OK, I just copied to test and re-specced my level 50 controller to have superspeed. The only time I've had superspeed is with my Kinetic defender. He's in the low 20's and has the kinetic jump power to back up the superspeed. With this rather weak background in superspeed it took me about 50 minutes to get from Zulu base all the way to the rim of the Storm Palace. The climb up the Cascade's red falls gave me a lot of trouble (just as they did when I first tried them with Superjump) but I think, with some actual practice, I could shave a good 20 minutes off that overall time.
The biggest problem for me wasn't being ground-bound. The biggest problem was that long, BRIGHT streek behind me! That thing is seriously blinding when you're jumping but all my squishy controller has for stealth is steamy mist so she needed it on. Arg.
Superspeed is definitely touchier than superjump. If you hit the geyser with the 'w' key down and superspeed on then you'll go a good bit further forward than intended. Also, you can't steer as well with superspeed. For instance, there's a geyser in the Storm Palace that shoots you straight up. With superjump I can easily use that and steer to get to the next island. With SS, I'm not even sure I could steer enough to fall between the islands! (There's another geyser you can use, which is actually faster but not as fun.)
Oh, there's some kind of odd bug around the rim of the storm palace itself. I got stuck a bunch of times when I tried to hug the inner wall. Even in the middle I got stuck a bit.
Couple of things I've noticed:
1) as far as I can tell, Combat Jumping (maybe all jumping?) is not affected by the speed reduction from Stealth - my Kinetics Defender is noticably faster (watching the map zoomed in) using CJ while looking for someone to Siphon Speed on, as opposed to Sprinting around.
2) You might want to mention the uses of Swift for those like Rooted Stone Tankers (and those Invuln Tanks and Scrappers) who have powers that completely reduce movement speed. With a few slots in Swift my Stone Tank is happily moving around in combat, without it he's an amusing slow show-piece. 
Excellent intel, TopDoc. Great work!
- Caligari
Great guide! I confirms some of the rumors that have been going around and discredits some. TP > Fly. 
I was wondering about the Super Jump cap when combined when Hurdle, as well. Did you ever get around to testing it, TopDoc?
I just picked up Hurdle on my Super Jumping tanker, and I'm afraid I didn't notice a dramatic difference. I'm sure there was one, but silly me, I had planned to test my jump height with SJ before and after I took Hurdle, but I just forgot and took the power without testing. Grr!
So I'm anxious to see if one can get away with 2-slotting SJ and still cap its speed.
KABOOM!
Nope, I haven't tested Hurdle and SJ to see how many SJ slots are needed. And suddenly there's some other stuff that's a higher priority to test. Sorry :-( I'll try to get around to it soon.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
Great Guide. Gotta reply to it so I never loose it
As part of my new project, Tank Mages, I'm levelling up a Kinetics Defender. I just got Siphon Speed and it's pretty amazing. Slower than Super Speed, but not my much. At level 6, it's a 46.46 f/s bonus. At level 7, it's 46.82. Given those two very close data points, it looks like the following...
Siphon Speed +44.3 + LVL * 0.36 f/s
I'd guess it's exactly 85% of Super Speed. That means 3 SOs should cap your running speed at higher levels. I can see now why people say that Kinetics don't need a travel power. Between this and Inertial Reduction (untested so far, but it lets you jump pretty high), they've got 2 Travel powers in their Primary power set.
Testing indicates it does not suffer from Suppression. :-)
Note that it is an attack. You have to hit an opponent. If you do, you get the movement bonus and a Recharge Reduction bonus, while the mob you hits gets a Slow (movement) and a Recharge Reduction debuff. It lasts a minute, but takes about that long to recharge. All in all, a nice power to have, but a small chance it won't work.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
You have outdone yourself here TopDoc. I have placed this thread in my favorites and would 10 star you if I could. Thanks for the info.
Now for my question.
If you were to invest 5 slots in either swift or sprint, what would you do and why?
The Legion of Freedom
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If you were to invest 5 slots in either swift or sprint, what would you do and why?
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First a few numbers. Base running speed is 21 feet/second (f/s). Add Sprint and Swift with an SO in their base slot, and you're going 44.8 f/s at level 50. Add 5 more slots to Swift and you're going 56.9 f/s, while putting the slots in Sprint instead gets you 62.1 f/s. Note that these numbers assume you slot all Run Speed Enhancements.
To answer your question, I can't think of any reason I would ever invest 5 slots in Swift or Sprint.
If you want a travel power, take Hurdle. If you seriously plan to use these as your travel power, put them in Sprint. You aren't worried about END while travelling, and they're a little more effective there.
Since you're asking, I assume you want it for combat speed. You didn't mention the AT or powersets, and that's pretty important. Teaming or solo? What other power pools do you have?
Swift is a smaller bonus than Sprint, but that's because Sprint costs END. Swift starts out as about 50% of Sprint, but ends up at 70% at level 50. If you're not worried at all about END, then you get more bang for your buck putting your slots in Sprint. If you are worried about END, then Swift might be better.
But as I said, I wouldn't slot either. For 5 slots, you get an increase of almost 39% to your total running speed. That's a pretty insignificant return for 5 slots.
Let me end by asking you some questions. What type of character is this for? What powers? And why is combat ground speed so important that you'd consider 6 slotting Sprint or Swift?
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
I have been looking for a guide like this for a long time. Thanks TopDoc!
I have a concept char who will not take a "super" travel power. Instead I intend to take swift(1 slot), sprint(3 slot), hurdle(3 slot), quickness(1 slot) and combat jumping(1 slot). I am curently at lvl 34 with my Kat/SR, do you think this is a viable travel power given the natural concept? What kind of enhancements do you suggest for hurdle? I read that it can be slotted for both jumping speed and jumping height.
Thanks in advance. 5 - Stars
Quick note about the teleporting bit: you'll see a lot of Stone/* Tankers taking teleport to offset the movement penalties of Granite Armor and/or Rooted.
If no speedbooster is around and you can't afford to turn off Rooted it is the only way to get around while wearing Granite.
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I have a concept char who will not take a "super" travel power. Instead I intend to take swift(1 slot), sprint(3 slot), hurdle(3 slot), quickness(1 slot) and combat jumping(1 slot). I am curently at lvl 34 with my Kat/SR, do you think this is a viable travel power given the natural concept? What kind of enhancements do you suggest for hurdle? I read that it can be slotted for both jumping speed and jumping height.
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Jumping with Hurdle is definitely a viable travel power. Hurdle is the biggest bonus by far out of all of those powers, so you would be best off putting all of your slots in it. As I mentioned in the guide, I had inconsistent results testing jumping. I'd say 5 slot it. There is only a single type of Jumping Enhancement.
Combat Jumping gives you mid-jump control and vertical height, though I found it wasn't particularly needed when using Hurdle only as a travel power. Combat jumping is necessary if you want to go jumping around in combat. Sprint and Swift give you a bit more speed. You'll be somewhat vertically challenged, though not nearly as badly as someone with only Super Speed. Combat Jumping and well slotted Hurdle do give you a fairly high jump, but it's no Super Jump.
Sprint is an END hog compared to the other powers. Only use it when actually travelling. In missions, you'll be moving pretty fast. And you won't get Suppressed by combat.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
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If you were to invest 5 slots in either swift or sprint, what would you do and why?
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First a few numbers. Base running speed is 21 feet/second (f/s). Add Sprint and Swift with an SO in their base slot, and you're going 44.8 f/s at level 50. Add 5 more slots to Swift and you're going 56.9 f/s, while putting the slots in Sprint instead gets you 62.1 f/s. Note that these numbers assume you slot all Run Speed Enhancements.
To answer your question, I can't think of any reason I would ever invest 5 slots in Swift or Sprint.
If you want a travel power, take Hurdle. If you seriously plan to use these as your travel power, put them in Sprint. You aren't worried about END while travelling, and they're a little more effective there.
Since you're asking, I assume you want it for combat speed. You didn't mention the AT or powersets, and that's pretty important. Teaming or solo? What other power pools do you have?
Swift is a smaller bonus than Sprint, but that's because Sprint costs END. Swift starts out as about 50% of Sprint, but ends up at 70% at level 50. If you're not worried at all about END, then you get more bang for your buck putting your slots in Sprint. If you are worried about END, then Swift might be better.
But as I said, I wouldn't slot either. For 5 slots, you get an increase of almost 39% to your total running speed. That's a pretty insignificant return for 5 slots.
Let me end by asking you some questions. What type of character is this for? What powers? And why is combat ground speed so important that you'd consider 6 slotting Sprint or Swift?
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My question was with pvp in mind and wanting unsuppressed speed.
The Legion of Freedom
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By the way, I forgot to mention a GREAT trick you can use with jumping powers! You can jump up to the top of buildings quickly and easily. I did it with Hurdle, but it works even better with Combat Jumping. There are small ledges at the bottom of windows, often between floors, and various other places. Run up to a building, hold down the space bar to jump and "w" to go forward, and use "a" and "d" as needed to move sideways to find ledges. It's a WHOLE lot faster and easier than taking the stairs. It makes that "Defeat 10 CoT in KR" mission go really fast, since they're usually on building tops. Unfortunately it doesn't work on smooth buildings, like many stores and offices. I hear it can be done without any jumping power, but I haven't ever managed to do it very well. Maybe if I played more alts at low levels I'd develop the skill.
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The wall hopping trick can in fact be done by a level one character, but it requires the active use of Sprint or a similar prestige power and you have to jump on the right kinds of buildings (dingey brick ones similar to those found in Kings Row work best). Its actually the only means of getting onto a large number of the rooftops in Outbreak and as a means of getting on top of the Outbreak Hospital via one of the brick buildings behind it.
I tip my hat to you. Great guide.
A bag of cookies goes to you.........yep, all the cookies are yours.
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I hear it can be done without any jumping power, but I haven't ever managed to do it very well. Maybe if I played more alts at low levels I'd develop the skill.
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I love jumping up to the roofs in outbreak and freak out the other players, as they question how did I do it. And I watch them jump off the fire escapes.
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If you were to invest 5 slots in either swift or sprint, what would you do and why?
...
My question was with pvp in mind and wanting unsuppressed speed.
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If it's just a question of combat speed between Sprint and Swift, slot Sprint. It's a bigger bonus, so the enhancements do more for you. That should get you to the 62.1 f/s that I quoted earlier. Sprint can get detoggled, but it's an instant-on toggle like other movement powers. You could use speed on demand keybinds to activate it only when needed, if you have END concerns.
As an alternative, Hover 6 slotted is 46 f/s with a fairly low END cost. It's great for ranged attackers, though slow.
For melee types, Hurdle 5 slotted is 89 f/s at no END cost, though I'd recommend Combat Jumping (very low END cost) for mid-air control. Add a keybind or two to target enemy near, queue attack, autofollow, and +jump. You can also joust with this setup, like a bouncing Yoda.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
Hover also acts as knockback/knockdown protection. That's my favorite reason to take it. I get hit, I flip, and continue my attack chain without pause.
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Hover also acts as knockback/knockdown protection. That's my favorite reason to take it. I get hit, I flip, and continue my attack chain without pause.
[/ QUOTE ]I can see it now... "Hover was never intended to provide knockdown protection."
First of all, this is a great guide. Good job!
Second, is there a way to approximate Suepr Speed using slots in stacked Swift, Quickness, and Sprint? I recently started a Super Reflexes scrapper who will probably be hungry for power slots later on and I'd like to make do without grabbing SS. Can this be done with minimal investment or is it better to just suck it up and get SS?
Yes, No, and not necessarily.
If you take all 3 and 6 slot them, they will be about the same as unslotted Super Speed at level 50. So yes, you can do it. But no, it is not a minimal investment.
You don't need to suck it up and get SS. Have I ever mentioned Hurdle? Well slotted, it comes close to base Super Speed at 50. That's also slightly faster than capped Flying! Most people who read these boards take Stamina, and Hurdle is just as good as Swift as a pre-req for Stamina. Jumping in CoH doesn't follow the laws of physics, so it may not stack well with Sprint or Swift. You may want to actually avoid them. In a build strapped for power picks, this is the way to go.
That said, Super Speed with 2 SOs is the fastest conventional movement power, and is a very small investment for what you get. Since most people also take Hasten, Super Speed is 1 power pick and 1 extra slot.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
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Melee types have little need for Hover, as Hover is just too slow for melee combat. For them, Air Superiority opens up the pool for Fly and gives them an attack with pretty decent side effects.
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I've got very good use out of hover for my melee characters. As you say elsewhere in the guide:
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[...]Hover 6 slotted for speed [...] goes about 46 f/s which is nearly base Fly speed. It gives great maneuverability in combat or missions, doesn't get suppressed, and doesn't cost much END.
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The speed is enough, and it is a joy to be able to get into melee everywhere where the terrain would otherwise be very tricky.
OK, I got Snarespawn to help me test Speed Boost and Inertial Reduction. He was level 22 I think. I don't know if those powers increase as you level. Once I5 goes live I'll have a decent level Kin of my own to test with.
Speed Boost +30.77 f/s +20.97 mph
Inertial Reduction +46.35 f/s +31.60 mph +75.53 feet high
It looks like Speed Boost is about 53% of base Super Speed at level 14, or 42% of base Super Speed at level 50. Fully slotted, a single Speed Boost would be very close to capped Super Jumping, at least in ground speed. However, Speed Boost boosts END Recovery, and it is usually slotted for that. With no Run Speed slots, it's a little faster than unslotted Fly at level 50. Not something to use as a travel power. But you can't use it on yourself anyway, Kins have Siphon Speed for that.
On the other hand, Inertial Reduction is better f/s than Super Jump when you first get it, though not quite as high. You should be able to cap jumping speed with 3 slightly green SOs at level 50, just like Super Jump. But given that I've had lots of problems measuring and predicting Jumping, I won't make any guarantees. I'll test it again when I get a decent level Kin of my own, and can play around with it on the Test server.
With Siphon Speed and Inertial Reduction, Kins can get the equivalent of capped Super Speed and Super Jumping. And the capped Super Jumping they can give to anyone for a minute at a time. Not bad!
I didn't test Suppression on either of these as Snarespawn and I were both in a hurry. But I doubt that these are Suppressed.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
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I didn't test Suppression on either of these as Snarespawn and I were both in a hurry. But I doubt that these are Suppressed.
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Just confirming that neither siphon speed, nor inertial reduction, nor speed boost are supressed.
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I didn't test Suppression on either of these as Snarespawn and I were both in a hurry. But I doubt that these are Suppressed.
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Just confirming that neither siphon speed, nor inertial reduction, nor speed boost are supressed.
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Indeed. If they were suppressed, it would 1) violate the powersets > pools balancing (especially Siphon, since it can get you killed due to no stealth) and 2) be useable for griefing purposes (excepting Siphon). That, and I know they aren't suppressed because I use them in combat all the time. 
(IR is a tad pricey before Stamina, but Siphon is cheap, debuffs the enemy nicely, and increases your attack rate with a .2 modifier--that's better than a DO.)
I'm really gonna miss those two powers, but I need to respec out of them if I'm gonna live as a Sapper. 
(I need the Siphon slot for true SS to conceal me while jumping around and I must get the leaping pool for status protection, excepting Jump Kick since I'm not farming debt yet, which makes things tighter also. Heck, I even need to drop Siphon Power to take Lightning Bolt at level 2 so I can blast better. Pity.)
Edit: Improved the grammar of the last paragraph. It still sounds off, but at least it's in English now.
Lots of really great info but.....
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Super Jump isnt enough to let you get around the Shadow Shard, but its usually enough to let you get around the zones in Paragon City without a problem.
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Superjump is incredibly fun in the Shadow Shard! Sure, it takes a few minutes (maybe half an hour) to get a feel for the jumps, but once you're over that hump it's great! Yes, you can get around just fine and you'll have FAR more fun than some flier that just points their nose at the mission and runs off to get a drink.