I've noticed that nobody really seems to like the death-timer, even though under the present rules it only applies in zones, not in missions. The biggest concern, if I'm assessing things correctly, is that in fighting giant monsters like Babbage or Kronos, the possibility that a person could be shorted XP on account of an expired death-timer is significant enough to discourage fighting such monsters if and when they appear. After all, why fight Babbage during the Synapse TF if you don't have to and if there's a chance you might not get XP for it anyway? Why fight Lusca if you might not get the XP for it?
SUGGESTION 1 -- Implement the death-timer as planned with one additional rule: an expired death-timer doesn't affect XP gained from a team's fighting Giant Monsters.
SUGGESTION 2 -- Do not implement the death-timer at all in Issue 4; instead implement a "death exemp" solution with Issue 5 in which, from now on, the normal XP dead heroes would receive goes toward debt instead (and when a dead hero's debt is gone, the hero receives no XP or influence, period).
Thoughts?
NewScrapper
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Pretty much stopped reading when I realized that you think I want this system in. This is the worst idea they've come up with in a long time. This system makes it easier for the PL crowd and makes everyone else suffer. I am COMPLETELY AGAINST THIS.
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Heh. Well, uh... good! 
Sorry, too much interweaving of the response threads for my sleep-deprived brain, I guess.
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LOL... I figured you were a little confused about my motivations. 
I've done that myself a few times. 
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Conceptually nothing. These changes have no effect on your personal xp gain. A lagger left behind would drain your experience exactly as much as it does currently on live. Sure, the total team xp is lower, but who cares if the guy who decided shopping was more important doesn't get any xp? You're still getting the same xp as you do on Live. A person sitting in a team not doing anything is ALWAYS a drain on team xp, regardless of whether or not they themselves get any xp by it.
So this has no effect on your experience gain, only on the people who fall behind.
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Actually I care, so there you go. We all have to buy and sell enhancements, and at some point we all have to AFK due to RL concerns, so it evens itself out. I dont consider these people a drain on team XP because theyre getting it. The only time I care is if someone is truly leeching by not doing anything, and who conveniently unidles just long enough not to get auto-logged. Those players are easy to deal with though, you just boot them.
I dont need some arbitrary piece of code to tell me when a team-mate is mooching thanks, Im quite capable of working that out for myself. Im also glad that of all the teams Ive been on in CoH, Ive never once ran into this selfish attitude.
This is still a bad work around, so it needs to be scrapped completely.
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I've noticed that nobody really seems to like the death-timer, even though under the present rules it only applies in zones, not in missions. The biggest concern, if I'm assessing things correctly, is that in fighting giant monsters like Babbage or Kronos, the possibility that a person could be shorted XP on account of an expired death-timer is significant enough to discourage fighting such monsters if and when they appear. After all, why fight Babbage during the Synapse TF if you don't have to and if there's a chance you might not get XP for it anyway? Why fight Lusca if you might not get the XP for it?
SUGGESTION 1 -- Implement the death-timer as planned with one additional rule: an expired death-timer doesn't affect XP gained from a team's fighting Giant Monsters.
SUGGESTION 2 -- Do not implement the death-timer at all in Issue 4; instead implement a "death exemp" solution with Issue 5 in which, from now on, the normal XP dead heroes would receive goes toward debt instead (and when a dead hero's debt is gone, the hero receives no XP or influence, period).
Thoughts?
NewScrapper
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I like. Or they could make the death timer something like 10 minutes. And if you are in the zone, even if you have died and rezed, and you do damge, you get xp... that would solve the TF monsters. The 10 minutes should be combined with the debt thing too. That way you couldn't work off all of your debt.
One question I have about these new improved rules which now only affect street fighting.
If you die in a mission do you still get xp? As often you can't rez due to mobs being on top of you and the group is trying to clear them so you can rez.
Thank you for listening to our complaints. This change is a bit more reasonable. However, I still do not like the "death tax" and feel this is a poor band aid to the Power Leveling issue. I doubt it will have any impact on PLers.
I would still prefer the devs use their resources on other aspects of the game. This change as it stands tells me that the devs don't understand how PLing works. That's why this change offends me. It offends me that the devs are not dealing with the cause, they are just fixing one symptom and penalizing the vast majority with a band aid we don't care for.
If we find a free loader in a team, we kick them. That's the ultimate anti-cheating in a team tool around. I don't need the devs to decide for me who does or does not get xp. 
Not just that, if that player is ever seen again, people who saw that will point out that person is a cheater and they will be dealt with! Try joinig a team when people your level think of you as a cheater or free loader!
PLing exists because there is no incentive not to. Lack of good low level game content and goodies to help you in the game later are the reason. Some ATs such as controllers at low level have a lot of problems because they can't clear missions at a reasonable rate. Running around HUGE zones like the hollows without movement powers is a real pain.
That's why I think striga is a good anti-Powerleveling zone. Lots of goodies there to help you later. Sure you can skip it but someone who goes through there is better off.
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
I still think at this point any anti-PL code that goads people to not only evade it but to take advantage of it would be sorta silly to implement.
Scrap it and start over. PLing is a poison, but this antidote is worse than the poison is.
Xtreme,
I'm working under the assumption that if you are teaming in an instanced mission (i.e., any mission, trial subtask, or TF subtask requiring you to either enter a building/cave/etc. or take the train to an exclusive outdoor map), there is absolutely no difference between how things will work in Issue 4 and how things already work in Issue 3.
(Hopefully, Statesman or some other knowledgable soul will jump in and tell me if I'm wrong.)
NewScrapper
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Holy cry fest. You suckers really don't have any idea how good you've got it, do you. A few hours of debt to work off? Having to stick together as a team when you're hunting? Pff, that's easy stuff. Get over it.
Back in my old NWN's days, if you died at high levels you would lose MONTHS of experience in one fell swoop. And if no one was there to drag your butt to a priest, you might even STAY dead. Grow up, jeeze!
These changes are aimed at eliminating the kind of players they don't want in their game. It IS their game, after all. We pay to play. Don't like it, find something else. I know of plenty more MMOs that're nothing but twinkfest XP grinds. How boring.
If you quit cuz this beautiful responsive game's "broken", joke's on you. I dare ya to find something as vast that's anywhere near as captivating.
If I were States, I'd take all these people who threaten to quit over stupid stuff seriously. And just ban their accounts.
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Ban me who cares; I played many MMO's and I can go back this game is not so great that it makes all pale in comparison. Hell this is just a game I picked up to hold me over till my next game comes out anyways it has been fun but it is missing to many things that has not kept my eye from wondering.
So go ahead states ban my account come on do like the poster said we know nothing we are just a bunch of loser whiners anyways because we expect more.
I laugh in your general direction you are a funny littleman
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
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What about the group holds that do no damage whatsoever.
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Currently - stay within 300 ft.
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Not wanting to assume anything here, so .....
Is this an indicator you'll be modifying the way controllers and/or defenders can gain XP, Statesman?
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One question I have about these new improved rules which now only affect street fighting.
If you die in a mission do you still get xp? As often you can't rez due to mobs being on top of you and the group is trying to clear them so you can rez.
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xtreme the 1 minute applies to missions I tested it last night on the test server took a faceplant on purpose for it. I posted last night it is now buried in this mess hehe
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
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Ban me who cares; I played many MMO's and I can go back this game is not so great that it makes all pale in comparison.
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Um, yes it is!
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Ban me who cares; I played many MMO's and I can go back this game is not so great that it makes all pale in comparison.
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Um, yes it is!
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It is far from it; It has been fun but it is not the end all be all not even close. The best MMO was the early years of UO but that is way outdated graphics and engine but if you think it is so be it.
The only thing it has is it is super heroes and the travel powers are cool that does not make a game the end all be all
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
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Ban me who cares; I played many MMO's and I can go back this game is not so great that it makes all pale in comparison.
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Um, yes it is!
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It is far from it; It has been fun but it is not the end all be all not even close. The best MMO was the early years of UO but that is way outdated graphics and engine but if you think it is so be it.
The only thing it has is it is super heroes and the travel powers are cool that does not make a game the end all be all
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Um, yes it does!
But on a more serious note... since UO lost its way, and since it hasn't been improved in forever, City of Heroes is currently the be all end all winner. Even WoW is proving to have been mostly hype. It's nothing but one giant timesink. Yet City of Heroes remains doing very well in the market. WoW may look like it's doing better, but that's because it's NEWER. There have been an amazing number of returns to City of Heroes from that game. Everquest 2 can't even compare to either of them, which is why the ratings are terrible across the reviews. SWG and FFXI are simply too grindy to attract new players easily and the only people even playing them are the ones who have already dedicated hours to them. Boy, are they wishing they had their time back.
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Are you completely daft?
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Would I be off-base if I said I was detecting a bit of hostility here?
(Daft like a FOX!)
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This is EXACTLY how it currently works on Live. Instead of throwing away the extra experience, they do give it to the person lagging behind, but it's not like YOU get it, even on Live. A person lagging behind is ALWAYS a drain on team experience. They are not helping AT ALL with the battle, but are still stealing a chunk of your experience.
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The XP is going somewhere, not being thrown away. Currently the pizza guy doesn't throw out the extra two slices of pizza--he lets you give them to your friend anyway, even though your friend isn't there at the moment. You honestly don't see a difference between XP going to waste and XP going to someone else?
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There IS an option if you want a smaller pie. GET A SMALLER TEAM!
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So, the only way to not let XP (or pizza) go to waste is to dump your friends if they're ever not with you. Great.
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But this is not discouraging teaming as so many have said because THE EXACT SAME THING happens on Live.
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On Live, the XP is going somewhere. Booting the teammate gives the rest of the team a greater share, but the mob will produce less total XP. You're being more productive by letting the missing teammate stay, even though your share of the reward is less. Additionally, there's an expectation that next time, when you're the one out-of-range, the other guy isn't going to boot YOU, and you'll make back what you lost by not booting him.
On Test, booting the teammate makes you MORE productive, in addition to giving you a greater share. And the other guy can't "pay you back" if you end up out-of-range.
Bottom line: On Live, there are several reasons not to boot somebody out-of-range. On Test, there are none.
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Meaning? THIS DOES NOT AFFECT YOU ONE LITTLE BIT IF YOU ARE HUNTING LIKE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE!
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Who the <bleep> decided this was the "proper" way to hunt? Your personal XP gain is indeed affected if you ever take a bio break, shop, or visit a contact, and your total XP output is affected if any of your teammate ever do these things. Are we intended to drop from the team every time we have to spend five minutes away from a fight for any reason?
I don't mean to be negative or stir up controversy, but I'm curious why the change is happening at all.
It's obvious these changes are directed at Powerleveling. Since PLing happens primarily in instanced missions, yet these changes aren't going to have any effect in these missions... then why implement them at all?
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Ban me who cares; I played many MMO's and I can go back this game is not so great that it makes all pale in comparison.
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Um, yes it is!
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It is far from it; It has been fun but it is not the end all be all not even close. The best MMO was the early years of UO but that is way outdated graphics and engine but if you think it is so be it.
The only thing it has is it is super heroes and the travel powers are cool that does not make a game the end all be all
[/ QUOTE ]
Um, yes it does!
But on a more serious note... since UO lost its way, and since it hasn't been improved in forever, City of Heroes is currently the be all end all winner. Even WoW is proving to have been mostly hype. It's nothing but one giant timesink. Yet City of Heroes remains doing very well in the market. WoW may look like it's doing better, but that's because it's NEWER. There have been an amazing number of returns to City of Heroes from that game. Everquest 2 can't even compare to either of them, which is why the ratings are terrible across the reviews. SWG and FFXI are simply too grindy to attract new players easily and the only people even playing them are the ones who have already dedicated hours to them. Boy, are they wishing they had their time back.
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Well wow has 5 times the amouunt or more people playing it over COH so some may disagree well about 500k to coh's peak of around 100k subs hum Time sink or not WOW is king of the hill. I had no desire to to it myself and I am not saying COH is all bad either it is a good solid game that is my view it is all subjective anways 
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
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Meaning? THIS DOES NOT AFFECT YOU ONE LITTLE BIT IF YOU ARE HUNTING LIKE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE!
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Who the <bleep> decided this was the "proper" way to hunt? Your personal XP gain is indeed affected if you ever take a bio break, shop, or visit a contact, and your total XP output is affected if any of your teammate ever do these things. Are we intended to drop from the team every time we have to spend five minutes away from a fight for any reason?
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You have to be the fifth moron to misinterpret that phrase. If you notice from the rest of my post, your interpretation would not fit. Let me clarify it in two-year old terminology.
This has no effect on you if you are just killing things like you are supposed to be doing. Not in a particular way, not in a certain fashion, not from some [censored] *********** hunter's manual, just KILLING THINGS IN GENERAL! If -you-, and only you not the lagger, are defeating enemies, then -you- will not be affected any different xp wise. The experience the lagger misses out on is not your problem. It would indeed be nice to simply give it out to the lagger, but it does NOT hamper, reduce, or destroy teaming in general. You're not losing out on anything. He is. But then, he's also not offering anything. So to him it's as if he's not even IN the team and is just flying from shop to shop. For you, it's as if he IS in the team and IS getting experience, even though he isn't. It's all calculated the same. Just because some xp is being wasted doesn't mean you suddenly have to revamp your teaming ways. It just means that the guy left behind is going to miss out on some experience that he'll immediately begin getting again once he's finally in range and actually contributing to the battle. If you do not kick people on Live, why in the hell would you kick them now? Just because THEY'RE not getting XP it is suddenly hurting YOUR XP gain? Hell no.
But like I said, it's been hyped. That drew the large crowds initially. Blizzard has more pocketing power. Doesn't make the game any better necessarily. Plus, it's still very new. Give it the time CoH has had and subscriptions will drop.
I'm one of those oddballs who's always been a little annoyed watching a level 5 sitting on a Tram, gaining levels. This will certainly put a small crimp in that... like making the level 5 /follow his PL'er.
Maybe it'll also cut down on the random number of lowbies asking me to be powerlevelled. I might help a guildie, who I've known for months, but certainly not some random joe who happens to be spamming for free experience.
The adjustment for death and damage dealt seem like a strange addition, but since the "death penalty" in this game is the lightest one I've ever been a part of, this doesn't bother me at all. Great - .01 is still Great. ... Just a tad more incentive to not die, IMO... or at least, not stay dead after a fight. /shrug
These changes have near-zero impact on me or my playstyle. When I DO chose to PL someone, I always have them with me and trying to help as much as they can.
For them to want to fix this after so long, I think someone found some sort of exploit that they've decided to patch up, and it's not specifically aimed at powerlevelling in general.
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You have to be the fifth moron to misinterpret that phrase. If you notice from the rest of my post, your interpretation would not fit. Let me clarify it in two-year old terminology.
This has no effect on you if you are just killing things like you are supposed to be doing. Not in a particular way, not in a certain fashion, not from some [censored] *********** hunter's manual, just KILLING THINGS IN GENERAL!
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Maybe you should switch to decaf.
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If -you-, and only you not the lagger, are defeating enemies, then -you- will not be affected any different xp wise.
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Uh....ok, yeah, I guess I agree with that. If I was the only person on the team who ever attacked anything, then I agree that my personal XP gain isn't affected.
You seem to be assuming that I don't care about my total XP production, though, and you're assuming that I never benefit when I'm the one who has to go sell (or run back from the hospital) while the team is hunting.
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The experience the lagger misses out on is not your problem.
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The experience I miss out when I'M the lagger IS, even if all I cared about was my personal XP gain.
This whole thing is like taking the Prisoner's Dilemma and removing the option to be nice. Before, you could get some personal gain by booting your teammate, but it was at the cost of hurting them, and as long as your teammate wasn't a total leech it wasn't worth it. Now the effect on your teammate is as though you had booted them, whether you wanted to or not. You can still choose to be nice or nasty, but the effect on your teammate is as though you'd chosen "nasty" either way.
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You're not losing out on anything. He is. But then, he's also not offering anything.
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He's offering the chance to not get YOURSELF booted when you're the one behind, later.
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Just because some xp is being wasted doesn't mean you suddenly have to revamp your teaming ways.
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If you don't like seeing things going to waste, it does.
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If you do not kick people on Live, why in the hell would you kick them now? Just because THEY'RE not getting XP it is suddenly hurting YOUR XP gain? Hell no.
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It's hurting my total XP production. It's also hurting my XP gain, but on Live this is countered by the fact that booting them would result in lower XP production, and what I lose by having them on the team I make up from the XP I get from their kills (whether they're with me or not).
Let me ask this question: With this XP range, if you go off to sell and your team leader asks "Why shouldn't I kick you?" what possible answer can you give?
Probably none. But then, why not just kick him then? The times your teammates go to sell, you'll be making an increased amount of experience. The times YOU go to sell is balanced out by this. So, if it's such a big deal to not waste xp, just kick the guy and reinvite him after. He can even send you a tell when he's finished. It's not an enormous inconvenience and you're actually getting more experience out of it, which you'll need when YOU go shopping. Still not a huge problem.
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Probably none. But then, why not just kick him then? The times your teammates go to sell, you'll be making an increased amount of experience. The times YOU go to sell is balanced out by this. So, if it's such a big deal to not waste xp, just kick the guy and reinvite him after. He can even send you a tell when he's finished. It's not an enormous inconvenience and you're actually getting more experience out of it, which you'll need when YOU go shopping. Still not a huge problem.
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I guess my problem with this is that it makes avoiding XP waste a potential micromanagement nightmare, and destroys team unity. If there were some way to automate the process...like a tool that would create a global chat channel for the team, put everyone on the team in the channel, put the channel text in the same window as team text for each player, and remove or add members to the team as they came into range...this would probably be acceptable.
I'll point out, though, that just splitting up XP for a kill among the people who qualify for it (with the corresponding smaller group bonus) would amount to the same thing--solo XP if you're alone, two-person-group XP if you're with one other person, etc. The only differences between an automated "drop and add while leaving or entering range" system and a split of the XP among people who qualify is that the latter works on Task Forces, provides better team communication, and allows for this silly "mentor out of range" trick that seems to be the only argument against it.
Thank you for these changes. This satisfies my concerns and let's us enjoy our game more.
Thank you, States. I can live with an XP range as long as it doesn't go on mission maps.
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Pretty much stopped reading when I realized that you think I want this system in. This is the worst idea they've come up with in a long time. This system makes it easier for the PL crowd and makes everyone else suffer. I am COMPLETELY AGAINST THIS.
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Heh. Well, uh... good!
Sorry, too much interweaving of the response threads for my sleep-deprived brain, I guess.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA