OK, I've read through the thread now.
This isn't quite as bad as the first proposal. If it goes live, I'll grit my teeth but I'll learn to live with it.
I just want to reiterate, though: one minute is not long enough.
Given your stated incentive to prevent people from using being dead to powerlevel safely, it doesn't make sense to cut it off after just one minute. You could let it be for five or ten minutes and the dead people wouldn't even come close to working off the debt they got from dying, let alone powerlevelling. C'mon, make it five minutes.
And I still think it's unfair that teams who hunt split up should be penalized like this.
Well the PLers can still PL in mishes, and it frees PI, Bricks, and Talos from a lot of PL lag (which I think spurred some of this).
Sounds fair on all fronts, although street sweeping is hurt by it. But I'll trade a little sweeping in for lag reduction. Course that's just one radioactive corpse's take on it 
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What about the group holds that do no damage whatsoever. Can't it be changed so the holds do at least 1 point of damage or so that you get exp if you affect the groups of enemies somehow? I still dont like the idea of having to deal some kind of damage and stay alive. This also affects my defender who is a "happy healer" and has no attacks anyways. Maybe we can increase max life on defenders and controllers so they're not as "squishy."
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Well, it's more of an incentive to PROTECT the squishies rather than just running in. Besides, you have a full minute to be dead. Most mobs can be taken out in a minute, except AVs. Not getting AV XP would suck but... oh well.
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The XP for AVs already sucks for the time it takes to defeat most of them!
Still here, even after all this time!
This is still a bad idea IMO... what is this supposed to help or make better??
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Let us know when these people drive you insane from their utter lack of reading comprehension.
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He's a big boy. He can handle it. Which is more than I can say for you. Sorry I wanted to make sure of what he said before I gave any opinions.
Well actually, no I'm not.
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Now, let me clarify the situation with Badges and Defeat tasks. As long as you or any of your teammates are within 200 ft. of the defeated mob, EVERYONE on the team gets credit. This is not a change in Issue 4; this is the way that it currently works.
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Ummmm...I thought the way it currently worked, for badge tallies, is that you get badge credit for kills anywhere in the zone?
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Sounds like if you are over 200' no one gets credit.
So no sniping for badges!
Still here, even after all this time!
Suggestion: How about you get full XP if you're doing a mission? In other words, Leader A sets kill 10 Council mission. Leader A and Teamie B spilt up and still get full XP because it's for a mission.
Personal Opinion: I have to give a huge "Meh." to the entire system, really. My particular irk is the fact that you made it so you get full XP on a mission...the thing is that missions were what most PLers were using in the first place (Wolves, Dreck, blah blah blah)! What I'm saying is that the system at its core focus, to stop powerleveling, is really weak. You're only really cutting down about (*made up statistic*) maybe 1/4-1/3 of powerleveling, and then hurting the sub-group of those who prefer to street hunt.
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
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And the problem is? If you're not working together on the same fights, why should you get xp for them? I don't know, maybe I'm weird in that I don't think we should have to earn the xp we get...
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Of course as a counterpoint to that, your XPs will still be reduced as if those people DID help you with that fight, even though you fought it alone. I've never minded my teammates getting a share of my XPs in those situations, and I in turn get a share of theirs. However, if they changed it so that XPs were calculated based on only the number of people in range, so that you get the "right" amount of XPs, then it would be instantly exploited by powerlevelers. The sidekicked powerlevelee would stay in range of the guy fighting and the mentor would stay in range of the sidekick but not the mobs being fought. That would give the SK even more XPs than if this change had never been implemented. So, that's the conundrum the devs face. Give you the XPs you deserve or give the PLers an even better PLing system. Obviously they chose the former.
Ultimately this was designed to do one thing, stop people from being able to level their characters by standing at the train or zoneline while someone else fights elsewhere in the zone. It will do that nicely. Unfortunately, those who like to divide up and street sweep got caught in the crossfire. They aren't engaging in the type of behavior that the devs are trying to hinder, but there is no easy way to differentiate between those who are legitimately fighting in separate locations and those who are powerleveling someone. Maybe eventually they will improve it a bit more to detect that distinction and allow those people to go back to playing the way they enjoy.
Dwimble
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Let us know when these people drive you insane from their utter lack of reading comprehension. The previous XP Range thread had you responding left and right to MORONIC misinterpretations of your very clear description. To the point that I can only think the ridiculous accusations were deliberate misreadings by people who didn't like the changes.
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You read my mind...
They've already been trying to nerf wolf-type powerleveling in missions. Notice that wolves now have ranged attacks AND now can knockback. This is detrimental to fire tankers using Burn. Unless they take Acrobatics. Then it's meh.
There was one proposal that was in the original thread that I hope you'll take a second look at. Instead of no XP if you're dead, XP will go 100% to debt, once you're out of debt then the xp is lost.
For people being power leveled, they'll get rid of their debt quickly but not advance in levels. For people playing normally, one fight isn't going to clear the debt accrued by the death, so they still get credit.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
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I think all this effort into curbing powerlevelers is a waste of resources. Plvlers will find out how to do whatever they want with the tools at hand. This hampers a few plvling techniques, but exacts a tangible cost to players in terms of freedom to play how they want. Overall, I don't think this will have any real effect on plvling. They'll go do their outdoor mission maps, and players doing content will have to do their "Kill 150 Crey" hunt missions in a big group because you wanted to fix a problem that doesn't exist.
I don't buy the plvling hurts the game argument because what it really comes down to is "Is the content interesting enough to curb Plvling?" For a lot of players it is. For some players, it doesn't matter, they'll always plvl. For some, they have half a dozen toons over lvl 40, and they've done every mission, badge, story arc, TF, trial, etc. 3-4 times, and they just want to play with a new AT/build.
You're trying to tell people how to play the game, even though they're playing well within the confines of your world. If its not griefing, and doesn't violate the CoC/ToS, either leave it alone, or make it an exploit. To me, tram plvlers are like RP'ers in Galaxy. Its not how I chose to play the game, but it doesn't bother me one bit. Some people are going to do only missions for their xp (until mid 30's when you start running out) because it makes them feel heroic. Some are gonna roll up a Taxi Bot and recall people all day. Some will host a play in Perez Park, and some will sit all day while getting plvled by a friend or 2nd account.
Lastly, a quick question: How does this effect badge credit? I NEVER do hunt badges within 300 yds of my teammates, often a mile or more away. Like many players, I've put a lot of time into collecting my hunt badges, solo and in teams. I currently have all of them (except for isolator, which I did not have the option of getting). If I had to stay close to teamates to get badge credit however, I definitely wouldn't have bothered with many of them.
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You have nailed it on the head, i can only add that Extra code means extra bugs/lag. This is Thick headed. The plers have already given fine examples of how to circumvent this.....What exactly are the devs trying to cure now?
Hey Statesman... give me one "good" reason to why you are doing this... really all i want is a good reason... shouldn't be that hard to come up with... really... but whatever... I as like many others if this "xp range" is put into action on live server will be cancelling my account and going back to boring EQ or WoW i mean i would rather be in a laggy game like WoW and have fun... then be on this game with the devs making up crackpot idea's just to annoy the players of this game and btw shouldn't we get to vote on the devs changing anything on this game I mean really... we do pay for this so we should have a right to vote on which way "you" decide to ruin this game...
OK, as I continue to follow this...
I like the suggestion that holds do 1 pt of damage. Or 0.01 pt. I don't care. As a scrapper and tank enthusiast, I like my targets still. The hold that stopped them is as valuable as my hit.
Make debuffs do 0.01 pt of damage per tick of time. See above.
Figure out a way to add that 0.01 pt damage to any mob hit by a buffed teammate. That's the hard code...tell me, though, that there aren't a thousand guys waiting to get a crack at coding something like that and get paid for it.
If what controllers and defenders are designed to do does not reap rewards, then 1) I will not play those ATs and 2) they will lose their effectiveness.
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Hey Statesman... give me one "good" reason to why you are doing this... really all i want is a good reason... shouldn't be that hard to come up with... really... but whatever... I as like many others if this "xp range" is put into action on live server will be cancelling my account and going back to boring EQ or WoW i mean i would rather be in a laggy game like WoW and have fun... then be on this game with the devs making up crackpot idea's just to annoy the players of this game and btw shouldn't we get to vote on the devs changing anything on this game I mean really... we do pay for this so we should have a right to vote on which way "you" decide to ruin this game...
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/sarcasm on
Right... Statesman "ruins the game" with a change, suddenly you want to go to two games that have developers that have been ruining their games since day one. You make a very convincing argument.
/sarcasm off
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OK, as I continue to follow this...
I like the suggestion that holds do 1 pt of damage. Or 0.01 pt. I don't care. As a scrapper and tank enthusiast, I like my targets still. The hold that stopped them is as valuable as my hit.
Make debuffs do 0.01 pt of damage per tick of time. See above.
Figure out a way to add that 0.01 pt damage to any mob hit by a buffed teammate. That's the hard code...tell me, though, that there aren't a thousand guys waiting to get a crack at coding something like that and get paid for it.
If what controllers and defenders are designed to do does not reap rewards, then 1) I will not play those ATs and 2) they will lose their effectiveness.
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....as long as you don't run halfway across the zone before the fight's over you still get credit. Seriously. 300ft is a considerable distance, and if you're going to be applying any support things you're going to be within that distance.
Culex's resistance guide
If the XP changes are to stop PL'rs then here is a suggestion. The only way to stop PL'rs is to put restrections on zones like Brickstown and PI. That is the only way PL'ing will stop just because Bricks has big mobs and PI is where the wolf mission is. PL'rs will find ways to PL no matter what you do. I myself do not care if people get PL'd like someone said they went threw the game did every mission, story arc, tf, etc etc etc and they just wanna play a diffrent build. To some people its all about bragging rights i.e. I got 5 lvl 50's. Other people and I know you know sell accounts or PL on e bay. PL'rs will alway's PL no matter what. They will always find a way.
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OK, as I continue to follow this...
I like the suggestion that holds do 1 pt of damage. Or 0.01 pt. I don't care. As a scrapper and tank enthusiast, I like my targets still. The hold that stopped them is as valuable as my hit.
Make debuffs do 0.01 pt of damage per tick of time. See above.
Figure out a way to add that 0.01 pt damage to any mob hit by a buffed teammate. That's the hard code...tell me, though, that there aren't a thousand guys waiting to get a crack at coding something like that and get paid for it.
If what controllers and defenders are designed to do does not reap rewards, then 1) I will not play those ATs and 2) they will lose their effectiveness.
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If you are close enough to hold the mob, you're within 300 feet and will get your XP share, why the need for 0.01 dmg?
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If the XP changes are to stop PL'rs then here is a suggestion. The only way to stop PL'rs is to put restrections on zones like Brickstown and PI. That is the only way PL'ing will stop just because Bricks has big mobs and PI is where the wolf mission is. PL'rs will find ways to PL no matter what you do. I myself do not care if people get PL'd like someone said they went threw the game did every mission, story arc, tf, etc etc etc and they just wanna play a diffrent build. To some people its all about bragging rights i.e. I got 5 lvl 50's. Other people and I know you know sell accounts or PL on e bay. PL'rs will alway's PL no matter what. They will always find a way.
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Okay, let me give a developer-type reason for stopping Powerleveling.
If it takes you two weeks to get to 50, and then you get bored of the game, there goes your subscription.
As long as it takes you a good three months to get bored of the game, you'll have to go through all the content, enjoying every step of the way, while paying the whole time.
This isn't to say the devs are money-grubbers, not like Blizzard and SOE, who purposely add tons and tons of timesinks to their games. This is just to prevent all that content from going to waste and encouraging longer play. It also keeps people off the devs' backs with the lack of END GAME content. If you take longer to REACH the end game, you delay boredom for a longer time.
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If the XP changes are to stop PL'rs then here is a suggestion. The only way to stop PL'rs is to put restrections on zones like Brickstown and PI. That is the only way PL'ing will stop just because Bricks has big mobs and PI is where the wolf mission is. PL'rs will find ways to PL no matter what you do. I myself do not care if people get PL'd like someone said they went threw the game did every mission, story arc, tf, etc etc etc and they just wanna play a diffrent build. To some people its all about bragging rights i.e. I got 5 lvl 50's. Other people and I know you know sell accounts or PL on e bay. PL'rs will alway's PL no matter what. They will always find a way.
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Yep, they always find a way. That's why new ways are made of stopping them. There is always going to be crime, so should we fire the police? I think not.
In other words, powerlevelers complain about getting bored with the game. Well, the devs are helping them out by preventing them from powerleveling. Just as a child will not admit their parents know what's best for them, the devs are encouraging people to go through ALL of the game's content before finishing it and getting bored with it. At least that way, there's always a goal unfinished, a sight yet to see.
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If what controllers and defenders are designed to do does not reap rewards, then 1) I will not play those ATs and 2) they will lose their effectiveness.
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I would predict we will see a lot less of the 'pure healer' classes within a few days of this going live.
**Edited due to a mistake on my part.
I originally thought it required damage to do get XP. This is incorrect. However, I do still believe that the inconvenience of having to constantly monitor range when street hunting with friends will be enough to reduce the controller population.
It will be interesting to see. I reserve final judgement until I have playtested the change for a while, but it appears to me that several of my controllers will be permanently shelved after the change goes live. How does less variety among archetype builds help a team?
Waiting and wondering....
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If the XP changes are to stop PL'rs then here is a suggestion. The only way to stop PL'rs is to put restrections on zones like Brickstown and PI. That is the only way PL'ing will stop just because Bricks has big mobs and PI is where the wolf mission is. PL'rs will find ways to PL no matter what you do. I myself do not care if people get PL'd like someone said they went threw the game did every mission, story arc, tf, etc etc etc and they just wanna play a diffrent build. To some people its all about bragging rights i.e. I got 5 lvl 50's. Other people and I know you know sell accounts or PL on e bay. PL'rs will alway's PL no matter what. They will always find a way.
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Yep, they always find a way. That's why new ways are made of stopping them. There is always going to be crime, so should we fire the police? I think not.
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There will always be PL'rs should we cancel their accounts?
I'm not saying its a bad idea I myself do not care I love the game I play it I dont get bored. I play every single day after work and on my days off. I am not bored of the game I've been PL'd no big deal but I have also played the game. All I am saying is that if its their intention to stop PL'ing by doing the xp change that its not gonna work beacause there is always a way.
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Remember, you have to do DAMAGE to get XP, not just be in range
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Wrong
Wrong
Wrong
WRONG
Read the posts again! You do NOT have to do damage to get XP, you just have to be IN RANGE. Considering your heals have a SHORTER range than this, you will ALWAYS be in range of your teammates. Just don't split up.
Ya know, I often get together with SG mates in PI or the RCS & we just split up & hunt the zone for xp. This tactic completely eliminates that opportunity, & from that perspective it's pretty annoying. I don't suppose anything I have to say will get any attention, but I thought I'd share that anyway.