[ QUOTE ]
Just as giving items from a higher level character to one of your own lower level characters is not only immoral, it's a BANNABLE offense.
[/ QUOTE ]
What? What game is that? That's a ridiculous policy, considering that it could be easily fixed in the code (level limits on items). And I fail to see how it's "immoral" in any way, either.
I'm paying for my graduate studies with a scholarship funded by a successful prior graduate of the university; is that immoral?
Problem with the level limits is that the items are usable and meant for low level characters but its high level characters that actually FIND them.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ya know, I often get together with SG mates in PI or the RCS & we just split up & hunt the zone for xp. This tactic completely eliminates that opportunity
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly. That "opportunity" is your team powerlevelling each other. You're not hunting together when you do this, you're soloing. The difference is a private channel and the xp you get for someone across the zone's kill. The point of teaming is to work together, not to just share xp.
[/ QUOTE ]
How exactly is this powerleveling? What about those who are casual gamers and do not have a lot of playtime? Splitting up into smaller teams for missions/hunting is an effective and necessary tactic to complete objectives in less time. This is not someone standing at a distance in safety while being bridged. This range limit thing is the worst idea yet.
As many have said, this will not deter or stop powerleveling. It's only going to hurt the majority of players who don't pl.
[/ QUOTE ]
Except that very example IS powerleveling. You're not actually DOING anything to get that XP. The monsters you kill are your own xp. You get a little less by having a second person on the team, but it's made up for and more by the other person hunting. Basically, you could stop hunting altogether and still be receiving experience from your teammate's kills. That's powerleveling. How is that ANY different from standing a tram while receiving credit from another's kills?
Powerleveling doesn't have to be profitable to be powerleveling. Even gaining 1xp per hour could be considered powerleveling. In the example above, there's no difference between just standing at the tram or hunting solo. You're still getting free experience from someone else, regardless of whether or not YOU are hunting.
[/ QUOTE ]
DISCLAIMER: Lord Arcaine is using a definition of PLing that is his and his alone. The developers have specifically NOT defined PLing his way.
Only the highlighted text above is of relevance to the PLing being discussed by the Devs in that the same mechanics that allow you to do this form or play (which again the DEVS have not come out against) also allows the form of PLing where someone simply sits at teh train station and racks up XP with no risk. The devs have decided that some harm to a perfectly legitimate form of play is worthwhile in order to close this loophole for PLers.
[ QUOTE ]
Exactly. He wasn't nuts about it. In all games, there are ways to PL that aren't exploits. But they still encompass the basic principle. Trading items, for example, is not an exploit. MMOs encourage it for a prosperous economy. But giving away items to lowbies? Is that an exploit? No... but it is immoral. Just as giving items from a higher level character to one of your own lower level characters is not only immoral, it's a BANNABLE offense.
[/ QUOTE ]
DISCLAIMER: LordArkaine is here using a definition of "immoral" that is his and his alone. Ask your priest if you don't believe me!
A priest's ideas of the word "immoral" greatly differ from most of society. Molestation isn't exactly on my Virtues list, and I fear you if it's on yours.
As for my definition, I never gave one so stop assuming so much. I drew a direct comparison between standing a train and split killing. They are in essence the SAME.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Exactly. He wasn't nuts about it. In all games, there are ways to PL that aren't exploits. But they still encompass the basic principle. Trading items, for example, is not an exploit. MMOs encourage it for a prosperous economy. But giving away items to lowbies? Is that an exploit? No... but it is immoral. Just as giving items from a higher level character to one of your own lower level characters is not only immoral, it's a BANNABLE offense.
[/ QUOTE ]
DISCLAIMER: LordArkaine is here using a definition of "immoral" that is his and his alone. Ask your priest if you don't believe me!
[/ QUOTE ]
Glad to see that the strange relationships with reality haven't changed for some folks. < coughs> 
(I think many of us are wondering in whose game giving items from a higher level character to a lower is 'BANNABLE'.... and by stating that "A" and "B" are immoral, you are either using the word to mean something other than what the common dictionary definition is, or you are applying it differently than most commonly would. Either way... you're uh... very... um... unique )
after reading every single post in this thread, i have one thing to say to all of you!!!!
I like tater tots.
[ QUOTE ]
after reading every single post in this thread, i have one thing to say to all of you!!!!
I like tater tots.
[/ QUOTE ]
Tater tots are over rated, where are my otter pops?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
after reading every single post in this thread, i have one thing to say to all of you!!!!
I like tater tots.
[/ QUOTE ]
Tater tots are over rated, where are my otter pops?
[/ QUOTE ]
you only get otter pops if you are within 300' of the killed otter and did damage to it, but not if you are standing at the PI tram and sending hate tells for sidekicking.
[edit]Cleared to remove remove references to deleted posts[/edit]
Tater Tots are overpowered. Hash Browns have less flavor and cost just as many calories. NERF TATER TOTS!!!
[ QUOTE ]
Based on data from the Training Room and feedback on the forums, we will be making the following changes to how XP, Influence and other drops are divided:
If a player is in a zone, did NO damage in a combat and has dead for more than a minute, he receives no XP. If a player is more than 300 ft. away (an increase of 100 ft.) from the mob when its defeated and did NO damage, he receives no XP. Otherwise, the player receives his full share of XP.
If players are on a mission map, they always receive their full shares. Theres no distance limitation. Teams can split up in maps players can be separated by elevators everyone receives their XP.
This system does not affect Mission rewards.
Well be putting the distance and mission map changes up on the Training Room soon (week or so) to see how it plays out.
Now, let me clarify the situation with Badges and Defeat tasks. As long as you or any of your teammates are within 200 ft. of the defeated mob, EVERYONE on the team gets credit. This is not a change in Issue 4; this is the way that it currently works.
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you talking no damage on a per creature basis? I'm a mind controller, I don't do much damage. I've been told forever that that is the way it is supposed to be, but that i'm to team up with peope and act as support. So now if I fulfill THAT role, I get nothing?
Can you please explain what my role is to be?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So if you're on a kill X mission and you're 200 feet away from an enemy that somebody on your team has defeated, you don't get credit?
[/ QUOTE ]
No - that isn't what I said. As long as either YOU or YOUR teammate is within 200 ft., you'll get credit for the defeat.
[/ QUOTE ]
But that is what you said. You made no such distinction in your original post:
[ QUOTE ]
If a player is in a zone, did NO damage in a combat and has dead for more than a minute, he receives no XP. If a player is more than 300 ft. away (an increase of 100 ft.) from the mob when its defeated and did NO damage, he receives no XP. Otherwise, the player receives his full share of XP.
[/ QUOTE ]
The implication is that if you do no damage, or are too far away, you get nothing. If that's not what you mean, than you should be more clear about it.
Yes, he DID make a distinction.
[ QUOTE ]
Now, let me clarify the situation with Badges and Defeat tasks. As long as you or any of your teammates are within 200 ft. of the defeated mob, EVERYONE on the team gets credit. This is not a change in Issue 4; this is the way that it currently works.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is from his original post and that person simply didn't understand it.
Mentor, you'll just need to stay within 300 ft of your teammates now. As long as you near the killers, you'll get their kill xp. If you truly are support, you should be near the team anyway, so it's not a change in your tactics.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So if you're on a kill X mission and you're 200 feet away from an enemy that somebody on your team has defeated, you don't get credit?
[/ QUOTE ]
No - that isn't what I said. As long as either YOU or YOUR teammate is within 200 ft., you'll get credit for the defeat.
[/ QUOTE ]
I believe in this comment, States is referring to badge credit or credit for kill missions, not XP.
[ QUOTE ]
But that is what you said. You made no such distinction in your original post:
[ QUOTE ]
If a player is in a zone, did NO damage in a combat and has dead for more than a minute, he receives no XP. If a player is more than 300 ft. away (an increase of 100 ft.) from the mob when its defeated and did NO damage, he receives no XP. Otherwise, the player receives his full share of XP.
[/ QUOTE ]
The implication is that if you do no damage, or are too far away, you get nothing. If that's not what you mean, than you should be more clear about it.
[/ QUOTE ]
That quote says that you don't get XP if you don't meet the requirements.
One quote says you don't get XP if you don't meet the requirements; the other says you DO get credit on a kill mission if you don't meet the requirements, but one of your teammates does. No inconsistency.
[ QUOTE ]
Mentor, you'll just need to stay within 300 ft of your teammates now. As long as you near the killers, you'll get their kill xp. If you truly are support, you should be near the team anyway, so it's not a change in your tactics.
[/ QUOTE ]
Minor point: You have to stay within 300ft of the mobs, not 300ft of your teammates.
Now that's just stupid.
LordArkaine the more posts of yours I read, the more its made apparent to me that your views have little to no bearing on what the majority of MMO players believe, and for that I am rather grateful.
Your idea of what constitutes powerlevelling makes little to no sense at all. According to you, if a character is not within some sort of relative proximity to a fight, then they are gaining XP by doing nothing, and therefore shouldnt be entitled to any XP. Sorry, but I find this rather ludicrous. If a group splits up to hunt, for whatever reason, be it to complete a Defeat XXX mission, or just to optimise their XP, then they should be able to, and every member of the team should be rewarded for it. If all members of the team are hunting, and actively participating to attain the teams goal, then they deserve to be rewarded for it, theyre all taking risks to some degree. There have been plenty of scenarios that have been given where its been shown team mates who are actively participating in fights, can be doing no damage, and get outside the XP range whilst DOING their JOB. For example (yet again):
An Emp or FF Defender/Controller who is using superspeed to travel between two subgroups of the same team 1200 apart. It takes twelve seconds to travel that distance with SS (possibly longer if the terrain is not flat), and for six of those seconds the Def/Con is in the XP no-mans-land. These support characters are doing their job, and doing it extremely well, but they are being penalised for being efficient. They are not lagging behind, they are not training or shopping, they are doing exactly what they are supposed to do. From what I can gather from your posts though, they arent contributing directly to either fight during this six-second gap, so they arent deserving of any reward.
And then there is this example:
There is a group of three, two of them are in the red zone of a map, and the other is in the orange zone. These two groups are far enough away to be out of each others XP range. The guy by himself is fighting, and earning XP for his kills only. On the other subgroup one guy is fighting, but the other player is doing nothing, hes just following along far enough away to be out of harms way, but not contributing in any other way. After a while, all three join up, and the two who were fighting continue to defeat mobs, while the other guy does nothing except stay within range to get XP. Hes not contributing a thing, but still getting full credit for it. How is this XP range idea stopping him from leeching? Its not, so its a flawed design. Now granted, again from reading your posts, I would suspect you would consider the guy doing nothing a mooch and powerlevelling, but he is getting rewarded for doing nothing and still playing within the confines of the system.
And then there is this example from a Sky Raider Respec trial that I did with some friends:
There were three of us: an AR/Dev Blaster (me), a Fire/Fire Blaster, and an Emp/Dark Defender. The Fire Blaster, and Emp Defender would hang back in a designated safe spot, and I would go ahead cloaked. I would then snipe, and slug an engineer defeating it, and we would time it so that as the slug fired the Defender would TP me back to the group. Teleporters would then TP to us, allowing us to finish them off before the skiffs, and others arrived. This broke up the groups enough, that even with two squishies, the Defender could keep us alive. It was a great tactic to use, and it worked. The thing is, had the XP range been in effect the other two would never have gotten XP for the engineers I defeated, even though we were using extremely effective tactics. Not much of a net loss granted, but over the course of a Heros career these small losses here and there are going to add up to a very significant amount. One I find unacceptable considering what the XP range is being put in place to supposedly prevent.
[ QUOTE ]
As for my definition, I never gave one so stop assuming so much. I drew a direct comparison between standing a train and split killing. They are in essence the SAME.
[/ QUOTE ]
Whether youre meaning to do it or not, you are implying definitions of things. Standing at a train station being powerlevelled, and splitting a team up to maximise your XP may in essence be the SAME thing in your opinion, but they definitely are not in mine, or a good deal of others. I see a definite distinction between the two, and this XP range solution is not a good one. Which is why I just say no to it. Its crap, it should never go Live.
I'm curious, heres a scenerio that would likely come up post these changes. lets say my FF defender is running the Numina TF. its been a long grueling few hours, as the last missions invilve DE, we only have one person with Mez Protection, and the only healing we have is my char who dipped into the healing pool. we finally get to the end, fighting the big bad at the end, and i'm keeping bubbs up and healing as best as i can. now we all the heal other powers in the healing pool are almost point blank range, and i die after getting a heal off on the tank. now, theres no way i can rez, because Jurrisik(sp?) is well within footstomp range, no one has TP friend, so its either take a chance of going to the hospital, and hope to make it back in time for mission complete....oh wait, what if i make it back just to the door, not getting back in in time before mission complete? but wait, i havn't done any damg to the mob either....well, enough speculation, jurrisik goes down 2 mins after i've died(well before my bubbs on the others dissipate). do i at least get my Tf badge and defeat badge for the big scarry? or have i just wasted several hours of my time for nothing, not even the "yes, i put my time in to play this TF, and beat the monster too".
[ QUOTE ]
Tater Tots are overpowered. Hash Browns have less flavor and cost just as many calories. NERF TATER TOTS!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Correction: It's not Tater Tots that are overpowered, it's Tazer Tots -- the convenient side dish that's also a self-defense weapon.
"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tater Tots are overpowered. Hash Browns have less flavor and cost just as many calories. NERF TATER TOTS!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Correction: It's not Tater Tots that are overpowered, it's Tazer Tots -- the convenient side dish that's also a self-defense weapon.
[/ QUOTE ]
You lawyer types can be really annoying with your always getting people on technicalities and such. 
[ QUOTE ]
3. If you are killed (i.e. "defeated"), and have been dead for more than one minute, you will not get any XPs for the mob, regardless of your distance from it, UNLESS you did damage to it before you were defeated.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If a player is in a zone, did NO damage in a combat and has dead for more than a minute, he receives no XP. If a player is more than 300 ft. away (an increase of 100 ft.) from the mob when its defeated and did NO damage, he receives no XP. Otherwise, the player receives his full share of XP.
If players are on a mission map, they always receive their full shares. Theres no distance limitation. Teams can split up in maps players can be separated by elevators everyone receives their XP.
[/ QUOTE ] (bold from Statesman's post by me)
Does this mean a Kinetics defender who, say, Speed Boosts the entire team, lands a FS and maybe a Transfusion, gets caught in an AOE and faceplants in a battle with a Giant Monster or AV in a door mission gets xp when the Giant Monster or AV goes down 70 seconds later or not? Statesman's response looks clear, but then looks confusing.
"If players are on a mission map, they always receive their full shares."
--Okay, cool, mission map not a problem.
"Theres no distance limitation."
--Er... Does that mean the time limit still applies?
And what about the same scenario when fighting a Giant Monster in a Hazard Zone? Speed Boost, Fulcrum Shift, and Transfusion do not deal "damage", although Transfusion could be argued to cause "damage" due to doing END drain, so lets take that out of the picture.
Say the Kineticist uses Speed Boost and FS and then drops due to AOE. Not an unlikely scenario given a particularly aggresive Kinetic playstyle. Hopefully, there would be a rez from another Defender or Controller available, but if not, that Kineticist is going to stick around to see the outcome since there's virtually no way to make it back from a Hospital in time. Giant Monster goes down 70 seconds later. What then? 70 seconds later, the Speed Boost they used is still active on their team. It's a two minute buff.
Kung Ru - 50++ MA/Regen Scrapper
Kalleesta - 50 Necro/Dark MM
Hidden Justice - 44 Kin/Psy Defender
Altaholic
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3. If you are killed (i.e. "defeated"), and have been dead for more than one minute, you will not get any XPs for the mob, regardless of your distance from it, UNLESS you did damage to it before you were defeated.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If a player is in a zone, did NO damage in a combat and has dead for more than a minute, he receives no XP. If a player is more than 300 ft. away (an increase of 100 ft.) from the mob when its defeated and did NO damage, he receives no XP. Otherwise, the player receives his full share of XP.
If players are on a mission map, they always receive their full shares. Theres no distance limitation. Teams can split up in maps players can be separated by elevators everyone receives their XP.
[/ QUOTE ] (bold from Statesman's post by me)
Does this mean a Kinetics defender who, say, Speed Boosts the entire team, lands a FS and maybe a Transfusion, gets caught in an AOE and faceplants in a battle with a Giant Monster or AV in a door mission gets xp when the Giant Monster or AV goes down 70 seconds later or not? Statesman's response looks clear, but then looks confusing.
"If players are on a mission map, they always receive their full shares."
--Okay, cool, mission map not a problem.
"Theres no distance limitation."
--Er... Does that mean the time limit still applies?
And what about the same scenario when fighting a Giant Monster in a Hazard Zone? Speed Boost, Fulcrum Shift, and Transfusion do not deal "damage", although Transfusion could be argued to cause "damage" due to doing END drain, so lets take that out of the picture.
Say the Kineticist uses Speed Boost and FS and then drops due to AOE. Not an unlikely scenario given a particularly aggresive Kinetic playstyle. Hopefully, there would be a rez from another Defender or Controller available, but if not, that Kineticist is going to stick around to see the outcome since there's virtually no way to make it back from a Hospital in time. Giant Monster goes down 70 seconds later. What then? 70 seconds later, the Speed Boost they used is still active on their team. It's a two minute buff.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes the time limit on death appiles I have 4 post on this now I tested it two days ago and have not seen any changes posted by statesman. You have one minute even on a mission.
Like I said the controllers and defenders (support classes) always get the short end of the stick on stupid rules like this.
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
[ QUOTE ]
Does this mean a Kinetics defender who, say, Speed Boosts the entire team, lands a FS and maybe a Transfusion, gets caught in an AOE and faceplants in a battle with a Giant Monster or AV in a door mission gets xp when the Giant Monster or AV goes down 70 seconds later or not? Statesman's response looks clear, but then looks confusing.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmmm, so I see this happening...
Kin throws Speed Boost, FS, Transfusion, then drops due to AoE. At 55 seconds down, pops a rez, drops three seconds later but re-sets the shot clock. Rinse and repeat. The question is, how much does the XP from the AV/whatever counterbalance the debt?
Yes. Wolf missions are repeatable, which is why you're able to powerlevel off of them. But if you're unable to repeat the circumstance, it's nothing more than a nice gift. A donation of $100 dollars from your best friend isn't an annual income. It's simply a nice gift. As Cryptic proved with the free respecs and inspiration dropping, gifts are not against their ways. Repeatable missions or routines that are used for powerleveling are.