It's unfortunate your ramblings don't actually say anything meaningful about the topic. They are, at least, good for some entertainment. Saying you don't get many 51+ SOs you can use is nice and all, but it IS possible to get them, besides which I completely disagree with your description of how rare they are.
And saying "it doesn't matter if it's 6 or 60", well, that's got to be some kind of joke. There's a vast difference between an activity that requirs at maximum 8 people to accomplish (which is how the rest of the game works), as opposed to needing dozens of other heroes. It's not the same thing at all. Referring specifically to the respec trial, it's not all that hard to duo it, and some can even solo it.
[ QUOTE ]
Respec trial is the same thing as doing a raid. Whether it takes 60 or 6, it still requires other people to do it. PLus i do those missions all the time. I'm telling you set at invincible, w/ a 6 to 8 man team yeilds so little as far as lvl 51 enhances. After about 8 hours of play I get sometimes none, sometimes 1. BUt in the last week, i've gotten almost 1 hami origin per 1.5 hours of raiding. On the other hand, For the exact same amount of time spent doing my missions and hunting i got 1 per every 3.5 hours of playing.
I think it's clear what's more elusive right now. At least on my server....maybe others don't have the numbers to make it happen. Or they just can't work together well enough to get it to happen. Defeating evil isn't all about doing what you want. It's about fighting evil however it sprouts up. If hamidon rules your server cus you don't want to fight him.....U are the problem, not the enhancements.
[/ QUOTE ]
Respec trials give out a 53 enhancement at the end. (They're limited to accuracy, damage, end redux etc.)
My server, Triumph has many public raids. I have not joined in because being in a very different time-zone means that they may be raiding while I'm still sleeping/eating etc.
I am not the problem. I was led to believe that this MMO was not about scheduled raids, loot etc. For almost a year this MMO has been very casual-friendly. This current situation leads us down the path of more hardcore MMOs. A path that should not be taken and should hopefully be rectified soon.
[ QUOTE ]
Defeating evil isn't all about doing what you want. It's about fighting evil however it sprouts up.
[/ QUOTE ]
As you're passing through Atlas, do you stop every mugging you see?
As you fly over Kings Row, do you stop and investigate every green glow you spy atop a building?
In short - do you take your own advice and "fight evil however it sprouts up"?
I bet not. And why? Because it ain't fun and it ain't rewarding.
Perhaps you should get off your soapbox and go save granny again...
I seem to remember going through my coh strategy guide and the developers had planned many raid like events that required....more than 8 players.....read your guides.... That alone tells you that the 8 man mission thing wasn't goign to be the only thing int he game. Your pointing out that it's differnt is jsut that, it's different from the 8 man mission, but your roles your usefulness and the need for tactics still applies to the big raid. I know i log on to my server, they are raiding, simple as that. I mission and i get [censored] for enhances. I'm fine w/ you not wanting to compete in heavy weight competition. I'm sorry you feel wronged. I guess free content updates just isn't enough.
I'm sure they should make the game to suit you and not the other few thousand people not unhappy about the future update.
I'm sure we'd see more than the small number of disappointed people on the boards if it was that catastrophic of an event.
Strange, i get baqck form the girlfriends and what happens when i log on... a raid, just before bedtime....guess i'll put forth the effort to help finish it off for another enhancement for the day.
Keep typing, i'll keep taking those enhanements while you talk about fairness in a pen and paper based mmorpg.....u want fairness...go run track, or start a different char and prove your point.
Just give us the options of disabling HOs in arena fights, an option where they drop to an SO value of their primary. This way those who want to struggle hard to load up with HOs can fight with ohers who do the same, those who want to have PvP on a level playing field without having to grind through hami raids can.
Personaly I am not interested in the solo ranking system. Where I see the real fun is in an out-of-game organised team league. There may be different flavour leagues using different PvP options (HOs or no HOs, travel powers or no travel powers) so as long as we can change the options we can take part in the type of PvP we enjoy. Additionally, I can imagine that these leagues will take place on the test server. This way you can roll a pure PvP build without effecting your PvE build, as long as you keep one respec on your live server you can respec as many times as you like on test to tune your build, plus teams from all servers will be able to compete. And related to this thread, if you want to play in a HO league and a non HO league you can copy your character to the test server twice.
So, please give us the option of using HOs or not and everyone can be happy. Forcing everyone to compete in a HO rich environment just seems to me to be the devs way of giving 50s something to do, ie farm Hami. This is great for some people that strive to have the most powerfull character they can, and fair play to them, if they work hard then that should be their reward. But don't take the fun of pvp away from those that either don't enjoy raiding hami many times (I play COH for fun, but I have a lot of other fun things I like doing, I would prefer to quit COH and do other stuff than be forced to grind hami), or those who don't have time to raid hami often (I play from the UK, most open raids on my server are at 1-2am my time, I have to work during the day so I just can't go on many raids)
Most of this debate seems polorized between those that want HOs and those that want them removed from PvP. If Statesman had said there was an option to switch them off for PvP then this thread would be a tenth the size it is.
My vote goes to giving us the option to disable HOs in PvP.
Once again, you're missing the point.
8 mission Task Force, fine.
40+ raid, fine.
40+ raid just so you can keep up, not fine.
When they add another way to get HOs, you will not hear another word out of me.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm fine w/ you not wanting to compete in heavy weight competition.
[/ QUOTE ]
I want to compete, but if you have to repeatedly raid an encounter to be equal, then IMO that's borked and goes against the 'spirit' of the game.
You wanna put in a lot of hours in raiding to get HOs?
Hey, that's cool, good for you.
Some people don't want to raid, and would much rather earn HOs doing other activities.
[ QUOTE ]
Once again, you're missing the point.
8 mission Task Force, fine.
40+ raid, fine.
40+ raid just so you can keep up, not fine.
When they add another way to get HOs, you will not hear another word out of me.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm fine w/ you not wanting to compete in heavy weight competition.
[/ QUOTE ]
I want to compete, but if you have to repeatedly raid an encounter to be equal, then IMO that's borked and goes against the 'spirit' of the game.
You wanna put in a lot of hours in raiding to get HOs?
Hey, that's cool, good for you.
Some people don't want to raid, and would much rather earn HOs doing other activities.
[/ QUOTE ]
I hope CoH doesnt get murdered by its own developers much how SWG was murdered by SOE. It's not looking good...
designers, I just want to thank you. Thank you for completely disregarding anything resembling a level PvP playing field. Thank you for ensuring that CoH loses it's unique quality and is now just another loot based game like other crappy MMOs. And lastly, thank you ever so much for rewarding people who don't do anything other than play 8-12 hours a day with a distinct advantage over your other customers, who I might mention, pay the same monthly fee!
I had posted this in another thread, but i'll go ahead an re-post it here.
Correct me if Im wrong but, the last time I checked the game engine was based on dice rolls.. The higher the percentage of your power the more likely you are to hit/damage/resist/evade etc.
The Arena is a nice addition, but with all the Hamidon enhancement(HO) related posts in this forum very few get at the heart of the matter.
The truth is that fighting (read wining) in PVP( the Arena) or in PVE. Is not based on player hand/eye coordination or dexterity- two factors that are considered Elite skills to have in the real world or any FPS games such as Quake, Unreal, Half-Life etc.
This brings us to my point, anyone who wants to be considered an Elite player will obviously not slot their powers with Hamidon enhancements, as a matter of fact he/she will use DOs instead :P. Why you ask?, the answer is simple HOs boost the percentage of a power by such a huge factor that it automatically determines the victor of a match, barring server lag or the fact that your opponent who is slotted to the gills with HOs is mentally challenged. Again, thats because this is a game based upon a system that favors the individual with the highest percentages.
This is even more apparent when players choose to slot their toggle powers and not their passive powers, when the passive powers do not yield high enough percentages vs. that of the toggle powers, despite both powers being identical in function.
Since you cant change the game engine, why not simply have the number and type of enhancements listed along with player stats. This has been suggested numerous times before, but I feel that it needed to be reiterated. This way everyone is aware that the player with the highest ranking, has X amount of HOs, X amount of SOs etc. This would make for a much more engaging experience. Those of us seeking a challenge will step into the arena slotted with DOs and challenge those with SOs, or SOs vs. HOs, you know what your going up against so you know what to expect and can plan accordingly
and more importantly you know how much skill was used in defeating your opponent etc.
Nothing has happened that would keep me from participating in PvP (I doubt anything would), also nothing has happened that would make me stop playing my alts and continually farm one monster over and over repeatedly (nothing is going to make that happen, heh.)
I am not worried that the top rungs of the ladder would be dominated by a small group of hardcore players, that is already a foregone conclusion on any online game. The people willing to put in the huge amounts of time and do anything to win will win, it's the nature of the genre.
Now, this doesn't mean that PvP in general or the arena in particular can't be loads of fun, I'm quite certain it will be for many (if not most) people for at least a while.
What I am worried about is creating such an obvious line between the haves and havenots, something prevalent in lots of MMOGs but conspicuously absent so far from CoH. What I do fear this will lead to is loads of PvP fights ending in numerous complaints about who had the most HOs, demands of screenshots of enhancement pages, and whining from well known Hami raiders of "I would be higher on the ladder but everyone is afraid of fighting me."
Some complaining is bound to come with any PvP, okay, lots of complaining is bound to come with any PvP but the whole HO vs. SO situation seems like it's going to magnify it massively. I really don't want every friendly matchup to end with accusations that I only won because I had more HOs and I also don't want to turn down matches because I'm challenged by people that have twice as many HOs as I do and know I have no prayer against.
My solution is pretty simple, uses existing code, and should annoy everyone enough to probably be reasonable fair. Add a new merchant/contact like Ghost Falcon. He gives a mission to kill one Hamidon. After you finish the mission he'll sell you HOs. (I wish there was some easy way to make them "No-Drop" but this shouldn't be too big a deal living with them being tradable.) Make them alot more than SOs so they'll act as a nice money sink, but not insane amounts, that'll just cause farming again. (I'm thinking a couple of 100K each, maybe as much as a million).
This way every level 47-50 can be equalized pretty well, virtually all griefing of buds will stop, and you'll get something for defeating Hami without requiring endless farming.
Anyway, just a thought.
I dunno about you, but as a lover of strategy games, the hamidon is much more fun for me than playing alts, sweeping, or missions. Maybe its not everyones cup of tea, and heck, is basically yesterdays news (it has become so easy to do, even the mito clearing) but still - its some of the best CoH has to offer. at least before liberty spoonfed everyone a strategy to beat it.
Meh. My interest in PvP is dropping steadily. I've done a couple (as in actually 2) hami raids, one successful, one not. It wasn't my cup of tea. If hami is the what is necessary to excel in PvP - and it looks like that is the case - then I'll probably just PVE.
or you can choose your opponents carefully.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and trust me, there is nothing common or unheroic about taking down the hamidon.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, beating on a held foe that cannot retaliate and then squabbling over his remains is the heart of every good hero story.
[/ QUOTE ]
Funny, ain't that what Controllers do?...
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, it is. I am just trying to refute the claims that it is only through magnificent effort, skill and valour that the HOs are earned. It's just farming. A lot of farming.
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe its not everyones cup of tea
[/ QUOTE ]
I've never much enjoyed raids -- all those people make me feel less than important -- a source of a little more damage to be poured on. I do a raid once or twice and I don't want to go back.
I really like 4 - 6 man teams. PvE and PvP. This will get me to 50 quite handily.
But then I'm stuck - I'm not going to farm content I don't enjoy in a game - that's just a stupid waste of my free time.
Tying one whole large area of content (PvP) to another (Raid Farming) means your enjoyment in one suffers if you don't like the other.
So, even though large-team raiding has absolutly nothing to do with what I want from the arena (small-team matches), its still the largest deciding factor.
This isn't too bad an idea, but at 1 million I could only afford about 16 of these! And I don't think I'm going to be *that* flush with INF.
The only problem with the upcoming changes to Hami that seem to be in the works is that if they do change it to a single drop only, everyone that isn't greif-farming now or farming even two or three is going to require just that *much* more work to be "even" with some people.
And I'm betting that some combinations aren't very common.
Accuracy Debuff and END reducers? Maybe with a Recharge in there too?
Still here, even after all this time!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe its not everyones cup of tea
[/ QUOTE ]
I've never much enjoyed raids -- all those people make me feel less than important -- a source of a little more damage to be poured on. I do a raid once or twice and I don't want to go back.
I really like 4 - 6 man teams. PvE and PvP. This will get me to 50 quite handily.
But then I'm stuck - I'm not going to farm content I don't enjoy in a game - that's just a stupid waste of my free time.
Tying one whole large area of content (PvP) to another (Raid Farming) means your enjoyment in one suffers if you don't like the other.
So, even though large-team raiding has absolutly nothing to do with what I want from the arena (small-team matches), its still the largest deciding factor.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's why I've been suggesting "enhanced" enhancements for the 32+ level crowd. Double SOs and such. That way Hamis are neat, but not about four times or more effective than what you can buy.
Still here, even after all this time!
this post was so beautiful I had to quote it from the general discussion forum:
[ QUOTE ]
...CoH isn't that bad of course but I got this game because it WASN'T that bad, it was a breath of fresh air from the loot whores, crafting sinks, and uber leetness of "I have a +5 shiny sword and you don't!" That is very reason why i avoid WoW and EQ2 like the black death.
So when I find out that the 45+ game is EQ in tights with Hami raids nonstop for the best goodies, i'm more then a little pissed, before you even start taking PvP implications into consideration.
If you want that BS fine and dandy, but keep your phat lewtz out of coh and away from me. Down with loot in any form I say, it's corrupting what's a great game.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The supply of HOs in one of my toons (Ive left my other 'main' clear, to provide a non-HO opponent for people who dont have the opportunity to get them) is a result of nothing more or less than a lot of hard work, planning, and careful thought and effort on my part and the part of my Supergroup. To suggest that any success I should have is somehow lessened or tainted because I chose to work hard at being successful seems very strange to me.
[/ QUOTE ]
Think of it like this.
You and I are going to take our cars to the racetrack.
You work hard, 60 hours a week, you started your own business and are a self-made millionaire. This racing hobby is a passion, so you bought a Ferrari 360 Challenge, and you made mods on top of it to make it the best possible racecar you could want. You do deserve this because you worked for it. Kudos and hats off to you for such hard work.
I have got a Toyota Corolla because it is all I can afford.
I say, Dude, you've got a frickin Ferrari. Of course you're going to kick my [censored]. You say, "Friend, it is all about the sport of racing. It requires an excellent driver with good instincts and skills, it is very difficult to go through a course fast, and the most important element in the equation is the driver. So it is the best driver that wins."
Then we go out on the course and you kick my [censored].
Every time.
This is the same thing... you should NOT be denied your right to leverage your hard work. But just like with race cars, in order to have a competitive event you need a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. That is, your right to have your Ferrari and race it does not include forcing ME to race against YOU because I don't have the same level of equipment. Your reward should not be my punishment. That is, you kicking the crap out of me and being gleeful about it and then reflecting on your own "skill" from the results of the battle is great for you, but it makes me into a serf who is there to lose and give you a reward.
I do not want to fight you and your 40-50 hamidon enhancements because it is like racing my Toyota vs. your custom Ferrari. You can point out until the cows come home that you can make a mistake and go off the track, but we're not using the same equipment.
It's like a heavyweight taking on a middleweight.
It's like a pro hockey player taking on a kid in highschool.
Sure, there is always a chance the middleweight might get a lucky punch and get a knockout, or that the highschool kid might slip a goal in on the pro...
But there is a REASON why sports events sort out into classes: because when one side just has too much raw power there is no challenge. It is someone who is bigger, stronger, richer, rolling over someone weaker.
For you an your Hamidon enhancements: yes, use them, but use them in the "open class" where there are no restrictions. Those of us without, we want a closed class that will exclude you and your uber loot unless you want to set it aside and join us.
This is the way the world of competitive sporting events works. It is tried and true. It is there for a reason: if your sport is involving some kind of loot (which might be sheer muscle mass even), then you need to sort it out into loot classes for things to be competitive.
Bullies do find it fun to pick on weaker people, and there is always this aspect to games that make people want to cheat or find some kind of leverage so that they have the power to roll people over. It makes them feel good. But it's only fun for the team with the power. The situation will quickly boil down to some people playing not at all.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The supply of HOs in one of my toons (Ive left my other 'main' clear, to provide a non-HO opponent for people who dont have the opportunity to get them) is a result of nothing more or less than a lot of hard work, planning, and careful thought and effort on my part and the part of my Supergroup. To suggest that any success I should have is somehow lessened or tainted because I chose to work hard at being successful seems very strange to me.
[/ QUOTE ]
Think of it like this.
You and I are going to take our cars to the racetrack.
You work hard, 60 hours a week, you started your own business and are a self-made millionaire. This racing hobby is a passion, so you bought a Ferrari 360 Challenge, and you made mods on top of it to make it the best possible racecar you could want.
I have got a Toyota Corolla because it is all I can afford.
I say, Dude, you've got a frickin Ferrari. Of course you're going to kick my [censored]. You say, "Friend, it is all about the sport of racing. It requires an excellent driver with good instincts and skills, it is very difficult to go through a course fast, and the most important element in the equation is the driver. So it is the best driver that wins."
Then we go out on the course and you kick my [censored].
Every time.
This is the same thing... you should NOT be denied your right to leverage your hard work. But just like with race cars, in order to have a competitive event you need a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD.
I do not want to fight you and your 40-50 hamidon enhancements because it is like racing my Toyota vs. your custom Ferrari. You can point out until the cows come home that you can make a mistake and go off the track, but we're not using the same equipment.
It's like a heavyweight taking on a middleweight.
It's like a pro hockey player taking on a kid in highschool.
Sure, there is always a chance the middleweight might get a lucky punch and get a knockout, or that the highschool kid might slip a goal in on the pro...
But there is a REASON why sports events sort out into classes: because when one side just has too much raw power there is no challenge. It is someone who is bigger, stronger, richer, rolling over someone weaker.
For you an your Hamidon enhancements: yes, use them, but use them in the "open class" where there are no restrictions. Those of us without, we want a closed class that will exclude you and your uber loot unless you want to set it aside and join us.
This is the way the world of competitive sporting events works. It is tried and true. It is there for a reason: if your sport is involving some kind of loot (which might be sheer muscle mass even), then you need to sort it out into loot classes for things to be competitive.
Bullies do find it fun to pick on weaker people, and there is always this aspect to games that make people want to cheat or find some kind of leverage so that they have the power to roll people over. It makes them feel good. But it's only fun for the team with the power. The situation will quickly boil down to some people playing not at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
well spoken Wither, and a good light shone on the real motives behind those who want this inequality to continue.
[ QUOTE ]
this post was so beautiful I had to quote it from the general discussion forum:
[ QUOTE ]
...CoH isn't that bad of course but I got this game because it WASN'T that bad, it was a breath of fresh air from the loot whores, crafting sinks, and uber leetness of "I have a +5 shiny sword and you don't!" That is very reason why i avoid WoW and EQ2 like the black death.
So when I find out that the 45+ game is EQ in tights with Hami raids nonstop for the best goodies, i'm more then a little pissed, before you even start taking PvP implications into consideration.
If you want that BS fine and dandy, but keep your phat lewtz out of coh and away from me. Down with loot in any form I say, it's corrupting what's a great game.
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
well i think the post is garbage because idealistically i enjoy the stuff he doesn't. fact is he doesn't HAVE to be part of it. he can ignore it and just fight folks he knows arent Ham-hanced.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can't see the obvious advantages of having heavily slotted damage plus heavily slotted accuracy and heavily slotted END reducers? In *ONE* power?
[/ QUOTE ]
I can see what the advantage looks like on paper. But until it's live in it's final format, it's theory at best. Which means I expect the dev's to look at it when it's on test and make adjustments as needed prior to it going out to live.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not following you here. We can easily extrapolate exactly what effect this is going to have. We know that w/ 6 acc/dam HOs any offensive power can hit, or nearly hit, the damage cap, except for scrappers. We know that the accuracy bonus will be +300%. Do we really need to playtest that out to see it's effect?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll clarify it for you... what he is saying is that until we can actually GET OUR HANDS ON PVP, we cannot tell how it will work and if the numbers are the same for PvP as they are for PvE. More specifically, the exemplar feature. How EXACTLY are HO's going to be effected by being lowered to SO's... are the numbers going to add up to one SO, or are there going to be multiple aspects of the powers that are enhanced as though by an SO? Who knows? Statesman 
[/ QUOTE ]
Um, we know exactly what the difference is going to be. It'll be capped at an SO over level 22. So instead of +166% damage, +33% acc, we'll get +200% damage, +200% accuracy.
Of course the devs can change from what they currently plan. That's why we're talking this over now - to try to get the system that seems most fair tested at the start. Otherwise, we end up with the terribleness of:
1. Initial system unfair;
2. Ubernerfing of things that seem unfair, and often nothing happen to some unfair aspects;
3. Unanticipated consequences of the ubernerfing, involving even more nerfing and power adjustments;
4. Even more unanticipated consequences;
5. Rinse and repeat until something more evenhanded is implemented.
* * *
That is why "wait and see" is just pointless. It just delays things if there are reasons to change things before the initial test PvP come out. We know without much doubt what's going to happen with their current plan. You think it's OK? Great, let's discuss. You think it's not OK? Great, let's discuss. But there's no point in putting our heads in the sand.
[ QUOTE ]
And tahts where i have an issue w/ the complainers. U say one thing but are really complaining about another thing. THey say that it's unfair becuase not everyone can get em. They wanna say that it's not fair because there will be a ceiling in pvp where the non hami'fied players basically are [censored] out.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh my...in this thread there are actual posters who outlined that they don't care about HO's, just pitting HO's against SO's.
As well, there are posters who expressed that they feel HO's are "ph4t l3wt". But, if I'm reading your post correctly, you seem to be, not only grouping everyone together, but also dictating, without any personal knowlege of what's going on inside of each person's mind, what their "true intentions" are.
I'm am 98% sure that this is not your intention, I'm just trying to clarify for you that if this was your actual intention, then the, as you put it, "complainers" reserve the same right to group all the HO-users together as "l33t d00dz" who just want to "pwNX0rz evRy-1" in PvP with as many advantages in their favor.
But I know this is not true. In fact, YardApe has expressed exactly what I think the majority of the HO users feel. So please, offer the same kind of consideration before overgeneralizing.
[ QUOTE ]
But the only real way of making it all fair and balanced is to remove the whole enhancement system altogether. The person talked about loot. My point stuck straight to the point. If u get an enhancement at your lvl that other players can't get unless they participate it's loot.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not entirely true. Many posters have outlined other ways to create this balance between HO's and non HO's.
[ QUOTE ]
I swear , i'm not a rightwinger in any sense but complaining about the inequity produced by ho's makes me think the players complaining should form their own sorta ACLU. They could call it PCLU. I swear its as annoying to read these pointless complaints as it is seeing the ACLU fighting to change the word manhole cover to sewer hole cover, and mailman to mailperson.
[/ QUOTE ]
As you were able to clearly outline your points and list reasons for your thinking, I'm sure that you're a reasonable person. So I know you don't believe that everyone who doesn't see you way should just, "shut it."
But it sure does sound like it. Though I know you don't believe that, I'm sure you appreciate the fact that there are many other opinoins besides your own.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this post was so beautiful I had to quote it from the general discussion forum:
[ QUOTE ]
...CoH isn't that bad of course but I got this game because it WASN'T that bad, it was a breath of fresh air from the loot whores, crafting sinks, and uber leetness of "I have a +5 shiny sword and you don't!" That is very reason why i avoid WoW and EQ2 like the black death.
So when I find out that the 45+ game is EQ in tights with Hami raids nonstop for the best goodies, i'm more then a little pissed, before you even start taking PvP implications into consideration.
If you want that BS fine and dandy, but keep your phat lewtz out of coh and away from me. Down with loot in any form I say, it's corrupting what's a great game.
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
well i think the post is garbage because idealistically i enjoy the stuff he doesn't. fact is he doesn't HAVE to be part of it. he can ignore it and just fight folks he knows arent Ham-hanced.
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course you do. But unlike the numerous "I agree's" along with quotes, nobody's quoted your PoV in praise yet though.. (although I have this funny feeling that 'someone' will now that I've said that to you. 
) and just how are we supposed to know who is and isn't HO enhanced? Are you suggesting that something be implemented to make this distinction so we can have HO enhanced and non-HO enhanced pvp choices? If you are, it will be the first thing you've said today that will receive my full support! 
[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand all this anger and outrage at all
[/ QUOTE ]
It isn't directed at you. It isn't directed at the folks who enjoy this sort of play.
People are angry because they enjoy the game and they thought the game was trying to avoid some of the crud we see in other MMOs and now it *seems* to be turning into the same old grind they don't like.
The end game seems to be focused solely on one style of play. A style of play that has historically been difficult on players with odd schedules, short hours, small guilds, the wrong guild, the wrong build and so on. Remember, what works for one player may not work for the next - not all casual players are the same - we're just more likely to suffer if the game gives us very limited options.
I wouldn't mind doing this raid once. Maybe even 3 times. And yes, I can probably find the right sorts of time for it.
I don't want to enter the Arena and lose simply because I did it 3 times and my opponent did it 2 dozen times. There will always be other people with better schedules and more willingness to repeat content -- my skill at PvP and my build choices will mean little compared to that.
I think PvP should be about skill and build choices. The interest comes from seeing what we can do given the same sorts of tools.
If I want to keep up, I need to do that raid some more. But now I'm not doing it because I want to -- I do it because that's what it takes to compete. And that's when this turns into Farming. I really hate Farming.
Again, I wouldn't take anything here too personally - these boards don't tend to bring out the best in folks.