. and they were 100% we were told bases would be coming and all these other great features would show up.. it was left ambigious back then b/c you had no clue or no intention of releasing what was going to be in CoV b/c it was far to early to.
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Got links/articles/dialogs/screenies to prove that?
I've been a forumwhore here for a very LONG time and never once heard anyone mention that bases were A) a definite or B) Would be a free CoH feature if they were. No one believes these things except those voices in your head.
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CoH has spoiled us a little by giving us so many free updates. However, it is still reasonable for them to make something and put it up for sale.
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So true.
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My appologies, if this is the case. I have not seen anything saying they would be patching to correct this issue.
Taken from a dev post:
"<[CS]Zeb> To get the benefits of the new features in CoV, CoH players will need a copy of CoV. You don't need to play a villain, just have a copy of the sequel.
<[CS]Zeb> Doing that will give you access to the PvP zones we're introducing and the base building features. Other minor features will be added later that expand both"
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so....I don't have to deal with PVP if I don't get CoV? SCORE! NCsoft just lost my 50 bux!
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Who is this Statesman character claiming he has been here from the beginning
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your kidding right everyone know's who statesman is he is the biggest hero of CoH watch some trailers or look at some story lines
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(I've been playing CoV beta and from what I've experienced, it's not worth $49.99 to those who've already spent over a year playing this game.)
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You know that statement has just broken the NDA, right?
(Added: not to mention your subsequent ones in this thread where you discuss actual play experience.)
...
The Watchbird: Level 50 Invulnerability/Energy Tanker
Unholy Terrorizer Level 50 Dark/Dark Brute
Granite Slam: Level 46 Stone/Stone Tanker
Ghost's Shadow: Level 35 Assault Rifle/Energy Blaster
Hola Chico: Level 30 Robots/Traps Mastermind
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(I've been playing CoV beta and from what I've experienced, it's not worth $49.99 to those who've already spent over a year playing this game.)
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You know that statement has just broken the NDA, right?
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It has? How so?
If it has, please feel free to apply a ruler to my knuckles with a measure of extreme prejudice.
Apparently you are discussing the gameplay of COV, which would fall under confidential information in any NDA of any beta I've been in before.
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Apparently you are discussing the gameplay of COV, which would fall under confidential information in any NDA of any beta I've been in before.
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Oh, when you said "the NDA", I thought you were discussing the NDA for this particular beta test and not the myriad of beta tests you've participated in in the past. 
More seriously, the NDA was the last thing I was thinking about when posting but if I have not held up my end of the agreement in any way, then by all means, they should lock me up and throw away the key.
Have not read the NDA, but from what I have seen, is this not exactly what has been reported to us from other sources prior to the launch of Beta?
If so, in most cases the NDA would not cover what has already been discussed in public, unless there is a gag-order portion as well.
regs,
muffinlad
(ps. Not a lawyer, but a Software CEO, so I see NDA's all the time....and I have NOT seen this one, and am not a beta tester)
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Ok, so we were told that we would be getting bases when CoH came out, and all these great things would be coming.
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Being that I was here from the beginning, I can promise you that bases were NEVER promised. NEVER. It wasn't on the box, on the website or in any promo material. The most we ever said was - "someday we'd like to do bases."
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What about the SG Vaults you once mentioned as a possibility in the meantime? A place for SGs to vault enhancements and such. I believe you mentioned access from City Hall, at the time. There were boards before these that, afaik, can't be searched that lead up to the launch of COH, too.
Obviously, Cryptic knows CoV isn't a slam dunk and a lot of CoH players aren't interested. So they have to withhold features from players that aren't buying CoV to try to get them to shell out the cash (and possibly a higher subscription fee).
So far, I'm not buying CoV. What does CoV offer the CoH player who isn't interested in PvP? Just bases? What use are bases to a CoH player not interested in PvP since we won't be interested in the Crash Bandicoot power crystal raids?
New ATs and Powersets to play in CoH (if you take the time to do the side-switching, whenever that comes available).
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No, it's a perfectly good example. Both Ford and Cryptic made a product and are asking you for money. If you don't pay the money, you don't get the product.
This is completely reasonable.
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Okay, I read you as equating "upgrading CoH by purchasing CoV" to "upgrading your car by purchasing factory options." Which wouldn't be the case, but also not what you're saying.
To say that CoV is the "2006 model of CoH" works better for me, and I understand and agree with your point.
My entire reason for posting is Emmert's statement:
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The most we ever said was - "someday we'd like to do bases."
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Because it seemed that he meant "someday we'd like to do bases for CoH." Which would be silly because they obviously *can* do bases. It's apparent that what he actually meant was "we'd like to do bases for extra profit."
There's obviously nothing wrong with that, but still disappointing to me (I've been playing CoV beta and from what I've experienced, it's not worth $49.99 to those who've already spent over a year playing this game.)
Anyway, not trying to whine. Just pointing out what seemed inconsistencies which have now been cleared up.
Cheers!
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I was thinking back to beta and I remember them saying "we'd like to make bases shortly after release". They never said "we'd like to make bases for COH", and COV wasn't announced yet at the time if I remember correctly. That's probably where the confusion is coming from.
Emerald Sky
@Emerald Sky
@Lava Dome
@Power Chip
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Have not read the NDA, but from what I have seen, is this not exactly what has been reported to us from other sources prior to the launch of Beta?
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Well I expect a lot of the gameplay to be similar to CoH, but I don't think any public statements went about saying this was all there was to CoV's gameplay. There was some info about PvP and base raids released. But they didn't say it was all they added. So if he's right about this, then he just released confidential info...
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My appologies, if this is the case. I have not seen anything saying they would be patching to correct this issue.
Taken from a dev post:
"<[CS]Zeb> To get the benefits of the new features in CoV, CoH players will need a copy of CoV. You don't need to play a villain, just have a copy of the sequel.
<[CS]Zeb> Doing that will give you access to the PvP zones we're introducing and the base building features. Other minor features will be added later that expand both"
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so....I don't have to deal with PVP if I don't get CoV? SCORE! NCsoft just lost my 50 bux!
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You also don't have to deal with PvP if you DO get CoV. What's your point?
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Would bases only be allowed to be built in the CoV/CoH PvP combat zones?
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I certainly hope not. I have a character who is her own supergroup and I want her base/warren to be in the middle of the Perez Park maze.
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Ok, so we were told that we would be getting bases when CoH came out, and all these great things would be coming.
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Being that I was here from the beginning, I can promise you that bases were NEVER promised. NEVER. It wasn't on the box, on the website or in any promo material. The most we ever said was - "someday we'd like to do bases."
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LOL not surprising really. Like many of the other sayings from the early days such as "PvP will not effect PvE" and "We want the game to cater to casual/solo players".
So is CoV an expansion or a stand alone then? I don't think I've ever seen a clear answer. Only comments that happen to fit whatever view the devs need at the moment. When convenient to the devs it is an expansion. When convenient it is a stand alone game.
*shrug*
It's a shame to see the business side coming down so hard on the playerbase with the coming of CoV. A lot of the ideals of the early days are washed away to make room for bags of money. In anycase I don't really need a base that bad. You can keep CoV out of my CoH, thanks.
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Using the same system of thought... here's to praying for Galaxy of Heroes!
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/sign for Galaxy of Heroes
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Thell me, Soe's expansion packs, are they playable without the base game?
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Ah, but I already have CoV's base game in CoH. Kind of a moot point to anyone who isn't buying CoV first.
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Didn't think so.. and those gold issues that include the base game how much do they cost at release? Oh yeah 49.99$
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First time I saw SWG: Total Experience (which is the base game plus two expansions, one of which introduces an entirely new playing experience) on the shelves it was $39.99.
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And how many free updates are SOE giving for EQ2? Oh yeah the first 1 and then you have to pay for the issues...
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I don't know about EQ or EQ2. High Fantasy games are for nerds.