[ QUOTE ]
Is Hover the ONLY 'combat movement' power that gives you a +DEF?
[/ QUOTE ]
Combat Jumping also has a +DEF bonus.
Been looking for one of these for awhile. Very nice job 
-- Currently Playing --
Dexter Labrynth (SS/FA Brute)
Former member of Tribute and Victory Reborn
Great guide TopDoc. Been meaning to add this to my favorites for a while, so here goes. Thanks.
Dr. Rob
Wow, nice numbers, great post.
Great guide, TopDoc!
I was wondering if the inconsistent speeds you saw with jumping are due to a steady loss in forward momentum after the jump's apex. For instance if you jump from a high place to a low place you will be travelling almost straight downward at the end despite holding down w the entire time. I have always wondered if this was purely due to downward acceleration or a combination of that and forward deceleration.
Did you try testing with only low jumps, where you always briefly release the space bar shortly after the jump begins so that the apex is never very far from the ground?
I used this simple but VERY handy macro:
/macro Jump "+up$$+autorun"
This is the Run equivalent for Super Jumpers, and I highly recommend it. It's the equivalent of hitting the r key (autorun) and holding the space bar (to jump), but it's hands free.
I did my testing in long stretches of open water, so there were no ground height changes. I used the macro, so I always went as high as possible.
I believe the more time you spend on the ground, the slower you go. For the fraction of a second that you're on the ground, you probably slow down to normal running speed. But I don't recall specifically testing for this. Maybe when I'm done with some of my other projects I'll update this Guide and do a little more testing.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
[ QUOTE ]
I believe the more time you spend on the ground, the slower you go. For the fraction of a second that you're on the ground, you probably slow down to normal running speed. But I don't recall specifically testing for this.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that's right. You feel a lot faster when you're near the ground, but you're actually faster taking full jumps. The game keeps track of how fast you're allowed to move in different methods. If you have SJ on (with NO SS), you will slow down horrendously while grounded. Being in the air maintains a certain speed which, ZeroG, is independent of your vertical speed. Where you are in your jump does not matter--the game just says "SJ is on, player has X amount of air control."
A very good test for this is to walk off a ledge with SJ turned on. You'll be barely moving when you hit the edge and going 80 (literally) by the time you hit the floor, even after only a two-story drop. It's a very noticeable effect (especially when trying to drop onto an enemy from above--I die from overshooting doing that way too often 
).
Which would be faster for Hover, to put 2 Run Speed SOs in Siphon Speed or put 2 Fly Speed SO's in Hover and a RchRdx in Siphon Speed (to help keep it up)? Or should I just 6 slot Hover and count Siphon Speed as a bonus when available?
Siphon Speed only effects the base hover speed? I notice that the speed gain from SS is considerably less when hovering than when sprinting. Do you have any numbers on that?
As a foot note...
My main movement power is TP, so I'm not trying to use hover to get from RCS to AP or anything goofy. I just want good manuverability in combat and I like controlled 3d movement. You're right that TP indoors is a chore. It can usually be done, but oy! what a pain!.
Want to see more tilesets?
I've never tested Siphon Speed with flying. According to the CoH Planner, it only accepts run speed enhancements. But the description just says is increases Speed, and not specifically Running Speed. All run speed bonuses increase jumping speed, but the same is not the case for Flying. Siphon Speed may not affect flying at all. That's the first thing to test. If it does affect flying, perhaps the Run Speed Enhancements improve the Fly Speed bonus, or perhaps they only affect Run Speed. That's the second thing to test.
If Siphon Speed gives the same bonus to Flying that it does to Running, then you can use Hover as a travel power! Somehow, I doubt it though.
I'd have to do some testing to figure out how this works. Fortunately, I have a level 33 Kin with a couple respecs available. Unfortunately, testing something like this is pretty low priority.
At level 14+, I prefer travel powers that don't need a target. Eventually I slot my main travel power to cap it, but I don't really worry about how fast I go till fairly late in level. Siphon Speed becomes more a Recharge Reduction buff and debuff. I'd say slot Hover as much as you'd like (some people like to 6 slot it). Slot Siphon Speed for Recharge Reduction, and consider it a bonus.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
[ QUOTE ]
As a foot note...
My main movement power is TP, so I'm not trying to use hover to get from RCS to AP or anything goofy. I just want good manuverability in combat and I like controlled 3d movement. You're right that TP indoors is a chore. It can usually be done, but oy! what a pain!.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've done a Scrapper with permaHover and Teleport as a travel power. It's expensive to slot (if you want to put lots of slots in Teleport especially!), but it DOES work quite well. Hover with 6 SO's will let you move around at pretty good speed whenever and wherever you want. It's slow enough to use at all times, fast enough to get where you want in missions quite easily, and so much fun that I consider those 6 slots very well spent. Zoom zoom zoom. 
That's the Hover part, anyway. Teleport has beautiful synergy with permahover. You don't have to worry about turning hover on and off like some people who augment Teleportation with hovering since you're always hovering anyway, and you don't really have to worry about targetting your teleport well since you can adjust rapidly once you arrive. The (already limited) thought and planning necessary to begin a teleportation chain is just plain gone. Bind Teleport to something handy and you don't even have to think about using it, it's just "I want to be over there now."
Of course, YMMV as always.
Now, as for Siphon Speed, I've never tested that with flight. I do know, however, that Speed Boost works well on a flyer (crack is a permaHover build's friend before SO's--6 DO's makes Hover tolerably fast, like a slow walk, but with Speed Boost, it's almost as good as the SO version). This would suggest it as feasible that Siphon works too. I've never tried though.
Hmmm, looking at the above, I see I've been babbling like a fanboy. Sorry, but I guess I am. (I wish we could have 5 power pools. I 'specced out Hover for Assault and Tactics. I scrap a lot better, but... 
)
I actually have a lowbie Kinetic which actually relies on Siphon and Hover. Siphon Speed does certainly effect my hover speed. Now, I don't have the scripting poweress that TopDoc does, so this is just going off me point hover a direction and counting. That's also why I'm using a generic unit. It's CLOSE to feet per second, but I'm willing to wager that there's a lot of discrepency in my timing method.
Hover, base speed : 5.17 u
Hover, Siphon : 18.75 u
Big change compared to not using it. Enhancements were a different matter. Again, there's a lot of room for error here, but I think each DO was only giving me around 1 foot per second, if that. I'll try with demo files later tonight, but this was not worth slotting.
My suggestion? Get Siphon Speed, throw a +ACC in it (damn toHit roles), and throw one or two Flight Speeds into Hover. Base Siphon Speed already overlaps pretty neatly, even without Hasten, and I swear I got more of a bonus from Flight Speed TOs than Run Speed SOs.
Interestingly enough, I don't think Siphon Speed actually gives a bonus to Fly, although it might just be too small to notice.
I am curious, what is permahover? Since Hover is a toggle, it cannot be made "perma" like click powers such as Hasten and Elude. Hover is "perma" as long as you never turn it off or get de-toggled by a villain.
Taxibot Grim (Virtue)
Paragon Taxi Service
Just FYI Siphon Speed definately DOES speed up Hover, never tested it with Fly.
Want to see more tilesets?
[ QUOTE ]
Hover is "perma" as long as you never turn it off or get de-toggled by a villain.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's what I meant. Without Flight Speed enhancers (at least a few), you wouldn't be doing that unless you're a serious masochist and don't like teaming.
Permahover = Never Turns Hover Off
Maybe a stupid question, but...
If you use a so in hurdle, would that reduce the number of so's you need in sj from 3 to 2?
Super Reflexes - The New Squishy
Not a stupid question at all. I'm fairly certain that you would not need 3 SOs in SJ if you have Hurdle with an SO. In fact you may only need 1 SO in SJ to cap it with Hurdle. However, the jumping speed formula is still beyond me, so I'd have to actually test that combination. Unfortunately, I'm probably not going to get to this for a while. Fortunately, you can test this yourself. Find a nice big stretch of open water and time how long it takes to go a set distance with 0, 1, 2, or 3 SOs in SJ, while keeping 1 SO in Hurdle. And if you do test it, please post your results here.
Note that this only applies to ground speed. You will probably not cap your jump height without several SOs in SJ. Unfortunately, I never bothered to test jump height.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
Okay, before I respec, I will dump all of the DO's I have in SJ and drop a single SO into both it and Hurdle. After running it for a while to test the height, distances, and speeds of the jumps, I will drop a second SO in to see if it makes a difference. I will try to get enough inf tonight to copy the character over to test and try it.
Super Reflexes - The New Squishy
You're probably aware, but I can't tell by that last post.... you do know that you go across to Test broke, right?
Fill your inventory with Accuracy SO's if you want any money on test!
Actually, it will be jump so's, but yeah, I know.
Super Reflexes - The New Squishy
It may be incorrect info but I remember reading that SJ +Hurdle with 1 SO in each is so close to the cap that another slot is just not worth it i.e. you just get a couple feet more on your jump distance.
I've had bunch of toons with SJ. Hurdle is definetly an easier decision than stealing extra slots from somewhere. It's quite speedy too.
From visual observation, I would say you are right. I recorded the test, but am going to be out of town for a week or so. I uploaded the demo file and will link it below for anybody who wishes to do the math. If you do go through it, please post the results here.
I did 3 jumps with hurdle and sj with 1 so, then did 3 more with sj with 2 so's and hurdle with 1.
http://lcoee.wuyausu.com/oni1.cohdemo
Super Reflexes - The New Squishy
That link doesn't work for me.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
Hmm... I double checked the file, and it exists at that location, but it will not let anybody access it outside of ftp. I have never had that happen before, sorry. I converted it to txt files for those still interested.
http://lcoee.wuyausu.com/onitest.txt
And yes, I already double checked by pulling it up in ie6 to make sure...
Super Reflexes - The New Squishy
So..... With Enhancement Dictatorship on the horizon, how will traveling be affected? Will Teleport (formerly benefitting from six-slotting) remain the fastest, or will Super Speed take the lead?
OK, question:
Is Hover the ONLY 'combat movement' power that gives you a +DEF? It would seem to me that the other combat movement powers (SipS, IR, etc) would make you harder to hit because you can dodge out of the way, either by zipping sideways or jumping upward and bouncing off a handily-placed cargo container.
But since every weapon in the game is 'guided' (meaning you see the effect show in your buff-debuff area below your menu, then the effect follows you and hits even if you're dodging to the side, then the Big Red Numbers)... it's hard to tell if I'm getting nailed by bullets, ice blasts, or thrown chunks of pavement more or less often when I'm in SipS overdrive than when I'm not.
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."