also...
1 feet per second
= 0.682 miles per hour
= 1.09728 kilometers per hour
= 0.3048 meters per second
Thank you for this guide, I am thinking of going the scary route of not taking a travel power, and it really helps.
I am thinking of going swift, hurdle, quickness and of course sprint. From what I gathered in this guide it is best to slot hurdle first, then sprint, for pure travel purposes. My only question is regarding this quote:
[ QUOTE ]
Jumping in CoH doesn't follow the laws of physics, so it may not stack well with Sprint or Swift. You may want to actually avoid them.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am a bit confused. Do you mean that having swift and sprint on while jumping could slow you down?
I could understand avoiding swift because of a tight build, but why wouldn't you turn on sprint?
Are you saying that while jumping for travel swift and sprint do not add to your overall speed?
As far as I could see, increasing your running speed always increased your jumping speed as well. So common sense says more running powers and slots will make you go faster. But common sense also says more Jumping slots will make you jump faster, and that isn't always the case.
I got strange results when testing Hurdle with 5 or 6 slots of Jumping SOs (pre-ED). It was actually faster with 5 slots than 6. I tested and re-tested, and got the same consistent results. Also, the ground speed didn't increase quite linearly for other numbers of SOs, and mixing Hurdle and Super Jump just made things more confusing. I tried other combinations and eventually gave up trying to figure it out. The height appears to be rounded, but not to an even integer. For all I know, there are different hard-coded curves (which should be inverted parabolas but don't appear to be) depending on the height.
The best thing to do is test it. It's probably a good idea to 3 slot Hurdle, just because it's the fastest movement power of the ones you're taking. If the problems I saw only occur at the higher jump heights, then you're probably safe to take and slot Swift, Quickness, and Sprint with as many slots as you want to spare. It's likely that every power and slot will increase your ground speed. But every once in a while, time how long it takes you to jump say 500 yards. If one day you find yourself going slower, unslot some of your running powers and see if it makes a difference.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
Thanks for such a quick reply. You da man.
I was curious about flight speeds at 22 and also the effects of ED, so just for the heck of it I extrapolated some flight speeds taking ED into account. I also updated the level 50 speeds you listed in your guide.
-----
Fly Speed
Note: you can no longer reach the flight speed cap through slotting alone.
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Fly Speed Formula:
.
Feet Per Second
(21.00 FPS base) + ((1 + sum of enhancements) * (18.18 FPS + (LVL * 0.21)))
.
Miles Per Hour
(14.32 MPH base) + ((1 + sum of enhancements) * (12.4 MPH + (LVL * 0.143)))
.
.
Fly at 14
FPS MPH
Base | 42.12 | 28.72
1 DO | 45.65 | 31.13
.
Fly at 22
FPS MPH
Base | 43.80 | 29.87
1 SO | 51.39 | 35.04
2 SO | 58.98 | 40.22
3 SO | 65.46 | 44.63
4 SO | 66.60 | 45.41
.
Fly at 50
FPS MPH
Base | 49.68 | 33.87
1 SO | 59.23 | 40.38
2 SO | 68.78 | 46.89
3 SO | 76.93 | 52.44
4 SO | 78.36 | 53.42</pre><hr />
can't wait for the new fly testing TopDoc. 
marking and bumping the thread 
I did a little testing on Flight and Swift. Hover, Fly, and Group Fly have not changed since my original tests. Other than the effects of ED, the flight speeds are still correct. Swift now adds 2.87 f/s (1.96 mph) to all forms of flight. That includes Hover, Fly, and Group Fly. With 3 even SOs, it's up to 5.58 f/s (3.80 mph). All in all, not terribly impressive.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
Cool guide
BTW, the END cost of Flight has been reduced. It used to cost 2 eps (END/second), but now it's only 1 eps. That means you can Fly without running out of END, as long as you aren't running many other toggles. But you still don't want to fight with it active.
For comparison, Super Jump and Super Speed are 0.45 eps.
As usual, they forgot to change Khelds. Peacebringers get Energy Flight at level 1, but it still costs 2 eps. On the plus side, Group Energy Flight (the PB version of Group Fly) only costs 0.52 eps.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
It is also worth mentioning that while swift's bonus is really minor to flight, if you plan on using hover on a regular basis in missions/combat, the bonus is rather nice. While it does only add a few mph, that brings you up to unslotted sprint speed. And, if you are a character with access to a power like AM, quickness, lightning reflexes, etc, then you can get up to sprint+sprint speeds while in flight.
For regular flight, however, the main advantage would just be at lower levels when you don't have access to SOs or a lot of slots to spend on the power. Once you do get access to SOs, unless capping flight is important to you, I don't see much need for it. Still, for heavy hover users, swift can be a nice bonus.
[ QUOTE ]
For comparison, Super Jump and Super Speed are 0.45 eps.
As usual, they forgot to change Khelds. Peacebringers get Energy Flight at level 1, but it still costs 2 eps. On the plus side, Group Energy Flight (the PB version of Group Fly) only costs 0.52 eps.
[/ QUOTE ]
ya found this out the hard way exemped for the Posi TF 
Castle has promised it tho...
energy fly promise
The following is a quote from _Castle_ HERE in the Training Room forum in a thread on Kheldian Energy Flight. It contains some valuable info on the internal workings of movement.
[ QUOTE ]
Swift/Quickness/Lightning Reflexes gives scale 0.1 * Melee_Runspeed Level Lookup.
Swift/Quickness/Lightning Reflexes gives scale 0.1 * Melee_Flightspeed Level Lookup. The Flightspeed table is a lower multiplier than the Runspeed table.
At any given level, Swift, Quickness and Lightning Reflexes all give the same Runspeed bonus to the character. It also gives the same Flightspeed bonus to the character, though the Flightspeed bonus is less than the Runspeed bonus.
Example:
Our example case is a level 35 Scrapper.
Quickness gives a 32% boost to base Runspeed.
Swift gives a 32% boost to base Runspeed.
Combined, they give a 64% boost to base Runspeed.
Quickness gives a 12.2% boost to base Flyspeed.
Swift gives a 12.2% boost to base Flyspeed.
Combined, they give a 24.4% boost to base Flyspeed.
A Single SO increases the 32% boost to ~43% while the same SO would only increase the 12.2% boost to ~16.2%. I'll let you folks take the math from there.
The next question is 'Why?' The tables that were used in this math were set up specifically for powers that boost Run and Fly speed before the game ever went live. Since this is exactly what these powers do, those are the tables I used. Is it 'Fair' to Flight? Considering it was something Flight did not have before, sure. I'm sorry the boost is not as strong as many folks would like it to be, but it is as strong as it is likely to get.
[/ QUOTE ]
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
i know that this is a bit late, but.....
Great guide!
How'd you get the numbers...???
See the end of my original post to see how I did all this. If you want to learn more about demo files, do a little searching in the forums.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
TopDoc, your statement that Swift only adds a flat 2.87 f/s to flight speed (5.58 f/s with 3 even SOs) seems to contradict the statement you quoted from _Castle_ where he says it has a level scale. It looks like he said Swift works exactly the same for flight speed as it does for run speed, but with a reduced multiplier.
Were those values you listed referring to a base before the multiplier, a flat-rate, or just the final total boost at whatever level you happened to do the test? I'm just curious because that seems to contradict both what _Castle_ said and what your guide says about how Swift scales.
Good point. My numbers were for level 50, and that's all I tested. It probably scales. Assuming it's the same as running, it should be:
2.03 + level * 0.017 feet/second
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
[ QUOTE ]
The following is a quote from _Castle_ HERE in the Training Room forum in a thread on Kheldian Energy Flight. It contains some valuable info on the internal workings of movement.
[ QUOTE ]
Swift/Quickness/Lightning Reflexes gives scale 0.1 * Melee_Runspeed Level Lookup.
Swift/Quickness/Lightning Reflexes gives scale 0.1 * Melee_Flightspeed Level Lookup. The Flightspeed table is a lower multiplier than the Runspeed table.
...
The next question is 'Why?' The tables that were used in this math were set up specifically for powers that boost Run and Fly speed before the game ever went live. Since this is exactly what these powers do, those are the tables I used. Is it 'Fair' to Flight? Considering it was something Flight did not have before, sure. I'm sorry the boost is not as strong as many folks would like it to be, but it is as strong as it is likely to get.
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
Since _Castle_ talked about the speed tables, and I haven't seen anyone else post them yet, here are the Level Lookup tables he's talking about: (Run = Melee_Runspeed, Fly = Melee_Flightspeed, Jump = Melee_Jumpspeed)
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>SPEED MODIFIERS
Level Run Jump Fly RunCap JumpCap FlyCap
1 2.5 2 0.875 4.5 3.5 2.625
2 2.5205 2.01 0.885 4.54 3.54 2.655
3 2.541 2.02 0.895 4.58 3.58 2.685
4 2.5615 2.03 0.905 4.62 3.62 2.715
5 2.582 2.04 0.915 4.66 3.66 2.745
6 2.6025 2.05 0.925 4.7 3.7 2.775
7 2.623 2.06 0.935 4.74 3.74 2.805
8 2.6435 2.07 0.945 4.78 3.78 2.835
9 2.664 2.08 0.955 4.82 3.82 2.865
10 2.6845 2.09 0.965 4.86 3.86 2.895
11 2.705 2.1 0.975 4.9 3.9 2.925
12 2.7255 2.11 0.985 4.94 3.94 2.955
13 2.746 2.12 0.995 4.98 3.98 2.985
14 2.7665 2.13 1.005 5.02 4.02 3.015
15 2.787 2.14 1.015 5.06 4.06 3.045
16 2.8075 2.15 1.025 5.1 4.1 3.075
17 2.828 2.16 1.035 5.14 4.14 3.105
18 2.8485 2.17 1.045 5.18 4.18 3.135
19 2.869 2.18 1.055 5.22 4.22 3.165
20 2.8895 2.19 1.065 5.26 4.26 3.195
21 2.91 2.2 1.075 5.3 4.3 3.225
22 2.9305 2.21 1.085 5.34 4.34 3.255
23 2.951 2.22 1.095 5.38 4.38 3.285
24 2.9715 2.23 1.105 5.42 4.42 3.315
25 2.992 2.24 1.115 5.46 4.46 3.345
26 3.0125 2.25 1.125 5.5 4.5 3.375
27 3.033 2.26 1.135 5.54 4.54 3.405
28 3.0535 2.27 1.145 5.58 4.58 3.435
29 3.074 2.28 1.155 5.62 4.62 3.465
30 3.0945 2.29 1.165 5.66 4.66 3.495
31 3.115 2.3 1.175 5.7 4.7 3.525
32 3.1355 2.31 1.185 5.74 4.74 3.555
33 3.156 2.32 1.195 5.78 4.78 3.585
34 3.1765 2.33 1.205 5.82 4.82 3.615
35 3.197 2.34 1.215 5.86 4.86 3.645
36 3.2175 2.35 1.225 5.9 4.9 3.675
37 3.238 2.36 1.235 5.94 4.94 3.705
38 3.2585 2.37 1.245 5.98 4.98 3.735
39 3.279 2.38 1.255 6.02 5.02 3.765
40 3.2995 2.39 1.265 6.06 5.06 3.795
41 3.32 2.4 1.275 6.1 5.1 3.825
42 3.3405 2.41 1.285 6.14 5.14 3.855
43 3.361 2.42 1.295 6.18 5.18 3.885
44 3.3815 2.43 1.305 6.22 5.22 3.915
45 3.402 2.44 1.315 6.26 5.26 3.945
46 3.4225 2.45 1.325 6.3 5.3 3.975
47 3.443 2.46 1.335 6.34 5.34 4.005
48 3.4635 2.47 1.345 6.38 5.38 4.035
49 3.484 2.48 1.355 6.42 5.42 4.065
50 3.5 2.49 1.365 6.46 5.46 4.095 </pre><hr />
Player movement speed is generally calculated as AttribBase (1.0) + Power_Scale * Speed_Mod.
Enhancements modify the Power_Scale value, which is 1.0 for the main powers Super Speed, Super Jump, and Fly.
The player movement speed cannot exceed the RunCap, JumpCap, or FlyCap values.
Various player testing indicates that 1.0 movement speed corresponds to approximately 21 feet/sec.
This one post alone almost calls for a new version of my guide. Of course I'd have to redo all the numbers. Hmm. Do I have the time. Hmm.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
common...you know you want to 
Do you have time??
Doc, this is your legacy we're talking about! Your seat at the table of immortality! Your place in the pantheon of universally-bookmarked guide writers!
Why, there's a whole generation of young whippersnappers out there who may not even have read your guide yet, who may be passing it over because it doesn't mention the effect of Swift on Fly. You're not ready to be obsolete yet, are you? That's not the Doc I remember!
Reach down inside yourself, and find the strength you know is there. The children of Paragon City are counting on you!
-- Rhygadon, clearly in some sort of mood
Here's a few more of the power scale values for speed:
RUN SPEED (add the calculated value to base 1.0 to find your running speed)
Sprint and variants: 0.5
Swift/Quickness/Lightning Reflexes: 0.1 * Melee_Runspeed
Accelerate Metabolism: 0.3
Speed Boost: 0.5 * Melee_Runspeed
Siphon Speed: 0.85 * Melee_Runspeed
Elude: 0.5 * Melee_Runspeed
Stealth: -0.35
Increase Density: 0.1 * Ranged_Slow (caster)
Rooted: -0.9
Granite Armor: -0.7
Super Speed: 1.0 * Melee_Runspeed
JUMP SPEED (add the calculated value to base 1.0 to find your jumping speed)
Hurdle: 0.5 * Melee_Jumpspeed
Combat Jumping: 0.01
Super Jump: 1.0 * Melee_Jumpspeed
Inertial Reduction: 1.0 * Melee_Jumpspeed
FLIGHT SPEED (add the calculated value to base 1.0 to find your flying speed)
Hover/Combat Flight: 1.0 (enhanceable) - 1.8 (unenhanceable)
Fly/Energy Flight: 1.0 * Melee_Flyspeed
Group Fly/Group Energy Flight: 0.5 * Melee_Flyspeed
Speed Boost: 0.5 * Melee_Flyspeed
Siphon Speed: 0.85 * Melee_Flyspeed
Accelerate Metabolism: 0.3
Swift and variants: 0.1 * Melee_Flyspeed
Increase Density: 0.1 * Ranged_Slow (caster)
Stealth: -0.35
If there are any powers I've overlooked, let me know and I'll try to find the scale values for them.
Innnnnteresting.
At first glance, here are a few things that popped out at me from these numbers (in conjunction with the Level Lookup tables you posted earlier):
The extent to which fully-slotted Fly falls short of the speed cap is highly dependent on level.
- At lvl15, if you could somehow get your hands on SOs (say by farming Doc Vazh), 3-slotted Fly would get you to a total speed of 3.03, which is 99.5% of the cap for that level.
- At lvl22, 3 SOs get you to 3.17, or 97.4% of the cap.
- At lvl50, 3 SOs get you to 3.73, or 91.1% of the cap.
- At lvl22, adding unslotted Swift to 3-slotted Fly will cap you.
- At lvl50, adding unslotted Swift gets you to about 94.4% of the cap. If you went mad and 3-slotted Swift with Fly SOs, it would get you to 97.8%.
- At lvl50, it is possible to cap Fly without buffs, if you're an SR Scrapper or Stalker or an /Elec Brute: all you have to do is 3-slot Swift and 2-slot either Quickness or Lightning Reflexes. "Just" 3 wasted slots for bragging rights ... what were you gonna do with those last 3 slots at 50, anyway?
The effect of Swift on Hover is more noticeable, if still small.
- When you first get Hover and can't slot it with anything but TOs, your total speed will be 0.2 unslotted or .25 3-slotted. Swift will add a little less than .1, so in those early levels it's a serious boost, increasing your net Hover speed by almost 50%.
- With SOs, Hover speed is 0.53 1-slotted, or 1.2 3-slotted. So Swift adds roughly 20% to 1-slotted Hover, or 8% to 3-slotted Hover. (Since the Swift bonus scales with level but base Hover speed doesn't, these percentages go up a bit over time: at 50 they're about 25% and 11%.)
- At all levels, the effect of slotting Fly enhancements in Swift is vanishingly small. In the very best case, where you have only 1 SO in Hover, putting an SO in Swift nets you a 7% increase. If you have 3-slotted Hover, an SO in Swift adds less than 3% to your speed. Not very exciting, especially compared to the approx. 10% boost to your base run speed that you'd get from a Run SO (on top of the 30% that you get from unslotted Swift).
In consequence of the above:
Slotting Swift with Fly instead of Run enhancers is almost never worthwhile.
The bonus to Fly speed is zero though the middle levels (since 3-slot Fly + unslotted Swift already caps you), and vanishingly tiny (about 1%) at the highest levels. The bonus to Hover, while better, is still much smaller (in both absolute and relative terms) than the bonus to ground movement that you get from slotting Run.
The only exception I can see would be for characters whose feet almost never touch the ground, and who thus don't mind trading 10% run speed for 3% Hover speed. And even for them, adding extra slots to Swift would be a sign of dementia.
Finally, as some kineticists have already discovered from experience,
Siphon Speed + Hover = Joy.
- With just one SO in Hover, a single SS will almost triple your speed, getting you up to just short of Sprinting speed. A second SS will have you Hovering faster than unslotted Fly, and even slightly faster than the old pre-ED 6-slotted Hover!
- With 3 SOs in Hover, one shot of SS gets you above base Fly, and two get you to almost exactly the same speed as 3-slotted Fly.
Now if only they'd let us slot Fly enhancers in SS, we could hit the Fly cap with Hover! (We can already do it for a few seconds at a time with 3 stacked SS, but that doesn't really count. I wanna dust Flyers in aerial races.) Or I suppose it could be done with Swift, at least through the mid-levels. Even 3-slotting wouldn't cap us at 50, though. Damn.
Rhygadon,
All of your numbers are off because you calculated all of your 3-slot figures as if 3 SOs add 100%. ED changed that a long time ago. Now 3 SOs add 95%. So, in order for your numbers to be accurate you need to redo everything using "x 1.95" instead of "x 2.0".
FYI for anyone who has trouble conceptualizing Feet Per Second as a gauge (since that isn't a common reference we see every day), you can get Miles Per Hour by multiplying any FPS figure by .682. Technically it is 0.68181818181818181818181818181818, but ".682" or simply ".68" might be a slightly easier choice to use.
So, for example, a couple of posts above, the 70 feet per second SR reference would become 48 MPH (70 x .682 = 47.74) when rounded to the nearest MPH.