Weijyan

So it's still allowed? Cool. I guess I will be downloading it then. Thanks.

The last time I played, which was admittedly around Issue 10, a map mod called Vidiotmaps was not only allowed, but it had won some kind of player's choice award here. I was just wondering if it was still allowed, or if it was deemed at some point as a violation of the EULA.

I wouldn't mind re-downloading it, but I don't want to get banned, either. I know a lot can change in 4 or 5 years, and I saw some of the others I used to use are now listed on their sites as being 'banned'.

I have been running into issues with the lcd lately. When I start it up, I get this splash:

[image]http://wuyausu.com/coh/cohlcd17.jpg[/image]

After a second, it changes to this:

[image]http://wuyausu.com/coh/cohlcd18.jpg[/image]

From there, it never changes. Any suggestions/ideas?

SG Name: The Hand of the Gods

SG Leaders: Oni no Onmitsu

SG Website: The Hand of the Gods

SG Recruiters: Oni no Onmitsu, DonnchadH, Hygeia, Kid Fate, Power Incarnate, Radiant Blue, Stone Wallace, Waiqu, Yanshi, FireDude, FlamingMistress, Jeweler

Teamspeak/Ventrillo Server: None

SG Peak Hours: Varied

Other Info: We are rp-lite, meaning I like to rp, but do not force you to. We are a fairly loosely organized group of heroes who just like to have fun. We have a tendancy to solo, but just say the word in the sg channel and anybody who can will meet you.

Our base is fairly small at the moment, with only the basics and a single telepad, but we are currently working towards some majour upgrades (Orbits of Control, place last 3 telepads, larger footprint, medical bay, ect).

Keke... And you asked me about why I keep trying to prove my point? Twice, now I have suggested we just agree to disagree and you keep arguing.

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After all, all we really are arguing is opinion. You have yours, I have mine. You have said nothing to change mine

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That's because I can't change an opinion you never had. You've never really believed that the Batcave is a base for a Supergroup. You just keep saying that because you made an odd comment and took a wrong turn defending it.

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No, actually that is my opinion. Despite what you obviously believe, that is my thought on the matter, which can neither be proven nor disproven in any true scientific matter. The closest thing you can do is ask the people at DC which it is, and you would likely get differing opinions there, too.

What, exactly, is your reasoning for your stance? The fact that Bruce Wayne owns the cave? In that case, then the Avenger's Mansion is not a base either. It is owned and maintained by Tony Stark. Then neither is the Titan's Tower, since it was built by Ollie Queen.

As for your quiz, the only one I would list as a lair would be the Fortress of Solitude. Why? Because Superman is the only one that uses it. Unlike the Batcave, which is used by most of the bat-brats.

Like it or not, they still go there for supplies and information. The same cannot be said for the Fortress of Solitude. Superboy, Supergirl, even Wonder Woman may access it, but they do not with-out Superman being there. Why? Because it is his. The bat-brats do not need Batman to be there to get into the cave. They just go and get what they need. Why? Because it is their base,

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Actually, don't bother. You already know that every single person is going to mark Personal Lair for the Batcave. You know that because before this innane conversation started, you would have too.

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Nope. I would have, even with-out this conversation, called the batcave a base if anybody asked. I have given my reasoning why, now how about you give your reasoning why not?

If not, then just agree to disagree and move on. The fact of the matter is, we are still arguing opinion. You can continue to incorrectly insist that my opinion is not my opinion, which is really getting old, or you can actually try to give me a reason to change my opinion.

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The Batcave is well know for all Batman's trophies. A Giant Penny, a dinosaur, various weapons that he's taken from his enemies. Tons of stuff. What does Robin have? A little shelf in the corner. I'm not making that up, a recent issue of Flash had Flash and Nightwing reminiscing about it. It wasn't even a nice shelf from Ikea, it was a board that Robin had nailed to the wall.

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So, you are going to take a flashback from when Nightwing was a kid as the current state in which the cave is currently in? Keep in mind that he said he had just started his collection. Yes, I have that issue, too.

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Weijyan, you're not saying otherwise because you actually believe that the Bat Family is a supergroup. You just made an odd arguement, and now you're stuck defending it.

Let it go.

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It is not so odd of an arguement. And I already tried to let it go. Remember above? I suggested we just agree to disagree? That suggestion stands, but if you want to keep going, so can I. After all, all we really are arguing is opinion. You have yours, I have mine. You have said nothing to change mine, and I apparently have said nothing to change yours.

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Batman, Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl, Oracle, Azrial, Huntress (not full time), Spoiler (now deceased). Sounds like a supergroup to me.

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And Batman recruited these individuals BEFORE the construction of the sumptuous and very functional Batcave? What's that? No, he didn't? You speak out of the backside on this? I thought so.

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Oh, sorry. I did not know that building a base before picking a team was what prevented a group from being considered a group.

For the record, the original Robin and the original Batgirl joined the fight before the batcave was especially functional. When Robin joined, it was mostly just a garage with a computer. When Batgirl joined, it was not much more improved.

So, to quote you, "You speak out of the backside on this? I thought so."

In the post you quoted me from originally, I talked about more than just Batman, yet Batman was the only one you concentrated on. Hence, my comment of you singling out Batman from my comments.

And if you never insinuated that I wanted a Batcave, then why keep telling me that I cannot have one?

I guess we are going to just agree to disagree on what constitutes a supergroup. By my definition, Batman and crew is a supergroup in the same way the Titans are. They are a group of affiliated heroes that work out of the same general area and use the same home base. Whether they have their own besides the group base is irrelevant, no matter how many times you insist that they do not use it enough. One more time, it is not how often you access to it, it is how often you are allowed to access it.

As for my need to prove Batman and crew as a supergroup, I guess it would be about the same as your need to prove to me your incorrect view of them not being a supergroup.

I never asked for a Batcave in CoX. I just pointed out 3 things. 1: You do not need to have a huge group to have a base. 2: Super-heroes will often have a personal base of operations in addition to a group base of operations. 3: It is not a matter of how many use it on a day-to-day basis, rather a matter of how many it is there for.

I was merely arguing my point with the examples given. You singled on Batman, even though I also mentioned the Fantastic Four, the Avengers, and the Justice League. I

f you would rather, we could always use the Teen Titans. On average, 5 to 8 members at a time. They get a whole building to themselves, even though some of them already have bases of their own, multiple bases in some cases.

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Your logic is flawed.

Green Arrow has his own base, but he uses the JLA tower for certain things. Oracle doesn't use the Batcave for anything. Oracle uses the Batcave in the same way that I use my brother's house. I visit, but I don't live there and I'm not a member of the housefhold by any useful definition.

Spoiler was only Robin when Tim Drake wasn't Robin. Yes, she counts, but only during the time that Tim Drake doesn't count.

It's like trying to say that the Fantastic Four is a large Supergroup because they've had dozens of members. No, at any given time they've had 4. That means that their total hours of membership is exactly the same as a group that's been around the same amount of time and had the same 4 people the entire time. The Fantastic Four is not a medium sized group, they're a small group. The Batcave doesn't service a Supergroup, it services 2 or 3 people and others come to visit.

The Batcave is not a Superbase. It is a Hideout. It is *exactly* what people are thinking of when they ask for hideouts. Yeah, Batman has a lot of friends. That doesn't change the fact that the Hideout system is being designed to serve the functions of the Batcave, and Superbases are being designed around larger groups.

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Okay, so just because only Batman, Nightwing, Robin, and Batgirl base out of it, it is not a base? By that definition, the Baxter Building is a hideout, even though it is common knowledge that the Fantastic Four base out of it.

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Nightwing and Oracle have their own places, and Batgirl and Spoiler aren't there nearly as much as Robin.

I can easily discount them. They're visiting, not using it as a base. At any given time, there are only 2 heroes using the Batcave as their base of operations. That's a Hideout, not a Superbase.

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By your definition, you have excluded that vast majourity of groups in comic books. After all, most majour heroes have their own base of operations and only use their affilated group bases for group missions and such.

JLA? Every member of the JLA has their own place aside from the JLA headquarters. Hell, the JLA headquarters, until recently was in space (their old satalite) or on the moon. Everybody commutes on that one.

Avengers? There might be a member or two that stay at the base, the the vast majourity center themselves out of other places. A lot of them do not even live in the New York area where the Avengers mansion is.

You are confusing rate of use with ability to use. It is not about how often people use a base. It is about whether they use it at all or not.

Every member of the gloom brigade (bat-brats) access the cave semi-regularly. They wear uniforms that are centered around a specific theme. And, like most of the bigger supergroups in existance, they all center themselves out of differing areas.

By the way, most recently, Batgirl (number 2) has been at the Batcave more often than Robin (3). And Spoiler almost lived there when she was Robin. (She actually had a house and a mother, but was not really there much)

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Azrael was a replacement for Batman, so he wasn't there at the same time much. Spoiler/Robin, Tim/Robin, Jason/Robin were not active at the same time. Nightwing and Batgirl mainly just come to visit, they don't use it as much as the active Robin and Batman. So really, the Batcave is only used significantly by two people at any given time.

That's not a supergroup, that's a duo. The devs are adding Hideouts to the game later. The devs said Hideouts will be much better suited to 1 or 2 players.

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Batman, Nightwing, Batgirl, Robin, and Oracle. And Spoiler before she died. Just because more than one person has never been active as Robin at the same time does not mean you can discount Robin all together.

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Batman, Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl, Oracle, Azrial, Huntress (not full time), Spoiler (now deceased). Sounds like a supergroup to me.

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No. They're not a group - they don't all get unlimited access to the Batcave.

Indeed, Azrial is LOCKED OUT, most or all of the time. Nightwing IS Robin ... grown up. (One can consider "beign robin" to be "being trained to be a costumed vigilante"; indeed, I'm waiting for Batman to pick a Robin that actually has some sort of superpower ...!) Batgirl isn't part of the Dynamic Duo, she's just an ally with a similar theme. Likewise for Huntress. Oracle I don't know, but I doubt he's any more "on the in" than Batgirl is.

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The only thing you have right, really, is Azrial. At one point, he was Batman's replacement. I have not seen much of him lately, though. He got his own book and that was the last I really heard of him with the exception of the War Games story.

Nightwing is the first Robin all grown up. There have been 4 (or 5, if you count the time Tim Drake quit and came back), two of which have died. So there is both a Nightwing and a Robin. Both Nightwing and Robin have full access to the Batcave. Neither overly use it, though they both still tie into the Batcave computer database on a regular basis.

Spoiler also became Robin for a while, when Drake (Robin 3) quit. She was eventually killed during the War Games story. Before her death, she had full access to the Batcave.

Oracle was the original Batgirl and is completely in the know. She is the one that keeps communication between all of the bats, even doing work for the JLA. That said, one could say she is more in the know that even Captian Pointy-ears, himself. She has had full access to the Batcave since her time as the original Batgirl.

The current Batgirl actually spends more time teaming with the current Robin, but she is training under Oracle and Batman. Batman actually gave her the costume she wears and endorses her as an official bat-brat, something he did not do for the original (at first), or many others. Her goal is to actually take Batman's place eventually. I am not sure how much access she has to the Batcave, though. They generally show her either at Oracle's or her own place. But both places tie into the Batcave's mainframe.

The Huntress.. Okay, you got me there. The Huntress has no access to the Batcave and I do not think she ever really has.

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the Fantastic "Four" - has included everyone from Spiderman to the their Mailman as 'official' members

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I don't count "crossovers" as "being a full-fledged member". SGs team with non-SG heroes all the time, in comics and in COH/V.

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Actually, official members of the Fantastic Four have included Wolverine, She-Hulk, Ant-Man, Spider-man, among others. She-Hulk took Thing's place for a while after the Secret Wars. Wolverine, Spider-man, Ghost Rider, and Dr. Strange took the place of the entire Fantastic Four for a while as the "New Fantastic Four". Ant-man joined the team for a period when Reed was thought to be dead. Even Namor was a member for a while.

Still, even with all of that, there have only been a total of 11 or 12 members, and never more than 4 at a time. Sometimes, there were as few as 3 members in the Fantastic Four. Rather like the Teen Titans, who have never really had more than 6 or 7 on the team at a time. Unless, of course, you count issues where they had old titans return for an issue.

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If you only want a small SG - then keep in mind that Batman, although a singular hero - is both insanely wealthy and has had years to build that ultra cool base. In the early days the batcave was nothing more than an underground garage.

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Batman (even the Dynamic Duo together), I don't count as an SG.

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Batman, Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl, Oracle, Azrial, Huntress (not full time), Spoiler (now deceased). Sounds like a supergroup to me.

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Spiderman ... has a closet. Keep it in perspective.

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For the old TV series, "Spiderman and his Mazing Friends", the trio of Spiderman, Iceman, and Firestar had a pretty well-equipped apartment, actually. SG Mission Computer in the living room, at the very least.

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Spider-man has also been members of a number of super-groups. He has been a member of the Fantastic Four, and is still friends with Johnny Storm. He is still a reserve member of the Avengers. He keeps a locker at both places and has full access to training facilities of the Avengers.

As such, he has no need for a headquarters of his own. After all, why pay the massive electric bill all bases always accur when somebody else will pay it for you? Besides, do you know how hard it is to get phone and electric in the name of Mr. S. Man? Definately a head-ache in the making....

Hmm... I double checked the file, and it exists at that location, but it will not let anybody access it outside of ftp. I have never had that happen before, sorry. I converted it to txt files for those still interested.

http://lcoee.wuyausu.com/onitest.txt

And yes, I already double checked by pulling it up in ie6 to make sure...

From visual observation, I would say you are right. I recorded the test, but am going to be out of town for a week or so. I uploaded the demo file and will link it below for anybody who wishes to do the math. If you do go through it, please post the results here.

I did 3 jumps with hurdle and sj with 1 so, then did 3 more with sj with 2 so's and hurdle with 1.

http://lcoee.wuyausu.com/oni1.cohdemo

Actually, it will be jump so's, but yeah, I know.

Okay, before I respec, I will dump all of the DO's I have in SJ and drop a single SO into both it and Hurdle. After running it for a while to test the height, distances, and speeds of the jumps, I will drop a second SO in to see if it makes a difference. I will try to get enough inf tonight to copy the character over to test and try it.

Maybe a stupid question, but...

If you use a so in hurdle, would that reduce the number of so's you need in sj from 3 to 2?