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That's a GREAT idea! While we're at it, could you put Psi protection into Invulnerability?
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An invuln tankers is virtually immune to most forms of damage as well as holds, plus has way more hitpoints than any defender could ever possibly have. You can't compare the sets just with vulnerability to psi. Play a force field defender then get back to me on how much worse off invuln is. 
Also, while I'm posting let me add on to what I said earlier. Defender powers need to be better not just in terms of numbers(like resistance debuffs and heals) but also things like speed boost, accelerate metabolism, the radius of heals, buffs/debuffs etc. A defender dispersion bubble should be bigger than a controllers, same with EF. You should be able to look at a power being used and know whether it's a defender using it or not. Since Kin defenders can't hold, an increase in the radius of transfusion and transference would really help things out.
Shared powersets need to be distinctly different so that defenders have an advantage over controllers in terms of buffs throughout the whole game.
As I said before, the best defensive powers in the games are the massive holds that prevent any attacks from going off. Defenders just can't match that. We need to be brought up to speed, particularly after controllers can do everything we can + hold + pets.
My bet is that once I5 hits and controllers pre-32 are tweaked, you will see a lot of unhappy defenders that have had their niche usurped.
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Of course, not being able to use as many inspirations would hurt defenders plenty as well.
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It would? How? Where?
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Hey now, no need to get sarcastic.
Invulns, that is their only hole. They have complete status protection. They have massive resistance, which when layered with defense from invincibility allows me to herd up an unyeilding mission solo, put whirling axe on autofire and go make supper for my fiancee and myself. Vince also afford them a good aggro management tool and a lot of accuracy, and every one of their powers except (arguably) tough hide is useful. No, psi resistance or defense would be very very wrong on an invuln for the reason you posted.
But not, IMO for FF defenders. They don't have or grant resistance of any kind. If something gets through the defense the bubbles provide, they can't do a thing about it without pools. Plus they have the added problems of no self targetting, so their best powers don't work on themselves, a couple of holes in their status protection (I mentioned sleep already, but knock* needs a go), and the fact that most of the set is filled with powers that are only marginally, if at all useful.
I think a psi shield is needed. I think it should be a targetted shield with the same 4 minute timer that the other two have. I also think this should be a defender only change, because controllers have ways with their primaries to deal with psi using baddies. It doesn't have to have the same base defense of the other two, but something, anything to make the FF defender feel more like a defender and less like an underpowered blaster when faced with things like psychic clockwork.
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Of course, not being able to use as many inspirations would hurt defenders plenty as well.
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It would? How? Where?
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Breakfrees. Nuff said 
Reds are the only way for some defenders to hit damage caps.
For people with little or no defense, 4 good lucks could make the difference between faceplanting and not.
For defenders who need to have their primary powers hit, loading up yellows can make the difference between life and death vs higher level enemies.
Anything you do to limit inspirations will boomerang back on defenders in several ways.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
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Of course, not being able to use as many inspirations would hurt defenders plenty as well.
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It would? How? Where?
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Breakfrees. Nuff said
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Breakfrees leave you immune for a period don't they? Have you ever had to pop multiple of them in a few seconds?
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Reds are the only way for some defenders to hit damage caps.
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You mean other than being buffed by others?
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For people with little or no defense, 4 good lucks could make the difference between faceplanting and not.
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If it is that dangerous, arguably you shouldn't be fighting it alone.
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For defenders who need to have their primary powers hit, loading up yellows can make the difference between life and death vs higher level enemies.
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Again, perhaps you shouldn't be able to use yellows to hit +8 mobs.
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Anything you do to limit inspirations will boomerang back on defenders in several ways.
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In no ways that don't affect others and in few if any ways that deter the ability to function in the realm where most people function--not fighting absurdly high level mobs.
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My experience with breakfrees is that their Magnitude is lower than the old Disciplines. Stacked up effects have gotten through them as I recall. I'd have to test - it could just be that I had an effect on me when the breakfree I'd popped, wore off, since their duration is shorter than a single-target defender can win many battles against +3s.
In which case, it still is a problem because if I can't overlap breakfrees I can't keep from being detoggled when the previous break free wears off.
I'm not talking about +8s. I'm talking about +3s and +4s. Depending on what your build is and what enemy you're fighting, you might need stacked purples or yellows to pull your tush out of the fire. Not every defender is dark or radiation
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
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People do complain that defenders lose their role somewhere around the late 30s when the controllers now have access to all the defender's powers via the secondary (darkies excepted of course). One could argue that something similar happens to blasters at the same time, but I don't think it's as pronounced, due to the large gap between blaster and defender base damage. The gap between defender and controller buff/debuff sets are too close, and often non existant. Add to that the people who finally figure out around that level that the defender AT's name is misleading and that controllers can actually defend their teams better than defenders can, and the defenders start feeling neglected.
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While I agree that controller's secondary effectiveness is too close to that of defenders, many defenders are still quite solable up to 50, the same can't be said for blasters. Many defender primaries provide MUCH better defense than blasters have. Or to put it another way, a team of 8 defenders can take on any AV at the highest setting, a team of 8 blasters can't say the same thing.
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That's a GREAT idea! While we're at it, could you put Psi protection into Invulnerability?
Holes exist in powersets on purpose. Nothing is perfect, everyone needs help with something. Maybe it's funny that two INVs used a Blaster with PFF to tank the Psychic Clockwork King. . . the Blaster thought it was, anyway.
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Were you not listening when I said my DM/Invul defeated Mother Mayhem solo? No heals. No buffs. No debuffs.
If your Invul tankers weren't such pansies they'd eat 4-5 Lucks and go at it. With a good team the fight is over before they even wear off (1 minute... yay for Break Free disparity!)
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Breakfrees leave you immune for a period don't they? Have you ever had to pop multiple of them in a few seconds?
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I regularly get held through 2-3 Break Frees. It's almost to the point where I don't bother with them unless it's an emergency. I'm just going to get held again 2 seconds later.
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While I agree there needs to be somesort of of look here, I wouldn't descibe my rad/dark medicore, nor most Dark/*, Storm/*, or Kinetic/* . My Rad/Dark did quite fine, it's just that some primaries do better at this range than others. As I stated before, I think our fundimental problem is that controllers share too many powersets with us, Just looning at the disparity, my rad/dark( now 50) had no trouble with the issue 3 bosses, I actually liked that they were tougher with the extra xp, my wife's emp/rad on the other hand......
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For the record..... I'm against nerfing. My point was that when controllers get their slots for their summom's/pet's they out power defenders huge. Where as a Defenders Cousin (the Blaster), there is a huge gap in their overall usefullness to a team.
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Kins and Dark Defenders get better healing abilitys and buffs then a true emp does.
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In my 43 levels of being a dark defender, I've never buffed anyone. Silly me! 
Regarding healing, that comparison only holds true for the actual heal numbers of Twilight Grasp and Transfusion compared to Healing Aura. Take into account that most of us dark/kin folks dedicate at least two slots to accuracy, and none have Heal Other or Absorb Pain ... there's really no need for an empathy defender to have "heal envy" of us. Feel free to have "no need to heal" envy of us dark defenders though!
I won't even touch that "true empath" comment. Nope. Not me.
<runs and hides>
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You don't have Shadow Fall? That's a very important power later on.
Still here, even after all this time!
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While I agree there needs to be somesort of of look here, I wouldn't descibe my rad/dark medicore, nor most Dark/*, Storm/*, or Kinetic/* . My Rad/Dark did quite fine, it's just that some primaries do better at this range than others. As I stated before, I think our fundimental problem is that controllers share too many powersets with us, Just looning at the disparity, my rad/dark( now 50) had no trouble with the issue 3 bosses, I actually liked that they were tougher with the extra xp, my wife's emp/rad on the other hand......
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For the record..... I'm against nerfing. My point was that when controllers get their slots for their summom's/pet's they out power defenders huge. Where as a Defenders Cousin (the Blaster), there is a huge gap in their overall usefullness to a team.
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I don't thinks its so much nerfs are required, but rather buffing some sets such as empathy as to allow self buffs would go a long way making the 40+ game more enjoyable for everybody. The fact is defenders do have to deal with sharing a good chunk of our primaries with controllers.
Now for defenders who may have problems finding teams in the 40+range, I'd suggest:
-form your own teams, maybe all defenders, one of the major differences between an all defender team vs. all scrapper, tank or blaster teams, is that defender synergy. that is an all defender team's effectiveness is greater than the sum of the parts, while blasters, scrappers, &tank team's effectiveness is the sum of the parts. The classic example is an all Rad defender team.
-Find a good Supergroup and make a lot of friends, don't underestimate the social aspect, of the game.
-Blasters, they will always need defenders, and in some cases they will need us more, than we need them
For emps who seem to have the hardest time,
Remember Fortitude, it offers psi resist, some tanker/scrapper defenses are useless against psi, both unyeilding and invincibility are totally useless against psi foes, of which there are many both AV and non-av in the late game
I just think with emps a few don't realize they really need to change from healers to buffers in the late game. For bubblers, I thnk they would be in more demand if Force Bubble was changed into a +resist version of dispersion bubble.
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that is an all defender team's effectiveness is greater than the sum of the parts
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The reason it's greater than the sum of it's parts is because a Defender doesn't get to use all of their parts.
Go through and check out how many powers a Defender has that can't be used without a team mate. A really basic example is comparing Emp and Dark. An Empath on their own can't really do anything cool, but with 8 of them in a team it gets really powerful. Lots of +Def... great status resists... +recovery... +recharge... the whole lot! On the other hand, the only thing a team of 8 Darks can really offer over a lone Dark is the stacked bonuses from Tar Patch. It's not syngery... it's dependance.
So while you may think AM is a classic example, I would say AM is the exception.
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that is an all defender team's effectiveness is greater than the sum of the parts
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The reason it's greater than the sum of it's parts is because a Defender doesn't get to use all of their parts.
Go through and check out how many powers a Defender has that can't be used without a team mate. A really basic example is comparing Emp and Dark. An Empath on their own can't really do anything cool, but with 8 of them in a team it gets really powerful. Lots of +Def... great status resists... +recovery... +recharge... the whole lot! On the other hand, the only thing a team of 8 Darks can really offer over a lone Dark is the stacked bonuses from Tar Patch. It's not syngery... it's dependance.
So while you may think AM is a classic example, I would say AM is the exception.
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For darks, in addition to tar patch 8 times over(doing 340% total dmg, not base dmg)
Shadowfall x8, its defense and resist stack togother
not to mention anywhere between 8 & 24 Dark Servants running about
Darkest Night, totally gimping mobs accuracy and dmg output to miniscule numbers, a team of 8 darks can be quite impressive beyond just tar patch( as a side note, the funnest 8 defender team would be 8 storms, its like watching a soccer game rather than a fight)
Also using classic example of buffs/debuffs, not just single targets stacking,
Accelerate Metabolism
Enervating Field
Radiation Infection
Hurricane
Freezing Rain
Dispersion Bubble
Siphon Speed( the +recharge aspect)
Siphon Power( the -dmg debuff)
Fulcram Shift( -the -dmg debuff)
Tar Patch(-resist)
Darkest Night
Shadow Fall
Steamy Mist
Ones limited by various caps, but very good when facing AV's
Lingering Rad
Snow Storm
Siphon Speed( the remaining aspects of the power)
Siphon Power(+1 dmf buff)
Fulcram Shift(+1 dmg buff)
Tar Patch(-speed)
Also on the single target buffs, it goes beyond just being able to buff each other, on some buffs, a single defender can't stack
more than one of the same buff on the same person, while multiples can( classic example are the FF shields)
Granted 8 emps will see the biggest difference when grouped together.
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That's why I recommend everyone to make a bubble defender. You'll quickly learn both team and solo aspects and as an added bonus you're not going to get any 'uber' final powers that you feel the need to fire off constantly.
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Damnit the glass is half EMPTY, not full, EMPTY!
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Come on Jesterman, you know that as soon as you delete your bubbler Force Bubble is going to be made into a field that causes fear and bloating in mobs, or maybe something that makes all psi users on the map explode.
I know 
That's why I didn't delete him in November. At this point I'd rather play a peacebringer though instead of a bubbler so it's cool. Only 6 more levels too!
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For darks, in addition to tar patch 8 times over(doing 340% total dmg, not base dmg)
Shadowfall x8, its defense and resist stack togother
not to mention anywhere between 8 & 24 Dark Servants running about
Darkest Night, totally gimping mobs accuracy and dmg output to miniscule numbers, a team of 8 darks can be quite impressive beyond just tar patch( as a side note, the funnest 8 defender team would be 8 storms, its like watching a soccer game rather than a fight)
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You forget the 8 X Darkest Night (ie. 10% damage (the minimum) and a *whopping* 640% accuracy debuff.)
{BTW, did you now that debuffing damage is the exact (mirror) same as the 90% resistance cap, but applies to all ATs?}
Still here, even after all this time!
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Over in the Tanker section of the forums someone noted that inspirations also play a part in the desirability of Defenders.
If you can pop 3 or 4 Luck inspirations and be relatively safe from being hit, do you need a Defender to buff your Accuracy?
The idea of restricting how many inspirations can be used (of a type or total) is being bounced around.
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That is an interesting idea...
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For darks, in addition to tar patch 8 times over(doing 340% total dmg, not base dmg)
Shadowfall x8, its defense and resist stack togother
not to mention anywhere between 8 & 24 Dark Servants running about
Darkest Night, totally gimping mobs accuracy and dmg output to miniscule numbers
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You forget the 8 X Darkest Night (ie. 10% damage (the minimum) and a *whopping* 640% accuracy debuff.)
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A single Dark Defender is already capable of flooring accuracy and damage on +4 mobs. Because of the purple patch it's not really worth fighting above that level. A second Dark Defender adds a bit... but by the 4th or 5th, you're just getting a ghetto Blaster with holds.
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For darks, in addition to tar patch 8 times over(doing 340% total dmg, not base dmg)
Shadowfall x8, its defense and resist stack togother
not to mention anywhere between 8 & 24 Dark Servants running about
Darkest Night, totally gimping mobs accuracy and dmg output to miniscule numbers
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You forget the 8 X Darkest Night (ie. 10% damage (the minimum) and a *whopping* 640% accuracy debuff.)
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A single Dark Defender is already capable of flooring accuracy and damage on +4 mobs. Because of the purple patch it's not really worth fighting above that level. A second Dark Defender adds a bit... but by the 4th or 5th, you're just getting a ghetto Blaster with holds.
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+4 mobs? Since when? You might be able to affect them, but I seriously doubt "floor" their accuracy/damage by yourself at +4.
{EDIT: Also note, Dark Miasma has only one AOE damage debuff for about 25-35%. The other damage debuff is your targeted heal so can only affect one target.}
Still here, even after all this time!
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You'd think in the highest difficulty battles, AV's, that a Defender would be desired. Many times in the teams I've been on people have asked for a Rad Controller. When I've said how about a Rad Defender, you know because they DeBuff more, they've said they'd rather have someone who can do actual damage. It's mind boggling but it happens.
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Gah... I'm so sick of this perception. My Rad/Rad can wipe out groups much faster than my Fire/Rad could ever hope to. Imps will eventually kill everything, but being able to deal lots of AoE direct damage is just plain faster when fighting stuff that I'm suited to killing.
The only item on my Defender wishlist is the ability to buff myself. I realise this is probably more of a game mechanics thing since no one can target themselves, but I do wish it could be resolved.
Well the HO nerf should help Defenders a bit in PVP. So that is a nice little start.
Cheers!
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On top of all that the primary role, the only thing that people are happy to have in their team, has two rather massive holes in it, sleep and psi. Of these two, I'd have to say that Psi is the bigger problem, as sleep can be easily mitigated, but in a fight against a psi using enemy, the FFer feels useless.
Possible solution: replace one of the lesser used powers (I would humbly suggest repulsion bomb) with a third targetted field specifically for Psi. Sure, it would be situational, and wouldn't protect the caster, but at least it would keep the FFer from feeling like they should throw in the towel when some baddie procs pink bubbles.
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That's a GREAT idea! While we're at it, could you put Psi protection into Invulnerability?
Holes exist in powersets on purpose. Nothing is perfect, everyone needs help with something. Maybe it's funny that two INVs used a Blaster with PFF to tank the Psychic Clockwork King. . . the Blaster thought it was, anyway.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.