What gives? CoH<CoV for content

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OK, Long time listener, first time poster. I have a quick question on the bases. Let's say I join an SG that has a base, but I don't have CoV. Can I still enter the base, or am I simply restricted from building my own base by my lack of CoV ownership? Thanks in advance for any answers.

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From what I understand, you'll be able to enter your own SG's base w/o having to purchase CoV. You won't be able to participate in base raids OR base building if you haven't already bought it, however.

That's just what I've understood in reading the dev posts.

J.

Of course I'm speaking with no factual basis or shred of reality...

but... if CoH players can only have bases if they also run CoV as part of their account, how would this be implemented? Would bases only be allowed to be built in the CoV/CoH PvP combat zones? Taking that one step further, would CoH account holders be restricted from entering the PvP zones if they don't also own Cov? That would limit the PvP content in either game to players that owned both games, right?

So if you have a CoH SG and half the members own Cov and half don't, the have nots are pretty much outta luck for using the SG's base.

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So many peole are expecting a game that's totally different b/c they're being told its (CoV) a different game. Its actualy the same game with all new content and AT. While techincally it (CoV) maybe a different game.. its (CoV) really just CoH rewrapped with some new features.

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(I edited my quote of your post to make it clearer to those who have short retention spans.)

I don't think that what you wrote means what you think it thinks. To paraphrase what you wrote:

People think it's different because it's different. While it is different, it is the same because it is different.

Statesman has never said that we'll get bases without CoV. Never.

On 11/09/04 (click here) he said they were part of CoV.

When people say they remember the devs saying we'd have them in CoH, that's just wishful thinking. I just did a search for and comments Statesman has made in the last 3 years on bases, and he's never said that.

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You don't like to be flamed? Dude, you are so totally on the wrong forums. This is the Flaming Capital.

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No, these people are all warm and fuzzy compaired to the Postal 2 forums. THEY are nasty.

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So many peole are expecting a game that's totally different b/c they're being told its a different game. Its actualy the same game with all new content and AT. While techincally it maybe a different game.. its really just CoH rewrapped with some new features.

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This is true of almost every sequel ever made. Tony Hawk 2? They added a new trick, made some new levels and objectives, then charged full pirce for it even though it is essentially the same game. Half-Life 2: same thing. Grand Turisimo 2, Tekken 2, Jak and Daxter 2, Doom 2, Warcraft 2: SAME THING.

Of course it uses the same core system as CoH, it wouldn't be a sequel if it didn't. That doesn't mean it isn't a new game.

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What a peculiarly SOE approach.

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Not just SOE. Ford does the same thing. They *CAN* put almost every bonus feature into every car they make, but they're only *WILLING* to do it in the cars for which people pay for the bonus packages.

Airlines *CAN* give First Class service to every passenger, but they're only *WILLING* to give it to the the people who pay for it.


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I realize the point your making, but these are bad examples. Ford doesn't ask you to buy an additional full priced car in order to get the optional features, as a matter of fact, you can pick and choose which features you'd like added to your car and pay a little bit more for those. First Class/Coach analogy is similar, depending on the airline, you don't have to pay for another full price coach seat to upgrade to first class.

The only other MMO company I have experience with is SOE, but I guess this is pretty standard fair across the board. Still, $49.99 is too much to pay for an expansion. SOE's expansion packs I've purchased (Galaxies) didn't cost that much.

Statesman, I for one never expected bases to be available to non-CoV people. However, this is yet another example of your commitment to murkiness biting you in the rear.

Full disclose, early and often. Facts are your friends.

No, it's a perfectly good example. Both Ford and Cryptic made a product and are asking you for money. If you don't pay the money, you don't get the product.

This is completely reasonable.

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Statesman, I for one never expected bases to be available to non-CoV people. However, this is yet another example of your commitment to murkiness biting you in the rear.

Full disclose, early and often. Facts are your friends.

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Dude, no. Direct quote from Statesman:

Bases are CoV.

There was no murkiness on Statesman's part, only wishful thinking on our part.

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I realize the point your making, but these are bad examples. Ford doesn't ask you to buy an additional full priced car in order to get the optional features, as a matter of fact, you can pick and choose which features you'd like added to your car and pay a little bit more for those.

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The Ford example is a good example. Once you buy the car and drive it, if you want some features that are in a new car, you need to buy the new car.

Once you get into the picky details, then of course the analogy breaks down. No analogy fits perfectly when you get to the smallest details.

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First Class/Coach analogy is similar, depending on the airline, you don't have to pay for another full price coach seat to upgrade to first class.

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This analogy is more applicable to the "traditional" model of the upgrade path of MMORPGs, like EQ.

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Statesman, I for one never expected bases to be available to non-CoV people. However, this is yet another example of your commitment to murkiness biting you in the rear.

Full disclose, early and often. Facts are your friends.

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No this is not an example of murkiness biting him in the rear. This is an example of people jumping to (incorrect) conclusions based on little or no information and then getting angry when their (incorrect) assumptions are exposed when more information comes out.

On the issue of CoV costing a full $50.

Personally, I'm not so sure that this is a good idea either. They're trying something new. They're making a sequel that can connect to the original game. Nobody complained about Everquest 2 being $50, but that's because it clearly wasn't an expansion.

This isn't the route I would have taken, but they're trying something new. In a few months time, we'll see how it works out. Maybe it'll hurt them, getting few sales. Maybe it'll help them, and tons of people who never played CoH will buy CoV and play it standalone. We'll see.

Like I say, I'm not sure I like the idea of CoV costing $50. However, it does make sense that if we have to pay that much, that we get something that isn't being given away freely to people who didn't pay.

Simple solution then Code, let them sell thier "stand alone" game, but charge only $5/month extra for CoH users to have bases without CoV. You see, im okay with someone wanting to make a buck. But if you put 2 and 2 together, CoH users will get the base building for free eventually, but only after the company makes tons of cash from selling CoV. Why? because everyone is under the impression that they need to.

Yes, some see nothing wrong with buying CoV for $50 and then paying the extra per month charge to have both just so they can have a base as a Superhero, but I do. Easy enough for people to say "dont buy it then", and "quit whining" when they probably are not spending thier own money to play it. Or you got some single guy who has nothing better to do with his money. Which all in fairness is none of my business. But don't flame people who want something fair and affordable. If the devs make those people who actually budget thier money to play CoH or CoV happy, you will have a larger fan base that lasts you for years. We all can live with that, right?

The difference between CoV and CoH, is your a hero in one and a villian in the other. People will still PL, people will still get thier villians nerfed in future updates in CoV. And then before you know it, CoH2 is out.

But guess what, you will need CoH, CoV 1&amp;2 just to be able to drive a vehicle in CoH2. I mean when does it stop?

I play Battlefield 2, I get updates that include new maps, vehicles, troops, weapons and all for free. I don't have any issues with buying an expansion for BF2 that uses the same engine, but changes everything from environment down to the weapons. Plus those expansions are way affordable. So what if I can't play those expansion by themselves, it's not made for that anyways. Your actually going to buy CoV to play it by yourself? Knowing full well you aint going to get to lvl 50 without teaming at some point? Or maybe even by base raiding?

Of course my opinions about cost and what not for CoH and CoV are all speculations, but is it that unbelievable? MMORPG are huge money makers. The devs are not in business to make us totally happy. The more money they make, the more money they need all the sudden. I will stick with CoH cause I enjoy it and cause I will get what I want eventually. They wont stop making content for CoH users, so I will stick it out. CoV can fly a kite. Im no sucker. I get pleasure enough out of causing AV's hell. That's enough of "being bad" to tide me over.

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but charge only $5/month extra for CoH users to have bases without CoV

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And 11 months later, people start getting upset because they realise they got ripped off.

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What a peculiarly SOE approach.

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Not just SOE. Ford does the same thing. They *CAN* put almost every bonus feature into every car they make, but they're only *WILLING* to do it in the cars for which people pay for the bonus packages.

Airlines *CAN* give First Class service to every passenger, but they're only *WILLING* to give it to the the people who pay for it.


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I realize the point your making, but these are bad examples. Ford doesn't ask you to buy an additional full priced car in order to get the optional features, as a matter of fact, you can pick and choose which features you'd like added to your car and pay a little bit more for those. First Class/Coach analogy is similar, depending on the airline, you don't have to pay for another full price coach seat to upgrade to first class.

The only other MMO company I have experience with is SOE, but I guess this is pretty standard fair across the board. Still, $49.99 is too much to pay for an expansion. SOE's expansion packs I've purchased (Galaxies) didn't cost that much.

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Thell me, Soe's expansion packs, are they playable without the base game?

Didn't think so.. and those gold issues that include the base game how much do they cost at release? Oh yeah 49.99$

And how many free updates are SOE giving for EQ2? Oh yeah the first 1 and then you have to pay for the issues...

hmmm....

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but charge only $5/month extra for CoH users to have bases without CoV

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And 11 months later, people start getting upset because they realise they got ripped off.

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You would have to be an idiot not to think your getting ripped off right now. Or your not spending your own money which in turn, it doesnt matter then.

I think you missed the point. $5 a month for one feature would become *more* than $50 for the entire game in less time than CoH has already been out.

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You would have to be an idiot not to think your getting ripped off right now.

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No, you would have to be an idiot to determine that something costs more than you're willing to spend, and spend it anyway.

If the material unique to CoV is worth the cost to an individual, then the individual is not being "ripped off".

If you don't think the material is worth it, don't buy it.

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You would have to be an idiot not to think your getting ripped off right now.

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No, you would have to be an idiot to determine that something costs more than you're willing to spend, and spend it anyway.

If the material unique to CoV is worth the cost to an individual, then the individual is not being "ripped off".

If you don't think the material is worth it, don't buy it.

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Im not going to buy it. You go ahead. I will stay $50 richer, plus whatever per month fee they charge ya. And no, when I bought CoH, not having bases was okay, I didn't feel ripped off then. But I would if I went out and bought CoV. not for me to determine or judge tho. Like I say, I will stick with CoH.

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No, it's a perfectly good example. Both Ford and Cryptic made a product and are asking you for money. If you don't pay the money, you don't get the product.

This is completely reasonable.

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Okay, I read you as equating "upgrading CoH by purchasing CoV" to "upgrading your car by purchasing factory options." Which wouldn't be the case, but also not what you're saying.

To say that CoV is the "2006 model of CoH" works better for me, and I understand and agree with your point.

My entire reason for posting is Emmert's statement:
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The most we ever said was - "someday we'd like to do bases."


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Because it seemed that he meant "someday we'd like to do bases for CoH." Which would be silly because they obviously *can* do bases. It's apparent that what he actually meant was "we'd like to do bases for extra profit."

There's obviously nothing wrong with that, but still disappointing to me (I've been playing CoV beta and from what I've experienced, it's not worth $49.99 to those who've already spent over a year playing this game.)

Anyway, not trying to whine. Just pointing out what seemed inconsistencies which have now been cleared up.

Cheers!

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Im not going to buy it. You go ahead. I will stay $50 richer, plus whatever per month fee they charge ya.

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OK, see, THIS is a reasonable statement. They're not trying to rip you off, they're not lying to you about which product has what. They're offering a product and you're deciding not to buy it.

TOTALLY reasonable. If everone looked at it as "Do I really think that bases are worth what they're charging?" then there would be no problem.

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Because it seemed that he meant "someday we'd like to do bases for CoH." Which would be silly because they obviously *can* do bases. It's apparent that what he actually meant was "we'd like to do bases for extra profit."

There's obviously nothing wrong with that, but still disappointing to me (I've been playing CoV beta and from what I've experienced, it's not worth $49.99 to those who've already spent over a year playing this game.)

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The thing is, you're not dissappointed with something they said, you're dissappointed with something you were hoping for. Statesman said 10 months ago that bases are a CoV feature.

If you were hoping that we could get them without CoV, that's fine. I was hoping that too. It just doesn't make sense to complain about something that we were *hoping* they would do.

I *can* give my television to the people who live next door. If I tell them I've got an extra TV, they may even be hoping that I do. That doesn't mean it's OK for them to knock on my door and say, "Where's that TV you promised us."

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Im not going to buy it. You go ahead. I will stay $50 richer, plus whatever per month fee they charge ya.

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OK, see, THIS is a reasonable statement. They're not trying to rip you off, they're not lying to you about whisch product has what. They're offering a product and you're deciding not to buy it.

TOTALLY reasonable. If everone looked at it as "Do I really think that bases are worth what they're charging?" then there would be no problem.

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Ok, thanks Code. But it isn't my issue if people read my posts and don't get that this is what I have been saying in a nutshell all along. Instead you get flamed for having an opinion and the devs delete your posts and/or topic because they know you make sense but do not want to have a concious about it. iNdy.j out!...im rich beeotch!

Just some new content? I guess from a player's perspective, it's 'just some new content'. But think of it from the Devs' and Company's perseptives. A whole new generator as detialed as the character generator, and four new zones. That's IF you ignore the whole new game that comes with it!

The truth is, they probably wouldn't be able to aford to release this 'new content' if we weren't buying a fiftey dollar package. Just be glade that for your money, you also get a compleatly new game along-side!