Ahhhh...
Finally, I'm convinced the Dev team is listening. I feel much better.
Statesman, this is not the method I'd expected. I'd presumed a change to the number and effectiveness of defense destroynig powers rather than this improvement to SR and tankers. This appears to leave Force Fields out of the loop. And what of pool power defenses?
But... I'll roll with this and see how it works. Anything that gives SRs and Ice Tanks a sporting chance in PvP pleases me.
I'll re-install CoH when these changes hit the test server.
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You don't play much PvP...well, I have fought that same lvl DM/Inv with my DM/SR...quite a few times.
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You can't kill someone with max 75% resists? How do you do against Stone, 90% resists across the board -psi in an armor you can't even detoggle, never mind rooted which gives a regen rate only slightly lower then regen's best intigration. Oh and he also has defense in granite. Or prehaps a White Dwarf with 85% resist to all -psi, still 10% better then your Inv scrapper could get and again can't be detoggled. Heck truth is even the scrapper really couldn't cap his non-S/L then so more like he had 70%. Lets not forget In PvP your crits ignore resists.
All this is silly anyway since I could careless about PvP. In PvE its silly for Inv to have a defense based on number of foes about. It reduces the need for any help once in melee. Getting in may be hard but its not like your team can generally help with that anyway. So you still don't need them unless they happen to have ways to give you defense/resists as you close then its fine they can help while you close once in who cares your defense will be high enough it really will not matter.
Also as for great S/L resists why does Inv need three powers, scrappers 4 powers (they need tough now) to cap S/L when fire can do it with 2, DA with 2, stone with one, and Dwarfs with one. Doesn't sound like great S/L resists if you need 50% more powers (100% for scrappers) and as many or more slots.
Yeah "great" S/L resists.
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Ice Armor does about as well as SR. Ice Tankers have increased survivability because of increased hit points, but you could take Ice in its current form and make it a scrapper set without unbalancing the scrappers who take it.
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That's possibly true, but it's because Ice is balanced against scrapper Invuln and Regen, as well as the new and improved Dark Armor. It would still outdo SR. The upshot of this is that it should be buffed, but not that the sets are equal defensively.
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It's true that Elude has a crash, but you never have to fight when Elude is down, either, and given that an SR could tank pretty much any AV in the game without an autohit power while running Elude... It doesn't matter hit points you have or don't have if you're not getting hit.
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You are getting hit, it's just not more than 5% of the time. How many hit points you have does matter, because many if not most AVs can either one-shot or two-shot a scrapper without Dull Pain (or Hoarfrost). Perhaps not at even levels (that depends on the AV), but if you're on a team you're generally fighting +1 or worse AVs.
Non-AV performance is even more disparate. The extra healing factor of Hoarfrost (+40% health is also +40% regen) makes an enormous difference in how many hits you can take. Beyond the +40% cap, which helps avoid one-shotting or alphas, Hoarfrost is also a periodic self-heal, something which defensive sets badly need and which SR tends to go outside to get an interruptible, powered-down version of for the cost of two powers and a pool selection.
Beyond that, it is extremely unfair to compare SR's performance with Elude to Ice's general performance. Elude is a two-minute click with a crash that flatlines your endurance for one minute afterward, and has, at best, a two-minute down time--okay, 109 seconds if it's six-slotted with +3 recharge and you have Hasten and Quickness. It's only up half the time, and for half of the time that it's up you can't regain endurance. An SR that used it all the time would only move through missions half as fast. Elude should be taken into account in balancing the two, but the indication we should take from it is that Hibernation should be fixed, not that SRs make equivalent tankers.
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Fantastic Statesman!
Question though, when you say lessened by 10.8% does that mean:
A def debuff of 10% is eliminated or;
A def debuff of 10% is reduced to 8.92%?
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The latter.
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WhoopDeDoo... 
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A def debuff of 10% is eliminated or;
A def debuff of 10% is reduced to 8.92%?
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The latter.
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WhoopDeDoo...
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You're not thinking about the fact that a) these stack and b) they don't pay any attention to the sourceof the debuff. I.e., if you have Agile and Dodge, at level 50, incoming defense debuffs are reduced by 21.6% just by those two, regardless of whether the source of the debuff is a ranged, melee or even AoE attack.
All told, a level 50 SR scrapper can have a 97.6% resistance to all defense debuffs before factoring Elude. A level 50 Ice tank can have 81.6% resistance to debuffs. A level 50 stone tank has 81.6% resistance to defense debuffs without Granite Armor running, and 68% while it is running.
After mulling this over for a while, these are my suggestions:
1. Call it something else. Having a game with both "resistance" and "debuff resistance" is begging for confused newbies. This applies to things like Quickness or Speed Boosts debuff resistance as well. I suggest that you say these powers counteract the appropriate debuffs.
2. Reduce SRs debuff counteraction (resistance). SR isn't a tank set, and based on the defensive principles applied elsewhere, it should only achieve 83% of the other sets' maximum debuff resistance (scrapper resistance cap 75%/tanker resistance cap 90%).
3. Buff Ice's counteraction/resistance relative to the other sets'. Ice is a tanker set primarily about defense. It should outdo, in this arena, both a scrapper set and a tanker set not primarily about defense. SR can exceed that temporarily with Elude, which is fine. Ice, by the same token, should have something of this sort applied to Hibernate; perhaps Hibernate should end any defense debuffs currently applied to the character?
4. Fiddle with the numbers to achieve about 75% resistance to debuffs in SR and Stone (not considering Elude and Granite), and about 90% in Ice. I don't know that those are necessarily high enough, but it's a better starting point, IMO.
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2. Reduce SRs debuff counteraction (resistance). SR isn't a tank set, and based on the defensive principles applied elsewhere, it should only achieve 83% of the other sets' maximum debuff resistance (scrapper resistance cap 75%/tanker resistance cap 90%).
4. Fiddle with the numbers to achieve about 75% resistance to debuffs in SR and Stone (not considering Elude and Granite), and about 90% in Ice. I don't know that those are necessarily high enough, but it's a better starting point, IMO.
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I'm sorry, but having endured SR for a fairly hefty time I have to disagree with you there MisterNick.
SR's debuff resistance is that damn high because it has NOTHING else. No self heal, no damage debuff aura, no resistance...nothing but pure defense.
SR is not a tanker set but considering that SR scrappers a) don't have the hit points of tankers or a fair number of other scrappers... b) lack any form of self heal and c) lack resistance SR's resistance to def debuffs needs to be a lot higher than any other sets if it's to stand a chance out there in the big wide world and be comparable to all its fellows.
Stone has resistances and a self heal.
Ice has resistances (although minor), a self heal and a damage debuff aura.
Statesman...I salute you. In PvE SRs are now one step closer to being comparable to their fellow scrappers in survivability.
In PvP however...they're still a joke.
Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!
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2. Reduce SRs debuff counteraction (resistance). SR isn't a tank set, and based on the defensive principles applied elsewhere, it should only achieve 83% of the other sets' maximum debuff resistance (scrapper resistance cap 75%/tanker resistance cap 90%).
4. Fiddle with the numbers to achieve about 75% resistance to debuffs in SR and Stone (not considering Elude and Granite), and about 90% in Ice. I don't know that those are necessarily high enough, but it's a better starting point, IMO.
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I'm sorry, but having endured SR for a fairly hefty time I have to disagree with you there MisterNick.
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Level 45 SR scrapper here, thanks. I don't need this debuff resistance to get by, but it will help to get me closer to "on par" with the other sets. By that token, any resistance to defense debuffs is going to help a lot. I don't need total immunity to them; that's silly, every set should have a weakness. 75%, as I just said above, may not be high enough, but it's better to start low and test it higher than start high and have to reduce it. Actually, I suppose that they've already started high, but it's better to reduce it early and bring it back up than to be forced to reduce it later.
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SR's debuff resistance is that damn high because it has NOTHING else. No self heal, no damage debuff aura, no resistance...nothing but pure defense.
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Well, that's not actually true. It has little else, granted, but it does have a speed buff, recharge buff and slow debuff resistance, all in Quickness. It has extra endurance recovery in Elude. It resists confusion and perception debuffs. It has, bar none, the best self status protection in the game.
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SR is not a tanker set but considering that SR scrappers a) don't have the hit points of tankers or a fair number of other scrappers... b) lack any form of self heal and c) lack resistance SR's resistance to def debuffs needs to be a lot higher than any other sets if it's to stand a chance out there in the big wide world and be comparable to all its fellows.
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Here's the thing: even 100+% defense debuff resistance isn't enough, by itself, to make SR the equal of Regen or Invulnerability. Obviously, something else has to give. Given that, 75% debuff resistance may be more than enough in a scrapper set. It may give you enough time to start killing before the debuffs drop you all the way into the red.
Scrappers kill things; that's their job. They avoid damage just enough to kill things. Tankers, on the other hand, need to be able to soak up hits. A few debuffs can be allowed to stack on a scrapper in the course of doing his or her job. A tank, at least who is primarily about defense, needs to have near total immunity to defense debuffs in order to keep taking hits.
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Statesman...I salute you. In PvE SRs are now one step closer to being comparable to their fellow scrappers in survivability.
In PvP however...they're still a joke.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just gotta twist the knife there, eh? How many times does the man have to say that they're still looking at things like ToHit buffs?
Why all the complicated code within code within code?
The essential problem with DEF is that its not a relative modifier like RES is.
The only way to fix def is to change how it works. A complete fix is simply to make it a relative reduction in to hit percentage.
The way to do it is to use all the normal to hit calculations and then apply the DEF as a multiplier to reduce the end to hit chance to a new number.
The beauty of it is that you can then give DEF exactly the same scale as a corresponding RES power and it will end up giving the same protection but doing it in a different way than RES.
Example: If a hero has 75% chance to hit and the target has 75% RES then over time the hero will do 18.75% of his base damage. If the target instead had 75 in DEF then the attacker would on average hit 18.75% of the time for 100% damage.
All buff and debuff will be added before the DEF multiplication so their relative impact would be exactly the same as it is against RES.
This would fix all DEF problems in the game, and you would avoid putting small patches of semi fix after semi fix on the code until no one can see the clear system we originialy had.
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Why all the complicated code within code within code?
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You just complained about code complication, and then suggested that the fundamentally change the way that the entire game works. I don't think you have a sense of the scale of your proposal. Adding a new system is always going to be easier than completely overhauling the entire combat system, which is what you suggest. Changing the effect of defense buffs also requires a rebalancing of nearly every set in the game in light of the new paradigm.
Your suggestion might work for CoH2, if and when it arrives, but for better or worse CoH works like it does, and they can't change the way that defense works any more than they can eliminate gravity from the game--the force, not the power set.
Actually, that might be easier than changing how defense works.
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2. Reduce SRs debuff counteraction (resistance). SR isn't a tank set, and based on the defensive principles applied elsewhere, it should only achieve 83% of the other sets' maximum debuff resistance (scrapper resistance cap 75%/tanker resistance cap 90%).
4. Fiddle with the numbers to achieve about 75% resistance to debuffs in SR and Stone (not considering Elude and Granite), and about 90% in Ice. I don't know that those are necessarily high enough, but it's a better starting point, IMO.
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I'm sorry, but having endured SR for a fairly hefty time I have to disagree with you there MisterNick.
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Level 45 SR scrapper here, thanks. I don't need this debuff resistance to get by, but it will help to get me closer to "on par" with the other sets. By that token, any resistance to defense debuffs is going to help a lot. I don't need total immunity to them; that's silly, every set should have a weakness.
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Level 50 SR scrapper here, thanks. SR does have a weakness. No self heal. No real resistances to damage. Yes it's high and no, you don't have total immunity, you have the token 5% weakness in there. But if you're hit you're hit hard and can't really recover as quickly as any other defensive set in the game.
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75%, as I just said above, may not be high enough, but it's better to start low and test it higher than start high and have to reduce it. Actually, I suppose that they've already started high, but it's better to reduce it early and bring it back up than to be forced to reduce it later.
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You mean like SR's defensive values? Which started obscenely low...got boosted over 4 issues....then when I5 hit reverted again?
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SR's debuff resistance is that damn high because it has NOTHING else. No self heal, no damage debuff aura, no resistance...nothing but pure defense.
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Well, that's not actually true. It has little else, granted, but it does have a speed buff, recharge buff and slow debuff resistance, all in Quickness. It has extra endurance recovery in Elude. It resists confusion and perception debuffs. It has, bar none, the best self status protection in the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
Speed buff doesn't help against incoming damage. Recharge buff is significantly lower then hasten, which has always been odd as Primary > Secondary > Pool does not seem to be applied there. And the slow debuff resistance in Quickness is a joke. Practically non existant and non enhanceable
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SR is not a tanker set but considering that SR scrappers a) don't have the hit points of tankers or a fair number of other scrappers... b) lack any form of self heal and c) lack resistance SR's resistance to def debuffs needs to be a lot higher than any other sets if it's to stand a chance out there in the big wide world and be comparable to all its fellows.
[/ QUOTE ]
Here's the thing: even 100+% defense debuff resistance isn't enough, by itself, to make SR the equal of Regen or Invulnerability. Obviously, something else has to give. Given that, 75% debuff resistance may be more than enough in a scrapper set. It may give you enough time to start killing before the debuffs drop you all the way into the red.
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Well no, it isn't enough but it's a start. It's, in a sense the Devs say 'yes, you need help. We'll start small'. That's the important thing for most of the SRs on these boards...we've finally seen some progress. Not great but better then being told 'we're being looked at' with no hints about anything.
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Scrappers kill things; that's their job. They avoid damage just enough to kill things. Tankers, on the other hand, need to be able to soak up hits. A few debuffs can be allowed to stack on a scrapper in the course of doing his or her job. A tank, at least who is primarily about defense, needs to have near total immunity to defense debuffs in order to keep taking hits.
[/ QUOTE ]
Scrappers also act as the poor man's tank and as the secondary tank in any team. We have confront for a reason. Not only do we kill things, we make sure those 'things' are occupied with us so they're not jumping on Mr. AoE blaster over there or Mr. Debuff-o-matic defender. We need to actually survive hits to make sure this happens. And yes, scrappers kill things...
But I don't think that's specifically our job. Judging from the AoEs, defiance etc. I'd say blasters 'killed things'. Reading the Critical Hit icon info I'd say our job is to act as a boss killer/tanker. So we need to be able to survive the things that hit hardest...not to the degree of a tanker...that's why tankers have more hit points, higher values and a 5-man autohit taunt and scrappers has a 1 man confront.
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Statesman...I salute you. In PvE SRs are now one step closer to being comparable to their fellow scrappers in survivability.
In PvP however...they're still a joke.
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Just gotta twist the knife there, eh? How many times does the man have to say that they're still looking at things like ToHit buffs?
[/ QUOTE ]
How many times?
Well, I seem to recall Soon. If anything it's more to make sure certain things aren't forgotten. PvP is going to become a lot more important in the coming months with CoV round the corner....and if everyone has the same base accuracy as an I4 AV which not only negates an entire secondary's worth of powers and slots but does so twice...in addition to Build Up, Aim and any APPs that they get...well....it looks rather grim.
Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!
[ QUOTE ]
Scrapper
Super Reflexes
Focused Fighting: 4/21.6
Focused Senses: 4/21.6
Agile: 2/10.8
Dodge: 2/10.8
Lucky: 2/10.8
Evasion: 4/21.6
Elude: 10/54
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Does this mean a level 50 SR Scrapper with all three passives and all three toggles running would reduce all incoming defense debuffs by (3*10.8)+(3*21.6) = 97.2%?
So, an incoming 50% defense debuff would become 50*(1-.972) = 1.4%?
Or do the resistances only apply to debuffs for their damage types? In that case, would Focused Fighting stack with Dodge for 10.8+21.6 = 32.4% reduction against melee defense debuffs?
Good work States.
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Level 45 SR scrapper here, thanks.
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Level 50 SR scrapper here, thanks.
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The point being that I have played SR as well, to very high levels. We both know what we're talking about, so appealing to your experience isn't getting you anywhere.
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SR does have a weakness. No self heal. No real resistances to damage. Yes it's high and no, you don't have total immunity, you have the token 5% weakness in there. But if you're hit you're hit hard and can't really recover as quickly as any other defensive set in the game.
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SR has many weaknesses, and a few strengths, but SR's defense itself does need to have a weakness, else it's actually better than equivalent damage resistance or regen. SR doesn't need 97.6% resistance to the things that can overcome it. Even if it does, it's a poor point to start testing from.
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You mean like SR's defensive values? Which started obscenely low...got boosted over 4 issues....then when I5 hit reverted again?
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Yeah, SR's defenses got reduced in I5. Just like everyone. Get over it.
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It has little else, granted, but it does have a speed buff, recharge buff and slow debuff resistance, all in Quickness. It has extra endurance recovery in Elude. It resists confusion and perception debuffs. It has, bar none, the best self status protection in the game.
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Speed buff doesn't help against incoming damage. Recharge buff is significantly lower then hasten, which has always been odd as Primary > Secondary > Pool does not seem to be applied there. And the slow debuff resistance in Quickness is a joke. Practically non existant and non enhanceable
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So, in other words, it has other things. Whether or not those things are enough, and whether or not you have an answer to our having the best status protection, it's not reasonable to say that it has nothing else, which is exactly what you said. You can pooh-pooh our Slow debuff resistance all that you want, but it's there, as are all of the other effects that you seem to want to trivialize.
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SR is not a tanker set but considering that SR scrappers a) don't have the hit points of tankers or a fair number of other scrappers... b) lack any form of self heal and c) lack resistance SR's resistance to def debuffs needs to be a lot higher than any other sets if it's to stand a chance out there in the big wide world and be comparable to all its fellows.
[/ QUOTE ]
Here's the thing: even 100+% defense debuff resistance isn't enough, by itself, to make SR the equal of Regen or Invulnerability. Obviously, something else has to give. Given that, 75% debuff resistance may be more than enough in a scrapper set. It may give you enough time to start killing before the debuffs drop you all the way into the red.
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Well no, it isn't enough but it's a start. It's, in a sense the Devs say 'yes, you need help. We'll start small'. That's the important thing for most of the SRs on these boards...we've finally seen some progress. Not great but better then being told 'we're being looked at' with no hints about anything.
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97.6% debuff resistance is a start. 75% debuff resistance is also a start, and it allows Ice tankers to outdo us here. This early on, total immunity is not the best place to be testing from.
These things are not final. Suggesting we don't need all that much debuff resistance is not the same thing as saying we're fine. We don't need to jealously guard anything we might be given, especially if that thing by itself is not enough.
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Scrappers kill things; that's their job.
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Scrappers also act as the poor man's tank and as the secondary tank in any team.
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Secondary. As in, not as good as the primary tank, which would be an actual tank. Our defense values are already higher than an Ice tank's, which is fine because they have Hoarfrost and some minor--not negligible, but minor--resistances. Our debuff resistance does not also need to be higher than theirs.
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we need to be able to survive the things that hit hardest...not to the degree of a tanker...that's why tankers have more hit points, higher values and a 5-man autohit taunt and scrappers has a 1 man confront.
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They have higher values in all of their resistance effects, yes. This is a resistance effect, even if the name gets changed. Ergo, they should have higher values in it.
<snip more irrelevance about PvP and ToHit buffs>
Statesman, this is excellent. I was amazed when I found out that resistance debuffs are resisted by the resistance they're debuffing. Your proposal goes a long way toward equalizing defense and resistance in the game. Thank you.
...
New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
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I have 6 Debuff defence/end HO's in my Rad infection. I Fight SR and Ice on a regular basis in the arena. With Rad infection, Multiple Damage/Acc HO's ane Even Buffs from other team members I Still have a Horrible time trying to Hit an Ice tank/SR. I can't drop their toggles with Brawl because it NEVER connects.
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I'm sorry, but my troll-o-meter is pegged right now. I'd run the numbers, but I don't want to feed the troll.
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Your suggestion might work for CoH2, if and when it arrives, but for better or worse CoH works like it does, and they can't change the way that defense works any more than they can eliminate gravity from the game--the force, not the power set.
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When the way DEF works is fundamentaly broken then no modification will fix it. You will just end up with adding and adding and adding modifiers that will never ever make it work.
As to changing all powers to follow a new paradigm. Well actually all DEF powers can just be given the value of corresponding RES powers and nothing else need to be changed since the modifier is now a relative value instead of an absolute value.
If you have a DEF debuff that reduce DEF by 15 and your target has a DEF of 75 (would be the scrapper cap) then instead of multiplying to hit chance by 0.25 then it will multiply it by 0.4 since the DEF will be reduced to 60.
The advantage is that you avoid both the case where DEF is a source of endless frustration and it avoids it becoming irrelevant againt strong enemies. It will always have the same relative effect as a corresponding RES value.
Bad bad bad idea. First off it only addresses one half of the issue. Secondly, it is disproportionately unfair to def debuff controllers in PVP. Not defenders as 1 person kept repeating over and over that defender debuffs are uresistable who happen to also get Aim which is not addressed by this.
I honestly don't know of a good solution. +DEF needs a good solution. But invalidating one set -def debuff, to address a problem plagued +def set, and STILL not address basic ToHit problems just doesn't seem like the answer.
So.....
You have a few heroes whose big thing is "I cannot be hit". That's fine, that's cool. These heroes also happen to be really tough even without their defenses -- more hitpoints and damage than most, anyway.
In PvP, these guys are untouchable. Pop 3 yellows, it doesn't matter. Still can't hit them. Okay, quite a challenge.
But then there are a few other heroes who can reduce their defenses. These are generally the weaker heroes to begin with, but they can help to even the odds a bit.
So now, those whose best contribution is to minimize the untouchableness of those who are already tougher and deadlier, are now incapable of doing that?
Nice!
The U.S.S. Big Picture has just set sail for distant shores.
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<snip more irrelevance about PvP and ToHit buffs>
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So, what are you going to be doing when CoV comes out, PvP zones come into existence, SGs get bases and items of power and raids come into CoH?
Hmm?
PvP is coming. Sticking your head in a hole and ignoring it isn't going to stop that.
And if it's an issue in PvP they may actually need to look at it, simply because of the fact it's a key selling point in CoV. A lot of people don't like PvP in CoH...due to the fact it makes no sense.
In CoV it makes sense. And there are perks associated with it.
Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!
[ QUOTE ]
.
In PvP, these guys are untouchable. Pop 3 yellows, it doesn't matter. Still can't hit them. Okay, quite a challenge.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wait....3 of the smallest yellows = 75% boost to accuracy.
Base player accuracy in PvP = 75%.
Total defense offed by max slotted SR without Elude = 38.5% range/melee, 65.5% AoE
Bear in mind when Elude crashes it drops all toggles.
Also bear in mind that you can slot things with Accuracy SOs.
Don't give me that crap mate.
Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!
[ QUOTE ]
You have a few heroes whose big thing is "I cannot be hit". That's fine, that's cool. These heroes also happen to be really tough even without their defenses -- more hitpoints and damage than most, anyway.
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They're not, actually, really tough without their defenses. That's why they have them. If they were, tankers and scrappers would run around with their toggles off all the time.
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In PvP, these guys are untouchable. Pop 3 yellows, it doesn't matter. Still can't hit them. Okay, quite a challenge.
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Accuracy inspirations don't apply directly against defenses. If you have no accuracy, boosting your no accuracy by 25% of zero isn't ever going to help you. Inspiration use is not the issue here.
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But then there are a few other heroes who can reduce their defenses. These are generally the weaker heroes to begin with, but they can help to even the odds a bit.
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No, you have virtually every hero capable of reducing their defenses, not to mention villains. Every Broadsword or Katana scrapper, every Assault Rifle blaster, every Radiation/* or */Radiation defender, etc.
However, do note that Defender debuffs are non-resistable in the arena, which seems to be all that you care about.
None of this touches on ToHit buffs, though, which entirely trivialize defense. If you're somehow having trouble hitting defense builds in the arena, try Tactics.
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So now, those whose best contribution is to minimize the untouchableness of those who are already tougher and deadlier, are now incapable of doing that?
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Nope, but they're apparently incapable of reading.
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The U.S.S. Big Picture has just set sail for distant shores.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's moving along just fine, it's just that folks keep trying to drive the dinghy of Tunnel Vision in front of it, and complaining when it doesn't stop.
Oh, good ... does this mean that Invincible (Invulnerable) will add 100% resistance? I mean, since the set already has so many +Def powers.
Just wanted to start with: I actually enjoyed your post. It made me chuckle how you threw my jokes back at me. Awesome!
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But then there are a few other heroes who can reduce their defenses. These are generally the weaker heroes to begin with, but they can help to even the odds a bit.
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No, you have virtually every hero capable of reducing their defenses, not to mention villains. Every Broadsword or Katana scrapper, every Assault Rifle blaster, every Radiation/* or */Radiation defender, etc.
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Hyperbole much? In terms of powersets: 2 out of 6 scrappers, 1 out of 6 defenders, 1 out of 6 controllers, and 1 out of 5 blasters. We missing anything?
I guess I missed out on the "virtually every" chapter in "making a point" school.
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So now, those whose best contribution is to minimize the untouchableness of those who are already tougher and deadlier, are now incapable of doing that?
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Nope, but they're apparently incapable of reading.
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The U.S.S. Big Picture has just set sail for distant shores.
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It's moving along just fine, it's just that folks keep trying to drive the dinghy of Tunnel Vision in front of it, and complaining when it doesn't stop.
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(Love that!)
Well, I suppose I should mention that most scrappers and tankers have a single power that negates most or all Controller abilities... Without slotting!
Only Dark Armor appears to lack in the status resist powers (unless they were upgraded in I5), and Fiery Aura doesn't have a single power, but incorporates status resists into its normal defenses.
So 3/4 scrappers and all tankers negate Controllers pretty well. Am I saying they should lose this ability? Not really. I'm just saying that every rock has its paper. Debuffs are the paper to the defensive rocks out there.
If the debuffs are really a problem for the game, just get rid of them! It's just confusing and pointless to have debuffs that don't actually debuff in an intuitive fasion. It was kind of like when they re-tooled Wet Ice to have a 1% defense or something silly, and briefly allowed enhancing it. I pointed out that with numbers that small they shouldn't bother mentioning it because players who don't do the math will think they're getting something that they're really not.
What I'd rather see, what it really should have been, is a multiplicative debuff rather than additive. In other words, if your defense is 50% and my debuff is 50%, the net should be 25% defense for you -- I debuff half of whatever you've got. That becomes fairly intuitive, and means the devs don't have to worry about caps as much. If your defense can never reach 100% and my debuff can never reach 100%, it will all work out.
For every offense, there should be a defense. And for every defense, there should be a counter.
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I guess I just can't understand why all of these people are complaining about the historically weakest damage mitigation sets getting something that might help them in certain situations. Sorry we don't want to be gimp. Our bad.
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Well, you know how it goes - it's all about Me Me Me. Most of these folks are happy to champion improvements to weaker sets unless this somehow causes any minor inconvenience to them - then it's suddenly a 'nerf' when it's in fact a buff to some sets that truly need it.
The stark selfishness displayed here ... astounds me, when people who know beyond any shadow of a doubt that super reflexes and ice armor and even the yet-again-ignored force field seriously need work, but would rather see the players of these sets suffer in the PvE game just to bolster their own showing in PvP.